• 8,099 replies
    marye
    Joined:
    Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

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  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    Ditto here

    Had one last week that had nothing wrong but wouldn’t post.
    After wasting a bunch of time, got pissed a quit…
    Pphhheeeww,, da Bills squeaked that one out Viking style DV!
    I’m too old for this shite lol

  • DeadVikes
    Joined:
    Posts

    Yes, I have been having the same issues. Had to delete a bunch and start over and in most cases just move on. No idea what is going on.
    Go Bills, they squeaked one out tonight.
    So did the Vikings.

  • 1stshow70878
    Joined:
    Noah's Rainbow Having The Same Problem

    Over on the DaP47 thread he says he tries dozens of times and it almost never works and that may be why it isn't so busy here at the threads anymore. Giving him credit for the pun, "that's why this forum is so dead". Touche. I think we must get blacklisted or something for multiple tries? I seem to have had good luck for years and I weirdly almost never get picture crapchas to solve. No telling with GD IT.
    Synchronicity file item: I was planning to watch the movie Noah tonight long before I read his name on 47.
    Cheers

  • bluecrow
    Joined:
    Eclipse

    For some reason my post regarding the eclipse, Aereo-Plain, etc. is being blocked by the pinche security function on this site. literally nothing that could be construed as linque etc. very frustrating.

    Maybe later. Enjoy the rest of the weekend folks! May your beer be tasty and football team victorious.

  • 1stshow70878
    Joined:
    Thanks Oro, Jim & DV, et al

    Finished my catching up with all the JOTW and Taper's.
    No whole shows just yet. Got slowed down by, I think, the flu. Had my shot weeks ago, WTF.
    Played my new John Hartford LP, Aereo Plain. Said to be the first Newgrass in '71.
    Excellent players including Vassar. Liner notes blew up my picture of him. Said he had fallen out of favor in Nashville as being unreliable and prone to recreational drugs by then. Said the younger players like Hartford and Jerry brought him back on the scene. Even in '71 they called him the Flying V as he liked cocaine apparently. Still my favorite fiddler bar none. Followed up Hartford with Old & in the Way. Just exactly perfect.

    BC was it quiet there or some eclipse tourists? I read the Dine' treat it with reverence and don't work, eat, or do much other than quiet reflection to honor the death of the sun. Other tribes not so much. Others have some strange stories about little people and even frogs that tie in.

    Cheers all

  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    Good Job 1stshow!!

    Whole tours are a commitment and can be grueling, but I find it’s the best way to get deep!
    You summed it up pretty good.
    And another great part of this achievement is how fresh other stuff sounds, although some not so much after the overall consistent magnitude of E72.

    So my lasts post tour Dead, prolly not in order is:
    3/29/93: about as far from 72 as I could get lol.
    Decent show, better neighbors perhaps?. Off the “list” that doesn’t exist.
    11/1/73: nice, but what a tease…
    12/9/79: good but not great…better than 31…
    11/17/71: awight
    1/30/78: decent, but not quite April yet…
    9/24/88: meh. Among other, JG sounds beat/shot…
    10/11&12/83: nice revisit since initially acquired
    11/1/85: (m/o), didn’t get to finish. I need more 85!
    10/14/83: personal 40th anniversary today, will hit 10/15 mañana.
    Always nice to remember this one. Big day for this tenderfoot…still feel recording doesn’t do justice, but it’s also perhaps lost a bit of the original shine as I’ve listened to so much other Dead over the years?
    However it ranks, it’ll always be a top shelfer as far as nostalgia, and man what a story lol.
    Kinda in a weird music phase, so not sure where/what I’ll get into next?
    I’m going to skip the 84 for now as I hope to hit 84 hard next year in keeping with my years that end in same number as current year for primary focus, and that year plus or minus 5 for secondary. So 74, 84, 94 next year for prime, and 69, 79, 89 for secondary…

    Yep DV, I did check that out, but had forgot, so thanks for the reminder to read it again lol.
    I’ve heard his history before, but still fascinating how easy it sometimes was to end up working in or around the Dead.
    And though I don’t think there’s a master chart on some boardroom wall, I don’t believe he’s just randomly picking stuff either. No list lol, “mmhhmmmmmm, I don’t think so”
    We know he’s been hitting the “possible wish list” that was posted back when DaP started!
    Sure he doesn’t go hard or obvious, but he has gone to that well significantly, which is fine, but this no list stuff sounds like no set list mythology ; )

    BLUECROW: I just knew you’d be all over the eclipse today, especially where yer at!
    We had about 80% here, but still pretty cool. Good Sheet Mon!

    Oh, finished reading Heads this WE. Pretty interesting, we ARE, everywhere!
    Big kudos to our very own Den Mother Mary the pioneer! Right On!

  • DeadVikes
    Joined:
    10/12/84

    10/12/84 looks interesting. I am going to check it out. Thanks Jim.

    And it is the 84 30 Trips show to boot. Where is my brain.

    Stay well out there and Tuesday we will find out what will be on Disc 3 for 48.

  • JimInMD
    Joined:
    Right on 1stshow

    It's a time commitment... but so worth it.

    DVikes, I hit up Dave's 26 pretty hard this summer, it was on one of my river devices so it came up randomly throughout the summer until I lost use of an arm.

    It's dusk and I just finished a three day craze of too much shit to fast and no rest. I am going to peel off this electronic device on my shoulder my PT guy makes me use, put on 10/12/84 and do a little soak in the hot tub. I might even bring a beverage of choice, which is a real treat because I have been cutting back recently.

    So GD, good earphones and a relaxing state of mind.. what could possibly go wrong?

    Thanks to all for keeping life just a little better than if you were not here.

  • 1stshow70878
    Joined:
    Final Notes On EU72

    It only took me as long to listen to them all as the band took to play them all, like six weeks, lol. How many tours, especially this big, can you say every show was great? My learning curve items include: Pigpen's organ playing added so much to so many songs. Keith really shining, and he has a perfect beer barrel style for the Pigpen songs. The Playin's developed nicely throughout the tour (as did the new He's Gone) and ended with a cool 23 minute one. New appreciation for Two Souls and Sing Me Back Home. The Cautions were a treat. The TOOs were as well developed as the Dark Stars and in some ways almost interchangeable in the setlists. Many of both of these two songs are now in my top 10s of that song. I seem to remember two jams had a Mind Left Body or Beautiful Jam section as well. How did they pare it down to the 3-LPs? So many great songs that didn't make the cut. I have a stack of post-it notes an inch thick from the shows but re-reading them has not helped me pick a top 5 so here are some favorites in no particular order that are in the running:
    4-7-72 Wembley
    5-3-72 Paris
    5-11-72 Rotterdam
    5-13-72 Lille (best TOO?)
    5-23-72 London ( best Dark Star?)
    5-26-72 London
    Honorable mentions include:
    4-14-72 Tivoli
    4-26-72 Frankfurt
    4-29-72 Hamburg
    5-7-72 Bickershaw
    But really you just cannot go wrong with any show on this phenomenal tour.
    So glad I took the plunge!
    Cheers and special thanks to all you mentors out there.

  • 1stshow70878
    Joined:
    Adding it to my list...

    ...for once I finish EU72 tomorrow.
    Have a lot to catch up on.
    11-17-71
    12-4-71 on JOTW from Sept. 8-14
    and all these chunks from Taper's Sept.-Oct.:
    12-31-76
    4-25-77
    5-28-77
    12-31-77
    And maybe those two chunks of K.C. 7-3-84 too for dessert.
    Bonus points: 1-30-78
    Cheers

    Edit: And the new, old GD Hour looks nice too, 5-25-74.

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Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

I wonder what they'll call this summer in the future?

Anyhow I'm grooving on some '67 Dead, thinkin' I need to check out 11/10/67 at the Shrine.

It's got a Potato too!

New Potato Sunday?

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so for the first time in a long time, i wandered into the land of that early Holy Grail in the Dicks Picks series - DP Vol. 4. Fillmore East 2/13-14/70.
i cannot believe what a beautiful recording this is. in all ways. Stunning. Thank You Bear.
My '67 / '68 Dead listening is cyclical. think i'm going to be entering its gravitational pull very soon. always love a New Potato.

Spotlight for the announcer please..

This Ain’t A Show It’s a Party

Glorious Sunday Morning.

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so clean and balanced, detailed and nuanced

an astonishing audio document

shall we go, while we can?

Finished with the 2/14 Carousel. I was eyeing 11/10 and decided to come inside and check in. Shrine Exposition Hall it is, it's got a new potato.

With a little luck I can pull off my first Brewer Hat Trick.

jumping a couple of eras - new interview with Ned Lagin at Aquarium Drunkard (aquariumdrunkard.com)

https://aquariumdrunkard.com/2020/08/25/ned-lagin-the-aquarium-drunkard…

if you're not familiar with AQ, it will always deliver - fantastic music site

back to Pig - ALL I NEED

Step Right Up and Read The Aquarium Drunkard!

Thanks for the Tip, something fun to read later.

Alright, gotta get out of the house.

Enjoy some good Tunes & Check y'all Laters!

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But Vguy's subliminal 5/21/74 HEC Edmundson drew me in!!! Also been a big fan of the WRS from this show... I like the audience version of this show, but going to listen to the one from PNW box as soon as soon as my Cow Palace encores are done!! Happy Labor day weekend all... bob t

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go cover to cover on DP4 - trust me

just came out on the far side of the caution > feedback > we bid you goodnight, and that whole disc 3 shook loose and rearranged a few neurons

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reaching down to the pile of discs on my right, Hec Edmundson 5/21 was right below the MOFI Garcia and Grisman and so Disc 1 is spinning now and it sounds gorgeous

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So, I did 9/3/72 and I agree with you guys. It probably has the same level of greatness as Veneta but the sound problems are pretty distracting (except for the DicksPicks portion-thank heavens!). It's whet my appetite for another similar show. What do you guys think about the August BCT shows? I've had those shows for decades, but they never struck me as being as magical as Europe 72 or the 9/21-28 run. But some folks on the archive claim just that: that the run is as good as anything in 1972. That the Dark Stars are comparable to Veneta and 4/8/72. That just sounds like crazy talk. No way! But I do think I need to revisit those BCT shows. What do you guys think? Are the BCT shows as mind-blowing as the 9/21-28 run? (seems a bit far-fetched....)

Happy Labor Day!

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I think the August 72 BCT run is prime, add in the October Fox Theatre run and you have my two most desired box sets.

I did finish a cover to cover run of Dicks Picks 4 yesterday cutting outside trim for my windows.. detailed, pain in the ass stuff but it went by almost effortlessly with a little help from excellent weather and great music (and a little help from some edibles).

So today I am in with the Seattle '74 show. Thanks VGuy.. BobT, I might end up shifting into New Years 76/77 if I keep it going...

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In reply to by JimInMD

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I am in with that for sure. 5/21/74!

And yes Vguy, I have also been having a lot of problems with the site, I keep getting the technical difficulties page.

Be well folks!

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In reply to by Gollum

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You can lose a finger tryin’ to use it..
Bobby Looks at Jerry
Indeed says Jerry.

Gotta love that wicked sense of Humor.
For years I wondered what the hell Bob was talking about, then I finally got the joke when I read that part about him looking at Jerry.
Gift that keeps on giving.
Great stuff, still working through the "Outtakes".
That 2/14/70 Dark Star needs some props, so cool how different they could play it each night.

Let's See BCT '72 or 5/21/74.
Gollum I'd do some BCT '72 stuff what about 8/24?

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Yeah, let's do it! As far as I can tell, there isn't any consensus on which is the better Dark Star or show (8/21 or 8/24). The Dave's Pick 8/25 sounded to me like the hottest show of the run, but maybe that's due to the sound quality. Putting on my critics hat and adding 8/24 to the queue.

Fine Fine Show

Got all the songs and is played real well.
Hot and there’s some deep music here, introspective in parts.
By all means part of the journey to a show like 8/27/72, and so being lives in Veneta’s shadow.

Goes to some dreamy places.
S1 Jack Straw, China > Rider, Birdsong, PITB.
S2 BEW, Truckin’, Dark Star > Morning Dew, Ramble On, UJB
Well worth the travel and the jam songs are full of exploration.

Dark Star moves through some trippy landscapes.
Here, as the music played, a smoke haze began to encompass the area and the wind was whipping.
A hummingbird was flying way up high and then diving quickly down low, repeatedly.
So I got some visuals :)

I liked it.

If I were to complain, which I would never think of doing, it would be about the mix of the vocals out front.
The performance is full of quite and loud dynamics, so the vocals being so prominent isn’t ideal.

That all being said, I’m curious now, how’s that 8/21/72 Dark Star again? Hmmm…

PS - 5/21/74 I’ll get to you! Alas just not today. Your 47 minute PITB will be given the attention it deserves.

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Great write-up GOGD and nice visuals (I dig!). I'm glad to hear you/Jim/VGuy rate this BCT run highly. I've neglected it too long and plan to dig in with a vengeance. I listened to the full show with multiple repeats of PITB and Dark Star. I kept trying to find hints of Veneta in the jamming, but I couldn't hear much similarities. In the fine GD tradition, every jam is unique.

I couldn't help sneaking a listen to the 8/21 Star. That Star seems to me a little more thrilling and visceral, while the 8/24 seems a bit more mellow and reflective, which is fitting since it melts into that great Dew.

I'm looking forward to discovering these shows!

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In reply to by Gollum

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Hope you like them Gollum.

I don't compare them to Veneta, they are just good shows and hopefully will be given the full norman at some point.

I didn't finish Seattle yesterday. Today hopefully I will finish this and move on to what's next.

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In reply to by JimInMD

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I thought you all might find this article interesting. It details this Group's pursuit and acquisition of the Betty Boards.

https://denisonmagazine.com/feature/spring-2019-raising-the-dead/#

Based on this article, ABCD ultimately obtained all the reels from the original three buyers of Betty's storage locker. 780 total. Rhino, it looks like only bought 375 reels. Why not all the reels? Which ones were left out? More mysteries.
Would love to hear from ABCD on this.

I would think they will continue to put out at least two shows per year from this stash. Next up, you would think 5/26/73, Dave's 37 to start out 2021? Mark it GOGD.

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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Today's pick, I thought I would fire up 11/14/73, San Diego, from the 30 Trips Box?

Stay well all.

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I wonder why Rhino didnt buy all the tapes? I wonder if they bought 6/17/75, because I would sure buy it, if they would sell it to me, my first show. I wonder if $ 1000 would get you a tape or even get you in the discussion for buying one.

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Let it be known throughout the land, that on eight September 2020, DeadVikes is calling 5/26/73 Kezar Show for the first release of 2021 on the Dave's Picks Series Volume 37.

Nice! I'd buy it :)

Thanks for the article tip on the Betty's I'm digging into that right after I type this nonsense.
And the Warner Hack Letter doesn't sound very encouraging. Boo!

8/21/72 starting off sounding good over here today.
And yeah Gollum, I agree with Jim, not sure these shows can compare to Veneta, but it's fun to listen for those hints of glory. Ultimately 8/24 is a real solid show, but it's missing the X-Factor or whatever it is that takes a show to that Next Level of Upper Echelon Dead. Like you I did some repeated listening to Bird Song, PITB & Dark Star > Morning Dew and it's a cool trip, real thoughtful almost eerie at times. I'd keep listening to those and will try and remember that. Man we're lucky, Gotta love it!

Sounds like some '73 as soon as this Berkeley trip winds down. Dig it.

Alright, gotta go read about the Dead while I listen to the Dead.

Enjoy!

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Interesting stuff.. so if memory serves the average show contains 5 reels.. say 6 for the biggies (Kezar, etc.). so approx. 70 shows in 375 reels??

Some of these shows (many??) are Jerry Band stuff.. hopefully the Garcia Estate is on this too.

Still great news!! I think in addition to tunneling under the vault and freeing the reels we need to find out where these reels are being housed and send in one of our top agents (bolo?, zuck?) to liberate them. I personally am not opposed to taking Norman from his office and putting him to work immediately. We have needs.. we are being repressed!

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In reply to by JimInMD

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....I'm finally getting to 8.24.72. Had a few too many beers yesterday and ordered this.
https://blisslights.com/sky-lite-laser-galaxy-projector/
Totally forgot i did until they sent me an email this morning saying it was shipped. Drunk me apparently thought it looked pretty cool. I trust drunk me......usually.

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In reply to by Vguy72

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That article is Awesome, thanks DV!
Really dug the story and was unaware of ABCD and their role.
Super Cool.
My assumption on the purchase of 260 reels vs the whole shebang would be that the GD already had some of the other shows, and they don't necessarily have rights to the Garcia stuff? possibly. Betty taped her own two track copies of all shows, so in some cases there are Master Reels and Betty Boards I believe.
Anyhow, FWIW there's my heavy duty assumption.
yeah yeah.. it ain't worth the paper it's written on, and in cyberspace, even less.
But shit, what else you gonna do.

VGUY - That shit is dope! I wonder can you film the projection? You're definitely gonna get some good visuals.
Nice work Drunk You!

8/21/72 is super sweet so far, just went through PITB and it's Mighty Fine, from a different place than 8/24 fo sure.
BTW on 8/21/72 shnid=139581 has a weird repeated section in Stella Blue at 3:00 that is not on shnid=150 JSYK and don't have to dick around wondering what is going on. Like I just did. It's a sweet early Stella and there should be no repeated sections ;)

Good Stuff!

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I went crazy on Real Gone Music today and haven't had one yet today :-)

Just a FYI - Real Gone Music has a big sale going on right now on cd's,,,, I think at the end of the month it will be vinyl.

They had quite a chunk of road trips.

I found enough to piss a chunk of money away. Who would have thought I'd need a copy of the Supremes doing the Funny Girl soundtrack!?!

5/26/73: being three sets I’m guessing that’s not gonna fit on three discs, but probably would fit with the bonus disc..though don’t feel he’d do just one show like that? Seems like it’s a good way to use partials, and still think they’ll do some kind of summer 73 box at some point, but of course that’s ass talk....

VGUY: sweeettttt! That might be perfect for my music room? Definitely needs some research...
Oh, and #$*&$ the Stars! Go Knights!

Sorry, been a free range listener lately. After the fun Alpine 87 run, no dead for a brief respite...today been going primal;
- 7/3/66
- first album bonus stuff
- 11/10/67 again!
- 3/17/68 again!

Thinking bout that 11/14/73 later,
and tomorrow because;
A) it’s due, and
B) it’s supposed to snow so I’m thinking DP 28 from chilly February 73 will be apropos...

Oh, didn’t get to 8/24/72 yet, been meaning to carve out time for that whole run, but did go with Dap 24 yesterday.
Overall great, jam is awesome, but I remember thinking then as now that it’s not necessarily in my useless opinion a “top” show?? Need to hear the 21&24 Dark Stars fo sure though! Perhaps I’ll have time later this week to do the whole run?

DV: thanks for the cool article. Knew about ABCD etc, but this sheds more light on this very interesting topic.
Guessing perhaps some reals were in such poor condition and/or not complete, or like Jim said already in vault so not worth the price? Like Oak island, every clue seems to add more questions?

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....I'll post a review once I test it out. BTW. I got it at the guitar center website. $10 bucks cheaper. Apparently, drunk me knows a deal when he sees one. (pats myself on the back).

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Just put it on!!! Looking forward to it... for some reason i play Waterbury and Dijon more from 30 Trips... mmmm don't know why... I love Kezar 5/26/73, one of my first Betty's back in 88... I still think we get a "May 73 box" Des Moines, Santa Barbara and Kezar, someday.... All 3 set shows... I don't know if you can fit them each on 3 CD's.. This is the time of year when Weather Report Part 1 starts to take on a deeper meaning....... be good all... bob t

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In reply to by Strider 808808

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Location:
1090 Page San Francisco, CA

Charging admission of fifty cents, Helms (Chet) began that summer to host free-for-all jams. It took little more than rumor to draw capacity crowds to the basement sessions. A chubby biker-type blues singer called Pigpen, who played with a band somewhere down the peninsula, hung back one night in the crowd, just watching.
- Joel Selvin (Chapter - Summer 1965 / excerpt from Summer of Love)

A lot was about to happen in San Francisco shortly after that and Pigpen would go on to become legend.

Hearts of Summer held in trust
Still tender, young and green

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In reply to by Strider 808808

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Would love to see the full list of shows Rhino actually purchased from ABCD. I have seen lists, from Relix and other outlets, but they are not complete. For example, none of them include 1/22/78, Dap 23, and that was a tapes provided through the assistance of ABCD release.
Man, we owe these guys and Dave owes these guys.

So, I think we will see another ABCD release this year for #36. What year? Maybe we get another 72 or April 78??

So, for 30 years their shows were recorded by various Dead crew members and for some reason they erased the tapes for the Warfield/Radio City run?? That makes no sense to me at all.

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8 years 7 months

In reply to by Strider 808808

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Hello again my friend,Your post brought two things to mind! Both speak ‘volumes’ Dave’s Picks 36. 🙏❤️😉💀🌹
"Autumn is a second spring when every leaf is a flower." - Albert Camus

"Wild is the music of the autumnal winds amongst the faded woods." - William Wordsworth

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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I think we will be seeing the returned Betty Boards sprinkled into every year until they are finished.

I'm very curious of the Garcia stuff as well.

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In reply to by JimInMD

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The beast get's released.. Good to see American Beauty get a nice birthday soiree.

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8 years 1 month

In reply to by JimInMD

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So, if you haven't listened to this one in a while, you should check it out. What do you think Bob t?

This is one of my favorite 30 Trips shows. The best, maybe. Sound quality is A+. There a couple of small patches, but no big deal. There are certainly no vocal dropouts for four to five songs, cough, cough.
One of my favorite HCS, just awesome and yes that second set jam is sweet. The Truckin into The Other one, etc! Hot!

Thanks for joining me on this one.

Who has a pick for today?

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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I’m going with DPs 28, the twofer from frosty February of 73 just cause it’s cold and snowed here so thought apropos..
Perhaps y’all won’t want to go 73 again, understandable...

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In reply to by Oroborous

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For sure in again on these two great shows.

Good call Oroborous and yes, we had to turn the furnace on here in MN yesterday. No snow though.

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I agree the Truckin through the end is awesome... Also liked the Row Jimmy and Here Comes Sunshine... What a week of shows!!! 3 Winterlands, this, and Pauley Pavilion!!! Going to listen to the 73Feb Dicks Picks but then journey to Alexandra Palace September 9, 1974 and listen to these three shows in their entirety!! bob t

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In reply to by Oroborous

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Are there enough hours in the day?

Funny.. just came in, I'm on the San Diego Row Jimmy, and I see it mentioned...

Goal, assist, fight.

Anyway, I haven’t been keeping up since I don’t listen to music at work. But sometimes I get part of the pick in at night once I’m home. Usually the jammy parts.

But, tonight I think I’m going for 9-9-82, being the anniversary and all.

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17 years
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Just finished the encore.. Forgot how good the Truckin>Wharf Rat is!! I ordered the American Beauty released today for the 2/18/71 show... Couple interesting thoughts, we listened to the bonus shows a few weeks ago from Anthem of the Sun and Aoxomoxoa... a few of us said how we really only listened to them like once (I know I was one of them) and sort of forgot about them... Now that i look back i haven't listened to any of the actual albums that came with them including the recent Working Man's Dead release, but I did listen the the Capitol Theatre show 3 times... For me, when I think of the studio albums, i break out the old actual records and play them on the turn table or the CD's i bought to replace them years ago!!! Strange don't know why. bob t