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Nuclear power! Carcinogenic cell phones! The Stanley Cup! and the usual parade of kids dancing and shaking their bones, politicians throwing stones, etc. Discuss.
Don't you DARE keep it to
Don't you DARE keep it to yourself!!!!! Ha ha!!!Thats what everyone's here for right? To express themselves. It's a pleasure to correspond with you, TigerLilly.
I have WAY too much respect for the Grateful Dead, the Deadheads and the Forum to use words that offend people. Never knowingly, mind you. My sincere apologies. I only used it for a lil' punctuation.
I will check that link you mentioned, many thanks. And i'll certainly PM you with some artistic websites, probably tomorrow.
Please tell her NEVER to stop creating art. Whether it becomes a "way of life" or a career matters not one jot. Its the expressiveness that counts. Money be damned!
Till tomorrow everyone; i have homemade soup, bread and strawberry sorbet to imbibe. That and Wimbledon Tennis.
Remember everyone:
Support Bacteria!
It's the closest to culture some people will ever get....
Aren't i are clever little fella? Er, no, not really......
An open letter to Ptesident Obama
Dear Mr. President,
This is a pivotal moment in the history of our country. Decisions are being made about the national budget that will impact the lives of virtually every American for decades to come. As we address the issue of deficit reduction we must not ignore the painful economic reality of today - which is that the wealthiest people in our country and the largest corporations are doing phenomenally well while the middle class is collapsing and poverty is increasing. In fact, the United States today has, by far, the most unequal distribution of wealth and income of any major country on earth.
Everyone understands that over the long-term we have got to reduce the deficit - a deficit that was caused mainly by Wall Street greed, tax breaks for the rich, two wars, and a prescription drug program written by the drug and insurance companies. It is absolutely imperative, however, that as we go forward with deficit reduction we completely reject the Republican approach that demands savage cuts in desperately-needed programs for working families, the elderly, the sick, our children and the poor, while not asking the wealthiest among us to contribute one penny.
Mr. President, please listen to the overwhelming majority of the American people who believe that deficit reduction must be about shared sacrifice. The wealthiest Americans and the most profitable corporations in this country must pay their fair share. At least 50 percent of any deficit reduction package must come from revenue raised by ending tax breaks for the wealthy and eliminating tax loopholes that benefit large, profitable corporations and Wall Street financial institutions. A sensible deficit reduction package must also include significant cuts to unnecessary and wasteful Pentagon spending.
Please do not yield to outrageous Republican demands that would greatly increase suffering for the weakest and most vulnerable members of our society. Now is the time to stand with the tens of millions of Americans who are struggling to survive economically, not with the millionaires and billionaires who have never had it so good.
Respectfully,
Sen. Bernie Sanders;
and Co-signers
Yo, sign the petition, go to Sen. Bernie Sander's website and select newsletter.
Agreed 100%
Great letter, very well written.
and while your at it, Mr. President...
... show some effective leadership by getting Congress to agree on raising the debt limit, thus avoiding an 11th hour debt ceiling nail-biter, the inability to pay our obligations, and triggering almost certain stock market havoc. (See deficit reduction info in previous post)
As long as...
...the dollar remains the world's "reserve" currency the bond market (and the sky) won't fail on America -- for lack of another place to go.
However, if China free floats it's currency, after bailing out the European Union (Greece, Spain, Portugal, other weaklings) and IT becomes the world's reserve currency then watch out!
America will end up being a very dangerous, quasi-broke bully. Could it be true what they say about the US? We are the barbarians and they are the true cultural elite -- as they destroy the planet totally with coal-fired power plants....?
keep it futile
Well that's all very well lamagonzo, but just what DID happen with the judges on American X-Factor?................
Huh?
....Are you comparing my comment to useless trivia or is there a serious point there. I try hard not to indulge in useless trivia on this site.
the benefit of easy origami is two fold
just a cheeky little joke....!!
I just love your limey sense of humo(u)r!
I saw Jonapi's comment straight away as a gentle joke, but then I am on the same side of the pond as he is. Also maybe also a small dose of self irony in there since Jonapi is himself equally prone to rant away on heavy topics. Either that or plain hypocracy; also a UK speciality ;-) That was a joke. Honest.
@CB & Jonapi
No worries, mates!
(%) ; ~ }
Nukes
Build the Planet Solar Grid Vancouver will return
Any news on a Dead tour coming up?
Now go feed those hogs before they worry themselves into anemia
Dead is Dead is Dead
Furthut or 7 Walkers if you want Billy and Micky. I think the crypt is sealed on "The Dead" but it's been widely reported that vampires have escaped.
Don't get bitten...
did i already do my déjà vu joke?
Prone to heavy ranting, cosmicbadger? how dare you, Sir.....
Always good to have a little stir! I forgot that irony in the US is still considered to be Bert's roommate in Sesame Street.
Yeah, i too think that The Dead are probably sleeping for the foreseeable. Which i think is the best decision really, until they come at the material from a different angle. I think a real shake up would be inspired; my vote starts for Nels Cline & Jeff Tweedy to fill the vocals/guitar role. Maybe a little helping of Junior Mack for the traditionalists.
And in my opinion, stick to 7 Walkers falcstubs; great sound, and at least they're trying...
Separate topic here folks -
Anyone losing some faith at the attitude towards the various strands of "austerity measures" around the world?
I certainly don't mean individuals and families that, through no fault of their own. have been hit by unemployment, loss of savings and the like. There is a lot of good, decent, hardworking people out there, usually in the poorest of areas, who get regularly shafted every single time by government and bureaucracy. It's pretty plain to see that the Banks and Corporations behave in the most appalling way, one foot (or usually too) in the machinations of power and decision making. We don't know the half of it. Bilderberg Group anyone?
However, don't you think a whole heap of responsibility needs to fall on the shoulders of individuals too? People seem mighty quick to blame the Banks and so forth, but i do believe that no one was forcing you to spend above your means; to take out huge loans, in many cases simply to finance holidays, consumer goods, the latest phone, a car, widescreen tv etc.
Human beings in the last forty years or so have expected higher and higher levels of "basic comfort". The barest minimum, simply HAS to be a phone for each family member, a large entertainment system, computer, cigarettes, alcohol, a vacation once a year, high street fashion.
Has anyone stopped to think, maybe we're going to have to do without certain "pleasures"? Goddamit, i don't think i can afford to smoke at the moment. Son, you don't NEED those latest sneakers.
Of course i do understand to a certain degree; as life's pressures get harder and harder, an "escape" is one form or another is particularly welcomed to deal with the stress. This post isn't setting out to mock anyone. Education is the key here. You can blame someone who is taught a certain way from childhood for acting in a certain fashion. We're all guilty to some degree.
But we can't just continue "progressing", without taking a step back and re-evaluating. It's like dealing with human's greed for energy by spending millions on new ways of generating it; look at the disaster(s) that Nuclear has dealt us. (And i'm not sure that Germany's knee-jerk reaction to turning it's back on nuclear fuel, however well-intentioned, is really the answer. In order to fulfill their energy demands, it looks like they'll have to rely on sources from other countries, some of which will still be via nuclear power. Go figure).
Has anyone thought, "maybe we should just use LESS?" Call me a naive simpleton here!! We can't continue in this fashion. Times have changed.
My wife and I (who is Japanese) are to be relocating to Japan this year. Don't get me wrong, Tokyo is fascinating (for a brief visit); an astonishing city, but all that neon, that ENERGY...is it really necessary? Vegas, London, any big city. CAN we ever turn back, spitting in the face of common sense or not?
This renewable, greener energy is a tricky concept. Lots of conflicting opinions; wind farms are a great source on one hand; when fixed to the ocean floor, studies have found that the concrete posts are encouraging species that usually wouldn't exist in those areas to use it as their habitat, therefore becoming feed for other marine life and in turn becoming.. and on and on.....
On the other hand are they really that effective as an energy provider? (personally the issue of "eyesore" and "noise" is not really much of a discussion. If people do insist on maintaining what they see as their "right" to as much energy as their heart desires, then there are going to be sacrifices needed somewhere).
But returning to the theme of money, i believe people are just going to have to scale down; we don't really need all this clutter. You can make your food last for longer. We don't need plastic packaging. Using our own two feet is a perfectly acceptable mode of transport. Traditional means of music making and distribution are in drastic need of change.
With all due respect to some of these bands out there, how much energy is a Phish tour using? (not picking on Phish here, folks, applies to any touring musicians on a theatre and upwards venue scale. In fact smaller than that too). I know they work hard on environmental issues and their "footprint" but are those lights, a spectacle for sure, really necessary in 2011?
I know, i know, real hard to picture without our favourite bands; almost impossible to comprehend, but somehow, sometime, preferably soon, we need to make a HUGE shift in our attitude towards the planet.
Thinking small-scale i believe to be the way forward. We must practice what's in our hearts and effect change through example. Gently, responsibly and with humble conviction. I do think that we can sometimes get carried away looking at the larger picture, thereby turning off more people than turning on. No one wants to be talked AT. We don't have to adopt a "lifestyle choice", with all that heavy and egotistical baggage that comes with it (the person who just loves to introduce himself as a vegetarian at every opportunity instead of going about his business with quiet, modest sincerity).
Look at the Sea Shepherd? A whole lot of pride and ego on display there; hearts in the right place or not, some of them are undoubtedly pricks, chasing headlines. Calm common sense the only answer. (Does the Captain know that it was the US who encouraged the Japanese to hunt whales for food, as a cheap source of protein, nutrition etc.? I don't condone the killing of whales either, necessarily, but you can't expect people to change their methods overnight. It ain't that simple. Goes back generations. And once you start attacking other human beings your argument is null and void).
And no, i'm not some tree hugging crusty; i'm not out to preach and point fingers. I do my own damage, certainly, although i'm trying. But just getting the debate out there. Anyone any thoughts on this? Does anyone care?
idiot
That should've been "CAN'T blame someone who is taught a certain way...."!!!
interesting thought process jonapi
and sort of ties into a conversation I was having with a friend last night. First the background info. My son was working on a research paper/speech presentation for school, about the history of the printed newspaper in Germany. (please forgive this traipse into personal stuff-but you will see why in a moment)
He was having alot of trouble focusing on his research and work, even though he was sitting in front of the computer, searching for his facts and information. I explained to him how I used to research papers for school-including searching the card catalog in the library, walking to the shelves to get the books, etc. Told him how his search mechanics were alot more concise and precise, and less time-consuming.
And then I was talking to my friend about how I have noticed a lack of attention span, follow through, and motivation for things that are not fun; in my own house. We were trying to figure out why this could be (she has similar issues with her son) Puberty? Growing up in the age of convenience and instant gratification? Our own lack of discipline and good example? All of the above? My son also seems to have less respect for the objects he DOES own, and consider them to be easily replaceable.
I do think that (much as I also enjoy mod cons) besides creating a huge trash and energy problem, we are also breeding a generation that is instant gratification driven, which could be dangerous. Almost like global ADS. Thus how can people who don't know different, and have a short attention span, even conceive of long-term risks and further planet damage, when it's all about RIGHT NOW, and that's all they know??
That being said-my other kid is not like that, so...
I dunno.
**********************************
I am not young enough to know everything.
Oscar Wilde
rant away
I am just so glad Gonzo has found a sparring partner at last! Makes for entertaining reading.
There used to be others who used to publish diatribes on here but some got chased off for troll behaviour (mention no names) and some got lazy (=me for example).
No easy answer
Jonapi, your points regarding consumerism are well made. I was a Financial adviser prior to retirement and frequently came across people who had large debts and didn't know what some of their payments were for. The worst I recall was one individual who was paying £375 ($580) pm with 15 years of payments to go and when I asked what they had bought was told odds and ends!!!£67500 ($104625) on odds and ends, the mind truly boggles!! Within the room we were sitting there were two expensive gaming pc's and 2 imacs with SIX mobile phones charging and this was a family of three!I personally have tried to cut down on energy, don't put the heating on unless really necessary, walking instead of taking the car etc. On the other hand however I look round the room I am in now at the 3500 c.d's the 300 LP's I still own the DVD's and the shelves of books and ask myself I am I doing enough. Bearing in mind I was brought up in a generation which was probably the first to have a chance to "have it all", the Baby Boomers, and also probably the last generation to have had little to begin with (outside toilets anyone!) perhaps it is us who have created the initial problem.
Perhaps we are just realising that we took the first steps to excesses and only since the advent of the throw away society do we now realise what we started. Arguably our generation is still doing it, who is it that shouts for the 72 disc box sets or complete DVD Box sets of every band we like? Yes I am guilty as charged of the above as well I've ordered every Dead box, every Neil Young, Beatles etc etc. I argue with myself that as I don't smoke or drink I need to spend my money on something, but do I? I don't know I just know that like most people I will continue to buy all this stuff because that is what i do.
I then feel all the above makes it difficult to criticize others for their perceived wastefulness, but I still do.
I just think that the fishbowl of our own little lives sometimes makes it really difficult to be truly objective as we all are the cause of the problem.
Do I want to use less power when it comes to having to cut down on my listening time or viewing time? No. Do I want Nuclear power on my door step? No. Do I want wind farms on my doorstep? Well actually I don't mind them and in a way I find watching them soothing and certainly prefer them to overhead electricity cables stretching for miles across the country. Perhaps we are lucky in Scotland as our wind farms seem to be less obtrusive than those in other countries or perhaps it is my imagination.
So after all that twaddle and gibberish I suppose my answer is the same as the question there is for me no easy answer.
I love to go clubbing. But if there's no seals around......
I think you're absolutely right TigerLilly, which is why we have to be careful in our approach to change.I am fully aware that my post above could be seen as self-righteous, but i do not mean it that way in ANY sense; i am guilty too. We all are. I'm a product to a certain extent of the generation i was born into (early '70's). Everyone is on their own path and will find a way in their own time. Some learn to abandon materialism when they're 12 years old, others when they're 40, some never will. Not for me to get angry and chastise.
What it must be like to be a teenager now boggles the mind. Too many choices can leave you in an endless sea of possibilities, adrift without any sense of direction. My generation were spoilt. Luckily, our family didn't have loads of money; my parents saved modestly, our holidays, if we could afford them were UK based, not abroad (with two exceptions). It used to take me months to afford a record or a magazine, apart from birthdays. No internet in those days, no Cds. You had to work to make discoveries.
But that's okay; the progression we have made in technology and medical science and more is astonishing. Therefore, we need to use it responsibly.
It's like we've lost any ability to actually THINK!! We see politicians or heads of companies or bankers or whoever that can't seem to communicate like normal people. The dreaded "management speak". Evasiveness. Empty talk for the hell of it. Therapists or psychologists are considered a natural remedy for any slight loss of confidence or stress. What happened to friends? To helpful advice from concerned relatives? (True, not everyone has this kind of help, so again, no offense or disrespect. We have created a neurotic, needy society so fair play. And of course, some people's problems are horrific). It's all me me me. No time for others, we have our own shit to deal with.
But a lot people aren't as stupid as some in authority would have us believe. People are tired of being lied to and manipulated. That is when so much anger and confusion starts to manifest. There seems to be a unilateral approach to looking for the most complicated means of solving a problem. It can be a lot easier than that.
But it takes money, compassion and time, and those things are in short supply. It takes a loosening of the grip on one's own interest. Too much at stake i suppose.
Kind of a wee tangent here but, makes me think of the film The Cove. Absolutely appalling scenes, unbearable. Made my soul WRETCH. There is no excuse for that kind of cruelty.
But surely, common sense could help shape change. Simply banning the hunting outright is pointless. How do these people make a living? Whether we disagree ethically with killing dolphins is a whole other matter (if you meat....); although it wouldn't take much to take their lives humanely. If we can do it for other animals then surely, in this day and age, removing cruelness and stress from the means of dispatching these creatures is easily attainable.
But i digress.
Isn't it possible that the Japanese Government could follow the example of various reserves in Africa and employ these hunters in a scientific capacity or in the tourism industry? Like they did with poachers? They obviously know a lot about dolphins, so why not harness their knowledge in a positive way? Taiji is known as a "dolphin town" so why not exploit that? You can't expect to cut it out completely and then say "you're on your own"; how would them and their families survive? It needs common sense, good old fashioned.
I know there are many factors involved; the Japanese are fed up with the amount of control the US has over the country and do NOT want to be told what to do out of sheer bloody-mindedness. Fair enough.
But it IS solvable. Too much to ask? Rationality takes another hike.
I know this isn't what i originally talked about but the brain has a capacity to go a bit "Neal Cassidy", carrying on multiple conversations (mostly imaginary), with multiple points of view, too many thought processes, not enough time!! If it typed it as it entered my brain it would be even more jumbled. My head a permanent jumpcut!
As you can probably tell, i don't really have any firm answers!! Compassion, our innate knowledge of interconnectedness that we have sadly buried, (but innate nonetheless!!) and the use of natural teaching plants should put us on the right path.
We must remain open to others, through good times and the bad. Only takes five fingers and a palm to hold someone's hand. (that and a wrist. oh, and an arm, don't forget that shoulder now. oh shit...).
As much as it irritated me (and irritates me still, slightly) the decision to pull downloads of Grateful Dead soundboards from archive.org, it does have a righteous meaning; Bob was right. Internet and audio files are all well and dandy but it removes the human interaction on a physical plane. Tapes were exchanged, joints passed, hands touched, friendships forged.
Who knows what the answer is? Not me. As you can tell.
But it can be fun to find out.
Check out this for some spiritual nourishment of anyone cares to. Tissues at the ready, but you'll be a better person for watching it -
Children Full Of Life" -
Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=armP8TfS9Is
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc7S8HAfDzk&feature=related
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd7YWx7idfE&feature=related
Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEW65OKRiAk&feature=related
Part 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FGdXEBcdh4
Thanks everyone.
What the problem with trainspotters? i counted 27 of the losers
Glad to see we both used the words "mind" and boggle" in our posts, riggsjr!! I was constructing my incoherent babble before reading your response! Great minds etc.Seems to be a little European infiltration in this topic; me from London, riggsjr from Scotland, cosmicbadger at large in the United Kingdom somewhere (according to the police register...).
I say we take this opportunity to slag off America while we're here. Lets start with Chicago...........(tee hee TL, tee hee...!!).
But agree with everything you said riggsjr. I'm likely taking out my own frustration, as much as anything else, due to my own inability to change my ways to a high standard, even though i know in my heart what's right.
But i'm getting better, bit by bit. That's all you can ask i guess.
Your opinions are most welcome here Jonapi -- I agree!
You are not alone in your opinion about "small is better". Others here have expressed the same opinion -- myself at least ten times (I've ceased to harp on the issue). I believe that most people agree but can't be bothered to do it or say they support it.
While Japan is not particularly into conspicuous consumption they, too, tend to go more overboard than Lady Gaga on fashion. Fashion! What a useless thing to spend money on! Unless you're planning to attend Burning Man I guess, a performance art festival held in the desert of Nevada where anything goes.
The main problem underlying everything is the rise of the middle-class in India and China. They like to consume as much as Americans does. The sad truth is that 1st world nations will not concede an iota of consumption and nor will any 2nd or 3rd world countries who are growing exponentially (there might be an exception I know nothing of in the EU).
As far as blaming people, I would say 90% we aren't responsible. Why? Advertising. It's down to a science and drives consumer spending. The sad truth is that we are brainwashed by people in the Advert industry who have done many, many scientific studies (talk about another waste of money!) that proof out their worth. This would include saturation advertising (you see the same commercial more than 50x in one program like a golf tournament). Then there is the 25 decibel spread between the movie you're watching and the commercial. It's freaking obnoxious! I'm curious... does TV work the same way in Europe and Asia? So, if we are convinced that cigarettes are a better option than food and clothes for our kids, then we are partly excused by the ape-like side of our mentality. And the fact that we just won't turn off our personal media devices.
TigerL; Kids today ARE more into instant gratification but they seem more capable to multi-task with electronic devices and get what they want. The bad news for baby-boomers? We fail the test every time on being more effective at multi-tasking. Our effectiveness rate actually goes down. The line seems to be drawn at about 25-30 years old. Scary, isn't it?
I imagine many people say "Well, that may be true, BUT, it certainly doesn't apply to ME!"
Yeah? Did you know there is an underground internet on the net where you can order anything you want? Sort of like the black market E-Bay. Think I'll go there right now and get some shopping done.... I need a new liver and some blotter. (Dark humor with demonic Russian laughter in the background).
Don't like the current trends? Stand up and be counted! You can march under the black flag or the peace symbol in Chicago next year for the NATO summit & the G-8. Communes are currently being formed. Hint: Gandhians like me tend to be the ones without body piercings and tattoos.
~ You can get anything you want at Alice's restaurant ~
fire wheel burning in the air
Thanks everyone for the comments.I will reply in more detail (you'll be pleased to hear!!) next week. Am signing out until Tuesday.
Not sure if its the sudden change in weather, the blue skies and sunshine turning to mildly oppressive grey clouds; coupled with my Uncle's upcoming funeral on Monday, a wonderful old bean taken much too soon; sudden heart attack with no prior history, leaving behind a great family including young grandchildren that adored him.
But a feeling of melancholy and sadness drifting into my bones. I'm more than happy to have a joke, maybe a cheap one sometimes (!!), but would hate for my name to become synonymous with empty posts, rants that go nowhere and drip off other users like water off a ducks feathery back.
I do care, and would like to spark others to share their feelings on a range of subjects too. I sure do ramble but like a good Grateful jam, i hope the end result makes up for any meandering that was part of the journey.
Wish me well as another relative leaves the material plane.
Find it ironic...
...that the Democrats have comandeered Reagan's hubris "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?" into their current campaign strategy. Short answer: NO!!!!
Why? Certainly not because of Obama. Because of Obama I'm not broke and jobless. I'm not better off because of the freakin' Repulsivecans and their hackneyed class-war agenda.
To use another bastardized Reaganism: "Read my lips. More new taxes on the richest 20% of all Americans and leave the rest of us the freak alone, especially social entitlement programs like medicare, medicaid, social security, food stamps and AFDC (Aid to Families with Depend3ent Children).
It isn't Obama who is starting class warfare, It is the Republicans. Let us give them a taste in Chicago next year during the Nato Summit and G-8.
July 4th
Something worth celebrating for real patriots. Have a great weekend everybody!
I did a lot of highway traveling last weekend and didn't see one speed-trap. They are all getting overtime this weekend. Buckle-up and turn off your electronic devices and turn up the music!!! They'll be out in force starting today....
Case against Strauss Kahn
seems to be crumbling. Now why am I not surprised! *********************************
I am not young enough to know everything.
Oscar Wilde
Such a sobering,
Nay, chilling possibility, to find oneself on the receiving end of a "he said/she said" (or vice versa) lie, especially when that lie appears credible from the get-go. Life permanently damaged, if not in ruins, it often matters little that you are innocent, it matters only that you are accused. Such an accusation against someone without enough money to mount a vigorous defense -- good luck EVER proving that you are innocent.
We'll see how the S-K matter plays out, but your original comment on this, TL, seemed a little far-fetched to me at the time. Now, not so much.
;-) far-fetched!
I don't go hunting conspiracy theories, Dean. The friend who first brought it to my attention that this could be a fishy case laid out some very reasonable and well thought out points-from an economics perspective. What losing SK from the IMF would mean, how he was a thorn in the side of Sarkozy the Slimerat, even the US administration etc. :)
**********************************
I am not young enough to know everything.
Oscar Wilde
Perhaps
If people weren't so ready to buy into character assassination without first doing a little due diligence on the assassin's character the world might be a less hostile place.
Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
AMEN
Piddles! Believe what you want about SK-but never forget that he has lost his carreer, been tried and slain in the media-BEFORE there has been any legal trial. I always was taught that is wrong!**********************************
I am not young enough to know everything.
Oscar Wilde
Wouldn't it be funny.....
if everyone lived by some of the ideals that are found in the Bible...ya know, love thy neighbor, love your enemies, turn the other cheek...all that silly, ridiculous stuff....
johnman
then we'd think we live in heaven! **********************************
I am not young enough to know everything.
Oscar Wilde
If you get arrested
You must be guilty. Isn't that the way it works? That does scare the crap out of me, having had a couple of close calls in that department, having also been innocent of the charges. Worst, being dragged into a police station for armed robbery, having been identified by the victim when I walked through the door. He later realized that I was much too short to have been the perp (first time in my life that I was ever thankful for being below average height, and here y'all probably were thinking that I'm 6 ft something).
Given that false IDs can even happen to a skinny short white kid from the burbs like me, I'm usually skeptical about eyewitness testimony, especially in high-stress situations...which is to say, most violent crimes.
Still, Ms Lilly, your conspiracy theory DID seem a little movie-ish far-fetched at the time. Rest assured, I'll never, ever doubt you again ;)
never doubting me
is more far-fetched than my Strauss Kahn conspiracy theory! ;-)**********************************
I am not young enough to know everything.
Oscar Wilde
Just when
You have me believing in your omniscience, now you're going to punk out on me? Say it ain't so!
it ain't so
but I do enjoy a factual debate, almost as much as being omniscient (sp??)**********************************
I am not young enough to know everything.
Oscar Wilde
Victim or the crime?
It is an undisputed fact that something very sordid did go on in that hotel room that should not have happened. It may have been wrong to pass judgement on DSK so quickly, but that is no reason instantly to vilify orhis accuser, who has also had her life dissected by the press and highly paid lawyers.
Is this woman not to be believed because she has told lies in the past? Which of us would stand up that kind of scrutiny? Is she not to be believed because she changed her story, having been so suddenly thrust into the spotlight and subject to intense questioning? How do we know how we would react? Is she not to believed because she made some bad decisions in the hour after she said she was attacked? Which of us could think straight after such an ordeal? Is she not to be believed because she has a sexual history? Hmmm.
The Bible also says some silly stuff about those without sin casting the first stones.
It looks like DSK may get off the hook on this, but that is no reason to assume he is innocent in this matter. Destroying the character of rape victims is the classic way to get off, especially if you have an unlimited budget for investigating the accuser. . No wonder so many women do not report this crime.
In the USA 1 in 6 women have been subject to rape or serious sexual assault
55% of cases are reported to Law enforcement authorities (in the UK the figure is shockingly less than 25%!)
Between 2% and 8% of reported accusations are thought to be false
The conviction rate of accused rapists is around 20%
Go figure!
and one more thing
If you are looking for conspiracy theories why not ask how much DSK is paying her or various witnesses to sabotage her case?
Personally I do not believe in conspiracy theories..they are all just a plot by the government.;-)
Strange
I've always found it strange that a victim of a "crime" can't be named prior to the trial for legal reasons, but the accused can. I know this is to protect the victim, but what happens when the accusations turn out to be false and someone's life is ripped apart together with the lives of their families, surely this cannot be right. Whether we agree or not these peoples lives are often destroyed for good, with the old "well there must have been something to it" mantra thrown up, and the stigma of the accusation being with them forever.
I do not know if there was a conspiracy in the Strauss Khan case or not, I don't know if the 'victim' was paid off or not, but I do know both scenarios have been played out before many times.
I'm not taking sides here, just saying.
Wish to point out here about DSK...
...that even before TL's post I laid the blame squarely at Sarkozy's door and believe he is still laughing about destroying the character of his opponent for the Presidency of France, or leadership of the IMF, whichever. It was not a rush to judgement, it was an obvious call. CB: The maid's story is not just subject to dissection due to the fact that she was a rape victim. There were unusual transfers of money into her bank account that cannot be explained.
And GD? The scary thing is you ARE presumed guilty in the US upon being arrested, especially if it goes through a grand jury indictment. Even without which, 90% get faced with a plea bargain and a sword hanging over their head with a prosecutor saying: "Take the deal. If you make us go through the expense of a jury trial you'll get the full sentence without any chance of parole.
I have seen this justice system destroy the life of a friend who stole a pack of cigarettes and then held the clerk at bay with a spork. He got ten years and served out every day in a prison in NC. He was gang-raped and developed Hep C. and Crohn's disease. Consider yourself lucky you are short.
A lot of what I just said about the American justice system is the reason that certain of the Grateful Dead family rolled and gave up other deadheads, who then gave up other deadheads for the distribution of party favors.
~ The sheriff's on my trail
And if he catches up with me
I'll spend my life in jail ~
(New Riders of the Purple Sage
"Friend Of The Devil")
All of which
I believe proves my point. In the US, there is supposed to be a presumption of innocence until guilt is proven. Everyone knows this, but few actually walk the walk, including the practitioners in the system. There should be no rush to judgment, either way, in any issue of contention whether criminal or civil until all the facts pertinent to the matter can be exposed and thoroughly examined by dispassionate, disinterested third parties. That's the way it's supposed to be. Too bad it doesn't actually work that way. Maybe if more people starting thinking that they had a vested interest in the system working, it just might.
Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
anonymity
In France DSK would have had a right to anonymity as an accused rapist. In the UK the new coalition government promised to introduce a right of anonymity for accused rapists but this has now been quietly dropped from their agenda.
Gunshow and Grateful Dead Concert?
Mike Huckabee on Ron Paul
http://www.nbc.com/the-tonight-show//video/Mike-Huckabee-on-Ron-Paul-%2…
Badger has a very good point!
No matter what the outcome or facts really are, no matter how you look at it, this woman is a victim. And it could be that this case sets women accusing prominant or wealthy people of sexual assault back into the dark ages. That worries me.**********************************
I am not young enough to know everything.
Oscar Wilde
Didn't mean...
there should be a rush to judgement on the maid or a presumption of guilt. After seeing the documentary "The Lost Children of Nepal " on CNN in which it is shown that about 30,000 young women are smuggled each year out of the country into a life of prostitution in Mumbai and Delhi (and most ending up with AIDS) without their knowledge. By young I means as young as 10 years old. They are given hormones to make their bodies develop prematurely.
These women come from a dirt poor country (avg. wage $200 per year) and the ones who are smart enough to know what is happening to them are spending their earnings on gold to smuggle back to their own country and give to their families. Then they die of AIDS within 10 years.
It is heart-wrenching and I certainly agree that women need more, not less, rights when it comes to being rape victims. If you want to contribute to a huge home for former prostitutes with AIDS in Nepal founded and supported by Demi Moore, Google Maiti Nepal if you wish to learn more and make a contribution.
for a foundation
that's doing interesting work basically diverting girls from that path one at a time:http://www.nepalyouthfoundation.org/programs/freedom/index.html
just read an article...
about 11.2 Billion dollars worth of gold and silver jewlry and precious stones and gems being found in a temple dedicated to Vishnu in India, may they give it all to worthy charities.
Aung San Suu Kyi
At a time when the US celebrates its liberty, please find some time to watch heroic Burmese democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi delivering her first BBC lecture on the nature of freedom.
She is an elected leader, never allowed to govern by the military thugs who run Burma. She has spent years being mistreated in jail, and under house arrest, She has recently been freed and recorded this lecture series in secret. It is likely to get her more jail time.
And she likes the Grateful Dead....Standing on the Moon is her favourite.
The first lecture is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFLiCb359Rs
The second is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rS7zkBu0N0
watch and be humbled and inspired
SBrian
If they found 11.2 billion in gold, silver and precious gems in a temple to Vishnu you can be absoutely sure that AT LEAST 75% of it is gone, looted or paid out in bribes from the Prime Minister of the country on down to the guards of the temple.
I am not cynical about this -- I'm a five time, long-term visitor to that country and the really cynical ones are the people who live there.
What a way to run a country destined to become a powerhouse in the next century.
MR. FOREMAN, HAS THE JURY COME TO A VERDICT?
...in the case State of Florida VS. Casey Anthony?
"Guilty your honor, of 1st degree MURDER of her own child. We have just one more thing to add, your honor, that's GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY on every charge in this indictment!!
After watching not one stinking minute of this sordid affair on television for over a year I just watched 8 hours of the most compelling TV for 9 hours over the last two days -- Closing arguments in the Casey Anthony trial.
For those who don't know, Casey Anthony decided she didn't want to be a Mom anymore, she'd rather be a party girl and used chloroform on her beautiful young (4, Maybe?), young daughter before duct-taping her mouth and nose and putting a smiley sticker on her and dumping her 15 blocks from her parent's home in a swamp in a laundry sack. Bella Vita was a tattoo she then had put behind her left shoulder while she partied hardy till her lies were exposed. The "Beautiful Life" my ass! This is so sick it could only happen in America. All that was missing were pictures of her boyfriend snorting ecstasy off her body.
She might get another trial because her lawyers were more pathetic than she was. At one point producing a picture of a 15 year-old Casey (that the judge did not allow) surrounded by cartoon characters, totally fictitious, made up by Casey during the police investigation, Zanny the Nanny (short for Xanax she must have been snorting?). Her defense had numerous opportunities to introduce pre-trial evidence of sexual abuse by the brother and father of Casey but did not do so. Her consequential actions are like that of small girl whose mental process had stopped maturing after a traumatic event, like sexual abuse.
But, she did what she did and she is likely to become the 3rd ever woman on Florida's death row, as much as I find that distasteful. Life in prison with possibility of parole after 30 years is a more just punishment. I don't believe in the death penalty or that any person is inherently evil. Evil existing from it's own side.
Little Caylee was never given an opportunity to live that long.... If the jury comes back with any lesser verdict and punishment it is a tragedy and a travesty, IMHO.
the dust blows forward and the dust blows back
Root problem or how to pick up the leaves?
None of us know what really happened in Strauss-Kahn case (brace yourself for fresh allegations folks); do i believe Sarkoszy would pay for accusations made to remove a thorn? Absolutely. Do i believe that a wealthy, powerful (in his own head) male would do something so stupid, even at an important moment in his life? Absolutely. Would a maid be tempted by a fistful of dollars (or was it Euros?) for unsatisfying, empty sex only to have a change of mind at the last minute? Sure. Would a man do whatever he wants, using a woman knowing that he can buy his way out if the shit hits the fan? Sure.
Justice is one strange beast. Having participated in jury service in London, it beggars belief how farcical the system can be. The bureaucracy, red tape, time wasting and general incompetence of the courtroom is staggering. Laughable and frustrating in about equal measures.
Lawyers on both sides grandstanding, smugness abounds, quoting lyrics to current pop songs in a bid to show their hipness to the youth of today. And the jury sitting there, having to take it without jumping up and throttling them; have you seen some of these people you have to do jury service with? Good God...young teenagers who repeatedly turn up late (got to fit in a McDonalds breakfast, right? Why, it just sets you up for the day, doesn't it? Gotta get your energy from somewhere); most of the basic English language flying over their heads with mighty speed. Older, obstinate oxygen thieves who argue for the sheer joy of it, revelling in their pedantic, newfound positions of power! Lunch boxes stolen as a child but NOT today, mama!!
It IS a tricky business though; plainly obvious that this young kid in front of you is guilty, the victim obviously distressed, the eyes telling you everything you need to know. No previous charges, cases and sentences made known to the jury before you decide; the teenager barely containing his growing grin, he's been here many time before and knows how the game works. But, BUT, with no concrete evidence, the decision HAS to be not guilty. Only fair i guess, stops any possible abuses. Only after your judgement do you hear from the narcoleptic judge that he has a history of knife wielding and aggravated assault, including threats against the man once before. Whaddya do?!
As for the "victim or the crime" argument? Well......
Like many other important issues around the planet, it's time to look at the cause of the problem, not the clean up operation in the aftermath.
The continued sexualisation of women and the pathetic macho posturing of men, all deemed entirely normal and natural, will continue to produce such appalling injustices on both sides. Women are guilty of this. Men are guilty of this. And it's usually money, greed and power pulling the strings. An interesting dilemma.
You can't blame some women for taking the easy option. Gets you the lifestyle you crave, right? You can't blame some men for believing this bullshit and treating girls as objects, put on this planet for THEIR benefit. Chicken and the egg.
In the gym there's a TV screen, playing the usual vacuous aural blancmange, one after the other. I'm convinced some of these performing monkeys are a completely different species.
Anyhoo, some act comes on, involving the Head Creature from the Pussycat Dolls; dressed in not that much, it's bikini-time ladies and gentlemen!, grinding away, most of the time the face out of shot, singing about touching her body and look at me me me.
And i wonder, just WHAT is she trying to tell everyone? What does she want? "Come and get me, look at me, feel me, do what ever you want, hang on, not THAT close, don't touch me, HELP, 911, lawyer....".
And the dumb, vain, empty man that follows; leer across his punchable face, would drag his testicles across broken glass to be flattered by an idiot.
Greedy people one and all; men exploiting women, women exploiting women, all exploiting themselves.
We live in strange times alright.
A world where manipulation is key, degradation a justifiable means to an end. Where waving guns, violence, torture and killing is pumped out of the television set and splashed across the cinema screens in the name of entertainment; no thought of the possible influence or the feeding of imagination to the audience.
I saw a documentary on TV about naturism through the ages; interview of a family with the hobby that was passed down through about 4 generations. What did they do? Pixelated the 12 year old daughter's body. What for? Apparently there was absolutely no chance they could possibly show something THAT offensive; could plant seeds of perversion in an ordinary person's mind right? There might be someone watching who's, like, really into it, man!!!!!
But shooting someone in the head? Thats was boss, dude!
How bizarre our attitude to sex and the human body is. Walking around a campsite with no clothes on, why you HEATHEN! Why don't you grind away to a limp bassline and fuck anything that moves.
A sad state of affairs.
Alterable by the knowledge that we are all connected; the Universe as a group mind!!!!!
Tolerance, respect, understanding, compassion, true spiritual empathy, music, laughter and love.
Just not for the Pussycat Dolls.
Jury duty
jonapi, I too had to do jury duty a number of years ago. Two guys sticking a knife in people's faces then taking their wallets and in one case the guys jacket. Their "lawyer" was asking those who had been assaulted, 'are you sure you weren't drunk and lost your wallet?', ' perhaps you sold your jacket for taxi money', ' how much had you been drinking?' ' why were you walking alone?' (that one killed me, you walk alone so you deserve to be mugged!') All through this the two misfits are sitting laughing and sneering at the witness's discomfort and fear.After lunch the prosecuting attorney sticks in a CCTV DVD showing the two guys clearly taking a guys wallet from him emptying it then throwing it into the street, then chasing a taxi driver who stops to see what is going on. At this point, I kid you not, one of the defendants bursts into tears and utters the immortal lines "It wasn't me it was him, he made me do it"
The 'lawyer' looked at his clients whispered something then asked if they could change their plea to guilty.
The jury was then dismissed and two thirds of a day had been wasted so that two neanderthals could get a slap on the wrist and told not to be naughty again or they would have to stand in the bad boys corner. (I jest of course, but bet they didn't get much more.)
I often feel that the more crimes some individuals commit the lesser the sentence they are given as if they have clogged up the prison system enough and it is time to give someone else turn.
Whilst I would never call for the type of punishment we hear about in the middle and far east, I do feel that we in the U.K have become too lenient with crime, particularly with repeat offenders.
One doesn't want to see people who have made a mistake in their lives or committed a minor first offence be put away for years but equally we too often see real criminals treated with kid gloves and told the only way to change them is to rehabilitate them, when this has clearly been tried previously.
Let those who abuse their power and use their position to commit crime, in its many guises, be punished equally as hard as the working chump who makes one error in life. Let justice be seen to have been dealt in an even way, ensuring all are penalised no matter what their background, wealth or educational differences are.
This last bit is not aimed at SK, which is looking more like a stitch up the more you read.
Thanks for reading my rambling.