• 8,100 replies
    marye
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    Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

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  • JimInMD
    Joined:
    2007 - 2009 Stand Alone Releases

    Ha.. my guess, they needed money.

    I doubt if any of this needs to be that formal. Consensus is probably enough. A day of rest and reflection. Seems norml enough to me.

    I missed 5/15/70 which was a biggie for me, and we never got around to 11/8/69 yet. I will be doing extra stimulus for both of those.. :D

  • DeadVikes
    Joined:
    Catch Up Day

    Seems like a good idea Jim. The only way I am able to do this is I am still working at home.

    And I don't think we can all make every show, although, I have tried. Some days I have to finish in the morning the next day.

    However, the leader of this pack, Bolo, and the rest of the crew would have to give it the Thumbs Up.

    And I am interested in your take on To Terrapin....

    Still wonder what was going on back in 2007 to 2009 that they released some unreal stand alone shows.

    Would love to see some more pop up again.

  • JimInMD
    Joined:
    Format

    How about leaving a random day, perhaps Sunday, as a day to revisit that show you missed but wanted to hit and talk about or any of the other show you were behind on? A day of peace and re-visitation/re-visualation.. A chance for the slackers to peek in on a show from a few days ago they squeezed in a day or three late.

    Is something like that reasonable?

    A day in support of the under achievers.

    I remember when E72 came out.. I think in the fall, but I more or less started on 4/7 and struggled to keep up with the anniversary dates. Hearing the post from deadheadbrewer finally pulled me out of the closet. I can do a show every two to three days unless I have time carved out, without distractions, cell phones and it helps if I am able to indulge in a bit off external stimuli, especially the kind that warps space and time. Just saying...

    In other words, I missed To Terrapin and am beating myself up about it. Heaven help the fool.

  • DeadVikes
    Joined:
    5/28/77 To Terrapin

    I love this show. The sound quality to my ears is one of the best 77 releases to date. Jerry just seems to really be on fire the entire show. Kills it on Bertha, Sugaree is so good. New Minglewood Blues is a top 5 for me and the Brown Eyed Women is another high energy version. The Playing in the Band into Terrapin is hot. And the finish, NFA through US Blues is stellar.

    I don't think this release gets a lot of talk, but it should.

    And I think it is still available on this site for under $30!

  • Thats_Otis
    Joined:
    To Terrapin

    I really enjoyed revisiting this release today. I remember having some mixed feelings about it when it came out, but today it sounded fresh! I've always loved that "Sugaree", and the whole 3rd disc is pure Spring of 77 butter.

    Good pick!

    Peace

  • Gollum
    Joined:
    10/12/68

    Thanks for all the great reviews of this show. I now know I will be stuck re-listening to this show for the next couple of weeks. That's the way this thread has worked for me. I can't always keep up with the daily schedule but I've gained a whole new appreciation for some shows, namely, the 2 DP #18 shows(2/3&5/78), DP#5 (12/26/79), the Cow12/31/76. It's just been taking me a couple of weeks to grok each pick. Thanks to everyone for contributing. This thread has been one of the few highlights of this lockdown!

  • The Good Ole G…
    Joined:
    Thank You Mr. Garcia!

    Yesterday's 10/12/68 pick definitely took me places.

    Places I'd been before, and new places as well.

    As said here by others, some really wonderful stuff going on throughout this magical show as the band jettisons into a new universe & explores the improvisational music cosmos.

    By October '68 Dark Star has begun to grow larger wings, but it's still a baby bird that will take flight and leave the nest soon. Of note in this version is Bear's recording (I believe) and Mickey's playing of the "Scratcher". It sounds as though Mickey's walking around on stage while he plays, at least that's how it sounds with Headphones, the instrument is truly circling around your head in this recording. How bad ass is that? And this is a bootleg from over 50 years ago!

    However, while Dark Star is just beginning to really gain strength in it's legs, St. Stephen is Standing Proud & Tall and has possibly reached it's greatest height, this is an almost absolutely perfect version of the song, and if you listen to some of the earlier versions from the summer of that year ('68 mystery reels come to mind, possibly from Carousel June '68), it's some amazing growth that this song has gone through in appx 4 months! The audience already loves this song as evident when you put on 9/2/68, within the first notes on that version the crowd starts getting so excited it throws the band off with surprise. St. Stephen, with it's William Tell Bridge, will continue to be this height for a little while longer, but will begin to diminish and shrink with age in the following year. I'm not sure it ever gets much higher than this version.

    That brings us to The Eleven, I think Bolo says it best, this version can convert a non-believer. So imagine what it does to all of us already at the church. This is an absolute ripping version of the song and all the long months of rehearsal are truly evident when you listen to the effortlessness of which they throw this song down.

    And to complete the suite they seg seamlessly into a sultry Death Don’t. Listen to Jerry sing during Death Don't, man could that guy sing a song with emotion. People would criticize that voice, but I always thought it was the most wonderful voice of all ;)

    Oh... and there's a Set 2!!!

    Which just absolutely shreds your face off, if it was still left, hanging there by a thread.

    This is manic air guitar, give you the chills, tears in your eyes, shake your head in wonder stuff here people!! I want to hear it again, and again and again!

    So like I said, it took me places, I dived deep into some '68 after this 10/12 relisten, I had to hear the next night 10/13/68 SBD (not as good, but see for yourself), 10/20/68 30 Trips release (check the difference between the Dark Star’s), and 9/2/68 (interesting recording, I need to check back on this, my mind was melted at this point and life distracted me).

    What a Trip!

    And like mentioned here, this was all during a time when Pigpen & Bobby were on thin ice and "fired" from the band.
    Fascinating.

    I believe a ’68 release or box set was mentioned, it’s hard to think that we’ll get one based on what exists (appx 37 shows / fragments) and quite a few have been released. Sadly most of Summer ’68 is a black hole, as well as the touring at the end of the year. There are definitely shows that were recorded that we don’t have, whether or not they still exist or not is a bigger question, I know Bear recorded more than we have especially in regard to the later part of the year, but for now the trail stops there and I’m afraid it is a bit cold…

    That all being said, if there was a ’68 box style release I’d vote for The Quick And The Dead tour in January - Feb ’68. Always loved that stuff, it’d be repetitive and have some warts and all feel, but shit I love it.

    Love to hear thoughts on what you all would see as potentially release worthy. This 10/12/68 show should be a definite consideration.. if they can make it sound even better I’ll be the first to drop down some cash to get it!

    You’re still here?? Crazy kids..

    After I came to earth from that I continued our little Cal Expo ’90 relisten and loved it too. I think 6/10/90 is my favorite show from the run, but you know Playing In The Band usually makes me say that. The Jack Straw is definitely worth listening too. And Phil saying he’s not gonna quit the band and it’s all a bullshit lie, with Jerry saying yeah, the rest of us are, well.. that’s priceless.

    What’re we gonna listen to today?

    Edit: 5/28/77 you say... looks promising and it's been awhile.

  • DeadVikes
    Joined:
    Today's Pick

    What's on tap for today gents?

    FourWinds, where are you?

    I might check out 5/28/77, the last night of the Spring Tour. To Terrapin Release from 2007.

  • daverock
    Joined:
    1968 - you're fired!

    This was the year that drew me in. Back in the 70s, I had heard a few albums by the Dead, but it was only after I heard Anthem that it all clicked into place. After getting into that one, all the others started to make sense.

    Incidentally, it was in October, as I understand it, that Pigpen and Bob were...strange as it may now seem...sacked. And those Mickey and the Hartbeat shows were played between October and December, without either of them in attendance. I used to think that was why Pigpen didn't play on 10/12/68. But I could clearly be wrong - both he and Bob played a lot of shows with the Dead during the same period as the Mickey and the Hartbeat shows.

  • DeadVikes
    Joined:
    Right on Bolo!

    I have several buddies that still refer to it as pots and pans.
    They clearly don't get it.

    So much unbelievable music! Still can't explain it to even family members.

    But every day, I still want to listen to the treasuries we have.

    More to come.

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Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

I wonder what they'll call this summer in the future?

Anyhow I'm grooving on some '67 Dead, thinkin' I need to check out 11/10/67 at the Shrine.

It's got a Potato too!

New Potato Sunday?

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so for the first time in a long time, i wandered into the land of that early Holy Grail in the Dicks Picks series - DP Vol. 4. Fillmore East 2/13-14/70.
i cannot believe what a beautiful recording this is. in all ways. Stunning. Thank You Bear.
My '67 / '68 Dead listening is cyclical. think i'm going to be entering its gravitational pull very soon. always love a New Potato.

Spotlight for the announcer please..

This Ain’t A Show It’s a Party

Glorious Sunday Morning.

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so clean and balanced, detailed and nuanced

an astonishing audio document

shall we go, while we can?

Finished with the 2/14 Carousel. I was eyeing 11/10 and decided to come inside and check in. Shrine Exposition Hall it is, it's got a new potato.

With a little luck I can pull off my first Brewer Hat Trick.

jumping a couple of eras - new interview with Ned Lagin at Aquarium Drunkard (aquariumdrunkard.com)

https://aquariumdrunkard.com/2020/08/25/ned-lagin-the-aquarium-drunkard…

if you're not familiar with AQ, it will always deliver - fantastic music site

back to Pig - ALL I NEED

Step Right Up and Read The Aquarium Drunkard!

Thanks for the Tip, something fun to read later.

Alright, gotta get out of the house.

Enjoy some good Tunes & Check y'all Laters!

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But Vguy's subliminal 5/21/74 HEC Edmundson drew me in!!! Also been a big fan of the WRS from this show... I like the audience version of this show, but going to listen to the one from PNW box as soon as soon as my Cow Palace encores are done!! Happy Labor day weekend all... bob t

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go cover to cover on DP4 - trust me

just came out on the far side of the caution > feedback > we bid you goodnight, and that whole disc 3 shook loose and rearranged a few neurons

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reaching down to the pile of discs on my right, Hec Edmundson 5/21 was right below the MOFI Garcia and Grisman and so Disc 1 is spinning now and it sounds gorgeous

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So, I did 9/3/72 and I agree with you guys. It probably has the same level of greatness as Veneta but the sound problems are pretty distracting (except for the DicksPicks portion-thank heavens!). It's whet my appetite for another similar show. What do you guys think about the August BCT shows? I've had those shows for decades, but they never struck me as being as magical as Europe 72 or the 9/21-28 run. But some folks on the archive claim just that: that the run is as good as anything in 1972. That the Dark Stars are comparable to Veneta and 4/8/72. That just sounds like crazy talk. No way! But I do think I need to revisit those BCT shows. What do you guys think? Are the BCT shows as mind-blowing as the 9/21-28 run? (seems a bit far-fetched....)

Happy Labor Day!

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I think the August 72 BCT run is prime, add in the October Fox Theatre run and you have my two most desired box sets.

I did finish a cover to cover run of Dicks Picks 4 yesterday cutting outside trim for my windows.. detailed, pain in the ass stuff but it went by almost effortlessly with a little help from excellent weather and great music (and a little help from some edibles).

So today I am in with the Seattle '74 show. Thanks VGuy.. BobT, I might end up shifting into New Years 76/77 if I keep it going...

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In reply to by JimInMD

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I am in with that for sure. 5/21/74!

And yes Vguy, I have also been having a lot of problems with the site, I keep getting the technical difficulties page.

Be well folks!

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You can lose a finger tryin’ to use it..
Bobby Looks at Jerry
Indeed says Jerry.

Gotta love that wicked sense of Humor.
For years I wondered what the hell Bob was talking about, then I finally got the joke when I read that part about him looking at Jerry.
Gift that keeps on giving.
Great stuff, still working through the "Outtakes".
That 2/14/70 Dark Star needs some props, so cool how different they could play it each night.

Let's See BCT '72 or 5/21/74.
Gollum I'd do some BCT '72 stuff what about 8/24?

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Yeah, let's do it! As far as I can tell, there isn't any consensus on which is the better Dark Star or show (8/21 or 8/24). The Dave's Pick 8/25 sounded to me like the hottest show of the run, but maybe that's due to the sound quality. Putting on my critics hat and adding 8/24 to the queue.

Fine Fine Show

Got all the songs and is played real well.
Hot and there’s some deep music here, introspective in parts.
By all means part of the journey to a show like 8/27/72, and so being lives in Veneta’s shadow.

Goes to some dreamy places.
S1 Jack Straw, China > Rider, Birdsong, PITB.
S2 BEW, Truckin’, Dark Star > Morning Dew, Ramble On, UJB
Well worth the travel and the jam songs are full of exploration.

Dark Star moves through some trippy landscapes.
Here, as the music played, a smoke haze began to encompass the area and the wind was whipping.
A hummingbird was flying way up high and then diving quickly down low, repeatedly.
So I got some visuals :)

I liked it.

If I were to complain, which I would never think of doing, it would be about the mix of the vocals out front.
The performance is full of quite and loud dynamics, so the vocals being so prominent isn’t ideal.

That all being said, I’m curious now, how’s that 8/21/72 Dark Star again? Hmmm…

PS - 5/21/74 I’ll get to you! Alas just not today. Your 47 minute PITB will be given the attention it deserves.

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Great write-up GOGD and nice visuals (I dig!). I'm glad to hear you/Jim/VGuy rate this BCT run highly. I've neglected it too long and plan to dig in with a vengeance. I listened to the full show with multiple repeats of PITB and Dark Star. I kept trying to find hints of Veneta in the jamming, but I couldn't hear much similarities. In the fine GD tradition, every jam is unique.

I couldn't help sneaking a listen to the 8/21 Star. That Star seems to me a little more thrilling and visceral, while the 8/24 seems a bit more mellow and reflective, which is fitting since it melts into that great Dew.

I'm looking forward to discovering these shows!

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In reply to by Gollum

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Hope you like them Gollum.

I don't compare them to Veneta, they are just good shows and hopefully will be given the full norman at some point.

I didn't finish Seattle yesterday. Today hopefully I will finish this and move on to what's next.

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In reply to by JimInMD

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I thought you all might find this article interesting. It details this Group's pursuit and acquisition of the Betty Boards.

https://denisonmagazine.com/feature/spring-2019-raising-the-dead/#

Based on this article, ABCD ultimately obtained all the reels from the original three buyers of Betty's storage locker. 780 total. Rhino, it looks like only bought 375 reels. Why not all the reels? Which ones were left out? More mysteries.
Would love to hear from ABCD on this.

I would think they will continue to put out at least two shows per year from this stash. Next up, you would think 5/26/73, Dave's 37 to start out 2021? Mark it GOGD.

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Today's pick, I thought I would fire up 11/14/73, San Diego, from the 30 Trips Box?

Stay well all.

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I wonder why Rhino didnt buy all the tapes? I wonder if they bought 6/17/75, because I would sure buy it, if they would sell it to me, my first show. I wonder if $ 1000 would get you a tape or even get you in the discussion for buying one.

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Let it be known throughout the land, that on eight September 2020, DeadVikes is calling 5/26/73 Kezar Show for the first release of 2021 on the Dave's Picks Series Volume 37.

Nice! I'd buy it :)

Thanks for the article tip on the Betty's I'm digging into that right after I type this nonsense.
And the Warner Hack Letter doesn't sound very encouraging. Boo!

8/21/72 starting off sounding good over here today.
And yeah Gollum, I agree with Jim, not sure these shows can compare to Veneta, but it's fun to listen for those hints of glory. Ultimately 8/24 is a real solid show, but it's missing the X-Factor or whatever it is that takes a show to that Next Level of Upper Echelon Dead. Like you I did some repeated listening to Bird Song, PITB & Dark Star > Morning Dew and it's a cool trip, real thoughtful almost eerie at times. I'd keep listening to those and will try and remember that. Man we're lucky, Gotta love it!

Sounds like some '73 as soon as this Berkeley trip winds down. Dig it.

Alright, gotta go read about the Dead while I listen to the Dead.

Enjoy!

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Interesting stuff.. so if memory serves the average show contains 5 reels.. say 6 for the biggies (Kezar, etc.). so approx. 70 shows in 375 reels??

Some of these shows (many??) are Jerry Band stuff.. hopefully the Garcia Estate is on this too.

Still great news!! I think in addition to tunneling under the vault and freeing the reels we need to find out where these reels are being housed and send in one of our top agents (bolo?, zuck?) to liberate them. I personally am not opposed to taking Norman from his office and putting him to work immediately. We have needs.. we are being repressed!

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In reply to by JimInMD

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....I'm finally getting to 8.24.72. Had a few too many beers yesterday and ordered this.
https://blisslights.com/sky-lite-laser-galaxy-projector/
Totally forgot i did until they sent me an email this morning saying it was shipped. Drunk me apparently thought it looked pretty cool. I trust drunk me......usually.

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In reply to by Vguy72

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That article is Awesome, thanks DV!
Really dug the story and was unaware of ABCD and their role.
Super Cool.
My assumption on the purchase of 260 reels vs the whole shebang would be that the GD already had some of the other shows, and they don't necessarily have rights to the Garcia stuff? possibly. Betty taped her own two track copies of all shows, so in some cases there are Master Reels and Betty Boards I believe.
Anyhow, FWIW there's my heavy duty assumption.
yeah yeah.. it ain't worth the paper it's written on, and in cyberspace, even less.
But shit, what else you gonna do.

VGUY - That shit is dope! I wonder can you film the projection? You're definitely gonna get some good visuals.
Nice work Drunk You!

8/21/72 is super sweet so far, just went through PITB and it's Mighty Fine, from a different place than 8/24 fo sure.
BTW on 8/21/72 shnid=139581 has a weird repeated section in Stella Blue at 3:00 that is not on shnid=150 JSYK and don't have to dick around wondering what is going on. Like I just did. It's a sweet early Stella and there should be no repeated sections ;)

Good Stuff!

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I went crazy on Real Gone Music today and haven't had one yet today :-)

Just a FYI - Real Gone Music has a big sale going on right now on cd's,,,, I think at the end of the month it will be vinyl.

They had quite a chunk of road trips.

I found enough to piss a chunk of money away. Who would have thought I'd need a copy of the Supremes doing the Funny Girl soundtrack!?!

5/26/73: being three sets I’m guessing that’s not gonna fit on three discs, but probably would fit with the bonus disc..though don’t feel he’d do just one show like that? Seems like it’s a good way to use partials, and still think they’ll do some kind of summer 73 box at some point, but of course that’s ass talk....

VGUY: sweeettttt! That might be perfect for my music room? Definitely needs some research...
Oh, and #$*&$ the Stars! Go Knights!

Sorry, been a free range listener lately. After the fun Alpine 87 run, no dead for a brief respite...today been going primal;
- 7/3/66
- first album bonus stuff
- 11/10/67 again!
- 3/17/68 again!

Thinking bout that 11/14/73 later,
and tomorrow because;
A) it’s due, and
B) it’s supposed to snow so I’m thinking DP 28 from chilly February 73 will be apropos...

Oh, didn’t get to 8/24/72 yet, been meaning to carve out time for that whole run, but did go with Dap 24 yesterday.
Overall great, jam is awesome, but I remember thinking then as now that it’s not necessarily in my useless opinion a “top” show?? Need to hear the 21&24 Dark Stars fo sure though! Perhaps I’ll have time later this week to do the whole run?

DV: thanks for the cool article. Knew about ABCD etc, but this sheds more light on this very interesting topic.
Guessing perhaps some reals were in such poor condition and/or not complete, or like Jim said already in vault so not worth the price? Like Oak island, every clue seems to add more questions?

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....I'll post a review once I test it out. BTW. I got it at the guitar center website. $10 bucks cheaper. Apparently, drunk me knows a deal when he sees one. (pats myself on the back).

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Just put it on!!! Looking forward to it... for some reason i play Waterbury and Dijon more from 30 Trips... mmmm don't know why... I love Kezar 5/26/73, one of my first Betty's back in 88... I still think we get a "May 73 box" Des Moines, Santa Barbara and Kezar, someday.... All 3 set shows... I don't know if you can fit them each on 3 CD's.. This is the time of year when Weather Report Part 1 starts to take on a deeper meaning....... be good all... bob t

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In reply to by Strider 808808

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Location:
1090 Page San Francisco, CA

Charging admission of fifty cents, Helms (Chet) began that summer to host free-for-all jams. It took little more than rumor to draw capacity crowds to the basement sessions. A chubby biker-type blues singer called Pigpen, who played with a band somewhere down the peninsula, hung back one night in the crowd, just watching.
- Joel Selvin (Chapter - Summer 1965 / excerpt from Summer of Love)

A lot was about to happen in San Francisco shortly after that and Pigpen would go on to become legend.

Hearts of Summer held in trust
Still tender, young and green

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Would love to see the full list of shows Rhino actually purchased from ABCD. I have seen lists, from Relix and other outlets, but they are not complete. For example, none of them include 1/22/78, Dap 23, and that was a tapes provided through the assistance of ABCD release.
Man, we owe these guys and Dave owes these guys.

So, I think we will see another ABCD release this year for #36. What year? Maybe we get another 72 or April 78??

So, for 30 years their shows were recorded by various Dead crew members and for some reason they erased the tapes for the Warfield/Radio City run?? That makes no sense to me at all.

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In reply to by Strider 808808

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Hello again my friend,Your post brought two things to mind! Both speak ‘volumes’ Dave’s Picks 36. 🙏❤️😉💀🌹
"Autumn is a second spring when every leaf is a flower." - Albert Camus

"Wild is the music of the autumnal winds amongst the faded woods." - William Wordsworth

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I think we will be seeing the returned Betty Boards sprinkled into every year until they are finished.

I'm very curious of the Garcia stuff as well.

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In reply to by JimInMD

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The beast get's released.. Good to see American Beauty get a nice birthday soiree.

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In reply to by JimInMD

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So, if you haven't listened to this one in a while, you should check it out. What do you think Bob t?

This is one of my favorite 30 Trips shows. The best, maybe. Sound quality is A+. There a couple of small patches, but no big deal. There are certainly no vocal dropouts for four to five songs, cough, cough.
One of my favorite HCS, just awesome and yes that second set jam is sweet. The Truckin into The Other one, etc! Hot!

Thanks for joining me on this one.

Who has a pick for today?

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I’m going with DPs 28, the twofer from frosty February of 73 just cause it’s cold and snowed here so thought apropos..
Perhaps y’all won’t want to go 73 again, understandable...

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For sure in again on these two great shows.

Good call Oroborous and yes, we had to turn the furnace on here in MN yesterday. No snow though.

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I agree the Truckin through the end is awesome... Also liked the Row Jimmy and Here Comes Sunshine... What a week of shows!!! 3 Winterlands, this, and Pauley Pavilion!!! Going to listen to the 73Feb Dicks Picks but then journey to Alexandra Palace September 9, 1974 and listen to these three shows in their entirety!! bob t

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Are there enough hours in the day?

Funny.. just came in, I'm on the San Diego Row Jimmy, and I see it mentioned...

Goal, assist, fight.

Anyway, I haven’t been keeping up since I don’t listen to music at work. But sometimes I get part of the pick in at night once I’m home. Usually the jammy parts.

But, tonight I think I’m going for 9-9-82, being the anniversary and all.

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17 years
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Just finished the encore.. Forgot how good the Truckin>Wharf Rat is!! I ordered the American Beauty released today for the 2/18/71 show... Couple interesting thoughts, we listened to the bonus shows a few weeks ago from Anthem of the Sun and Aoxomoxoa... a few of us said how we really only listened to them like once (I know I was one of them) and sort of forgot about them... Now that i look back i haven't listened to any of the actual albums that came with them including the recent Working Man's Dead release, but I did listen the the Capitol Theatre show 3 times... For me, when I think of the studio albums, i break out the old actual records and play them on the turn table or the CD's i bought to replace them years ago!!! Strange don't know why. bob t