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    marye
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    Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

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  • Forensicdoceleven
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    Silence is better than unmeaning words..........

    An atrocity is when innocents are killed. Which is what I have to deal with today.

    A Pigpen song you don't care for is merely that, and nothing else. So next time, choose your words more wisely....

    Doc

  • daverock
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    4/25/71 too

    I was quite surprised looking on wiki how many tracks on Ladies and Gentlemen are actually taken from 4/25. I don't know why, but I had always assumed that nearly all of it came from the 28th and 29th.

    To me, the 2nd cd seems to follow the same pattern as the 1st cd. Some really well played shorter songs leading to a really well played longer one that unfortunately degenerates into another Pigpen atrocity. But that doesn't detract from the rest of it - hopefully. I don't know if The Dead ever played with such conviction and power on songs under 10 minutes than they do here. Truly great music that owes nothing to extended jamming. Songs that have become over familiar, like Sugar Magnolia sound fresh and energetic-this one gradually losing it's country stylings on the way to becoming full blown rocker. El Paso is another one - beautifully sung.

    There are a lot of covers on this album- I counted 23 over the 4 cds, with Goin' Down The Road cropping up twice.

  • daverock
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    wiki

    Jeffsmith - thanks, I'll have a look later. Without looking, I'm pretty sure the "Cumberland " comes from 28th - I can still remember listening to that on a tape back in the 80's - one of the best versions.
    Unfortunately I think I was a bit rash saying everything on this set is essential. While the rest of this first cd is as good as I remember - better if anything - I really can't be doing with the last 15 minutes of "Good Lovin'. To the extent that the next time I play it , I'll miss that bit out. The bit leading into drums is dynamic - but that rap......I notice we have a 22 minute Lovelight on the 2nd cd, which I can't remember. Hopefully more music than vocals.

  • JeffSmith
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    Ladies and Gentlemen – show dates

    Hey Daverock, the Wikipedia entry includes show dates in the Track Listing. Think I'll head back down that direction myself. . .

  • 1stshow70878
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    Hey, I Have That One

    Another one DR has found for me in my collection.
    Likewise have not heard it in many years.
    An anniversary listen does seem in order.
    Thank you Ladies and Gentlemen.
    Cheers

  • daverock
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    Ladies and Gentlemen, its...28th and 29th April 1971 !

    Due the fact that I now only ever listen to this 4cd comp of these shows that came out twenty odd years ago, and only ever have done since it came out - I can no longer tell these shows apart. I know the Dark Star jam with T.C. is from the 28th and the Alligator jam from 29th, but apart from that, it's all a bit of a mystery. Strange how they used to release multi show comps like this without indicating which song came from which show.
    Goes without saying that everything on it is essential wherever it came from.

  • Forensicdoceleven
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    Popularity is totally overrated.....

    Holy Grateful Dead Batman, I've been pre-empted! Ouch, that hurts!!!

    Here we are, April 29. The eternal debate, 28th vs 29th. Some shows are Overrated, with a cap O (8/27/72, 5/8/77, etc) and some are overrated-lower case O. I think the 29th gets the lower case version.

    Does an Alligator, Midnight Hour, and We Bid you Goodnight trump the best ever versions of El Paso, The Rub, Cumberland Blues, Morning Dew, and Hard To Handler, along with a cracklin' Other One and short yet dreamy Dark Star? Listen and decide for yourself, Miller's remaster is top notch.

    In years gone by, Deadbase polls always rated the 29th higher than the 28th, which I never understood. Don't get me wrong, it's fine as fine can be, but even excellent can fall short when it follows sublime............

    Honesty is wonderful, but I suspect it's also overrated.

    Rock on,

    Doc
    Whoever you talk to, I'm either overrated or underrated......
    P.S. I will be listening---and cranking!!---the 29th on my way to my car dealer in just a few minutes......

  • wilfredtjones
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    5/1/77

    Pre-empting the Doctor. Going with the Moore since the Board is incomplete and the Moore is moore than tolerable...

  • DeadVikes
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    3/16/90

    Another fine Spring 90 WTJ. Always enjoyed shows that started out with Let the Good Times Roll and then into Touch of Gray. Great Bird Song, Blow Away.
    Nice Scarlet into Estimated, Bobby loved the yelling during this time period. Solid finish. The Last Time encore! Great show.

    I will hit 4/28/71 next.

  • dmcvt
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    Doc Steady

    With appreciation for all you do, have done and will. I always thought time was invented so that everything didn't happen all at once. Which it did 13.8 billion years ago with the big bang. Before that, there was music. Isn't it just so human that up until a hundred years or so ago, we thought the dinosaurs were around until a few thousand years back, we didn't know how old our petroglyphs were... And it's taken almost this long before there's a primal, late 60s box set to be announced...

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Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.
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7/13/76 very happy you were there. I know you said you also saw the Bob Fried Memorial Boogie the year before!!! The soundcheck from the night before is actually on Youtube.. Great seats, do you remember how challenging it was to get tickets for that run??? Thanks bob t

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The first place we went to, maybe Record Factory, was all sold out, so we went to this small place called Penninsula Box office, and they had three tickets, for the three of us . Two people came in right after us and bought the last two tickets. It was tight to get tickets, and we went as soon as they went on sale.

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Good Stuff, an upgrade of the 7/12/76 Orpheum Show showed up last week from Mr. Miller for those wanting more.
Tiny Theater Dead Shows, those were the good ole days!
BTK thanks for sharing. Tell us more.

The Reel flip during The Other One on 12/12/70 from the Santa Rosa Fairgrounds pretty much ensures we won't be seeing that show released any time soon. Rough!
It's funny to think that these recordings we all collect so obsessively were basically an after thought :)

Have a Grate Day!

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I remember that there were two Dead posters in the front window, Skull & Roses. and the one with Garcia in a leather coat, the Dead at the Fillmore 1966 . Blair Jackson did a big write up on the shows in BAM magazine in July or August of 76 ,I have it laying around here somewhere with all my Dead posters and collections. I thought it was a great show and I still think that as I listen back to the tape. Winterland held about 5000 some people, it was cavernous compared to this place. I saw the Jerry Garcia band play there once. But those Dead shows were special, and this 1976 box set is very special . 1975 & 1976 fantastic years!

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Nice! 1800 capacity Dead Show sounds so amazing, shit that's like a 1000 people smaller than the Fillmore East.

I'd like to check out that BAM article, I did a couple google searches but didn't find it. I wonder if it's in This Is All A Dream We Dreamed? Hmmm.

Well, I know what I'll be listening to today.

Thanks for the inside scoop!
Good Stuff.

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Capacity, 1,800 . I was last inside there over 49 years ago. Not sure if capacity has changed in the 21st century. Lesh is more. Got an empty cup. Phil it up.

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In reply to by Strider 808808

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I don't think the capacity has changed.. they certainly didn't add on any rooms. I was last there sometime between 6 and 9 years ago. Classic venue.. hallowed walls.

I love small, quaint, intimate theatres. Yummy. Makes me want to travel back in time and set the dials to Europe, spring 1972 (and Port Chester 1970 and 1971).

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Hey man, PM me your email, I have something I think you will dig.

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Done!

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The photograph in the bulletin shows Jerry playing the Alembic experimental guitar or the “peanut”. One of two that were made. That does set the date of its first appearance two to three weeks before the March 71 date as stated in Blair Jackson’s book “Grateful Dead Gear” and a day later from what I thought was first time 2/19/71. Looking closer at the photograph, Billy’s drum placement would suggest after the 18th. Mickey was set up on the left of what was a small stage with Ned Lagin between him and Jerry. Would love to see the photographers proof sheet, or all the negatives. But it looks like five piece Grateful Dead.
I guess I should quote my old friend Pete Bogle , taper / archivist who coined the phrase “another picky Deadhead” when he introduced it as a bumper sticker in the 80s.
Ah yes, those foggy ruins of time.

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"The people up front are visibly bug eyed. They are looking flat". On to the second set... Great stuff.

It looks like Ned posted a broken link, or more accurately, the "......with" was mistakenly attached to link making it dead)

I think this is what he meant to post.. Wharf Rat w/ Pete from Rockpalast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20dic8S3cWI

Has anyone ever noticed that when Bolo disappears fire, brimstones and complete mayhem is unleashed upon the world?

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Good Eye mate!

I didn't catch the Peanut Guitar, it's hard to determine, but you've got a good eye for that instrument Strider.

We might need some Hair forensics for this photo. I see it floating around with some different dates attributed to it. But since that's the Peanut, that would definitely help narrow the date range of the photo, and yeah looks like 5 man Dead.

The shirt and boots Jerry is wearing are featured in the famous family dog photo from February 1970 by Altman. But, who's to say he didn't wear them for a while. I've got some shirts that are at least 10 years old, possibly older.

Cool photo for sure, Stephen Gilbert has some other cool photos on GDAO of the GD from October & November 1970, this one is dated from the November '70 Capitol Run on that site. But I think the real tell would be Phil's haircut.

Phil, when did you cut your hair in 1971, was it right before the Capitol Theater run in 1971?

Yeah, the Contact Sheet would be sweet. I second a look at that. But I think you're on to something Strider, I'm thinking 2/19 or after.

Fun stuff. Makes me want to hear some 1971 Capitol Theater, and I do believe that's the point :)

VGUY: GD Newsletter came today, check spam.

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Here’s an interesting article on that seldom played custom Alembic

https://relix.com/articles/detail/jerry-garcias-pretzel-guitar-resurfac…

EDIT: perhaps there were 2 different guitars as the one in the news letter showing the capital pic looks different then this “pretzel” guitar? Wouldn’t be that unusual for them to offer him different options since Alembic was in house etc...

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November 1970 he had a ponytail. February 1971 he had the haircut.
The internet has way more about the “peanut” guitar than ever before. I believe it’s not the same as the “pretzel” guitar. Peanuts , pretzels and beer. Port Chester is where 18-20 year olds would go to drink when it was still 21 in Connecticut. Lowered drinking age in Ct in 72.
Back to the mystery guitar. I definitely remember Jerry playing a much smaller body guitar most of the February 71 run. I called Alembic in Santa Rosa about five years ago and talked with Ron Wikershams daughter who told me they still had two peanut guitars that Garcia played. I asked her if they could remember if Garcia played them in February of 1971 and she said I should have a better idea as I was at the Capitol Theater five nights during that run. Rick Turner who built the peanut says it was pre-Alembic.
So maybe the Stephen Gilbert photograph shows a completely different guitar altogether. I do remember Jerry’s homemade Guatemalan fabric cowboy shirt, 1970.
Where’s Columbo when we need him.
By the way, the German film Wings of Desire staring Peter Falk is a beautiful film.
But I digress.

It's all about the Hair.

I love archival research and yeah the internet is the place for GD info!

It's too hard to see much detail from the Feb '71 pic we're looking at, so like Wikersham's daughter was saying, you should know if it was THE peanut or not ;)

It looks kinda like peanut to me, maybe we can tell when we hear the new tapes. Are you able to pick out the peanuts sound? I remember you mentioned it having a distinct sound. There's some cool pics of Jerry playing peanut at the Manhattan Center in April '71 for sure. So we might have to put our archivist ears on and play some back to back shows from the Cap & Manhattan center.

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is that we still have to wait another month to hear 2-18-71 in all it’s Plangentized glory (the samples don’t count).
Just announce it and put it in sale when it is ready to ship.

71 comparisons and investigative work - this is the group to do it.

Record Store Day this Saturday

https://recordstoreday.com/NewsItem/9003

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The famous Brotherhood of Eternal Love show? I think yes... Interesting...

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In reply to by JimInMD

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So the photo from this Rick Turner article on the peanut guitar looks like the cap theater one in the bulletin, only from a better angle.
Interesting history about its pre-Alembic origin.
Strider, you sir are blessed with a great memory! Thanks for sharing all this groovy stuff for us!

https://rickturnerblog.com/2017/12/05/garcias-turner-peanut-guitar/

EDIT: the Gibson headstock really gives it away!

EDIT: I meant the guitar was the same in both pics

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In reply to by Oroborous

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Right.. how can you remember all this detail? You don't see too many show reviews from me because most of the memories are inconveniently erased from my mind, or worse, all I can remember are broad details and when I even contemplate writing something there's just not enough to make a point. Perhaps I need to start taking some of that jellyfish memory pill crap or something.

Sometime I really think I am pre-Alzheimer's.

It's unbelievable you remember all this stuff so many years later... you put me to shame.

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Photo on the Rick Turner Blog definitely not from the same night as the photo in the GD Bulletin. RTBlog shirt is the blue denim, sawtooth pocket, pearl snap that Jerry is wearing for 8/14/71 BCT. No way is that the same shirt in the GD Bulletin photo, which even in b/w is clearly multicolored shirt. I think the Turner photo is from the Manhattan Center shows - Jerry Garcia site has photo with that same denim shirt for 4/5.

I love the Peanut Guitar - in part cause I hadn't even heard about it until the last year, the name strikes me as freaking funny, the back story is outrageously cool, and, lest i forget, it sounds great!

Strider - love the tracks you lay down for us to follow.

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In reply to by bluecrow

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Nice OB!

That adds some color to this picture.

Based on Turner’s blog post it sure sounds like there was only one Peanut.
Based on the Photo, photographer’s labeling and Phil’s haircut we can assume it’s from the Capitol Theater circa February 1971.
Based on the photo and Strider’s eyewitness account Garcia is playing the Peanut.

I wonder if LIA etc have already discussed this?
Looks like.. Yes. Deadessays has the Rick Turner Peanut listed as 1/21/71 - 4/29/71

Shoulda figured to start there ;)

Good Stuff.

PS - 4/5/71 is a Rocker, it’s been awhile since I’ve played this one. The Peanut sounds good!

Love the raunchy grunge tone of Jerry's guitar this show. I know they are very dissimilar, but I get the same vibe from the Dec'77 shows, the (sort of) return of the Wolf. Full of anger and disdainful sustain. Rock and Roll.

Sorry to go off on a tangent. As you were..

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In reply to by JimInMD

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Yeah Jim & GOGD - the Peanut sounds damn good.

pick of the day (some day) i think ; )

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Someday being today.. I just finished it. Been a while, doc would be proud. I know (knew) every note of this of this show, but it's been so long I picked up a whole lot of new stuff. Like.. why were the harmonies for Rider so off compared to a year into the future, clearly they worked on this. Was it Phil? ..but still a kickin' version, especially the transition, so young so fresh. As mentioned earlier the tone and raw power of the performance. A great little show.

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In reply to by JimInMD

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Enjoyed 4/5/71 yesterday, it'd been a really long time.
Had to happen with all that Peanut talk.

Super fun listen. Think I need to hear the rest of the run.
Will throw that out there as a suggestion for pick of the day, pick one 4/4, 4/5, 4/6 and give it a spin.

It is like reconnecting with an old friend. Whose Yodeling in Me & Bobby McGee? I always thought it was Jerry, but now I think that's Marmaduke? Check out Bobby in China Cat, killing it! The Other One, completely slays. And the NFA > GDTRFB is like a part of my DNA, note for note, I must've heard it a million times on Skullfuck. Think I gotta go dust off 4/6 now.

Worth a revisit for sure, and it'll get you pumped for some '71 to come.

Alright, be well all and Happy Friday!

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Back cover photograph shows Jerry passing a J and is wearing the Guatemalan cowboy shirt. I saw Howard Wales and Jerry both early show and late show at the Academy of Music (January?) 1972. Talk about throwing the audience for a curveball. I enjoyed it.
As far as one or two peanut guitars , I’m only going on what Alembic founders, daughter said. No big deal.
Ability to have a sharp memory, a lifetime of working in the woods/mountains. Tons of fresh air, sleeping on the ground, avoiding white powders, pure water, simple food, meat in limited doses, backpacking, walking, climbing mountains, (still do) reading actual books not kindle, taking breaks from Ganga, going on 20 years since quitting all alcohol. (Not passing judgment, most of my friends drink) , traveling in Latin America, learning a second language (Spanish) by direct immersion talking with people, only using a translation dictionary, getting to know and making friends with people of different ethnic backgrounds, mixing it up , leaving comfort zones at times, waking up at or before dawn, (even as a teenager), as far as dates, I know my seasonal work history,(mostly trail work in Wilderness areas) Official book of the Deadheads was the first time I saw a list of Dead shows with dates, synced work, travel, Grateful Dead concerts, other bands, where I’ve lived, (almost 40 years in New Mexico) it all fits together like a puzzle.
My number of Dead shows are within 2-3 for exact count, 133 in 25 years to the best of my ability. Was I at Manhattan Center two or was it three nights in April 71, was I at Academy of Music three or four nights in March 72. I know I was at all four nights of November 1970 at the Capitol Theater. I’m certain I was at the Capitol Theater 2/18,19,20,21 and the final night, 2/24/71. By summer 1972 and beyond dates are very exact. I have most of my ticket stubs starting with December 1981.
The other way I keep my memory sharp. Have hardly watched television since leaving home in 1972.
Will have to listen to 4/5/71 today .A day late a dollar short. Oh well. As far as a venue, Manhattan Center had a twisted vibe, oversold and rundown, of course the music was at a high peak in the history of the band. Nevertheless “Aces back to back”.
Tractors you say, my uncle Harlan worked for John Deere in Des Moines.
Stairs you say, “Stairway to Heaven”!
Parking meters you say, “ watch your leaders and your parking meters”

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In reply to by Strider 808808

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Now that's some merch I could get behind.
And the boots!

That'd be sweet :)

Nice Strider! Keep em coming my man.
Thankfully you kept that brain together so you could tell us fools some stories (I jest!) :)

BTW 4/5/71 wasn't the official pick yesterday, I just got a hankering, all that Peanut talk.
Sounds like Jim & I jumped on it. But recommend the rest of you do too. Make it official BlueCrow!

So Fire it up Folks, head to the Manhattan Center circa 1971, don't get crushed by the overcrowding and have a good time!

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I was just emailing Uncle Gary about one of these shows that he sent me (2/22). This pair of shows would make a great mini box. They're on the shorter side, so they can probably fit it all on four or five discs and they play extremely well.

The set lists are no joke (Bird Song, Dark Star, China Rider, Playing in the Band, Eyes of the World). At a minimum 2/22 could use an official rendering. Hook me up bartender, hook me up.

For all you folks going to the Manhattan Center show

Listen to how happy Pigpen is!
Especially during the end of Lovelight, man he sounds so stoked.

Thinking April '71 was the peak of Pig's career.

Good Stuff!

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Added to the general vibe that night. MC was a block or two away.( Correction, 8 blocks away 9/26) I just read my comment for 4/5/71 that I wrote 9 years and 6 months ago on Dead. Net. Listening to China/Rider just now I could hear the difference from the Capitol Theater. Manhattan Center was at least twice as big. (?) I did make it from the floor to the huge balcony for the second set where there was room enough to dance. It was supposed to be a “dance marathon “. The sound of the recording in that room has a different sound from the Fillmore East or the Capitol Theater. Perhaps somewhat like Winterland. Although Winterland was longer from the back to the stage. Now the Oakland Auditorium was awesome. Another decade, another era. I still have audience tapes I made there with my Sony D-5.
Another time marker I use is foreign travel. First time out of the States was to Montreal, Quebec, Canada in late April 1970 to film the Expo 67 dome. Was making a super 8 film on geodesic domes. Or my first time to Mexico to TJ and k-49 surfing with an old friend from the east. Or the first time to southern Mexico (Chiapas) and Guatemala in January 1988. Living in the highlands of Chiapas (& selva) five winters 1992-1996 while furloughed from seasonal Forest Service. It’s those kind of times that stand out in my memory just as amazing Grateful Dead concerts do. So it goes.

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of all the Dead eras and sound I've always had a special place in my heart for the Skull and Roses lp. and only yesterday, when GOGD commented on the 4/5 Not Fade Away > Going Down the Road, and I'm like oh yeah, those lp tracks are from this show(!), did it click that the Peanut is at the heart of that sound. The Peanut, a somewhat obscure Garcia guitar, unlike no other, that Jerry used for all of 3 months. I was listening to 4/5 today at work and Jerry's sound is so freaking early rock and roll bluesy clean and raw at the same time and I love it.

GOGD - The yodeler IS Marmaduke. After the song is finished Bob quickly says his name!!

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In reply to by bluecrow

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..and all of your creations.

Such a personal lyric.. when your children, they all start to resent you.

What mind would write this stuff.

Say what you want about 80's GD, but at the very least.. they were the worlds best Dylan Cover band for a short period of time.

Checking out 7/2/ 89.. part of the Shakedown Stream.. but I missed it and they took it away almost immediately.. now it's back.

To Lay Me Down kicking in now. Amazing stuff.

No doubt Jim. The Dylan slot. My god, some shows saw 3-4.

Recently, I have been really digging the different versions of Maggie's Farm. So many favorites. I can't pick one. Of course Desolation Row and Phil's take on Tom Thumbs Blues.
I remember being a big fan of Stuck Inside a Mobile.... During the late 80's Alpine days. Still love it.

Here is an option for tomorrow, 9/26/1980, The Warfield Theatre, second night. There is a good SBD Miller copy on Relisten/Archive.

I will be going through this entire run I hope this year. I have listened to a few and not all have SBDs and the sound quality definitely varies.

Everybody hang loose.

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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9/26/80 you say?

I've been crammed into the crowded and way oversold Manhattan Center circa '71 for a few days now, and my minds been squished. It's been a fun trip.
I think I saw some of you there.

Great stories abound on the internet, a Dance Marathon on the East Coast in the Grand Ballroom of the opera house built by Oscar Hammerstein. An attempt to show all the seated venues of the area how to party. Capacity at around 2500 people, reports of 10,000 in attendance. Not much dancing reported. And the music created imho is quintessential spring '71 Dead. (Funny, not only do you have to quantify the year, but the time of year, as by the Fall they were yet another type of Dead, love it).

If you didn't get to it, I say give the other 2 nights a spin, 4/6/71 at the very least (the band take a rare dip into the back catalog and play the oldies!) and search out the many reviews & articles written about the shows. Or at least the reviews in Taper's Compendium. Worth the trip.

But Hark!?!? What's that I hear?

A call to change gears and dive into another legendary period of the Grateful Dead.
The hallowed Warfield Theater run of 1980.
I'm already at Birdsong.
These acoustic sets from the 1980s sure make for nice morning music. La Da Da Da...

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It would have been nice if the Dead had included, Rosemary, Mtns of the Moon , and Attics of My Life to their acoustic sets in 1980.

Absolutely!

I listened to 4-6-69 last night, it has a Baby Blue.
Now I’m wondering when the first Dylan cover was played. There’s some homework for today if any of you are bored.

I love the Dylan covers from the 80/90’s.

Well, I have to run to the beer store, which is by the record store, but 5-9-77 vinyl is out on October RSD. I’ll have to check today’s list of releases to see if I should buy some vinyl today.