I don’t dig Phish. Lord knows I’ve tried. Through the years I’ve had so many people attempt to convert me. I dutifully auditioned live CDs fanatical fans would pass to me. I checked out every studio album that came my way, wondering if this would be the Phish album that would have songs that actually resonated with me. I recall when one came out a number of years ago a Phish Head pal proclaimed it “Phish’s American Beauty.” Uh, no. I watched most of a live Phish DVD a while ago, wondering if perhaps the visual element would get me off. Nope. “But you gotta see a show, man!” No doubt. I’m still open to that. But at this point, I really have heard many hours of Phish and it just doesn’t do it for me. The songs don’t sing to my soul, and even though the musicianship is clearly amazing on a technical level, it doesn’t hit me emotionally.
I’ve been through similar scenes with other jam bands (and my friends who like ’em). I can at least understand why Phish appeals to people, but in the case of Widespread Panic I don’t have a clue. They sound completely ordinary to me. Again, I’ve given them multiple chances to show me something — live and studio CDs — but the song craft isn’t there for me, the guitar playing does not blow my mind, and they lack even that quirky dimension that Phish has (way too much of). I suppose I have to see them live, too. So, who’s got my 10th row-center miracle ticket for that show? ’Cause in this era, with ticket prices what they are, I ain’t spending my concert money on a headliner there’s a good chance I won’t enjoy.
But here’s the thing: I root for both of those bands, and really, just about all jam bands, because they are “fellow travelers.” No, not fellow communists, as that term was originally applied decades ago, but musicians out of the mainstream dedicated to playing improvisational music before spirited and adventure-seeking crowds. I like any crowd that will dance—sorry, just standing there doesn’t count; gotta shake it at least a little — and any band that will get people up and moving. To me, it’s the highest form of musical communion. The Grateful Dead completely spoiled me, because not only did they inspire you to dance, they had perhaps the greatest song catalog (originals and covers) of any band ever, so every part of your body-mind-spirit was engaged. At this point, I’ve learned to go to shows not expecting that sort of soul-elevating trifecta, so I am often pleasantly surprised when I get one or two, and if not for an entire evening, at least in spurts.
It’s not like I want or expect bands to sound at all like the Grateful Dead. Yes, I love Furthur—it’s those guys and those songs, brought into The Now. But, as I’ve noted before, Dark Star Orchestra, who sound more like the Dead than Furthur, don’t do it for me. Even so, I still want them to do well, because they’re fellow travelers fighting the good fight and providing a space for the people who like them to experience something soulful and true.
My favorite of the first wave of jam bands — moe.— doesn’t sound anything like the Grateful Dead. Nor does String Cheese Incident, who I’ve enjoyed intermittently through the years. SCI and moe. also have made studio albums I love: Untying the Not and Wormwood respectively, and have written many fine songs. A group that I’ve come to love the last few years who go to some similar musical places as the Grateful Dead but in a completely different way is Railroad Earth. Again, it’s good songs as vehicles for inspired jamming, but more from the bluegrass side. Yonder Mountain String Band is often lumped into the loose jamgrass category, too, but for whatever reason I have not gotten into them in the same way. But I root for them, too!
The other night I went to the Warfield Theatre in San Francisco to see the Tedeschi Trucks Band, and they totally knocked me out with their alternately tight and jammy rock, R&B and soul sound. The crowd was great — hanging on every wail from Derek Trucks’ slide, and movin’ to the big, big sound of a surprisingly flexible 11-piece band, with Derek’s wife, Susan Tedeschi, out front with gritty lead vocals that at times recalled Bonnie Raitt, Bonnie Bramlett and other belters. Opening for the TTB was the married duo Tim and Nicki Bluhm (he’s best known as leader of the Mother Hips and also toured with the Rhythm Devils last year), and they were definitely not a jam band. They played short, catchy, country-flavored original songs—just two voices and one acoustic guitar—but you could tell they were fellow travelers because you could hear their roots in folk and old-time music, feel that the characters in their songs were flesh and blood, and that as performers they were connecting with each other and the audience. It was real. They got a tremendous reception from a crowd that was there to rock—but also open to being moved.
When it comes down to it, I guess what I’m really looking for, whether it’s from so-called jam bands or a solo singer with one instrument, is some sort of connection. When you find it, you know it—you can’t miss it! And when you get it, you want more. So the search continues…
OK, jam fans — tell us who you like and why! (And yes, I will take recommendations for THE Phish or Widespread Panic disc or download I have to hear!)
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I agree
with all those who praise Trey's musicianship. How did folks like Oysterhead? (I don't know Les Claypool's work well, but I'm firmly in the camp of those who like him. The time he opened for Phil at the Greek I was in heaven. The audience was about half and half heaven and hell.:-) )
rambling thoughts on the topic
For me the whole jam band scene and jam band music has been a breath of fresh air that brought me renewed energy and joy after Jerry left us.
However none of these bands will to me ever equal the Good Old Grateful Dead. It’s like the Dead were this delicious new kind of stew with all these great ingredients thrown together. You have Stravinsky, Beethoven, John Cage, Ravi Shankar, Buddy Holly, Merle Haggard, Johnny Cash, bluegrass, The Anthology of American Folk Music, Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, Ramblin’ Jack Elliott, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Elvin Jones, Wes Montgomery, Chicago Blues, Texas Blues, honky tonk piano, drumming from around the world and more mixed together and out comes the Grateful Dead.
The newer jam bands coming out from the 80s on tasted this stew and loved it and made their own musical stews but they didn’t know the original ingredients as well as the Grateful Dead. They made their stews from the Grateful Dead stew, the Cream stew, the Allman Brothers stew and the Zappa stew so the stews were kind of second hand stews. Most of the jam bands weren’t brought up on jazz, Indian music, the blues, folk and classical, they were brought up on rock and roll. So they don’t have as deep an understanding of the roots that went into the original Grateful Dead, Cream, ABB and Zappa stews. They are removed from the soil of Americana in an increasingly urbanized, industrialized and technological society. The Grateful Dead have some type of connection to blue collar, working class America, which few if any of the newer jam bands have. The Dead have soul from this and also a deeper connection to African-American music than I see in any of the jam bands (Gov’t Mule being the exception).
What else. The Grateful Dead cover much of the gamut of emotions and human activities; joy, recklessness, dancing, love, deep thought, transcendence, spirituality, working your hands raw, and deep sorrow. It is a rare and beautiful bird that can sing all this. When I am hurting the Dead can help to comfort and heal. I just don’t get that from the other jam bands (except Kimock and Gov’t Mule). I can’t really imagine listening to Phish after the death of someone close to me but I do listen to the Dead. Also the Dead can break open the cosmic egg and open up the universe. To me the other jam bands can crack it open and give me a peak but they are not flying the cosmos of an uncharted universe like the Dead do when at their best. For many of us the Grateful Dead get very spiritual in a variety of ways, which I really don’t get from many of the other jam bands. Fun, yes but not often entering the realm of cosmic consciousness that the Dead may open one to. We all know how many Deadheads have explored a variety of religious experiences be it through psychedelics, meditation, yoga, tai chi, mountain climbing, running, hiking, reading, immersing oneself in the arts. We are seekers - Furthur. We and the band share this; we don’t play if conventional and safe.
Lastly what puts the Dead above all the other jam bands is having one incredible songwriting team (Garcia/Hunter) and a very good one as well (Weir/Barlow). Their songs have gone beyond the Deadhead world and are part of the mainstream conversation at times.
To me the jam bands can take me on some great adventures and peaks but they never reach the heights or the depths that come with the Grateful Dead.
I just can’t imagine any of these groups except Kimock bands taking me where the Allman Brothers and especially the Grateful Dead have.
So I guess I really didn’t say much about what jam bands I like and why, that will be later, just have to say the Dead are the best in the League.
If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite.
William Blake
I'm also a part of the
I'm also a part of the generation that got into the Dead in the early 90's. I had some absolutely amazing experiences, but I couldn't help but wonder what it would have been like to see the band in a really intimate venue back in their heyday. I started seeing Phish in '92 because I had so many people say that they were the new Grateful Dead. While the Dead they ain't, I did have some life changing experiences seeing them in tiny little venues and hanging out with the band after the shows in the parking lot (this was before there was a parking lot scene for Phish). It was really incredible to have that intimacy. While their music never resonated as deeply with me as the Dead's did, it was never the less an exciting thing to witness and be a part of. Phish was always a little too goofy for me. While I certainly had plenty of moments when their antics made me double over in laughter, I just couldn't take them as serious. My absolute favorite show was at a tiny theater in Bloomington, Indiana at which they did the vibration of life. It was one of the most serious moments at a Phish show that I ever witnessed. Yes, I was dosed to the gills, but it was truly a transcendent moment. The Louisville show that year was also fantastic. I haven't really gotten into too many of the other bands in the jam band scene, but I am glad I finally let myself got to a Dark Star Orchestra show. For me it's just about enjoying, celebrating, and dancing to music that is so important to me. They really do a fine job. I've also seen a dozen or so Further shows, and I absolutely love them. It's so good to see Phil and Bob out there living life and doing what they love. I hope I can still do it at their age!
One group that, to me, goes to similar spaces that the Grateful Dead did it is the Esbjorn Svensson Trio. They are a Swedish jazz trio that effectively combine electronics with the acoustic jazz tradition. I really can't speak highly enough about their ability to improvise, and they're not afraid to get spacey! Seeing them live was truly breathtaking. Sadly, they are no longer together after the untimely passing of Esbjorn. I can't recommend their music highly enough to anyone who enjoys music made for the moment. All of their records are great, but check out "Seven Days of Falling" and "Tuesday Wonderland" if you're interested. One other new band in Seattle has really knocked my socks off, too. They're called Trip the Light, and it seams that they can't play without a room full of people spontaneously getting to their feet to dance. Fantastic stuff!
I must jump aboard the 'Hal" train of thought
How do you read my mind, Hal?Be careful, it is a mess in here!
That post is just exactly perfect........;o}
The Truth is realized in an instant, the act is practiced step by step.
Oroboros
Thanks, you made my day.
Guess we just grok. This isn't the first or I am sure the last time this will happen. And the Dead knew all about Grok. Stranger In a Strange Land was big for them.
From Wikipedia
To grok ( /ˈɡrɒk/) is to intimately and completely share the same reality or line of thinking with another physical or conceptual entity. Author Robert A. Heinlein coined the term in his best-selling 1961 book Stranger in a Strange Land. In Heinlein's view, grokking is the intermingling of intelligence that necessarily affects both the observer and the observed. From the novel:
Grok means to understand so thoroughly that the observer becomes a part of the observed—to merge, blend, intermarry, lose identity in group experience. It means almost everything that we mean by religion, philosophy, and science—and it means as little to us (because of our Earthling assumptions) as color means to a blind man.
If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite.
William Blake
Phish is as intriguing as
Phish is as intriguing as those old mentos commercials. Sorry.
Hal knows it!
Just like Oroboros, I agree 100% with Hal R - he couldn't have put it better. The only so-called Jambands that I listen to are Kimock's various aggregations and the David Nelson Band (and the New Riders). I am aware that Blair finds Kimock just a bit too funky - I find his style(s) just perfect. As regards the generation gap, I feel that this is valid, but not in the sense of a jump from one generation to another - rather a gradual but continuous change over the years. One only has to listen to different era Dead to hear how they changed with time and the same applies to other long-lived bands and to the whole music scene in general.And don't forget: Be alert - this world needs lerts!
Jammin
Thanks to a David Grisman radio show decades ago, I got turned on to Oscar Peterson/Stan Getz, and some New Orleans All-Stars on the Mosaic label. Yeah, I know it's it old, but they have that x factor going. The Dead were unique in their weirdness and all those who have followed the path, while decent in their own right, just don't do it for me. Probably a poor analogy but it's sort of like Star Trek. The series could be pretty corny and had cheesy special effects. The subsequent films and spin-offs are superior in acting and production values, and I like them OK, but I will always prefer the original. Energize!
Blair said...."When it
Blair said...."
When it comes down to it, I guess what I’m really looking for, whether it’s from so-called jam bands or a solo singer with one instrument, is some sort of connection. When you find it, you know it—you can’t miss it! And when you get it, you want more."
When it comes down to it, this is what it comes down to. Reading these posts, I am amazed by what some people love, like, praise, do not like, etc. I won't name band names, but some of the stuff that is praised here I cannot stomach for a variety of reasons. It is great that others do, but in my subjective musical world, no can do for most of the jam bands worshipped in these posts.
For me, the absolute amazing thing is one common thread that ties all these diverse opinions together: The Grateful Dead. The music united so many diverse music fans. The scene brought together so many diverse personalities and careers and spirtualities and outlooks. The legacy continues to inspire us and haunt us and motivate us and sadden us for days that are lost. Reading these posts, you realize how many bands have, in some way or fashion, tried to emulate what the Dead achieved; and yet reading these posts, and recognizing that pretty much no two people can agree on the same thing, you realize that no band has been able to acheive that. That Universality. That Transcendence. That All Encompassing Musical Spirituality that the Dead were somehow able to tap into.
This may be a post for the Religion and Spirituality thread, but then again, almost every forum post on this site could fit under that thread. Ranting here, I am, but as I sit back on this Memorial Day and enjoy the jam bands that move me- Dead, moe., and well, that's about it for today- I am once again thankful I was alive when I was.
J.T. Gossard
http://thehallucinogenicbible.blogspot.com/
agree with blair
never really found anything that grabbed my attention in most other jam bands. i like the grateful dead (a lot) but that sound is very particular. doesn't sound similar at all to other "jam bands". none of the jam bands have the combo of roots, blues, folk, country, etc. that initiall attracted me to the dead. i was raised on bluegrass, blues and country, seeing many shows in that genre before leaving grade school, including muddy waters who was my brother's godfather and sonny terry, with whom my father toured in 1974 when brownie's wife died. so for me, that is a significant part of the draw. and the emotional quality of the dead is unparalleled in the "jam band scene". call me a stick in the mud, a musical snob....many people do, but i know what i like and will not be "into" something just because it supposedly fits my taste or is lumped together with the dead in some way i can't feel.
sometimes you get shown the light
The biggest post-Jerry kick for me musically has been Tool. Most of my Dead friends find Tool much too aggressive, but the musicianship, emotions and songs hit me in a way I hadn't been hit since getting on the bus in Providence in the fall of '79.
sometimes you get shown the light
The biggest post-Jerry kick for me musically has been Tool. Most of my Dead friends find Tool much too aggressive, but the musicianship, emotions and songs hit me in a way I hadn't been hit since getting on the bus in Providence in the fall of '79.
Tool! I second that Tool
Tool! I second that Tool emotion katedog! I also have a friend from my Dead days who is a huge Tool fan also. The ability to tap into that darker side is what thrills me about the Dead and Tool. Good call!
J.T. Gossard
http://thehallucinogenicbible.blogspot.com/
One more addition...
In the (general) realm of the singer-songwriter I'd add Vusi Mahlasela to the list. One can almost feel the passion in his songs they're so visceral. Any of his records are good. Also, I would recommend the film Amandla!, which documents the centrality of music in the struggle for civil rights in South Africa. Do check it out!
"Is maith an scéalaí an aimsir." Time is a great storyteller. -- Irish Proverb
Phly Phamous Mockingbird
Phly...
Phly...
Phly...
Phish - Hartford 8.14.2009
Mockingbird...
...would be better with no vocals... a little too Yes/prog rock for my tastes, but with some nice moments, to be sure...
Well, this looks like a killer venue to see Phish...
Outside Lands Festival
Maybe you'll get a Mockingbird...or maybe you'll get a...
Divided Sky | Divided Sky(part2)
...anyway appreciate all your efforts Blair...great post!
"Let there be songs, to fill the air..."
Y'know, HG...
...watching that video of "Divided Sky" actually reminded me of something I DON'T Like about Phish--their tendency to work in really short melodic/rhythmic ideas. Like Zappa, they like to have radical tempo and key shifts in relatively short spaces, rather than cruising naturally from one idea to the next. You might say, 'well, how about something like 'Help-Slip-Frank' or 'Stronger Than Dirt.' Isn't that the same?" I don't think so. The way those Dead tunes are constructed, one section flows coherently one one to the next, even though one might involve a long, loose improvisatory flight and another a tight and precise rhythmic attack (think of the two or three parts of "Slipknot"). The Phish stuff feels almost random to me--changes for the sake of changes without an underlying logic. I liked the soft, lyrical part in the middle, but the rest of it, again, was like that English prog rock stuff I really don't care for. It's just a taste thing with me. I never cared for Yes or ELP or (most) Genesis. I know plenty of people who love those bands; more power to 'em; but not my thing...
WSP
This is an interesting blog Blair...
I am a long time Widespread Panic fan (they actually got me into listening to the Grateful Dead so I could better understand their roots...not to mention countless of other bands/artists they introduced me to).
I think their approach back in the Houser days was really unique. Mikey by no means will ever be considered the "greatest" technical guitarist but he had a very unique style and use of effects (specifically a volume pedal). Kind of interesting because you talk about your love for U2 and the Edge is someone who relies heavily on effects. Don't get me wrong the Edge and Houser are apples and oranges. But the effects/sound/tone certainly impact the over song or jam. Houser I consider someone to be a very subtle guitar player who could end up melting your face in very surprising places.
Its also tough if you haven't seen some of the bands you mentioned live. Back in the 90's I spent countless evenings on the rail watching WSP perform their magig
In terms of lyrics I think folks need to consider generational and geographical locations in terms of song writing.
I suggest you check out their Archive series, specifically the Huntsville, Montreal and Johnson City shows.
Obviously you are familiar with Jimmy Herring and the band is really tearing it up right now during their 25th Anniversary. Jimmy WSP is still great, different but great.
Cheers!
Panic Baby
My Story is long and adventurous. Im a "Touchhead". Please dont hurt me. Seriously, though, I got on the bus relatively late and loved it. The Dead are the Best. No Question about that. After Jerry died, I need to find something new. I saw all the Dead projects over the years and really enjoyed them(Furthur is amazing) but I still wanted to find the next coming as you will. I saw just about all of them. Allmans (OK, I saw them before Jerry died), Phish, Kimock, Dave Nelson Band, Moe, Max Creek, Govt Mule, Railroad Earth, Umphry's McGee and Panic. While Max Creek and David Nelson were amazing, WSP is the one that finally grabbed me. I think I would still be into Max Creek if I still lived on the East(Syracuse) coast but I would never have discovered Dave Nelson if I hadnt moved west (Portland). Panic is amazing right now and they are tearing it up. I have tickets to 5 shows in a month. Cannot. wait. Blair, you got to see them once before you write them off. Case in point, I wrote off the Grateful Dead until I was dragged to my first show. You just never know
Fellow Travelers
Nice job as always Blair.I did like the jams on Trey's solo album Shine.
Also, he played well with Bobby at the ten year
Jerry memorial at the Greeks in Berkeley '05.
Otherwise, I am right there with you.
I agree...
I have tried Phish many times...just downloaded this last weekend run at Bethel Woods and listening now.......you nailed it on the head Blair...the songcraft isn't there.......Thank Heavens for HUNTER!!!!
Furthur is OK....(boo's from the audience, right?...lol)...they still sound a 'bit off' to me whereas Ratdog after 2003 til the last show friggin' rocked! Bobby & the boys GOT IT!!! GET BACK TOGETHER!!!
I didn't read thru all the posts but what about Jemimah Puddleduck? Good ole MK can tear it up with the best of 'em.....with JT or Mookie, Bob & Billy Lee......a GREAT night! The show in Santa Cruz with Robin was great and especially the 5-6-11 San Diego show...pure magic!
My preference on the jam bands is for the ones with a Dead connection....like you said, the others are 'fellow travelers'
..even a blind man knows when the sun is shinin'...you can feel it!..
yeah
I have a strong appreciation for the songwriting of the GD. Hunter is the best. It's the grounding in the literary tradition I think that makes it so special. He is a very literate guy and it shows. And the music-well what can you say-it can be very deep, it can be oldtimey and old timey weird, it can be joyous, can be raucous and all of the above in a single jam-not to mention jazzy, fusiony, and country. It embodies some of the Bohemian tradition also. I also enjoy WSP and Derek Trucks. With WSP I like alot of the songwriting, especially John Bell's stuff. I like their musicality and I appreciate their Southern perspective on things. They have some deeply interesting music and I can't stop listening to their latest studio album.
my recommendation
Blair-check out WSP's latest studio-"Dirty Side Down".
agreed
I generally agree with Blair's post. I have tried Phish and WSP in varying degrees over the years. The musicians in Phish are exceptionally good, but their music has never resonated fully with me. I like some of their stuff, especially some tunes from Lawn Boy (Run Like and Antelope, Bathtub Gin), but they just don't grab me. While technically very good, I find them to be fairly soul-less and a bit too intense at times. I saw them twice in the mid-1990s and one time I had a fine time and the other they just didn't do it for me. I have one WSP cd that I like okay and I also saw them in the mid-1990s-- once again just an okay show. I found it fairly redundant.
I watched some Dead DVDs over the weekend and it is very clear to me. Jerry Garcia had that magical "IT" that elevated the music to a higher level. It made me really miss having the option to go see Jerry play. No other band has brought that magic to the table. I very much enjoyed Ratdog shows and the 09 Dead and I like Furthur (please visit the Midwest!) a lot, but Jerry was the man. I will spare you all my theory about the world and how much better/different it would be if JG was still alive.
So, jam bands, nobody does it better than GD. I am a blues fan, however, and have seen some great stuff. Hands down, the best show I have ever seen outside of GD was Luther Allison at a club in 1997. After a smoking two-hour set, he did a blistering one-hour encore. I have never seen anybody leave it all out on the stage like he did. Sadly, his body was consumed with tumors at the time and he died within two months of the show.
But, who to see today? Kenny Neal is a really solid player with a killer band. I'd like to see the Tedeschi/Trucks Band, that Derek Trucks is amazing (he played with Clapton a couple years ago and they did great shows with a lot of rare Derek and the Dominos tunes in the sets).
A WSP/ABB fan
I have to quote the above post from Estimated-Eyes about my feelings for Phish: "While technically very good, I find them to be fairly soul-less and a bit too intense at times."I have always liked Widespread Panic. I was fortunate to be able to see them in bars in the early 90's as well as the summer sheds. What I liked about them when Michael Houser was alive was that the band seemed to be trying to create a sound in unison, versus a lead player soloing over the band vamping behind. I've been surprised to read about how loud they are, I didn't notice that when I was seeing them live. (The Black Crowes were the only band I saw that I thought was too loud.) I'm surprised they are not more popular in the GD community. Maybe it is a regional thing, I have lived in the SE for 35 years now.
The Allman Brothers were a favorite of mine from about '91 till 2004 or so. Their restrictive policy about online shows eventually caused me to lose interest. I can't go see them anymore because of my wife's health and I can't afford $25 for every concert I want to hear. I don't understand it because Warren, Derek, Oteil, and Jaimoe can all be downloaded.
Derek and Warren are an incredible combo to watch. Derek has a cool, effortless style while Warren looks like he is pouring himself into every note. I miss the contrast Dickey Betts brought against Gregg's voice, but Derek and Warren make up for it with their playing.
Blair wrote: "...something I
Blair wrote: "...something I DON'T Like about Phish--their tendency to work in really short melodic/rhythmic ideas..."
My one live Phish experience I decided that I liked the piano and bass a lot and was impressed by the drums, but Trey A. was not my cup of tea, because his solos seem to be all short phrases. It is just my taste but I always liked the longer solos that developed, that had a beginning, a middle and an end. See Peggy-O from 7-1-80 for a fairly short example. Or the "Why Does Love Got to Be So Sad from _Derek and the Dominos in Concert_ (not the version on _Live at the Fillmore_). Zappa at his best (the solos if not the larger pieces) and Richard Thompson are two others who I really like in that way.
My son the Phish-head says he sees what I mean about Trey's solos but he likes them.
Great blog, great thread.
Richard Thompson...
is a phenomenal guitarist (and obviously a great songwriter), but it frustrates me he won't play more. He does "economical" as well as anyone, but I want to him really jam... man! Ain't gonna happen...
Phish - revisited
I have to revisit my previous comment..after downloading this past weekend's Bethel Woods shows from bt.etree and listening to them all day at work.....these were great shows. Someone else said that Phish was better after 2009....maybe they're onto something....
..even a blind man knows when the sun is shinin'...you can feel it!..
Why Does Love....
Bruno, I agree about that "Why Does Love Got To Be So Sad?" from In Concert. It has been years since I heard that version. I have been to many concerts over the years, but I can attribute any hearing loss I have to one drunken night of jamming In Concert extremely loud in my friends' small house.
I really like the Live at the Fillmore version though-- I love the beautiful jazzy solo at the end. Deadheads who have not heard live Derek and the Dominos should go out and get either or both of those cd sets, though my preference is the Live at the Fillmore cds. The Dominos was an amazing set of musicians who could really play.
Richard Thompson
You are right Blair, he does not let rip very much
oh but when he does.........(I was lucky enough to see it a couple of times)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3biCVTKwRQ
Railroad Earth
hands down! They come the closest to doing what the Dead did but in their own way, just as you said Blair! I discovered them several years ago and was blown away. I've seen them many times and have never been disappointed! I'm going to see them at Smilefest in NC this weekend. They have the originality, the musicianship and their music touches me on a spiritual level! Others I like a lot are String Cheese Incident, Donna the Buffalo and moe. Keller Williams solo has never really worked for me although I have seen him a couple times with Larry and Jenny Keel and really enjoyed both those shows. Your comments about Phish really resonated with me, Blair. I respect their talent but they don't move me. I too have tried to like them and would go see them live if offered the chance. I also agree that all these bands are "fellow travelers" and wish them well. I've decided if I continue to listen with an open mind I just might learn something!
Spread Cheese............
They always drag me to these shows. In 73 I said "who is this Grateful Dead?" and my friend said, "shut up, I got you a ticket you're goin". Little did I know it would be a life changing event. It was that morning in 95 when I almost drove off the canyon road into the creek when the announcer said the music died (again). After that nothing was able to give me that emotional, spiritual release that Jerry and his guitar seemed to be able to do with such ease. At the Fox theater one night a group opened for the opener and called themselves String Cheese Incident. They were (and still are) a great release. But when their following seemed to be more into the party than the music, it just wasn't that fun anymore. In the late 90s I was told I HAD to see this band Widespread Panic. They were a lot like the Dead they said, you'll like em. It took a couple of live shows and they grew on me. I have been a big fan ever since. The years between Hauser's leaving us and Jimmy H joining the band were iffy, but Jimmy has been a great addition. They also drug me to see Phish, once. We discussed the differences between Phish and GD and I thought the main difference was this.. the Dead had a wonderful way of taking you waaaay up with high intensity jams and bringing you back down for a while with comfortable mellow jams, they kept you on an even keel. Phish on the other hand, took us up with an in-your-face high intensity and never let you back down until it was over. Almost too intense for too long to be comfortable. But as we all know, none of these bands are about their recordings. You can only get a feel for any of them live. You shouldn't try to judge from tapes, or even video. Ya hadda be there man! I have been enjoying the Furthur shows immensely as of late but with one shortfall. While Joe is a fantastic drummer, he's only got two hands and some of this music takes four! Oh yeah, and don't forget Moonalice! They are in it for the music!!
In the end, it's all about what YOU like and how you feel about the music. Music is a live thing, recordings rarely do it justice. See it live. Hear it, breathe it, see it, smell it, roll in it, Live Music is Better bumper stickers should be issued!!
So many roads to ease my soul ...
Back in 1995 , I was a 20 year old Dead head , whom began what is called as sobriety on a sunny spring day in May - the 20th . Just when our favourite band were on a west coasy stand of shows
I had to do an inpatient treatment , although i got clean by myself and the help of an excellent friend who had 2 years sobriety in NA . The first night i arrived in Mount Pleasant - Iowa . was exactly the day before J G passed away . I successfully finished my court order in Mount Pleasant and continued with my life that fall
On Oct 20 th Phish rolled into Cedar Rapids . Just 45 minutes south of Cedar Falls , my hometown And played an outstanding show . It had energy , and hit me emotionally . It was a rainy , dark October Iowa afternoon . And their music was perfect for that specific moment . And i knew they were more than just ' the band ' people were checikng out , as the Dead were painfully finished .
That concert in C r happened to be SUCH a blast , that me and a friend gassed up my 1988 Nissan Pickup truck , and trucked on down to Madison WI , for the Dane County coliseum show on the 24th .
That happened to be another Remarkable musical experience . I then saw them in 1996 , twice . And in 1997 twice again ( Ventura CA , and Champaign IL } . And ocassionally cherish the live tapes of those shows as much as some of the best times I had with the Grateful Dead at their shows
I think it is all in personal preference . Everyone has their tastes and likes . And we must respect all tastes and likes
Widespread gives many - and myself included - much pleasure . I got to see them quite many times , thanks to my great friend Lisa Humbert from Glenview IL whom persistently insisted i go and give them a shot . My first for them was in Chicago in May 1997 . But the show that really got me on the WSP bus was the June 21 in KC KS . Really good . Excellent place for a show too ...
I had the Luck of seeing them in Red Rocks in June 1998 . And THAT was a PLACE to see a band . I can imagine a Dead show there would ve been ther wordly , to say the least
Whoever saw the Dead in Red Rocks is one lucky SOB
Peace , and choose your music well .......
* Since cool places are an excellent topic . Deer Creek was such a fine outdoor venue for a Dead show , in this case .
Oh no you din't!
Blair.....you opened the Phish vs. Grateful Dead box. What were you thinking?
Just joshing. Very verdant territory.
I think this is something we lovers of GD and Phish ect. have all thought about from time to time. Part of me cringes with the competitive edge to it.....music is competitive when you are trying to make a living at it... but it shouldn't be a sport for the fans.
Many of the thoughts on this thread say what I feel, so I don't need to repeat them in detail.
But I must say, the generational aspect cannot be ignored. Those of you who saw the GD before 1985 know how you felt when the "Touch Heads" came on board. And you who saw the Dead before 1981, before 1978, 1973, 1970...know how it feels.
There is a sense of ownership when you were there before "the others".
I own Phish recordings, including Billy Breathes (AKA Phish's 'American Beauty' because it was more "acoustic") which I enjoy listening to 12 years since its release.
But I didn't see Phish unitl last year at Hershey. And I loved it. It was loud. And crazy. And jamming....and free......
What Phish doesn't have is Hunter.....end of argument. Hunter's lyrics are Shakespearian in their timeless brilliance. And that is why I will be listening to the GD in 20 years....Billy Breathes..... mayyyyyybeeee.
Rooting for the jambands, whether you listen to them or not is the essential point.
Where would the jamband scene be without Phish? No other bands mentioned on this thread had what it took to keep The Grateful Dead bus/train moving. Phish was the link. For that, I will always be grateful to Phish and their fans.
Also, I applaud Phish for their festivals. Phish is the most phan phriendly band I know. And for that I salute them.
Someone captured it with the talk about the Grateful Dead making their stew from the original music that influencet them. While the followers have a diluted jamband stew.
I'm going to add some desert.
To me, jamband music is ice cream. The Grateful Dead was the "Heavenly Hash" I love. Phish is a nice "Chocolate Marshmallow Swirl."
Animal Liberation Orchestra is a tasty new "Macadamia Nut'" flavor I love,...
John Butler Trio is a Butter Brickle I'm digging these days.
There are some jambands out there that taste like vanilla to me......but it's a banana split to someone else....and no matter what, it's still a tasty treat.
WSP
My Favorite band is Grateful Dead of course, and not a fan of phish at all but Panic is fucking way up there with Dead shit. Really heavy lyrics a lot of the time and some really heavy jamming They got soul for sure. this is why i don't like Phish There jams don't rise and fall when needed or get weird when needed it just don't take you nowhere . Dead , Panic, Earth, Allman Brothers, Little Feat, Mule. are for sure the top bands i dig because they got soul and take me places i could never have imagined Ha Ha.
Leftover Salmon
Always dug so many aspects of this band. Many great songs, many great shows....here's a couple favorites...
Up On The Hill
Stay Away Monday
Assembly Of Dust
Good read, Blair, and couldn't agree with you more with regards to Phish, DMB, WSP, etc. The Grateful Dead had some intangible (sometimes mystical) element that no other band since has been able to re-create. At least that's been my experience . . .
And I agree that Railroad Earth is possibly the best post-Jerry band to come out of the jam band scene--what a great band!
I'm surprised, however, that no one has mentioned Assembly of Dust! If you like Railroad Earth I can't imagine you wouldn't like AOD.
Kudos to Hal R for his great post--well done sir!
I am sad that no one else
I am sad that no one else seems to enjoy moe. as much as me. Heck, even Blair gave them a shout out. Discover moe. people!
J.T. Gossard
http://thehallucinogenicbible.blogspot.com/
Phish again
I used to have an ongoing debate with a younger guy on the Phish v Dead thing. He gave me tapes, hauled me to a couple of shows, tried to TALK me into loving Phish...and it just didn't happen for me. Given that I'm not a fan, I actually have quite a few Phish shows sitting on the shelf...and sit they do. I did invest the "total immersion" time in an effort to "get it." Still didn't happen.
And honestly it does come down to the songs -- I love when Phish does a cover, but between the iffy lyrics and the mostly hookless melodies, I don't find myself humming or singing Phish songs, ever. Obviously, so painfully obvious that this is not the case with the Dead. I think that with the Dead, the jams serve the songs; with Phish, the songs are secondary...or maybe that isn't the case and they just aren't particularly good songwriters.
Richard Thompson -- yes, you live for those moments at shows when he cuts loose, and when he does, oh my! My favorite living singer-songwriter-guitarist, hands down.
Derek and the Dominos
"Deadheads who have not heard live Derek and the Dominos should go out and get either or both of those cd sets, though my preference is the Live at the Fillmore cds. The Dominos was an amazing set of musicians who could really play."
Couldn't agree more. What an incredible album (cd, release, whatever it's called now).
GD: the only band that matters
I went to...four Phish shows (91, 92, 94) and you enjoyed myself. Coulda gove to a few others, but pussed out. energy yes, but not GD magic.
I have "A Live One" and "Hampton Comes Alive". Like macaroni and cheese for the ears. delicious, but not the aural gourmet smorgasbord that the GD cook up.
Overall Phish would be fun to see again, and I'll listen to Phish CDs again someday.
SCI a few years ago...snooze. LOS...eh. DMB...wtf??? DMB & DMBR. Everything else I'm too close minded to try.
Oh yeah, DSO has its moments, but when they did an "original setlist", they lost me.
Sincerely,
Kvetch McButtmunch