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    marye
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    Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

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  • #2351
    JimInMD
    Joined:
    GFar

    You are kind soul.. I appreciate all you provide here. Same goes to Oro. I think it would take a face to face to catch me up on all the technology (old or new) that the two of you bring for me to truly understand. As for old.. and I am sure you both know.. in either late 73 or early 74 (I think 73).. the GD got into a scuffle with DOD over equipment they were ordering that was desperately needed for national security. Apparently, the Macintosh amps they were buying in unprecedented numbers were needed both in general and more specifically by special, top secret subs that needed the clean sound and amplification to either detect enemy interference or better hear and make stealth the noise they were making. So they called the GD and tried to work out a way to either stall, postpone or barter a purchasing arrangement that would not jeopardize national security.

    I think this is well known, and I apologize in advance for going on memory and surely confusing some of the information listed above as fact. ..but what is written is pretty close, if someone can clarify and correct it would not offend me in the least.

    Hope I didn't write anything that was incorrect or in any way interpreted as insulting or offensive.

    As for chainsaws and sawzaws to clear way for our living room WOS.. what could possibly be more fun.

  • #2352
    Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Sawzaw

    Ah the sounds of my earliest fun dentist. "You dont need no gas!"

    All my stereo stuff is old, always fussy. Running all old Yamaha into JBL (plus svs). Trying to get stuff cleaned and parts replaced. When it is on, it is quite the stereo indeed. I have an old yamaha eq that I hooked up when Dave's first show was released. Goes into Pre amp, then to a yamaha mx-830. The MX-830 is powering 4 jbl g300's and 2 jbl LX 600's. Running 6 speakers means the amp is running at 550 watts at 2 ohms. It cooks. The speakers all have same tweeters and mid ranges. The 300s run 8" woofers and the 600s have 10 inch woofers. It is old but as you say "in budget." Smile.

    edit:
    Then the svs has a 550 watt continous, 850 watt peak sledge. The svs I picked up a few years back for $399. I had to have a sub with an internal crossover. So out of preamp to svs (rca cables), then back into the preamp, then to amp. Having old yamaha means older connection points. Modern amps control the crossover themself and pump sub out already crossed over. I happen to run my internal sub amp at a cutoff of 82 hz. George Lucas uses 80 hz crossover in his THX sound systems. So I am slightly above that. I did some sampling of the room using the preamp features.

    G

  • #2353
    JimInMD
    Joined:
    Do you have any '74 Dijon?

    Neanderthal's use chain saws.. a sophisticated audiophile attacks their living rooms delicately with a sawzaw.

    I'm totally jealous.. I am blasting with my 20 year old Denon, similar age speakers with no intents on upgrading anytime soon. Budgets be budgets..

  • #2354
    Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Yeah

    Can you imagine writing the real equipment book? With the constant upgrading of the system, that book would be multiple enormous volumes. Hope the Meyers have logged a lot of their research.

    No 18's here. Of course not needed.

    Back last year, Oro, you asked if I was running multiple subs. I am not. I have a 12" SVS Systems sub with built in Sledge D amp. It is like the rabbit, it is a thumper. Goes down to 13 or 15hz, so below the 20hz of human hearing. That is, if all memories about frequency response are still good. Starting to get the old enough to question my own thoughts at times.

    I am still hoping for the day when we can listen to WoS through a system that takes us to the "Fare the Well" P.A.. Would have to be software based, but I look at it like 4K upcoding an HDTV signal.

    Wow, FTW PA is now 7 years ago. Bet the Meyers' have gone way beyond that. I almost applied for a job at Meyer 7 years ago. Was in my career field. POTHead.

    That 2015 system had multiple flying 18's. It also had a load balancing system. This was done by having 2 systems, intake and outake. That is, they had 100 microphones throughout the stadium to push into the analytics software. Of course, the output systems was not connected except thru analytics, to the input system to avoid feedback. Brilliant. The analytic input system could then be used to balance the PA by section of the of the stadium.

    Sorry for interruption but I wanted find the article on pro sound web about 2015 FTW PA.

    I did actually find it, but not by searching pro sound web, but by searching internet at large and it found it on the pro sound web site, even though pro sound web could not find it in its own search.

    Let me know, maybe I can send lynk thru PM here, not sure if they cut that off.

    Any way need to do a little work after lunch. I mean a little work.

    G

  • #2355
    Oroborous
    Joined:
    Ha

    That’s what chain saws are for!

    Gary, I think besides trying to keep up with Garcia, Phil was using that big system on stage to help fill in those near field areas (up front etc) we were discussing, the areas that didn’t get proper coverage from the PA?
    What some refer to as the Phil Zone, though to me that’s was where both his stage sound and the PA sound merged and acoustically coupled.
    But yeah, My spine tingles and can still feel rather than hear those sub frequencies in my DNA. (By sub I mean below the threshold of hearing, not a subwoofer). Those Meyers 18”s in the PA were ridiculous in the right spot, in the right venue etc.
    Plus, it’s the Grateful Fucking Dead so why not go big!

    PS, that Grateful Dead gear book is great, though a little dialed down.

  • #2356
    JimInMD
    Joined:
    I want what Phil's having...

    Home version. 18"'s and 4"'s. If I move some things around, they should fit.

  • #2357
    Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Oro

    thanks for the write-up, input. Need a little time to read again and ponder. Think again we are speaking the same language but as 90% of communication is non verbal, some times the written language let's us down.

    It seems I have the dead's equipment book, need to track that down. Not necessarily for this discussion but just to find it again...

    Should have figured Phil would use Meyer systems. Using 18's onstage, wow!

    Hope all well your way!

    G

  • #2358
    Oroborous
    Joined:
    Phil’s Rig

    As of late 82 or early 83 Phil was using 4 Meyers cabinets: (4 -18”, 4 -15”), 2 per cabinet powered by custom PIE amps, until they started not using speakers on stage in 92. (Which I didn’t like).

    Not sure I get all what your saying? I agree that Soundboards do not sound natural for many reasons.
    Perhaps your referring to the phenomena of Microphones not having frequency response to accurately record bass waves combing sub sonic frequencies at those kind of SPL levels?
    Mic location can also make a big difference and was partly why Dan started the tapers section. Unless you have the right knowledge and equipment chances are a recording made too close will mot sound good.
    Plus you have the physics: the lower the frequency, the longer the sound wave. If your too close you’ll not hear the fully formed bass note etc.
    In fact if your too close much of the PA sound will blow right by you. You’ll also not properly experience stereo imaging. That’s why usually, the sound board or just before it was THE place to be. It was a trade off going up front: yeah you were up close and could see and hear their stage sound, but the PA mix was so above and beyond you that you missed a lot of info. Eventually they added little Meyers boxes, usually sitting on the front of the stage to add some vocals etc for those up close.
    Nothing comes for free! Personally, like Bear, I didn’t like the stereo set up because of this. Unless you were in the right spot, you missed a lot of info, especially if you were sitting on the side!
    This was the main reason Reserved seating sucked: nobody could sit where they wanted so if you were a sound nut like us, you often had to endure less than perfect sound/mixes.

  • #2359
    Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Fall Out from the Phil Zone

    I listened to 1988-10-15. Once Friday, Second Saturday. Two different sources although both said the Ultramatrix board, the first was much muddier than the second. Best highlight was the deep garbled voices toward the end of drums. Really bizarre, and reminds me of garbled voices during latter Star Wars during broken transmissions, and reminds me of the fellas ties to Lucas, the lightgiver.

    I was very disappointed in both versions as the show is missing a whole lot of data/music. What I mean by this is, I am wondering if there is fallout from the phil zone? I am positing that as the Phil Zone expanded, Healy lost control of the overall sound. If memory serves at some point it seems I remember maybe Phil using 18" woofers onstage. For sure he was using 15's (plus 12's and 10's). Now I loved my bit of time I spent in the Phil zone, but generally when I got up close, it was Jerry side. As Phil blasts his horn, this means Healy had to bring Phil down in the overall P.A. mix. In my humble opinion, I believe this led to the bad tape sound, lots of data/music missing. When I focus my ears, I can tell that much of the overall lower sound waves are missing or nonexistent. Even worse, the frequencies that are there are very muddled and indiscernible.

    Now as a way to test my theory, I listened to 1988-03-27, Hampton. Another group of shows I saw in 1988. I did see 8 Dead shows there and fully know the quality of the sound that can be obtained within the mothership. (Also saw the shows that make up "Hampton Comes Alive..") When I listened to March 27, the sound is very good. However, although not as bad a St.Pete, there is again a large amount of data/music missing as well. The imaging is excellent but that is because the imaging comes from the higher frequencies. Bass frequencies are much more omni- directional, whereas high frequencies are unidirectional. (Want to press on these concepts furthur, later on. I want to go back to some discussions back in October regarding HDCD.) If my hypothesis is correct, then the tape anomalies concerning extremely muddled low frequencies will test out thru other 1988 shows. Had not heard or noticed this until this past weekend. So for St. Pete, it not only causes Phil to be muddled (deep booming bass with no clarity to individual notes played), it also means some muddleness from other players/instruments. I believe this may be the reason why 1988 recordings may all need matrix recording.

    Just one man's opinion, would like to know what others thought.

    Both Hampton and St. Pete were excellent shows when you factor other aspects than just the quality of the reproduced sound on tape. One reason I love the later shows is because the P.A. quality produces a much more full bodied, across frequencies, sound than do earlier performances. Early performances are fire from perfomance, latter shows have more depth and clarity in the frequency spectrum, hence DaP#40.

    Ok enough for now.

    G

  • #2360
    bob t
    Joined:
    Sandstone Amphitheatre 7/4/90

    I was there.. It was so hot at the start of the show... Close to 100... Really enjoyed the long scarlet>fire popping up in the 4th slot.... Drove straight to Louisville after the show... why oh why.

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Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

Hot Summer Dead

I'm still shaking my head over this 8/14/71 tape, Holy S#!@

Phil & Jerry are just locking in throughout, esp during The Other One & NFA > GDTRFB.

Even the tried and true #s get a work out.

Alright time for the next night.

And young Strider journeys West and was there for both, lucky duck.

Quack! Quack!

Happy Birthday Bob T, since you listened to 8/15 yesterday, my Bday gift to you is 8/14, Enjoy! ;)

BobT: Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy!

Shakedown Stream 6/19/20: does anyone recall what show that was, and was 4/22/20 (6/11/93) the first one?
Can’t seem to source it...I bet GOGD knows!

BOX IDEA: Dane County; Kinda like the Giants box...
2/15/73 (Dark Star, HC Sunshine)
10/25/73 (Dark Star, Mind Left Body, HC Sunshine)
2/3/78 (DPs 18)
2/4/79 (Probably no tapes)
12/3/81(Good set list)
6/24/83 (H,S,F, Dew, good set list)

Ok, so possibly 4 shows...I’m not familiar with the performances of the last 3, but it looks good on paper....

....Big RXR opener. Good sign.
Oroborous with the win. If they don't name it the Grate Dane box with a derpy dog on the cover, opportunity lost.
Edit. 8.14 & 8.15 both have Cumberlands!! Sold!

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Submitted by The Good Ole G… on Sat, 08/15/2020 - 15:39

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Started 4/10 with Truckin’ Up to Buffalo, followed by GD Movie and 6/11/93 on 4/24/20. 6/19/20 was an off week, they did 10 in a row and took that week off.

Nice box idea, I’d like to see 2/9 & 2/15/73 released for sure. Honestly they should release this 8/14/71 show, it’s hot! 8/15 is good too… but I think I like the 14th better. Might have to listen again ;)

Aw Reet!

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Submitted by bluecrow on Sat, 08/15/2020 - 16:12

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Ha!! the Grate Dane box!! sweet!

Always liked the German Shepherd with headphones from Hamburg '72 in the steamer trunk.

2/15 Set II is one of my first tapes, very much loved.

8/14 & 15 need to be released. Wowza.

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Submitted by bob t on Sat, 08/15/2020 - 16:26

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Heading there right now... Can't hear Dane County without thinking of this show... Two Dark Stars in 8 months in Madison Wisconsin in 1973.......... bob t

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Submitted by icecrmcnkd on Sat, 08/15/2020 - 16:27

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Speaking of 2-9,15-73, I did my every 2-3 month visit to bt.etree to check for new/upgraded material (Mr. Charlie has been productive during quarantine) and I believe that those were included in the shows I got.
Also, Alaska ‘80 all three shows as one torrent was there.
Vguy, Sam Boyd 92 was also there.

Didn’t read the fine print on each show to see what has been fixed, or if it is a new source, etc. Will do that later, just grabbing the data now.

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Submitted by bluecrow on Sat, 08/15/2020 - 17:24

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Yes - there was a solid Charlie Miller upgrade to 2-15 in last few months - i was checking it out on the Archive in first day or so after it was uploaded. i think this is the same on relisten. don't do etree but maybe its time for a select few.

https://relisten.net/grateful-dead/1973/02/15?source=223918

1st 2 tracks on this source are from the soundcheck i think.

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Submitted by Oroborous on Sat, 08/15/2020 - 17:26

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GOGD: tanks! I knew you’d know. Forgot they went back that far, and that 6/19 was off......senior moment!

VGUY: The Grate Dane! Perfect, there ya go Rhino, marketing, art, and music....
easy with that fire though, 20K plus rager (Grizzly Creek Fire) parts only about 15 miles upwind as the crow flies....not gonna see the sun from my back door anytime soon! This year just keeps kicking my ass! Pray for rain por favor!

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Submitted by JimInMD on Sat, 08/15/2020 - 19:15

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Holy Crap.. Fire on the Mountain > Looks Like Rain? Just checked this out, looks horrific. Be safe man...

New Years will have special meaning this year.

going through discs and realized it had been years since I'd listened to the Dave's 2012 Bonus Disc from Cap Centre 7/29/74. so that's where I'm at right now. maybe this got covered earlier as a pick and i missed it.

Oro - good luck over there. personally familiar with how freaking dry the SW Colorado mountains are right now. no mushrooms anywhere. scary in terms of fire potential. hoping for some containment on Grizzly and Pine Gulch. lots of smoke drifting in here - probably from California fires but maybe northern Arizona or west of state.

I did this a couple weeks ago.. classic.

What's in store for tomorrow? Still light on work, starting a carpentry project so good long jams are in order..

How about 5/14/74, Dave's Picks #9?

Lost my Mom late last week, it has been a tough time and the virus doesn't help in all aspects.

Be well folks.

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Submitted by JimInMD on Mon, 08/17/2020 - 06:09

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No complaints from me.. Right on time.. heading outside right... now.

Edit: Shit, in my haste to get outside and get some painting done I missed the second half of your post deadvikes. So sorry to hear.. Hang in there man...

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Submitted by bob t on Mon, 08/17/2020 - 07:28

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Sorry to hear about your mom... bob t

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Submitted by Oroborous on Mon, 08/17/2020 - 07:35

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Sorry for your loss! May The four winds blow her safely home...

5/14/74 sounds perfect!

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Submitted by billy the kid on Mon, 08/17/2020 - 08:30

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In sorry for your loss , it's a very sad thing to lose one of your parents.

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Submitted by bob t on Mon, 08/17/2020 - 14:09

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I was so happy when Dave release this one... My in tape trading days i had a very crappy board, but hey it had a Dark Star on it from 74, and it was the only Montana show they did... What i have grown to really like about this show is the NFA>Going Down the Road... give it a listen..... not the longest versions in the world but they smoke!!!! Even get a whew from Weir after the jam in GDTRFB..... alas all is ruined after when Bob get's hit with a homecoming cup, "Thanks a whole hell of a lot," right before the encore..... Good call for today.... bob t

We were bound to have a repeat eventually and perfect pick for repeated listening.

DeadVikes no words do justice, I’m sorry for your loss.

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Submitted by DeadVikes on Mon, 08/17/2020 - 18:54

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Thanks for the kind words Gents, I appreciate it!

GOGD, did we do this one already, shoot, sorry for the repeat, I guess I needed a good Dark Star. And I am with Bob t, the NFA/GDTRFB combo is sweet and One More Saturday Night to finish.
Sound quality is A+. How great was the Wall of Sound.

Are we five months into this BS pandemic already? My God, this has to end soon.

Thanks again guys and stay well.

Ha.. Well, I missed the first one so it was a good repeat for me. I fit in the whole show and kept right on going with 6/16/74 simply because it was the next show in my device.

...and yes, this darkness got to give.

So Dicks Picks 20 tomorrow? Check out the jam in Supplication.. wowow stuff.

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Submitted by DeadVikes on Tue, 08/18/2020 - 07:12

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I am thinking we did Dick's 20 in the Spring, but not 100% sure. GOGD has been tracking it. Let us know.

At any rate, I will check it out. Love 76!

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Submitted by JimInMD on Tue, 08/18/2020 - 09:09

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We might have.. if so, lets try and think up a new one. Where is our official judge, GOGD? Without him in the loop, we are a lawless, woolly bunch.

Edit: Well.. my 4/20/84 just arrived, so that's going to be my outside listen today. Reading the liner notes now. Saw a lot of shows in 84.. I remember how much different Jerry looked than he did in '83, and that habit of staring into the carpet and just shredding it was already well established. Vocals were a problem the whole year. This was about the time we started realizing something was afoot.

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Submitted by DeadVikes on Tue, 08/18/2020 - 10:10

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Jim,

Repeat or not, I am working my way through it. Love this release. I think this is the first 76 release, correct?

A 2001 release and the sound quality is really good. Performances are super September 76 Dead.

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Submitted by The Good Ole G… on Tue, 08/18/2020 - 10:44

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Hi-Ya!

Sorry, Dead.net homepage posts on my Mac aren’t updating in real time, even with refresh, weird.
I guess I have to dig a little deeper. Anybody else get that?

Yep, 5 months of this shiz, started 4/6/20 from what I can tell.
Alright, in regards to shows we did DiP V20 on 4/20/20, and DaP V9 on 5/14/20.
Now I'm just saying that so we know, no biggie doing repeats, in fact, these are all repeats and I do them all all the time ;)

I went down the 1971 rabbit hole after 8/14 & 8/15 and am trying to work my way out, but Fillmore April ’71 is sounding really good and taking me back to my earliest days of hearing the Dead.
(Which in comparison to now, seem like heaven!)

Did 4/29 yesterday, one of my earliest tapes, and am enjoying 4/28 today, So you know where to find me :)

Music Is Good Medicine
Be Well All

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Submitted by bob t on Tue, 08/18/2020 - 13:54

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Just finishing Set I from 11/9/73.... gonna listen to this box the next few days. There are 8 shows from the October 73 and only 1 has been released.10/25 and 10/30 both have Dark Stars on them..... I'm a big fan of Evanston Show especially second set... I like the September tour, but I know a lot of people don't like the Fiero and Ellis shows... nothing has been released from September... There are 10 shows from this month no releases. Got a feeling Dave is saving 9/12/73 William and Mary show for the 50th anniversary of Wake of the Flood.... Thank you for listening to my ramble... bob t

Realized this yesterday as I scrolled through my music player looking for 5-14-74

2-24-74 DaP13
3-23-74% DP24
5-12-74 (not yet released)
5-14-74 DaP9
5-17-74 PNW
5-19-74 PNW
5-21-74 PNW
5-25-74 (not yet released)
6-8-74 (not yet released)
6-16-74% RTv2n3
6-18-74% RTv2n3
6-20-74 (not yet released)
6-22-74% DaP34
6-23-74 DaP34
6-26-74 s2 DP12
6-28-74 s2 DP12
6-30-74 (not yet released)
7-19-74 DaP17
7-21,25,27-74 (not yet released)
7-29-74% DaP2 bonus disc
7-31-74 DaP2
8-4,5,6-74% DP31
9-9,10-74 DP7
9-11,14-74 (not yet released)
9-18-74 30Trips
9-20,21-74 (not yet released)
10-16,17,18,19,20-74% GD Movie soundtrack

I like ‘74!
Let’s fill in the gaps and work towards the whole year being released.

Condolences DV.

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Submitted by Gollum on Tue, 08/18/2020 - 20:09

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Excellent pick. Latvala strikes again!

I think repeat picks should be allowed, or even encouraged. That way, we'll never run out.

I've got the same delayed updating problem, GOGD and have had it a few weeks now.

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Submitted by DeadVikes on Wed, 08/19/2020 - 10:03

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Yes, I am with you on releasing more 74 Conekid. Don't forget 2/22 and 2/23.

Since several of these shows are partial releases, boy, I would not mind if they went back and gave us the complete show. Not sure that would ever happen, but I would buy it.

I pulled out 7/5/78 this morning. It has been a long time since I listened to this show. I know we did the 7/1/78 show on the Anniversary date. I don't listen to this box that much anymore and I should, great shows and super sound quality.

Everybody hang loose.

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Submitted by icecrmcnkd on Wed, 08/19/2020 - 16:01

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10/74 Winterland Complete, audio and video.
Bring it on Dave.

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Submitted by DeadVikes on Thu, 08/20/2020 - 05:56

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Thanks for the link on the last show at the Greek. Thought this might make a good pick of the day so I checked out Relisten and the archive. The only option I could find was one and it was a feed from Bob Weir's guitar. And that was literally all it was just his guitar playing. I like Bob Weir and all, but listening to just his guitar for a full show is not going to do it for me.
Who has a pick for us today?

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Submitted by wilfredtjones on Thu, 08/20/2020 - 06:04

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"Is it not written in thee sky?" :-)

Today is August 20 and I am beginning to think there will not be another box set released this year. Not really sure what Dave was referring to when he spoke about other big things needing their own space to breathe later in the year meant? I know we have AB, but that can't be it.
Also, have they ever had a box set announcement past August 1?

Are usual clue tellers are silent.

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Submitted by JimInMD on Thu, 08/20/2020 - 13:03

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Nostradeadmus predicts American Beauty 50th either released on 11/1/2020 or announced that day if they are unable to pull it off because of covid.

I think we are getting one more this year.

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Submitted by wilfredtjones on Thu, 08/20/2020 - 13:26

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Went with DP18 today. We've listened to this one before right? Anyway, ready for Englishtown any time now. Wish there was more video. Saw some of it recently first for I think the first time. Wonder how much (if any) footage there remains left. What's been out there has been seen already before, right? I'll have to check my Dead base. :-)

Happy rest of summer, all... :-) :-) :-)

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Submitted by icecrmcnkd on Thu, 08/20/2020 - 16:29

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Dave made that 76 Box video before the world got turned upside in, downside out.
I don’t think that there is a rule about when an announcement needs to be made.
I’m holding out for another Box, whether it’s a stand alone or part of AB-50th. There’s really no reason to announce it way in advance, just announce it when it’s available for sale and start shipping the same day.

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Submitted by Strider 808808 on Fri, 08/21/2020 - 16:14

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I see that Jambase posted a loose knit announcement yesterday for the final edition of Shakedown Stream to take place next Thursday August 27th. I’m surprised that the August 2020 Grateful Dead bulletin did not include a notice there of. I will say rest assured dear readers that official announcement would see the light of day maybe Monday or perhaps Tuesday at the latest. Something tells me that the pre-show with Dave and Gary has some special guest sure to make a long and lasting impression upon the impressionable and the not so easily impressed alike. So soon, very soon I expect to hear the drum roll, Rolling Thunder!!⛈⚡️⛈