Dave's Picks Volume 36: Hartford Civic Center, Hartford, CT (3/26/87 & 3/27/87)

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October 15, 2020 - 9:35am

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clayv

Joined:
March 14, 2018

"And with this incredibly tight batch of prime 1987 Grateful Dead, we’re thrilled to bring you Dave’s Picks Vol. 36, matching the number that will be forever tied to Dick’s legacy. Thanks for sticking around this long, and for joining us through these past nine years of archival live Grateful Dead releases." - David Lemieux

We're doing things a bit different for this one - two complete shows on four CDs, bringing you one of Dave's faves and what very well could have been one of Dick's Picks. Yep, back-to-back nights from peak era 80s - the furthest we've gone into the decade, in fact - that will bring you to joyful tears. DAVE’S PICKS VOLUME 36: HARTFORD CIVIC CENTER, HARTFORD, CT (3/26/87 & 3/27/87) delivers emotional takes on tracks like "Row Jimmy," "Black Peter," Uncle John's Band," and serves up a hit list of covers ("In The Midnight Hour," "Good Lovin'," "Desolation Row," "Promised Land," "Little Red Rooster," "Morning Dew," Johnny B. Goode") that'll have you hootin' and hollerin'.

Limited to 22,000 numbered copies, this one has been mastered to HDCD specs by Jeffrey Norman and is guaranteed to sell out.

*2 per order. Very limited quantity available.

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November 17, 2020 - 9:58am

#351

DeadVikes

Joined:
October 26, 2016

Double Post!

Double Post!
November 17, 2020 - 9:47am

#352

JimInMD

Joined:
June 27, 2011

Two From the Vault

I don't think Don recorded it.. but they were stuck with these multi-track master reels with major leakage between input sources that created timing sync interference between the instruments and vocals. I think there is much mention of this on the liner notes, what he figured out how to do is estimate the timing differences and edit out the interference using technologic wizardry.

Before this, the band considered the by then ancient tapes unusable, to my ears now, they sound magnificent.

I will dig up the liner notes and either create a new post or edit this one hopefully later today. Up to my elbows in alligators right now doing something else far less interesting.....

And Jeff and GFar, completely agree - many thanks.
November 17, 2020 - 9:31am

#353

JeffSmith

Joined:
June 9, 2014

Dr. Don's obit

Hey Gary, Good points and great perspective. Don Pearson's obituary, published by the Audio Engineering Society, may add some detail about Dr. Don's relationship with the Grateful Dead and the ultra matrix mystery:
https://www.aes.org/aeshc/jaes.obit/JAES_V54_3_PG245.pdf Yup, lots of fascinating and unexpected rabbit holes to explore.
The technicalities of sound engineering are way beyond my pay grade, but it appears to me that Dave's 36 derives from soundboard and audience recordings made by Dan Healy and Don Pearson that were fed/"baked" together on tape in real time in the 'Ultra Box' during the show. In 2020 this limited Jeffrey Norman's options during remastering.
Regardless of how off-base I may be on its source tapes, I love the heightened sense of the crowd that embellishes this release. For me the integral aud gives a cool alternative to the 'clean' soundboard recordings we all love. Not better or worse, just a different way of hearing the music in context – wouldn't mind getting one of these every now and then, especially when 'pure' soundboards don't exist.
November 17, 2020 - 9:09am

#354

Vguy72

Joined:
June 29, 2007

I found something!...

https://www.etsy.com/shop/Afamilywelcome?ref=search_shop_redirect
....figured I'd share, because sharing is caring.
November 17, 2020 - 8:36am

#355

Gary Farseer

Joined:
August 1, 2015

With you Jim

Let's storm the vault as a Valkyrie with flight of the Valkyries blaring.

I did not realize that 2 from the vault was Mr. Peason's work, but I now doubt it one bit. As far as my earlier post, I guess Mr. Pearson may have in deed been on the band's payroll, until 1978 when he started Ultrasound. It would make sense that he and John Meyer would have toured with the early tours. Probably not primal Dead but shortly thereafter. I don't know, but at least it provides another avenue, with unlimited rabbit holes, for us heads to research. I doubt any band has as much underbelly to be discovered as Grateful Dead has.

Hope your copy shows up soon, mine arrived on 10/29. Hope everyone gets theirs soon! This was originally going to be an edit of first post, but then saw your post.

G
November 17, 2020 - 8:34am

#356

proudfoot

Joined:
August 2, 2020

help me, fellow Deadheads

I am in an un-Dead phase. an "anything but the GD" phase.

I have tried palate cleansing, no GD for a few days.

Nothing.

I will live. but I miss that GD vibe.

It will probably come back eventually. "take a vacation, fall out for a while"

oh, the trials we face in life, eh?
November 17, 2020 - 8:15am

#357

JimInMD

Joined:
June 27, 2011

Pearson

Let's not forget, he brought us Two From the Vault. He was somewhat of a sound genius.

I probably misused the term Ultra Matrix in a post a couple weeks ago, and I don't have my physical copy of 36 yet so am not reading whatever it is they put there (it's currently in Jupiter and beyond the infinite, hopefully it will make it home soon)..

I still think this was culled from the source cassette master which was a mix of soundboard and two stereo audience mics by Dan. Many of the 87 soundboards have a similar sound ..but I could be wrong. It's a decent release which has gotten a couple good listens by now. Which begs the comment.. we need more GD.. when do we get our next show? We need a new release now! (let's get together people and storm the vault, who's with me?) Ark Ark
November 17, 2020 - 8:01am

#358

Gary Farseer

Joined:
August 1, 2015

DaP 36 and Matrix

Not to beat a Dead horse, but I also did a little more research about this recording and the now famous Don Pearson. I am very happy that I wrote in my last post "Mr. Pearson" as he is/was not just a taper, he is a sound reinforcement giant. Mr. Pearson is the co-founder of Ultrasound, a company he helped start in 1978. Years back we were discussing Dick's Pick #5, Oakland Auditorium/Kaiser, and were discussing the sound system. I am a little fuzzy on this as I cannot find the documentation that at the time was on the tip of my fingers. Anyway, on December 26, 1979, the organization brought out a new P.A. system. My understanding is this was the first Ultrasound P.A. system that the fellas used. It was a marriage made in heaven as it was the Ultrasound backbone of course powered primarily by McIntosh amps with an exhaust system developed (and constantly evolving) by John and Helen Meyer at Meyer Sound. (Now I realize that documentation is on a very old computer that I still have but dont access hardly at all, guess it is time to fire it up, so to say.)

I doubt Mr. Pearson was ever on Grateful Dead's payroll, although maybe??? My reasoning is thus, as Grateful Dead and now D&C were/are the driving force in sound reinforcement for the whole industry, I would imagine that Mr. Pearson saw a lot of shows prior to starting Ultrasound. After starting Ultrasound, he would be working for Ultrasound to physically hear the outcome of his hard work. Since the December 26, 1979 show through today the organization has used the marriage of Meyer Sound and Ultrasound. Meyer being the hardcore engineers in reinforcement and Ultrasound being the developer of the various P.A. systems, meaning Ultra does the many P.A. configurations for various sizes of venues. Ultrasound would be the one looking at the venues and developing the P.A. for the tour involved (and of course, many uncountable bands/tours/venues).

I will try to fire up the old computer to find an article about Meyer/Ultra that was written in a trade magazine, but here is a partial read.

https://meyersound.com/news/fare-thee-well/

And anyway, here is another read on the marriage between these two organizations.

http://www.dozin.com/ultrasound/main.html

Any way, that is enough for this a.m. Although I do have more to write on the two organizations that are direct offshoots of Grateful Dead and how it relates to this release. Hopefully, time will allow me to do this later today.

Smiles to all, and be very careful out there, it is a deadly situation for all.

G
November 17, 2020 - 6:35am

#359

JimInMD

Joined:
June 27, 2011

Re: Ain't it just like the night, to play tricks

I caught the one the month before on the East Coast. What a terrific cover and a terrific song. This one only seemed to get better with age.

She Belongs to Me, another special Dylan cover. This one's acoustic and has Bob and Jerry swapping lyrics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_8obCnsw4c

Have a good Tuesday all.
November 17, 2020 - 4:49am

#360

billy the kid

Joined:
December 3, 2019

Bob Dylan Visions of Johanna / acoustic live

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dp3pBB6PUgw. I saw the Dead play this on 4/22/86 at the Berkeley Community Theatre, 2nd song of the night ,1st song was Box of Rain. that was cool.

John Perry Barlow

John Perry Barlow

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"And with this incredibly tight batch of prime 1987 Grateful Dead, we’re thrilled to bring you Dave’s Picks Vol. 36, matching the number that will be forever tied to Dick’s legacy. Thanks for sticking around this long, and for joining us through these past nine years of archival live Grateful Dead releases." - David Lemieux

We're doing things a bit different for this one - two complete shows on four CDs, bringing you one of Dave's faves and what very well could have been one of Dick's Picks. Yep, back-to-back nights from peak era 80s - the furthest we've gone into the decade, in fact - that will bring you to joyful tears. DAVE’S PICKS VOLUME 36: HARTFORD CIVIC CENTER, HARTFORD, CT (3/26/87 & 3/27/87) delivers emotional takes on tracks like "Row Jimmy," "Black Peter," Uncle John's Band," and serves up a hit list of covers ("In The Midnight Hour," "Good Lovin'," "Desolation Row," "Promised Land," "Little Red Rooster," "Morning Dew," Johnny B. Goode") that'll have you hootin' and hollerin'.

Limited to 22,000 numbered copies, this one has been mastered to HDCD specs by Jeffrey Norman and is guaranteed to sell out.

*2 per order. Very limited quantity available.

Creature From The Black Lagoon

Coincidentally, I watched that on t.v with the sound down yesterday. Looks good, and you don't really need the dialogue. Music on in the background, of course. Puts me in mind of the great Cramps song, " Creature From The Black Leather Lagoon" .

Zombies

After perusing these posts, I am reminded of another great scary-ish movie....Shaun of the Dead. Perfect combo of zombie action, humor, Pubs, and beer. A fair amount of gore but in a somewhat over the top way that just adds to the ridiculousness. What better place to make your final zombie-stand than your favorite pub?

GFar, good to see you!

Sixtus

Scariest Movie

Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer. Michael Rooker is pure evil. You will never go to a shopping mall again.

10/21/78 Winterland anniversary show

42years ago today we were at Winterland for another Dead show. Great Stella Blue.

GD vs. The Airplane softball game

It was all well and good until--with newbie Grisman on first, Weir hit one deep; while Grisman was comin' (comin'), comin' (comin'), comin' around the bases, Grisman yelled back, "Which base do I run to . . . ?!" Bobby responded, "The OTHER One!"

It ended up not mattering that Grisman kept running maniacally and randomly from base to base. Instead of running down the batted ball (as soon as it was hit, Marty Balin had yelled, "Count on me!"), Marty and Grace and the other four outlilyfielders (it was a trippy game . . . ) all went chasing a rabbit that had meandered into the outfield.

p.s. GarciaLive 15 announced! 5/21/71

The horror, the horror

Not a huge horror film fan myself, but The Thing is about the most terrifying film I've seen. Wilford Brimley, sans walrus mustache, is great, Kurt Russell is great. It was a remake of the 50s film The Thing From Outer Space, but mainly psychological terror. Really liked Cabin in the Woods for its wildly different take, and the incredible surprise ending. And not a true horror film, but a great thriller is The Game with Michael Douglas, Sean Penn, and the late great James Rebhorn in probably his most substantial role. You'll recognize the face if not the name.

And speaking of horrors... I'm going to be moving this weekend, and I seem to recall nightmare tales of trying to get address changes accepted by dead.net ahead of an impending release: So, my question is, should I seek an address change, or simply have my mail forwarded including the last DaP of the year? Curious if that is still a big issue that anybody has had in the last year.

Dave's self-congratulatory video is a drag.

Maybe it the release was decent.

Stay on subject!

Did anyone listen to TIGDH yesterday? Over 6 + minutes
of Dave describing which shopping malls he frequented
when coming across the border to upstate NY.
Less dialogue and more music please. Save the details
for your memoirs ...

re; Less dialogue and more music please....

....does that apply to DL talking about his favorite malls too? (just kidding). Head on over to the pick of the day with discussion board. We're spinning 8.20.87 Park City, Utahhhhh.
It opens with Addams Family tuning. Coincidence??
EDIT. Been awhile since I've seen Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I will admit, I plugged in my nightlight last night.

Staying on point....

....I found this!
https://youtu.be/qJkZJH-Hn4E
May 21st, 1971. A birthday show for me! GarciaLive 15. ETA 12.4.20.

Mail and Wilfred Brimley / Semi- On Point?

Alvarhanso....as for moving and mail forwarding, I moved a year ago and reached out to Dead.net via email and they almost immediately replied to confirm my update. I also did the thing with the post office online for mail forwarding, which seemed to also work for the most part. The two-pronged approach seems the best way to cover your bases here, however the current ineptitude of the USPS at the moment is questionable to be sure.

And, your Wilfred Brimley mention had me thinking of a funny meme I recently saw. It had some pictures, but it generally went like this:

Jimmy has 39 candy bars. He ate 26 candy bars. What does he have now?
[Insert picture of class full of kids, one of whom has Wilfred Brimley's face pasted on with full walrus mustache, and his hand is raised]

It's a humorous throwback (and not intended to knock anyone with the diabeetus).

Be Well People!
Sixtus

Dead Airplane softball game

I was laughing to myself at the very idea of this and then I came to deadhead brewer's post. Great take. I'm just trying to picture the scene in my head. Bad news bears meets Dazed and Confused or something. Talk about scary movies.

I bet garcia had a nasty split finger.

Test

Hmmmm says I’m not authorized on other link?

Softball

Garcia with a nasty split finger, nice. I bet he could use his middle stub to get maximum rotation.

If memory serves, in the documentary, "Long Strange Trip" Grisman describes the softball game and how he got there. I have watched several times on Amazon. A couple of weeks ago I almost bought from dead.net. Now it has been taken down, glad they sold them all. Before I posted I went over to ebay and bought a copy for $18. I enjoyed the documentary, other heads were so so, or as they say now, not me, meh. Edit: Found LST on the special editions shop, still got me one new for $18, not bad.

Vguy: made me crack up. "I slept with the nightlight on." Haha. Turn on your Lovelight. Now there is a product idea. A Pigpen nightlight with Pig on top and a bright red heart underneath.

Hard to believe, I have a brother-in-law, approaching 60, that still has to sleep with a light on. Otherwise, a pretty nice guy.

Nightlight/Lovelight....

....opportunity missed by me.

Scaredy cat

I was reading some of M.R.James's excellent ghost stories last night, when, at about 11.00pm there was a really loud knock on my front door, about 12 feet from where I was sitting. I nearly jumped out of my skin. I hesitantly opened the door, wondering what sort creature from the dark would be on the other side... and there was no one there.

Billy - envious of you seeing The Dead at Winterland in October 1978. I used to have those shows on tape, and they are great. The Road Trips release just scratches the surface.

Henry POASK

never saw it, prolly never will. A guy I knew years ago recommended it, but...ew...

"you'll never go to a shopping mall again" (do malls still exist?), then we hear that Dave talks about malls he frequented in NY.

Real life is scary enough. No scary movies needed by me at this age.

10/21/78

good stuff. a bunch of that was released on Road Trips, methinks.

Scary Stuff

Best thing I've seen in a long time in Jordon Peele's two seasons of Twilight Zone. Not super scary, but super entertaining. It's on CBS All Access. Then I watched all 3 seasons of Twin Peaks, also not horror per se, but good god that was GRATE. Including The Reunion season from 2017, first time I had seen any of it.

I saw Deliverance and thought it was pretty stupid. One of the funniest movie lines of all time though, right after the squel like a pig scene, they are standing around wondering what to do, and Burt Reynolds is like "We have to kill him." Another guy is like "What! We can't do that!" And the squealing guy says, "Now hold on a second, I mean, maybe we should kill him, ya know, I don't want this getting around."

Garcia/Saunders 5-21-71

That’s exactly what we need.

Keep up the good work Garcia Family.

Hey Sixtus

Glad to be back. Never really went anywhere, just mostly came and read with out posting for a while. Life gets busy sometimes. Speaking of busy, how are you and the family? Hope all is well your way. How many youngins now? I remember 2, I think, maybe 3?

Long Strange Trip

Speaking of LST, there is some fun stuff in the first segment talking about Jerry's love of Frankenstein and how it impacted him his whole life. Need to watch again soon. Just a little halloween tie-in.

Frankenstein....

....gonna fire that one up tonight in fact!

We all love Live/Dead

so I say watch "Dead Alive", since we're on the subject of Horror. It's cheesy, gross, and pretty funny (if you've got the stomach for it).

GarciaLive 15

5/21/71 AMAZING stuff here. This is Primal Jerry the odd thing is, John Kahn was absent from this show however Martin Fierro sat in. This show has a Reconstruction feel to it.

USPS in the 21st Century

This has nothing to do with anything Dead related, just felt like kvetching. Ordered a Doors box set weeks before release date. I live in Central Maryland. On Oct. 9th(John Lennon’s 80th Birthday), my package goes from Lexington, KY to Pittsburgh PA. It’s getting closer, right?? After 4 days, no further scans, but is “en route to next destination “. Nothing more for 8 days, and today, It’s in Los Angeles, CA. Any guesses as to whether I’ll EVER see this thing??
Garcia Live 15 looks VERY exciting!!

metadata

just got a new unopened Dave's picks and it contained metadata. sorry about the confusion. thanks. happy trails...

Earthquake in the Phil Zone

Anniversary date of Dave's Picks Volume 3, 1971. Disc 3 contains bonus tracks from the night before, featuring Keith Godchaux's first Dark Star. It's great, he comes through loud and clear on the stand-up piano. I don't think they managed to fit a grand or baby grand onstage until '72. You'd think he'd been playing with them for years. There's a Sitting on Top of the World in the middle (personally, I like to crossfade the two Dark Star parts together for a solid 17 minute classic '71 performance (and this is one of the better ones from that year).

There's also a little bit of organ in there on a few tracks of this show (a rarity for Keith).

And Phil is a bit up in the mix - always nice to see what he's going to come up with. He really learned the shit out of that bass quickly.

KeithFan That Dark Star

....I was in fact just listening to that one the other day and once again simply marveled at how Keith took the reins on that Dark Star jam, totally leading the charge on the pie-aner. It's utterly glorious. I don't mind the Sittin' that hitched a ride, it was actually a pretty clean and cool transition. Keith-addage made this band turn that proverbial corner and they never looked back.

Good Call.

Sixtus

P.S. I hear you GFar, life has been nutso, I mean it's 2020 dumpsterfire each and every day right? The 3 tots are making their way, the only way they know how - and that's just a little bit more than the law will allow.
Glad to see you're lurking and well!

The Wall Song - GarciaLive Vol 15

A really interesting inclusion of this David Crosby tune on Jerry’s newest release. Jerry, Phil, and Bill all played on the original, and I always thought it was one of Phil’s unrecognized masterpieces, with an extremely prominent bottom end. A very trippy tune, and one of the better ones from the wonderful crossover Dead/Airplane/Crosby recording sessions of the day. How this will sound on this release without the bass (no John Kahn), just Jerry’s guitar, Merl on Organ, and Bill Vitt on drums, will be intriguing, but these Garcia family releases never disappoint (neither did the Pure Jerry series, but that is a whole other kettle of fish!). Looking forward to this one from 1971, when JG was at the apex of his creativity.

The Wall Song

...ask and ye shall receive. Listened to this last night, it's pretty jazzy:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/jerry-garcia-wall-song-li…

Looking forward to this Jerry release. You know there is jamming galore when there are only 4 songs on side B.

I have a copy of the original Wall Song from a Grateful Dead hour many years ago - it included several minutes of extra jamming we were told vs. the version released on the album. That was always a great expanse, and I love Crosby's acoustic (12 string?) he plays on that tune.

Sixtus

the routes some of these packages take...

reminds me of Family Circus comics, where a kid or whomever will be at one location, and will be heading to another.

Instead of going straight there...round and round and over there...

Thanks for the Jerry heads-up

I'm on this G-L 15 like white on rice! I love Jerry band releases and never miss one. It's always groovy, tokin' music and fun setlists AND Jer seems always to be having a good time -- probably a great way to relax and play music outside the sometime pressure-cooker of the GD.

Got a whole winter's worth of Jer band to listen to and have discovered numerous unofficial CD-R'd Jer shows in my files, plus, um, I'd guess maybe 300 GD shows, so.....

On the incoming front, I've got Angel's Share American Beauty (downloaded and burned by a friend), the (2) '87 shows, another GarciaLive (No. 15) and Hendrix at Maui -- pretty good fourth quarter haul.

Now, tell me that DaP 37 is from fall '72 and that DaP 38 is four discs of 6-10-73 and I'll just kick up my heels (about 1/4" above the ground at this point).

Anniversary Listens

Here is one that came up yesterday for a Merl Saunders & the Rainforest Band with a fresh Charlie Miller 48k transfer:

https://www.dropbox.com/home/merl1995-10-21sbd48k

For those who like stories about how things went down, there is a long one in the file directory.

Today 30 Years Ago

I saw the Dead in Frankfurt.
It seems to me like yesterday. Where has the time gone?
Stay save
G.

Sixtus

Thanks for “The Wall Song” link - amazing-g-g-g!!!! I forgot about Martin Fierro who absolutely blew that tune to another Ornette Coleman level! Great stuff. (I wish Legion of Mary tackled more of this kind of material). A great release to look forward to, along with DaP 36. A great way to conclude this sorry, sorry year.
(Years ago, when taking martial arts, the Sensei had a saying that always stuck with me - Finish stronger than you started. 2020, take note.)

Kezar 73

A new source just got put up. I dont know the recording lineage well enough to know whether this is an upgrade of some sort, but it sounds great to me.

https://archive.org/details/gd1973-05-26.150710.SBD.BettyBoard.Anon.Noe…

This is one of those shows you can't overdo. Its a special treat.

Frankfurt Festhalle

Hey GRATEFULGERD, I was there with ya!

Wow, 30 years ago.

It was a fun show, huh? Smallest place I ever saw the Dead.
Most memorable moment for me happened before the show.
I was talking to some American Heads and asked how the shows had been, the guy said "Yeah, they played Dark Star the other night in Berlin"

My mind was blown. I'd been in Europe for awhile and hadn't been able to keep track of the scene, and hadn't seen a show since Buckeye '88.

I thought My God, what have I been missing?!?!
Turns out.. alot.

Goes To Show You Don't Ever Know.

Anyhow, we got a semi rare Valley Road from Hornsby that night and I was stoked to hear The Weight. Plus it was the only time I got to see Vince & Bruce with the Boys.

Thanks for the Reminder!
Good Times.

Dave's Picks, Volume 3

Today is the 49th anniversary of the 10/22/71 Auditorium Theatre, Chicago, Illinois show.
The show was commemorated with an official release as Dave's Picks, Volume 3 on August 1st, 2012.
Great show great release in my humble opinion.
Thank you, Dave Lemieux!

We failed people....

....yesterday was Brent's and Jeff Chimenti's bithday. Where do i turn in my Deadhead card?

Re: We Failed People

Vguy, I'm not too sure what Jeff Chimenti is gonna do to you for forgetting his birthday, but Brent Mydland has already given me arthritis on my hands actually on my knuckles and it hurts!
Heck, I just days away from my 64th b'day, 10/27 - several very good to great shows happened on that date in GD history.

Heck again, I AM a robot!

Fun fact....

....did you know the Dead never played a show on August 9th?

Nice surprise

This release is a nice little surprise. I was at both of these shows. IIRC, the first of the 2 is kind of average, but the second one may have been the best of the tour. I remember this as being a great version of Morning Dew. We'll see if the recording matches my memory.

Going back

Its always tricky going back to things from the past-like going back to the street you grew up in. Mine seems much smaller than I remember it. Hopefully you don't get the same impression listening to Morning Dew again, Hitmeister. On the other hand, the first show might be better than you remember it.

youch

listening to a show (10/9/76...Half-Step) by the greatest band of all time...the GD...sounds a bit sour and clunky.

I get why some people aren't big fans.

However, the GD, with the beauty, sour zits, and everything else, is still the only band that truly matters to me. Listening for the secret? I hear it, loud and clear. Searching for the sound? Found it, and will never let it go.

"GD is life"

Yeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Fun Facts

I would call those not so fun facts. Not very fun facts at all.
...and HF, time to switch up the therapies I have a few in mind.. electricity and microdots. What could possibly go wring?

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