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    marye
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    Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

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  • The Good Ole G…
    Joined:
    Today's Pick

    Morning!

    Let's see what this week brings.
    OB - I'd be down to take the anniversary Cal Expo & or Shoreline Trip June 1990. 6/8 is looking good!
    JIMINMD - 6/8/77 you say.. that could be a possible too.

    LMK what you all choose to do.
    I'm definitely liking the look 6/8/90:
    Jerry songs in Set 1 - Cold Rain, Jack-A-Roe, High Time, Bird Song...
    Set 2 opener - UJB > China > Rider .
    I think I know what I'm doing here..

    Had some nice listening over the weekend. PNW shows were fun, neither have PITB so I tend to skip them, but am glad to have given them a relisten.

    That Dark Star > Eyes > China Doll from '73 is far out.
    GOLLUM wonder why Keith didn't play on Dark Star, he starts in at about 4 minutes till the end, but now I'm curious. And you all make me wanna listen to the Yale Bowl '71. Wow STRIDER 88 you saw that too! Keep em coming.

    China > Rider '74 was the highlight on that for me, and hearing Money Money... it's not good, but makes me smile. Also forgot about the Vocal drop outs and had to check some reviews to make sure my gear was working :)

    1987-09-18 - Love that show, I wouldn't say it's the best from '87, but it sure is fun. As far as '87 goes the 7th member is present at most of those shows, roaring and excited and having a great time. For a little while there it sure looked like it might be coming to an end. But Jerry came back and was healthy and energized, the band was having fun, the shows were fun, everybody was thrilled and that energy passed back and forth throughout the year. It was so exciting that we all still got to do this thing we loved to do.. at least one more time. OTIS, definitely check out East Coast Spring Tour Hampton & Hartford shows.

    Have a Grate Day Everyone!

  • JimInMD
    Joined:
    6/8/77

    6/8/77 came in on the Dave's Picks 34 page. Hard to argue with that.

  • daverock
    Joined:
    5/19/74

    I have listened to about half of it, but, as today is the day I unveil Dave's Picks 34, I may not get round to the rest of it today. Lightweight that I am!

    The first half dozen or so songs are really well played and shouted. The vocal drop outs cause quite an interesting effect, as it encourages me to listen to the instrumental interplay more. You couldn't really recommend it as a first buy to someone, but for us who have so much, these drop outs may not really matter.

    For me also, the highlights on the first half are China-Rider and Weather Report Suite. Superb playing by Bob during the transition between China and Rider. His playing at this time was much more than what I usually imagine by the description "rhythm guitar". Great the way they move off center during the jam on WRS. The playing is so subtle, the way they play off each other-every member of the band synched in and adding to the whole. So...thoughtful sounding. No resorting to gimmicks, special effects or time honoured crowd pleasing licks. Its great! Lovely clear sound, too.

  • Gollum
    Joined:
    Dolly Sods

    Looks awesome on the google. Sounds like a great day. Adding to the bucket list-

  • JimInMD
    Joined:
    5/19/74

    I had forgotten this was the show with the vocal dropouts. Two long shows back to back too.. sorry for that.

    I mentioned it merely to compare the China Riders. This one is one of my more liked and a freshie today reminded me why. Also.. the temps and weather here were spectacular.. so we hopped in the truck and went trucking on down to the Dolly Sods Wilderness Area, a remote stretch in (in my opinion) the most spectacular part of West Virginia. The high was 71 degrees, not high humidity, but not low either. Narly a cloud in the sky.. so we hiked up the beautiful canyon of Red Creek several miles.. found a remote spot on the river to ourselves, pretty far off trail.. not another sole to be seen and set up comfy day camp. Spectacular swimming in the middle of Class V rapids, but at very low water.. so fun and not dangerous. Beautiful waterfalls abound.. and we jammed out to the better part of this show, finishing it on the drive home.

    Highlights to me were #1 the weather, #2 mother nature, #3 The Grateful Dead. The China Rider and WRS were apex, but a second set Peggy-O on the hike back.. that mellow swank (and some dank) is, to me at least, very special.

    Good day. Forgot my swimming shorts.. At what age are you too old to skinny dip anyway?

    Edit: #1, Mother Nature, 2 the weather, 3 GD. What was I thinking?

  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    Before, now, later

    9/18/87: ✔️ Nice little show. Start off like a rocket sled fortunately attached to the rails or it might of jumped the tracks. Bobs all fired up. JG balances it out with a nice Sugaree, sweet Candyman, and big Bird song...Groovy Shakedown etc.
    Nice/fun La Bamba surprise complete with Spanish lyrics! Good 87 show, but best of the year???

    6/24/73:✔️ I don’t know what the hell it is but I’ve still not been able to really get with the PNW box. I’m sure it’s because I’ve always been trying to force it into my soul instead of letting it simmer and marinate naturally. When the box first was released things were so nuts I’m surprised I had a chance to even just rip it and background play it. Since then I’ve tried a couple times to catch up with it but things always seem to get distracting and busy and long/short.. I’ve still really haven’t had a chance to get tight with this box, sigh.
    Yesterday continued the trend, as I had it on but got distracted finally coming up with some bookshelf plans for my office/stereo room. The music helped the muse and I think I have a first draft witch is often the hard part, but alas this PNW beauty was dust in my mental wind. Definitely need to hit that DS up at least, and really need to try and do a show a day real sit down of the whole box soon!...but In the mean time I’ll gladly visit 5/19/74 later today!

    FUTURE PICKS: the following are going to be 30 anniversary show this next week or two, and their also part of my first trip to the promised land. Finally, after being on the bus for like 13 years and over 80 shows at that point, we finally made it to the famed promised land and it definitely was real AND spectacular!
    So I’m personally going that direction for these, but thought perhaps all y’all might be in for the ride of some/all these 6 shows as Pic-o-the-day possibilities? Honestly, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard any besides the vault/cd release from 6/16/90, so I’m not really sure I can suggest anything specifically. I member they were all good shows, but only the released one comes to mind because I remember the unusual set list. I do remember thinking that these west coast shows had an energy or vibe that went inward versus powerful east coast shows were the energy flowed outward...sorry, hard to explain the thirty year old clouded ramblings of a blissful tripster, but some things fortunately do stick in what’s left of the ole memory bank. Like the vibe was comparatively quiet, subtle, mellow, relaxed in a way that was very inwardly loud and powerful? Yeah, remember it really hit me that energy vortex thingy...
    So here’s the shows, if anyone is more knowledgeable about specifics or has a suggestion I’m all ears. I’m going to try and tag them all, but just thought these might be perfect for our club here as their good shows but seem to be fairly under the radar...
    CAL EXPO
    - 6/8/90
    - 6/9/90
    - 6/10/90
    SHORELINE
    - 6/15/90
    - 6/16/90
    - 6/17/90
    Ok, thanks, let me know your mind!

  • icecrmcnkd
    Joined:
    Jim, cursive

    There’s a font for that.

  • Gollum
    Joined:
    Yale Bowl 1971

    Wow, to have been at that Yale Bowl 71 show! That Road Trips release has always been a favorite. That show was a coveted rarity back in my tape trading days in the early 80's. I had read in an old "Mikel" flyer that it had one of the very best Dark Stars, but nobody ever had it except as a low quality audience tape. So I was thrilled with its official release. Isn't this the ideal 71-72 transition show? The wild and wooly "Bobby Mcgee" is one of my favorites. Due for a re-listen! (I listened to the Star this morning through headphones, but couldn't hear Pig's organ, but I think he is playing some kind of shaker)

    Thanks for the JGB clip bolo. I first heard "The Maker" by the JGB and just loved the song. I've looked for other versions but so far none can top Jerry's for me. A bunch of JGB songs are like that: Senor, Stop that Train, Dixie, Tangled Up, etc. Lots of great versions by great artists, but Jerry owns those songs in my book.

    Queueing up Portland 74-

  • JimInMD
    Joined:
    Labeling Tapes

    I was (well tried to be) the same.. but penmanship was never my strong point.

    Still, for the really great tapes I was able to get my grubby paws on, I made a strong attempt to make clean and cool labels. I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse that computers do most of the writing for us now. I don't think they teach cursive anymore.. times have changed.

  • bob t
    Joined:
    I think 5/19/74 set II was one of my first 10 shows i had on

    cassette... I even remember buying some colorful construction paper tape labels, I can't remember what show but i know it is blue because i still have it!!! Never bought any more, became a purist how i labeled all my tapes... what a moron i was.... bob t

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Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.
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Jerry's vocals here are so smooth and pure. Sometimes, I love hoarse and gravelly vocals on this tune ( I love the Augusta 10/12/84). But this one is sweet.
It's amazing how well Keith's electric keys fit in here. He was truly one of a kind.

That was awesome!

I'll save you the blow by blow as you'll all be feeling them... and they feel good.

RE: ORO - Ha ha, if the outing by Jimbo you speak of is Geeking Out majorly over the Grateful Dead.. then I'm afraid we've all been outed.
If it's something else to do with being a bot or a spy, then I'll let you, BOLO24 & JIMINMD keep rolling with that..
But yes, Here's to GD Geeks!

RE: ALL - Thanks for all your input yesterday on how you roll this fabulous music, I was too lazy & long winded to respond to each direct, but seriously good input and a lot to take away. ICECRMCNKD that's some next level backing up, you're hardcore, Impressive! ORO: Networking info, wow just wow! Like JIMINMD read it all, understood some. Glad to know you all. I'm not going to let this info go to waste and will continue to refer to it as needed.

This all put it into perspective... I'm NOT the only one who spends untold amounts of hours pouring over this stuff, collecting and perfecting and loving it!

Glad to be one of the many!
Keep on Rockin'

PS - JIMINMD - I think you're right about that fatty / bowl :) Hampton '87 might need some love one of these days!

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I really enjoyed listening to this. A consistently great show, from the first track, through to the last. I like the way the opening trio of songs are the same ones that open the Blues For Allah album, and the last track is the one that closes it. It feels like the whole show is encased withn the vibe of that album.
In many ways, its quite a strange show-unique. The fact that it is consistently great means that their are less peaks and troughs than in a lot of shows. It sounds almost choreographed - no rough edges at all. As Gollum says, the singing is excellent. I would single out Crazy Fingers in that respect - beautifully sung and played.

I listened to my vinyl copy of this, which sounds great. I wonder if a single show from the 76 box will come out on vinyl ? I am not getting the box, but I would go for that.

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What a great show from start to finish, heck I'd put it in my top 15 Dead shows of all time, it really swings.

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Just listen to one anniversary song if you have time. Playing in the Band 5/21/74 HEC Edmundson Pavilion... part of the Pacific Northwest Box... Longest Playing ever... bob t

ha.. I just did.

Had a nice 47 min soak in the tub to wash away the stress (etc.) from grocery shopping. Lossless, wireless Sennheiser's in tow.

Tomorrow might just be Portland '74.. one of my favorite China Riders.

I guess I need to be more faithful to the show of the day. Working on that.

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In reply to by The Good Ole G…

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..and another BobT Shoutout.. is that PITB from the bonus disc from Jai Alai Fronton. I listened to that one soaking last night.

Both are holy shit good. It's no wonder I have a hard time conforming to the show a day play.

I might just prefer Jai Alai, so jazzy.. not a wasted note anywhere and not a note or chord too much. Notes, scales, chords and weirdness were performed exactly as needed.

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In reply to by The Good Ole G…

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I was always a big fan of Milkin the Turkey. The first release! So good. Definitely short, but stellar. Is it the first analog digital digital CD?

And how about a Blues for Allah encore! When I was a young pup I always had an infinity for the Blues for Allah release. It was so different. I even had the Blues for Allah tapestry. I think it finally met its demise in the late 2000s. Should have held on to it.

Thanks again Oroborous! I have a lot of work to do.
What's on tap for tomorrow?

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Sounds like a good one, to kick off this weekend, the "unofficial start of summer".

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I'm in. Starting... Now.

10/19/73 came up on the Dave's Picks page.. I don't think we covered that one yet.. did we? If not.. we might slide that into the queue sometime over the next few weeks.

Great energy on this thread since day 1.. thanks to all of you and Bolo too.

First Official Recordings from the Lost Betty Boards seems fitting with Betty cued up for the AMA tonight.

Wish Betty would do a Shakedown Stream Pre-Show... that would be cool.

Good Pick Bob T!

I was on the fence of suggesting either:
9/27/72 DiP V11
10/19/73 DiP V19
But kept quite to see who else might have some input.

So I second a review of 10/19/73 soon!

And 9/27/72 is looking mighty good too.

Happy Friday Everyone!

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In reply to by The Good Ole G…

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....today's choice is mucho excellente. I'm in. At work today, so trying to locate a good sounding version. Looks like there's only two out there. Both Wagner recordings.
edit. recordings sound ok, but I was spoiled by the 78 Box. Will listen at home tonight after Betty's AMA on Reddit.

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... what a gem! Agree with VGuy (and many others here,) first listen to this show was a hell of a nice surprise! Still my favorite of this beauty of a little box, which also happens to be my favorite 78 release - so I suppose that makes this show my favorite 78 so far.

Two discs of pure GD gold - all killer, no filler!

Peace

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Spent a lot of time there....suppose I'm obligated.

Loudest stadium in the country! I'm in!!!

KCJ

Edit: Loudest as long as there are people in it ☹️

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....are you still at your same address? Gotta mail you some local brews and a keychain/bottle opener to make good on our SuperBowl bet.

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Saw a couple shows there a few years ago, most notably Leftover Salmon. Fun show to catch if they show up near your town, btw. Anyway, H>S>F from One From The Vault was played during the set breaks, much to the delight of the assembled crowd.

On to Arrowhead and some good ol' KC BBQ courtesy of Willie and friends.

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Looking back now, remember all we had of the first 3 shows, Kansas City, Omaha, and St. Paul were audience tapes, never on my radar at all. 7/7 and 7/8 were widely circulated in tape trading days... Jimin MD we are on the same wave length with last nights 5/21/74 Playing, and when I was climbing the walls this morning I almost said 10/19/73, (I love the wheat field and sky on the cover!!!!) If you get a second, I never realized the Willie Nelson picnics had such a long history before and after!!! Doing yard work right now, on Big River, hope my neighbors enjoy this concert, because I am.... bob t

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About ready to have some myself...burnt end platter...yum! Same address Vguy, I’m not going anywhere soon! looking forward to those beers!!!

Is anyone familiar with Willy’s son Lukas? I just picked up his new vinyl, Turn Off the News And Build A Garden....good stuff!

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KCJanes has moved to Maryland. I am sending his new address via PM.

Edit: Heads-up.

In looking through the previous posts, it's obvious his previous account here was hacked, probably by a grifter, beer guzzling ex-neighbor who collects plundered bottle openers. Be careful with your passwords folks, this stuff happens all the time.

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...perhaps my love for this show was bolstered by the uniqueness of hearing it for the first time, the overall great SQ, and the excitement of it being the first show in a shiny new box.

I have listened to this show a number of times in the past, but this time through, I am seeming to notice a lot more of the "warts" than I have previously. "Bertha" starts strong, and the playing on "Good Lovin'" is hot, especially the end - but the singing is all over the place on that one. Not terrible, but just off. Donna has a number of miscues throughout the show, off-key clams, which I thought were pretty rare after hiatus. "Tenn Jed" is good, and "Jack Straw" is powerful, despite a few minor miscues. "FOTD" sounds flat and out of tune to these ears - "MAMU>Big River" is good and peppy.

I think I really noticed the "off" quality of this show during "Terrapin"... Jerry seems kind of lost and there doesn't seem to be a lot of "inspiration" to move him or the band brightly through this one...

"Playin" through the end is great though, and this is what I remember the most about this show. What are they saying right after "Drums"? Something about how "they set it up backwards..." then the crazy laughing/hooting/creepyness that goes on throughout the "Space" is awesome - must have been weird for a lot of folks there to see some good ol' boy country. "Estimated" is a high point, and "The Other One" is 78 power... "Wharf Rat" and the double shot of Berry to close it all out is hot, and in the end, they managed to pull out a good set, in spite of themselves.

I really do think that 78 is the most hit-or-miss year of the 70s.

An Ok, but somewhat mediocre disc one, HOT disc two (save that "Terrapin.") I still love a lot of what is here, but I think I am going to have to reevaluate this show as both my favorite release from 78, and even as my favorite of this box. Official score: 7 / 10. Kind of sad, but I suppose people change...

It was a fun listen anyway! What's on tap for tomorrow?

Peace

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A great box set . Arrowhead Stadium is a fun one long set. Any time the Dead could share the stage with Willie Nelson would have been Americana at its best before Americana became a hip term for a broad music genera .

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I am really enjoying this first set! On "Deal" now, and overall, I think this is a better disc than Arrowhead disc 1. I'd forgotten about the hilarious mess-up in "Mexicali" and how damn awesome this "Peggy-O" is!

I just may work my way through this whole box over the weekend, along with the Show of the Day (of course :)

Peace

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Lukas' band is Promise of the Real, they are fantastic. They played with Neil Young for a tour or two, missed that one, but have seen them live and they can really jam. All of their albums are good, but the first Lukas Nelson & Promise of the Real is the best one for sure. Catch them live next time you can.

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The thing I love most about this show is how it just SOUNDS like a hot sunny stadium show in Kansas City. I can imagine the KC BBQ, warm beer, and sweaty hippies packed liked sardines. Man, that all sounds good right now. I agree the show really starts to pay off in the Playin jam. This jam sounds louder and more aggressive than the sublime one from Dick's18 just a few months earlier, but vive la difference. Now I'm into the weird Space, hoping for a gentle "come down" by the end but who knows?....

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In reply to by bolo24

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Welcome to the rock and roll barbecue. Can you imagine. The Dead as the opening act for Waylon Jennings and Willie Nelson. Imagine if you were there for the country music and you saw these band playing Terrapin Station and then later the Other One? And I agree with Otis, this Terrapin is no 77 Terrapin, not smooth, but still a great show.

I still love listening to all these shows. They are all different.

Be well folks!

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Good stuff, good stuff.

You all wanna dig in to some 10/19/73 tomorrow?

VGUY72 - I see you over there asking Betty questions on Reddit... I hope she gets to it, seems like she's trying to answer them all. I decided to throw one in too, fingers x'd.

How cool is Betty Cantor-Jackson?

I'd say Way Cool!

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Ever since Fall out from The Phil Zone, i love this song... my emotions go crazy, happy.... sad..... you name it, especially at 1:20 in the morning over served!!!! Looking forward to Oklahoma City in the morning... Mind Left Body Jam is great!!! Good night all, be safe...bob t

....she didn't answer me. Yet. She answered some good questions. In Arrowhead Space currently. Seguing into Prophet. Nice.
Told ya I'd get caught up.....

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....Weir yells, "Easy now, easy". He followed that up the next show during the Mexicali stumble, "paying attention". Then they dare to follow up a raging Mama Tried w/ a Peggy-O?
I concur.

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*Complete Setlist- Primo!
*Disk #1
First set:
"Promised Land" (Chuck Berry) – 3:44
"Sugaree" (Jerry Garcia, Robert Hunter) – 8:18
"Mexicali Blues" (Bob Weir, John Barlow) – 3:58
"Tennessee Jed" (Garcia, Hunter) – 8:00
"Looks like Rain" (Weir, Barlow) – 8:05
"Don't Ease Me In" (traditional, arranged by Grateful Dead) – 4:24
"Jack Straw" (Weir, Hunter) – 5:32
"They Love Each Other" (Garcia, Hunter) – 5:44
"El Paso" (Marty Robbins) – 4:51
"Row Jimmy" (Garcia, Hunter) – 9:23

*Disc two
"Playing in the Band" (Weir, Mickey Hart, Hunter) – 18:23
Second set:
"China Cat Sunflower" (Garcia, Hunter) – 9:11 >
"I Know You Rider" (traditional, arranged by Grateful Dead) – 6:18
"Me and My Uncle" (John Phillips) – 3:34
"Mississippi Half-Step Uptown Toodeloo" (Garcia, Hunter) – 7:30
"Big River" (Johnny Cash) – 4:52

*Disc three
"Dark Star" (Garcia, Bill Kreutzmann, Phil Lesh, Ron "Pigpen" McKernan, Weir, Hunter) – 15:45 >
"Mind Left Body Jam" (Grateful Dead) – 10:41 >
"Morning Dew" (Bonnie Dobson, Tim Rose) – 13:55
"Sugar Magnolia" (Weir, Hunter) – 10:10
First encore:
"Eyes of the World" (Garcia, Hunter) – 14:31 >
"Stella Blue" (Garcia, Hunter) – 7:57
Second encore:
"Johnny B. Goode" (Berry) – 4:08

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I will freely admit I only hunt and peck out bits and pieces of these picks of the day. It takes a real commitment to pound out a show every day. (commitment or committed?)

Also, unlike most, I don't know if I ever listened fully to my first show. My first show was 4/1/80 - Capitol Theatre. This is the show where they all came out behind different instruments at the start of the show.

Had it playing in the car yesterday, got to He's Gone. I floating along thinking this is a GREAT recording. It hit about 20 seconds of patch in the middle lyrics (audience) and I'm thinking it's one of the patches that everyone talked about. All through He's Gone I'm thinking I'm listening to a Dave's the sound was so good. Then I look at the dash and see the show date and remember I was listening to my first show.

I wish I knew more when I saw this show, but I was new to everything. The Capitol only held about 3k people.

So maybe try 4/1/80. Shakedown encore!

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Yes, nice call. I haven't appreciated this show as much as others in these forums and I'm sure it's just an oversight! 9/27/72 was also mentioned- that may be a keen idea. Surely that show is as great as the more celebrated 9/21/72? (Dick picked it a lot earlier!)
Spitballing:
*Winterland 6/8/77 Lemieux sez top 10 of 1977, 19 min. Eyes
*Cape Cod 10/27/79 Lemieux gives shoutout in Dave's 34 blurb
*Boise 9/2/83 unfairly maligned!
Just some ideas. We do have a whole Memorial Day weekend and there are no rules, right?

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In reply to by Gollum

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Probably committed Dennis, but who would take us?? First show 4/1/1980. That is cool, one of my favorite Grateful Dead years, and not represented well at all with official releases. Did you make to any of the fall 1980 shows?

Holy shit Gollum, not one pick from you but three. All good ideas, but I will leave it up to the Committee. Always loved the Winterland 77 June shows.

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Listening to Dark Star 30 minute jam right now. Dicks Pick #11 is so good. Terrific concert and Great for Saturday morning.

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Let's go with Gollum's Cape Cod choice of 10/27/79.... Since we can't go to the Cape, and if you have an Orange or Yellow license plate our Rhode Island law enforcement is going to give you grief!! We can celebrate vicariously through this show!!! Lobsters, steamers, clams, corn, not included!!! bob t

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The Midwest leg of the fall tour of 73 looks super high energy. Was living in Kansas City that fall going to the Art Institute. Pre-internet , had nary a clue they were playing all around Kansas City within a few hours drive . I did see the them four times in the spring of 73.
One of my favorite Dicks Picks. Incredible Dark Star. Already sounding different from 1972 versions. All and all an amazing Grateful Dead concert from the heartland of America in 1973. Bet it wasn’t sold out either.

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We may have a quorum for the Cape cod?!! BobT - love the food/location carryover. We move from KC BBQ to a New England Clambake. Cape Cod sounds like a paradise.

I guess we don't have any foods to go with poor Oklahoma, but yeah, it really is the American heartland and the music is exquisite. I've spun the Playin' and Dark Star a couple of times today (so far).....