Grateful Dead

I understand whats going with the mp3s. I also agree with the comments people have maid saying that of course we are going to download the tracks if they are mp3s. At the same time I dont know why David L and Rhino would be concerned about people downloading free mp3s. Its not like the next time rhino releases a GD set im not going to buy it because ive recently downloaded a bunch of random tunes from the tapers section. What im saying is that im a dead head and i love the dead im going to buy every new release rhino can come up with. I bought cow palace when it was released and was imediately tryng to find out when the next release would be out so i could ad to my collection. I like getting tunes from tapers section for historical value but I use my dicks picks for the majority of my listening. Anyway I cant wait to get the vault release and am looking foreward to the "new"stuff rhino has on the horizon. DeadHead85

Hey kids, sometimes you gotta suck it up and take what you're given. 1. Find the speaker outs on your mac/pc/laptop. 2. Get yourself a 1/8th inch -> RCA cord. Should be no more than 5 bucks at Radio Shack or whatever. 3. Hook yr 'puter into yr stereo. 4. Press 'record' on yr tape deck. 5. Stream away. 6. Listen and dig.

Hey now,6-11-69 does not exist in the vault, what a drag. I got that confirmation from Dick years ago. The entire run of shows with the "Bobby Ace and the Cards from the Bottom of the Deck" billing (or something similar), from 69 and 70 (listed in Dead Base), is not in the vault. 6-11-69 is about as close to a Holy Grail as I can imagine... Eric

In error I posted this at the end of last weeks stuff .. here it is again... You can snag all the streams here using WM Recorder to grab the streams as .ASF files. These files play ok on the desktop "as is" anytime you want. If you need them in MP3 for your iPod you can use FOOBAR2000 to convert the ASF files to MP3. If you need it on CD for your car you can use BurnAtOnce. All these WinPC software packages are obtained easily online and are free or inexpensive shareware. Before everyone dumps all over me for the conversion from one lossy format to another lossy format (ASF to MP3), if the name of the game is solely to grab the music for playback later, this approach works fairly well albeit the audio quality is lower than before. If you are listening to it in your car you probably wont notice the difference anyway.

Yes folks, it was me....Every Monday I would use my Firefox plugin DownTHEMall and steal these "STREAMING ONLY MP3's"......I would then write to DL and tell him thanks every week for letting me download these "STREAMING ONLY MP3's" and give him suggestions for future Taper's Section...Opps!!!!!! Sorry everyone for being on of "The Few" who runied it for the rest of us...... But Rhino assures us that projects are in the works!!! Im am eagerly anticipating the next Dead release from Rhino scheduled for 2011 and is the SUPER RARE 5-8-77....WOW!!!!!!!! I can't wait!!!!!!!!! And just a few final notes 1-Stream works for me just fine, but I want MP3's for the trip to work on the train!! 2-I do not Trade MP3's 3-If you know what your doing you can download MP3's on Archive.org (message me) 4-David Lemieux did not write the statement presented to us today, it was written for him for sure.... Dead to the Core www.myspace.com/bongwizard

grab the stash while it's still there, only a matter of time before the gestapo comes knocking at their door. www.nugs.net

Quit your complaining!!!!! I can't believe how ungrateful some of you are, it makes me sick! Thanks for all music David!!!

SO my friends and I have this joke. It goes like this: When something really awful happens, we use humor to make it funny. So, lets say I plowed right into a nice shiny Lexus (I actually did in February, no one was hurt). I would then say, "Hey, guys, remember that time, everything was going great and then I plowed into that nice, shiny Lexus?" Friends, "Yeah, that was awesome." Everyone together, "Ahhhh, good times..." It always makes me feel better. That being said: Me: "Hey, DeadHeads, remember that time, everything was going great and they changed the Taper's Section to a streaming format instead of MP3's?" Deadheads: "Yeah, that was great!" Everyone, "Ahhhh, good times..." BTW: These streams only work on one of the three PC's I use. That is my main complaint. If the page is going to be here, can I at least listen? Thanks for your work, David, I really did enjoy listening while I could. Take care! | I'm just a, well...porpoise. |

I'll say it again, Downloading music that other people own is NOT your right, but was a temporary gift. Be thankful for that!!! Enjoy the music and how it makes you feel when you listen to it, and always remember MEAN PEOPLE SUCK!!!!!

David, I'm sure that some of you knew that we were downloading. THANK YOU for letting it go on as long as it did. After ignoring MP-3's in favor of SHN/FLAC for so long, I bought an IPOD, After Buying my IPOD I went to Archive.org and downloaded the 147 shows I've been to, as well as some other favorites. I knew that this couldn't last forever. I liked getting the new things on mondays, Little reminders of what I was doing this week in history. any way, thanks again david

A lot of things are hard to believe lately. It is hard to believe that the powers that run this operation put .mp3's up on the Tapers Section without expecting anyone to download them. I am no computer genius, but even I know that .mp3's are there to be downloaded - if one wants to stream .mp3's, one uses the.m3u format instead - the same quality but no player needed (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here). It is hard to believe the "clumsy" way this was done - no reason given until now, and now that a reason has been given, it is, to say the very least, hard to believe. I personally find it hard to convince myself that the venerable Mr. Lemieux wrote that reason, but it does have his name at the bottom. How much work was required to convert (and replace) all 38 weeks worth of mp3's to streaming formats - it was not just last week's tunes that apperaed in streaming format - simultaneously all the previous weeks files changed. That being the case, there surely was ample time to forewarn us of the impending change. I get the impression that this has been handled in a manner verging on panic for some reason, but that reason is hard to fathom. Was it badly thought out from the start? Rhino must know how the Dead's fanbase sits - after all, they released enough GD material before they took charge of the vault to know how sales were on GD material. What precipitated this sudden turn of events is a mystery to me and probably will remain so. Who knows - I may have had a hand in this as I downloaded the files every Monday. I thought that was the idea. That said, I never considered that I had a right to acces the tunes - I was just grateful for what DL (& Rhino) were giving me. Even so, it hurt that it was taken away. It was more the manner in which it was done that the actual deed itself that hurt. Like most of the people who have posted here (so it seems) I have all the official releases including the Download Series. I love the music and expect to pay for it just like I have always done and like I will continue to do. It was nice to get the .mp3's with DL's insights into the vault (undoubtedly a labour of love for him). I can understand other poster's comments on this situation due to the manner in which it was done, but some of the posts were so vitriolic that they could only be described as shameful. It was also inexplicable that people attacked random targets such as Starbucks & David Gans (but he did intimate that he knew more than us without actually saying what). Please try and maintain a sense of perspective here - the .mp3's are gone, Rhino have handled it badly and the world continues to turn. I would love to have those .mp3's back, but if it is not to be then so be it. It would just be nice to know the reasons behind it all - are we owed that by Rhino? I feel that we are owed a believable expanation, but like the gift of the .mp3's, we do not have a right to it. I think that covers most of it. Now I await the next official release and hope that its a good 'un and comes soon. Simon [in Holland where we don't have Starbucks, just good coffee :-) - sorry, couldn't resist that one].

Point to a single place where someone asserts a "right" to own the mp3s. Nobody is claiming it is a right.

Then All the mean shit pointed at David Lemieux is just imagined? Go back and read all the Bullshit! MEAN PEOPLE SUCK

I don't feel entitled to anything but respect and honesty. I would never crash a gate. I don't even care that much about the downloads, though I will never bother to stream. I do care intensely about the Dead. As someone else here pointed out, they are long gone. This organization and web site have little to do with them. Even some of the remaining band members may not really know much about the "whole that was greater than the sum of the parts". Like in that Heinlein story "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" where the computer MycroftXXX develops a conciousness (called Mike) and the protagonist befriends it. Then later something goes wrong - most of the machine is still there, but his friend Mike is no longer inside of it, the soul has departed. Who could look at this situation, with any semblance of awareness, and not see the resonance with the download vs. streaming fiasco at Live Music Archive, which so sorely tested the trust between the Heads and the Band? To anyone who knew this history, this seemed in part an effort to heal that wound. "We are concerned about our property, so still won't let you just download whole soundboards. But we all acknowledge that this is a grey area in the GD 'ethic' since this technology never existed back in the day. So to show you that we still honor the compact between band and fans, here are some free jewels, tastefully chosen and intelligently presented." "OK, thanks. Wow, you really do care. And wow, this band really is singularly amazing. Now I remember why I almost dropped out of college and went to 150 shows. Can't wait to buy your next full show release..." Given all this, even if they think they have a point about the legalities and financial realities, how could they act so coldly? Answer - they are not the Grateful Dead. Just some entity with some continuity of machinery that "owns" the name. Far from percieving an excess of vitriol, I'm impressed with the kindness with which everyone here is willing to give "the DL" the benefit of the doubt. Who wants to believe that somebody who clearly loves the music we love could behave so poorly towards us? But he signed his name to it. He made his choice. Not even an apology, an acknowledgement that such an abrupt and unanounced change might have seemed capricious or rude or downright ungrateful. And Gans disappoints me. Apparently somewhat of an insider, in his smug, wisecracking comments he has shown zero sensitivity or understanding as to why some of us might have been upset by this behavior. One thing about the Dead I learned long ago, though, is that the best seats are out in the crowd, not backstage. For a while in the early 80s one of my buds was the band's local supplier of BMP* of which they had a "healthy" appetite. This opened up some access to sitting at the soundboard, etc. for some shows. But that scene was never as much fun as the one out on the floor. The vault is overrated. Right now it seems more like "the jail". Maybe the statue of liberty will burst a giant torch through the wall and liberate all of the skeletons suffering within. But in the meantime, a seeming infinity of wondrously great music is already here with us on the outside, free free free. Thought I'd check back here one more time, as I couldn't avoid the drama of seeing if they would ever offer an "official explanation". Now the suspense is over. Really no reason to ever return. David, I do sincerely apreciate all the incredible music and your lovely commentary up to this point. Maybe some time in the future you can collect these thoughts, insights and recollections in some form, with music embedded, that will be accessible and useful to us. Hope you keep your job even though many of us will not be checking back here on future mondays. Hope it was worth it to you. *Bolivian marching powder

CSMILLER is correct. No one is claiming any 'right' to have music - free or otherwise. It's about a pattern of disrespect, dishonesty and just general deceit on the part of Rhino, David L., David G. and GD Inc. ~ regarding Starbucks - whatever... ~ regarding Gans - he posted his statement first...after that, it (and he) was fair game... ...and lest we forget, prior to this whole fiasco, Mr. Gans had 'been working with these people at Rhino and the new DeadNet for several months...'

Who got the name GDLive.Com now ?

"Then All the mean shit pointed at David Lemieux is just imagined? Go back and read all the Bullshit!" Unkind statements don't amount to the assertion of a right and I'm not defending attacks on David Lemieux. I can't be certain, but I imagine that if David had his druthers you could still download the mp3s from this site. As many others have stated, this change was almost certainly not his doing. I'm just saying that, be it heated rhetoric or a personal attack, nobody as far as I can tell is saying they have a right to this music. People are just tired of being jerked around and disappointed, yet again, by those who claim to control the vault with the best interests of the music and its fans in mind. Their latest actions are contrary to that claim and smack of cynicism and disrespect.

Have fun figuring out the flow of this discussion. My messages (and others, I assume) are posting out of order.

I Don’t feel entitled to anything but honesty and respect. I don’t even really care about the downloads, though I will never bother to listen to the streams. I do care a lot about the Grateful Dead, however, and this is a sad reminder that they no longer exist, and the commercial entity that “owns” their name has little to do with them. Oh, much of the machinery remains the same, many of the individuals are still around, but the whole was much greater than the sum of the parts and the soul has departed. Like in that story by Heinlein “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress” where a computer, called MYCROFTXXX develops a consciousness, befriended by the protagonist and named Mike. Later something goes wrong and though most of the machinery still works, Mike is no longer in there, the soul has departed. Especially in the wake of the streaming vs. downloading fiasco on Live Music Archive – anyone with any awareness would see the resonance here and proceed with kindness and sensitivity. We can all admit that there was a grey area there, as this technology did not exist when those soundboards were first recorded and many were first traded. So this tapers section thing felt like an act of good faith. Oh well… Far from perceiving an excess of vitriol toward DL, I'm impressed with the kindness of spirit. Everyone here seems willing to give "the DL" the benefit of the doubt. Who wants to believe that somebody who clearly loves the music we love could behave so poorly towards us? But he signed his name to it. He made his choice. Not even an apology, an acknowledgement that such an abrupt and unannounced change might have seemed capricious or rude or downright ungrateful. And Gans disappoints me. Apparently somewhat of an insider, in his smug, wisecracking comments he has shown zero sensitivity or understanding as to why some of us might have been upset by this behavior. One thing about the Dead I learned long ago, though, is that the best seats are out in the crowd, not backstage. For a while in the early 80s one of my buds was the band's local supplier of BMP* of which they had a "healthy" appetite. This opened up some access to sitting at the soundboard, etc. for some shows. But that scene was never as much fun as the one out on the floor. The vault is overrated. Right now it seems more like "the jail". Maybe the statue of liberty will burst a giant torch through the wall and liberate all of the skeletons suffering within. But in the meantime, a seeming infinity of wondrously great music is already here with us on the outside, free free free. Thought I'd check back here one more time, as I couldn't avoid the drama of seeing if they would ever offer an "official explanation". Now the suspense is over. Really no reason to ever return. David, I do sincerely appreciate all the incredible music and your lovely commentary up to this point. Maybe some time in the future you can collect these thoughts, insights and recollections in some form, with music embedded, that will be accessible and useful to us. Hope you keep your job even though many of us will not be checking back here on future Mondays. Hope it was worth it to you. *Bolivian marching powder

"Point to a single place where someone asserts a "right" to own the mp3s. Nobody is claiming it is a right." I never suggested that anyone had asserted that that they had a "right to the own" mp3's, I merely said that we do not have a right to them. That said, a number of posts gave the distinct and implicit impression that a "right to have 'em" exists in the minds of some. Simon, grateful for what I've got.

Hey David L.Thank-Q for making the the tapers section folder in my I-Tunes one of the best spots of the 60 + gigs of live dead that I listen to from day to day. I wont soon forget the Cream Puff War/Viola Lee Blues(7/30/66) or you making sure that the Werewolves from 5/5/78 also made to the list, not to mention my first soundboard taste 05/15/1981. You rock, and I feel bad that any person would have to read through so much negative un-gratefulness after putting out so many gems (nuggets that just don't come around with such high quality from anywhere but the vault). Peace,Love and Massive JurassicBlueberries

My comment wasn't directed at you in particular. This board has message sequencing issues.

DrFunky said: "One thing about the Dead I learned long ago, though, is that the best seats are out in the crowd, not backstage." If, like me, he had endured days of bitter cold, driving rain and mud that made Woodstock look like a desert. as experienced at the legendary Bickershaw Festival (yep, Europe '72) he may have a different opinion on the best place to be. It was worth the suffering though! 35 years later, I'm still on the bus. Excuses for going off subject! Simon.

You are entitled to respect and honesty, DrFunky. We may not be entitled to a thorough explanation of what's gone on here, because some of it may be none of our business. I totally agree with you about the audience being a much better place to hang out than backstage. I learned that pretty early in he game myself. For what it's worth, I think this whole thing has been handled pretty badly, regardless of the reasons for it. GD Hour blog Station list

You are right that posts appear in a fairly random order - I have noticed it myself. For all I know you have replied to a post that hasn't actually been posted yet! Somewhere in this Interweb maze is a section for "concerns" or something like that. It should not be a big problem to get posts in the roughly right order - even allowing for "server-lag" (what do I know?) so the admin. of the board should be able to do something about it. I do not know how responsive they are to this kind of thing. I will try it and find out (or not). Simon

...head falling forward...eyelids extremely heavy... givashitometer barely reading above zero.... Oh, and I can't get the streaming things to work either, but whatever. It's a beautiful summer day. Think I'll go outside and play some Dead tunes on the guitar. Without performance clearances, either. I'm stickin' it to The Man! Buahahahahahahahaha!

This reminds me a lot of the current affair with the Iraqi war. If you think you deserve to have MP3s, then the other camp thinks you're whiny babies with a sense of entitlement while Bob, Bill, Phil, and Mickey go bankrupt....and if you think that Rhino gives a good god damn about anything other than the Dead's music helping them make money, you have been sold a faulty bill of goods. The passage at the top of the screen is no way was written by David. It is also a lie. We, the Dead's fans are being lied to by people that have no desire to show respect to you or the Dead's music. If there are some "very cool" projects in the pipeline, wouldn't it behoove the powers that be to get their act together in the past week and make a composite sketching of one of these projects instead of an obvious lie. LIE LIE LIE....that's all GDP seems to know how to do. It certainly isn't capitalising on the immense value of every note the GD played to it's many dedicated, loving and honest fans. Stop lying and start releasing records. Go, do it! Do it now!! Look, I have cash in my hands that I want to shove through the computer screen to you so that I can have audiophile quality Grateful Dead CD's. Why don't you release any of those? What, your mommy won't let you?? And David Gans, while I suspect that you might have at one point been a cool guy, your tone with people that want to respect you and shower you with accolades is reprehensible. Why not stay out of it? How about the next time someone assails your character, you take a deep breath, listen to some Shania Twain .shn's, and realise that it's only the internet. Our feelings are hurt and we are expressing those feelings, and you seized the moment and used it as an opportunity to put people down. I am so dissapointed in you, as I was a fan of you and your show and cite it as one of the reasons why I loved the Grateful Dead so much. I still respect and honour you, and hope that you are able to be guided by love and compassion instead of insecurity and fear. Thank you. Ed

yeah yeah. we know, and it's been reported on at every level. Real sorry it's so confusing, but there's not alot to be done about it. (now returning you to your regularly scheduled whatever it was you were doing)

maybe we could all pay a yearly fee to keep the music alive. I love the music. It's all about the music and the feeling we all get when we hear it. Like the morning dew from the rosemont horizon on st patrick's day in 94 when Jerry was wailing on the solo at the end and the green lights were shing down on him like a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. That's what it's all about. keep up the good work at perserving this timeless music so my grandchildren's grandchildren can hear it in a hundred years

and when you combine that bug with the double-and-triple-posting bug, things get quite lively. Let's just say we're painfully aware of it and the technical folks are investigating. To say nothing of tearing their hair; it's a very elusive bug, for whatever reason. Just wait, this response will appear three pages up...

"If you're going to parse this sad thrash to death, at least be accurate about it." Thanks for spitting at someone else who was trying to calm things down. Jace --- ethics is using free will to choose good over evil ---

> Thanks for spitting at someone else who was trying to calm things down. I didn't spit. I stand by my point: you mischaracterized my post. GD Hour blog Station list

"and when you combine that bug with the double-and-triple-posting bug, things get quite lively." Did it occur to you that my messages posted sequentially due to the "bug"? Yeah, I didn't think so, you snarky twit.

My GDM Marketing Opinion 1) Put free weekely Mp3 content up through Thankgiving of 2007, representing each week in GD history, and then offer a $5 monthly fee to subscribe for additional downloading services after that. 2) Get the band back together and tour more consistantly. >>Use us, don't abuse us and we'll market your products for you.>> - Well said, deadeasy

alright folks. it's a new week and a new series of posts and apparently the memory of No Personal Attacks was not remembered from last week's edition. I saw no 'snarky twit' in MaryE's post -that's my example here and this is my warning shot. Any future Personal Attacks will be removed with extreme prejudice.

bother to read her personal attack? Why single me out!?!!!!

Dang dude, what were you thinking? Or were you? Quick everyone. Go over to www.archive.org, scroll down all media types to grateful dead live music archive before they take those shows away too. Dave don't Knock my Dick in the dirt! I have purchased every available piece of media from you guys, and what, no trust? Okra out.

Im sure your explanation was well received and we thank you very much for keeping us updated. You probably at least tamed our many savage souls for the true bliss of what we truly love, the music. I would def. like to see DAVID have more part in the department of NEW RELEASES!! Whether its downloads (LOSSLESS), DAVE'S PICKS, or VAULT RELEASES!!! I WILL GLADLY PAY, WITH A SMILE!!!!!!

Let's see, the Grateful Dead's official website puts up MP3's and then realizes eight months later that people are downloading them? This after the Archive.org debacle from 2005? Uh, ok....

Yeah, so anyway, when're The Dead gonna tour again?

Ok, I admit it. I was a downloader. Like most folks I really enjoyed the convenience of using an ipod and listening in the car. Also, I am still using dial up so streaming is not really an option. Thanks for what I do have and as some have already suggested, mp3 is good but not great. I will always be willing to puchase the highest quality, best sounding music you put out. When this site first started putting music up I thought it was a great way to make a lot of people happy by releasing a few things that were from dubious sources and would never be considered for full release - if at all. Still, i'm glad to get what I can but maybe 2 or 3 nuggets a week would be a kind comprimise. Either way, let's get the vault open a little wider so I can work up my Christmas list. Thanks

Just wanna say THANKS to David L for all the great music!In all this that is happening I just think about what Jerry sang "Let there be songs to fill the air." Looking foward to next weeks music regardless.

I will just say that it is the generosity of the dead that make me keep coming back for more. I genuinely thought the Taper's Section was for the specific purpose of providing deadheads with rare and beautiful mp3 downloads. I own every commercially available Grateful Dead music product on the market and have it in both lp (where available) and CD format. I will continue to buy everything they put out on the spot the minute it is released. I also assumed that the limit of the quality at 192 kbps was to provide a teaser but not make one feel like they truly own a song. I do not consider that I own a song unless it is in lossless format. That is why I still purchase all of my music in record stores with the exception of this site right here. (Shame on you, Apple, for selling billions of songs at 128 kbps). The deadheads will not be in the market that much longer. My message is for the Grateful Dead and all other great rock bands to open their vaults now before it is too late. Why not become more aggressive with the Vault downloads? I loved the download series. How about one of those every month or so?

thanks again david,thanks for what you do! keep it up! I, like many, sat back and watched some pretty venonmous posts here in the last week. I, for one, will happily take what ever method of delivery you feel fits best! You are providing us a great service, I am always appreciative of what you do! thanks again, keep it up! m.s.

ok, i too was a downloader- but i feel no guilt for it. if no one running the show knew until recently about the downloading, the people running the forums (what are you currently listening to? what's in your mp3 player?) certainly did and mercifully weren't telling!!! if my downloading was a contributing factor, i will line up for my lashes with the wet noodle... or for streaming poor quality sound... but i can live with it. it isn't ideal- but, as willie nelson says, 'thankfully, i am not in charge' so, my new thing on mondays will be to tune in and enjoy while grading papers instead of tuning in, downloading, giggling like a little kid on her birthday, and loading up my mp3 player will new goodies to take to school to play for myself and all the impressionable young minds... in an ironic twist, our school has prohibited teachers from bringing in music (or film, etc) to use in the classroom for either academic or recreational purposes. the reason given is that the teacher and the school may be sued for copyright infringement (can you smell the disney attorneys in the air there???) and the school can't pay the fines (up to 10k)... so my plan was to continue my old plan: all dead, all day... and this decision to drop mp3s has NOT changed my plan at all (unless the suits come knocking on the door of 1607 looking to take me for all the $500 i'm worth...). although my other plans for an all sugar mag or all shakedown st cd will probably not pan out... i don't want to pour gas on the fire! anyway, david, you have been more than kind to me (and to the collective 'we') in your choices and in your generosity. i have no complaints, only compliments to you on your fine taste in music and your vast knowledge on the band. thanks for all if it. caroline

People keep alluding to this, and of course a vehement comment about the Starbucks release is what prompted David Gans's heated response last week... I think there are real reasons why the Starbucks release concerns many Dead Heads. They may not be fair reasons, but they're valid from a certain point of view, and I don't think they've been aired in a calm way yet (I might have missed a post, though). First, rightly or wrongly, I'd imagine that for a lot of us, Starbucks represents a certain kind of corporate, yuppie mentality--huge international chain, highly standardized product and merchandizing environment, etc. The opposite of what the Dead stood for in many of our imaginations. That's a romanticized image: the Dead have been a big (or at least mid-sized) business for a long time now. And a negative attitude toward Starbucks may be unfair. But still, there have to be at least a few unreconstructed hippies around the Dead organization who could tell you that the Starbucks alliance would cause a gut reaction in some fans. That gut reaction is not necessarily a reason for Rhino/GDP to refrain from putting out a Starbucks release, but it does, I think, explain at least some of the negative response to it on these boards. Especially combined with (and this is my second point) the fact that the new Starbucks release comes at a time when archival releases are few and far between. This is two best-ofs released in the last four years. Obviously, it took somebody some man-hours to put the new one together, and I imagine many fans wish those man-hours had been spent on a release that they could appreciate, instead. This combines with some frustration about Three From The Vault, which many found to be a less-than-overwhelming release, but which seems like it may have been easier to market to a mass audience than, say, the once-rumored Winterland '73 box would have been. In other words, there seems to be a perception, not entirely unjustified, that more effort right now is being put into trying to recruit new fans/customers than trying to please the faithful. (To be fair, the faithful can be very hard to please--we're loyal, but veeeery cantankerous, and often passionate rather than considered in our responses.) There's nothing, absolutely nothing, wrong with Rhino/GDP trying to enlarge the audience for Grateful Dead music. It's not like '87, when there was a delicate ecology to the scene that was thrown out of whack by the arrival of the "Touchheads" (then again, that's when I first got into the Dead, and here I am still, twenty years later). Now, it's just a question of how many people are going to buy each new vault release, and so it's truly the more the merrier. Right? Maybe. Again, I would never argue that Rhino/GDP should NOT try to increase their audience. But from the hardcore fan's perspective, there can certainly be a difference between a label that's dedicated to serving an existing, knowledgeable fanbase and one that's dedicated to appealing to as broad a market as possible. I'm a big Dylan collector, and I don't think I'm alone in feeling that the big problem with Columbia/Sony's approach to Dylan archival sets is that they're trying to appeal to a broad, uncommitted audience, rather than the real hardcore fans. It's no coincidence, I think, that Starbucks also released an exclusive Dylan album, Live At The Gaslight 1962--and Dylan collectors were wildly disappointed with this. What was on it was great, but it left off a good chunk of what's on the circulating Gaslight tape, maybe so as not to scare off casual purchasers with too many unfamiliar songs. Again, Columbia/Sony's Dylan archival releases always seem calculated to rope in as many casual fans as possible, rather than trying to get it right (if I may say so) for the hardcore fans. It's possible that some of us have reacted to the Starbuck's set, 3FTV, and the discontinuance of the DPs and Download Series as Rhino's steps in that direction, as trying to appeal to a broad but casual audience at the expense of the faithful. I take DL2's and everybody else's word for it that this is not the case--that it's just taking a while for Rhino to get all its cylinders firing, and that there will be lots of things to make us hardcore fans very happy (something that the Taper's Section mp3s were doing, incidentally--one reason why taking them away provoked such a reaction). I live in hope. But I just thought I'd point out that the reaction to the Starbucks set was not entirely paranoid or silly. Let's hope the Starbucks set creates thousands and thousands of new Dead fans, and that all of them are ready to make a big box o' '73 their next purchase.

Boycott Rhino, they own the rights to just about every '80's cartoon. Transformers, G.I Joe. They bought up the rights to the dead's treasure trove. They want to treat their consumer with contempt. So I'll treat them by being content to put my wallet back in my pocket. The new motto. So if it says Rhino on it........ Stick it back on the shelf!

tj crowley sometimes the best thing to do is just surrender (western man percieves this as a sign of weakness) to what is....so...with that mind set arranged...purchase stock in king rhino and then really smile.....the only thing that i am powerful over is my attitude and perception..when this comes from a loving and compassionate place, all is well in the universe. for those of you struggling with what to do on friday nites...6pm - midnite (e.s.t.) check out w e s s 90.3fm streaming (oh no! there's that word!!) www.esu.edu/wess 'six strings...more or Lesh' official grateful dead hour 10pm (e.s.t.). the show highlights the sounds (and vibes) of the 60's/70's w/ a splash of the 50's and todays sounds. voted best broadcast 11 years in a row

...it could have been worse. They could have put one unreleased track on it just to try to get the faithful to buy it. I hate it when record companies do that. I'm all for releasing the unreleased, but I've lost track of how many useless greatest-hits albums I've bought just for that one new track. The Dead usually aren't like that, thank God.

I'd like to send the folks who want to talk about the new release at Starbuck's over to the new topic for this discussion... http://www.dead.net/forum/eternally-grateful