Grateful Dead

it is a bit over the top. Please chlll and read the topic header again. Thanks.

I find your "joke" about Catholic priest to be very sick and disgusting you think you know it all ? Well good for you, but i'd say you've some serious problems and I hope that whatever it is you believe in will help you with them.

Well, that guy has nothing to do with the devil, whatever your interpretation of that is. This a construct of the church to get you to hand over the dollars. You need an image, a hate figure to coerce other human beings into seeing things "your" way. What better way to terrorise and instill fear into people, especially children, than to put forth the concept of Hell. Gets them and their wallets back in the building. Same with this War On Terror; designate a villain and shove them down people's throats on a regular basis. Keeps them distracted from the truth. And yes, just like you don't have to go to church to be a Christian, you don't have to be a Christian to go to church and you don't have to be Anything to follow the real message of compassion and love for all. I think once you throw in your lot; once you "join" something or say you belong to a particular group, or call yourself a "something", then you've immediately placed limitations on your life, spiritual or material. I don't know why people insist on labeling. As you say, the core message and your actions are THE important thing, absolutely paramount. I believe that if you call yourself by a name you'd better live up to it. I don't understand this vague attachment to a religion. If you are going to follow something, follow it all the way, to the letter. As the Dalai Lama said, there are many followers of Buddhism but not many practitioners. The "Casual Buddhist" another classic invention of the lazy and insincere. And strange things certainly abound in Christianity. "So i was performing an exorcism on the boy, when the Devil made the very good point that, being a Catholic priest, i've probably been inside more children than he has. Touché Satan." Stick to the message folks, not the corporate companies that spout it.

I agree....he wouldn't be hangin' out wif the tele-evangelist types either, and you don't have to go to "church" to be a Christian (even though I do, sometimes daily).....

Ask the Devil. Some guy in Medford today stabbed his wife and four children to death then set the house on fire andf tried to kill himself, he's in the hospital in stable condition. Jesus never had much fondness for the "religion" he witnessed, he was morer apt to be found on a mountain teaching and healing in a very non-religious way. I believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and I will warn you that if you become a Christian you will have to deal with some very strange things, but there is also a lot of beauty and peace to be found, even if you don't go to church.

I think it can boil down to ...Religion doesn't corrupt people, people corrupt religion....they twist it to their own needs and ends.......

As i look around me everyday; my own community and the world at large, traveling in space and our own mental projections of "reality", i consistently wonder one thing: should not Religion carry a warning?In an age where natural plants are considered illegal and damaging to society (and i am talking NATURAL plants, put here by God, or whatever you believe in. Personally i DO believe there is a God, but not necessarily in the form we've come to understand and perpetuate), shouldn't we be concentrating on according that same silly application to Religion too? Don't get me wrong, i would rather everything was open and free but if one is to be restricted, how about applying it to something that has harmed many more people all throughout time? I am with the Dalai Lama in a way; it is not Religion itself that is harmful, but some of the people who practice it. There are an incredible amount of human beings who follow their own Religion, in a peaceful, ecumenical manner, excluding no one, hurting no one; all embracing and judging not a soul. But then a huge amount of people have also used psychedelics and natural entheogenic remedies and have behaved the same. The minority ruining it for the majority? Not in Religion's case i feel. Here is where the comparison ends. Appalling abuse and injustice has been done in the name of Religion, stretching back centuries. Even well-meaning missionaries have made a contribution by raping the local culture and their beliefs; food, water, education and clothing with strings attached. Animist or doctored bible? Who's to say what's right and suits the inhabitants' spiritual needs? And this does apply to all Religions too; ever since 9/11 Islam is the big demon in public consciousness. What about Christianity? George Bush had the nerve to sign off his public addresses during this time (when he bothered to) with the words "God Bless America". Why is this acceptable? Since when did ANY God believe in greed, power, exhortation and torture? How DARE you use God's name to advocate and demand vengeance, brutality, rape and subjugation? Centuries ago, Islam had much in common with Christianity; they exchanged lots of spiritual ideas and felt a close kinship. Middle Eastern scholars were far more advanced in astronomy, mathematics and philosophy and the texts are there to prove it. And let us not forget the recent cover-up and just plain DISGRACEFUL behaviour of the Vatican regarding the abuse of children. Anyone, with any hint of humanity, compassion and sincerity; an understanding of the texts they so smugly quote, that they are ALL too happy to remind us of, would fall to the floor in shame; would cough up their guts and intestines with absolute horror and demand the most vivid, piercing investigation and would loudly decry and INSIST on a sharp and total JUSTICE. Certain people love to tell you that it was different back then, especially in the UK/Ireland; it was a time when we didn't know how to handle such a thing. Oh, well, that's okay then. BULLSHIT. You chose not to on purpose. Society wasn't retarded in the '50's. You knew about justice for murderers and homosexuals but a scandal in the Church? Perish the thought.... With the disproportionate amount of sickening wealth that the Vatican owns, i guess those law suits and loss of insurance polices overweighs any moral judgment. Religion and true Spirituality has been corrupted. Sometimes out of well-intention to be fair; the fact that the words "spirituality" and "spirit" have been reduced to either bible-bashing, apocalyptic money-hungry loons or worse still, the dreadful "New Age" movement has distorted such a fundamental part of our very being is devastating. Again, i understand that buying a few crystals or owning a Dream Catcher or listening to whale song CDs is not necessarily harmful, but it does twist the sheer magnitude and transcendental power that the true Soul and the Spirit contains. Attaining awareness and enlightenment IS scary; it should be. Their are many realms we still do not fully understand. We have encased ourselves in a protective layer of transparent beliefs that allows us to get away with anything our materialistic heart desires. We have an excuse for any behaviour. I realise that some people are trying hard and that we ARE only human beings with many frailties and faults. But i'm dismayed and disillusioned when "dipping our toes" or reciting a quick prayer is considered as spiritual understanding. I do not mean this as facetious in ANY way, but truly, from the bottom of our hearts, would anyone really disagree that less time spent kneeling and praying, and more time spent volunteering in soup kitchens, in impoverished countries around the globe, in homeless shelters, in AIDS clinics would be of far more benefit to our fellow brothers and sisters? I mean if its talking the talking time, shouldn't there be some walking involved? Couldn't the Vatican, Islamic institutions of power, Buddhist temples and the like use some of that money to actually invest in humanity? Do they REALLY need such an accumulation of wealth? And lastly, i am NOT mocking ANYONE who has prayed or turned to God or the Church or wherever and whomever in their desperate times of need; some of us should be so lucky that we haven't lost loved ones to violence and abuse. My respect and compassion is always with you. But don't we have the duty to teach and instruct our relatives and the next generation of fellow beings about the REAL meaning of Spirit? In case we do them a disservice that causes more harm than good? We are all one and have wisdom to share; Hinduism, Sikhism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Methodist, Baptist, Mormons and more. (Not you Scientology or Soka Gakai; you are NOT religions or in any way Spiritual. You are manipulative idiots). I guess it's that dreadful need to "fit in"; something we the ability to do naturally yet we've lost over time. Once you align yourself with any "group" it will inevitably create a divide. There's so much common ground yet we can't help ourselves. That's just what it seems it breed. We don't HAVE to join a particular "society" or Religion; we can just do good. We don't have to pay for it, we don't have to fear. We don't have to throw in our lot because of outside pressure or conformity. We can just do good. We can look after others that are less fortunate. We can volunteer to help. We don't need a label. Amount of destruction caused by Psychedelics or organised Religion? You decide.

Small wheel turn by fire and rod: big wheel turn by the grace of god. Ev "ry time that wheel turns "round. bound to cover just a little more ground. :)

that comic spinkercity......'at's what I meant...(~};=

talk about cosmic synchronicity! well done!