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    marye
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    Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

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  • #1841
    JimInMD
    Joined:
    Pitt 95

    Ha.. I sort of remember that one, ... the Rain Set. One of the two post 91 shows I saw. 90 RFK was another where it poured for a large portion of the show. It looks like you caught more rain than me and you obviously have a better memory. I need more brain plasticity, my new favorite phrase.

  • #1842
    Oroborous
    Joined:
    No tunes today for moi : (

    But I figured, so why I “stocked up” last few days!

    Don’t recall anything like Woodstock 94!
    I remember that little Merriweather dry ditch.
    Dead show water parks: can’t remember the year, maybe 89 at Alpine? They had built up the hill to add more capacity and I guess better sight lines, but it was even steeper than it had been, and the sod was still new, so of course it rained so much the sod started giving way etc. Became huge fun for some sliding down that relatively steep hill in the mud, for others, like cousin Pumice and myself much of the time was spent precariously perched on what ever sod was still intact trying to watch the show and not suddenly zipping downhill lol. I can still picture all these little islands here and there with folks trying to stay on them, but every now and then the sod would give way and, woops there’d they go!
    Dancing in the rain at Toga was awesome, but my best Dead rain show was definitely Pittsburg 95! Biblical!

    LIGHTNING: I believe some poor folks at Giants 95 got hit, but I think they were ok?
    Just more scary weirdness on that 95 Death Tour: Lightning strikes, Decks collapsing, death threats and gate crashing, and biblical rain. Definitely something was up with the cosmos…

    4/9/89: one of the ones I didn’t but should have. I had a new job that I wanted to keep and thus had to cut into my show opportunities. So Went to Cincy on the 8 (good show!) a Saturday, and was going to just drive back that night. Ended up doing a little X that I just procured in the lot, and wow, best X we ever did but man it kicked my ass so that I wasn’t going to do a 7 or 8 hour drive that night. Somehow ended up in a hotel room in Kentucky with god only knows how many people everywhere. Next day being Sunday we should have gone to Louisville and just taken it easy. In those days I could of easily drove back that night and gone to work, but came home Sunday instead : (
    I heard the scene was cool there. I always stayed away figuring the cops etc might be too much etc, but over the years I heard L vile liked the money so we’re cool to us.

  • #1843
    JimInMD
    Joined:
    7/8/82

    Can't do 7/8/82 today, haven't pulled it down and made it my own yet. Anyone care to toss out a pick?

    I'm in and out, will start with one of the recently released later era shows I have not hit in a while but have time today.. they are playing 4/9/89 Freedom Hall, Louisville today on SiriusXM. A new one for me. Doesn't seem quite as strong as some of the others from that year, but hey.. it was a strong year. Nice Louisville reference in Louie Louie. Two roses songs in Kentucky Derby town.

  • #1844
    bluecrow
    Joined:
    so that Rain Rocks weekend in '82

    saw Boulder, CO "hosting" the Jack Kerouac On The Road conference and pretty much everybody still alive from that very extended scene, with the exception of Gary Snyder, was there. I had no freaking idea. Snyder did send a letter to Ginsberg that included the following - “Jack Kerouac was the wandering scholar troubador storyteller youngest son of the Jack tales in us all. … The voice of the water going over the edge of the waterfall itself.” (I took the quote from the blogpost I mentioned in previous post.)

  • #1845
    JimInMD
    Joined:
    Rain Shows

    I know I have told this tale before.. sorry to repeat it.

    Back to tripping at a rain show.. the most fun by far I ever had at a dead show was a flash flood event with the epicenter of the storm directly above the roof of the shed (Merriweather 6/21/83). Epic. Lightning struck I believe the venue itself during Wharf Rat taking out the power for a brief moment. Bob quit playing guitar during parts of Sugar Magnolia purportedly because he was getting shocked, everyone was soaked. To get to the parking lot, you had to cross this bridge that crossed this little (typically dry) baby stream. The stream flooded and took out the walking bridge so everyone had to get wet above their wastes to get to their cars/tents. They had to bring in bulldozers (bulldosers?) the next day to rebuild the lawn from the damage. Scarcily clad people had created mud slides as they turned the lawn into a semi-naked waterpark. We walked to this show, on the impaired walk home we had to wade across a flooded highway and take an unplanned detour due to flooded streets and resulting traffic cops as we laughed ourselves into a somewhat spooky oblivion the entire way back. We were on a mission to stay away from the cops, surely they can tell.. they are on to us.

    And yes.. mucho fungus was in play and no soundboards exist. The walk back was surreal, absolute confusion and mayhem. Huge fun and highly recommended if you ever get the opportunity.

    Big rain can most certainly create a cosmic meltdown. How could it not?

    There was a big storm at Delfest (a local bluegrass festival around these parts) about ten years ago where a couple people were struck by lightning. Thank god this never seemed to happen at Dead Shows (at least that I am aware of). That would wreck the cosmic flood vibe.

  • #1846
    bluecrow
    Joined:
    another thought or 2 on 7/28/82

    so the vibe I was picking up while listening yesterday was that this was a complete cosmic meltdown of an '82 show. so back with the headphones this AM and checking out the reviews and show recollections on Archive for the Wise tape. and yep this seems to have been a complete cosmic meltdown for a whole bunch of folks. hard rain through the first set and then clearing skies, mist, and moon for set II. going into this yesterday I had also forgotten the Stephen tease. One reviewer seemed to indicate that Jerry was ready to go and Weir steered them away and later admitted he didn't think they were ready for it. NFA has a really cool groove and I swear Jerry is hinting at Gloria or something similar before it drops into Black Peter. so back to the concept and need for dedicated listening - this is yet another show that really really deserves that relaxed and focused space.

    edit - and there is a fascinating context note in review by jpotts3 (Aizen upload of Wise source, not CM upload) - there was a MAJOR Jack Kerouac event in Boulder that weekend and a lot of the old Dead family and Pranksters and assorted old school beats were in the area for this. he has a linque there for an extended blogpost, and that blog has a whole lot more of interest to boot. definitely need to check that out and so do some of you too!

  • #1847
    JimInMD
    Joined:
    Rain and Soundboards

    There's quite a few rained out shows without soundboards or soundboards or partial soundboards only. I have to think when deluge crossed paths with outdoor music, Dan had greater concerns than to record.. either that or he got tired of replacing water damaged, shorted-out cassette decks once every few weeks week in July and August.

    As for the pre-Shakedown banter.. classic.

  • #1848
    bluecrow
    Joined:
    that's a weird taper moment

    before Shakedown. On the one hand i might be sorta touchy about anyone presuming with my gear. On the other hand the response caught on tape is sorta hot. guessing that this is centered around daisy chained decks?

    7/28 is a big show and, to borrow a thought, Oro, totally August '82 worthy. Had fun all through Set I and finally got serious and strapped on the headphones at Althea. A mid-set II Let it Grow on a rainy Red Rocks night(?!) > He's Gone > Trucking. Spanish Jam in Space and then Jerry teasing St. Stephen before Not Fade Away. My stream cut out at Black Peter so still got the tail end but the encore is Baby Blue and that says a whole lot

  • #1849
    Oroborous
    Joined:
    7/29/82

    Must of have been fun: three days in the rain!
    I used to, love tripping/dancing in the rain, TOGA!

    Another 82 beauty. Nothing special set wise, just some GOGD!
    Think I liked the 28th best?
    BC, I went back and heard that “wise guy” “banter” before Shakedown.
    Wondering why someone would do that?

    Hmmm yeah, why aren’t there any SBs?

  • #1850
    bluecrow
    Joined:
    Rain Rocks 7/28 - "Damn it Wise!!"

    What are you doing to my levels man. I'm gonna scream in the microphones all night long if you fuckin touch my levels man.

    oofa - I had totally forgotten about that classic someone-is-wired-hot exchange before Shakedown.

    Funny that there are no upgraded/decent boards for first 2 nights and no SBD at all for night 3. I heard about '82 Rain Rocks first at a party night before Alpine in that run from gal who attended. Hadn't really seen her since jr. high and some 9 or so years later she's a head. Her crew skipped Manor Downs much to their subsequent regret but saw Zoo, Starlight, and Kiel.

    In the end the only way I can really "judge" a show is a dedicated listen with no real distractions and preferably on headphones in the right head space. Which isn't all that easy in terms of time and opportunity.

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Submitted by marye on
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Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.
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Submitted by DeadVikes on Mon, 02/15/2021 - 16:32

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Come on Oroborous, don't delete your post. I did see it. And yes, this is not this day in Grateful Dead History. I never look at that site, so I don't follow what they post each day. Some shows are worth a listen, but variety is welcome for sure.

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Submitted by The Good Ole G… on Tue, 02/16/2021 - 08:35

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Ice & Snow kicked me off the internet for a day.
It was tough, let me tell ya.
Not sure how we grew up without this stuff ;)

Or, good thing we didn't have this when I was a kid or I never would've gone outside.

While I was in the wilderness without the internet, there was another Nudie suit sighting.
3/18/73 NRPS show
I'm listening to it now, the NRPS were wearing their Nudie Suits, and Keith, Donna, Bobby & Jerry all join the boys on the stage. They're talking to somebody from the bands and he says "we couldn't get Garcia to wear his though". So not sure if Keith Donna & Bobby have theirs on or not, they'd wear them the next night for the final time.

Pretty neat.

Digging the show, there's a nice FM copy on Archive here if you've not heard it -
https://archive.org/details/nrps1973-03-18.fm.weiner.21538.sbeok.shnf

There's a Willie and the Hand Jive that Garcia plays on.
(Since we've been discussing '86 and the Hand Jive has popped up, figure that was relevant)

The other thing I was learning yesterday without the internet was about the Carousel shows March 29-31, 1968.
Smoking stuff!!
Based on what I'm reading and hearing, I think 3/31/68 is the night Jerry pushed Phil.
You Play Goddammit!
If you want to flip your lid, listen to the Caution from 3/31... GODDAMN!
Some of that was definitely used on Anthem, and it's totally off the rails.
Wonder what the story is on these Reels in the Vault?

Well, there you go.
Who's got a pick?

EDIT - Oh yeah, I started to read up on Nanao but then lost the wi-fi, far out. Strikes me as a peaceful warrior.
Speaking of, you all ever read Peaceful Warrior? I read it when I was a kid, I think Dan Millman was the trapeze artist at the Trips Festival, trippy huh?!?!

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Submitted by Oroborous on Tue, 02/16/2021 - 11:03

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...yeah I know, deep subject (cue rim shot!) hey-ooo.
I see there are dates and ideas, but do we have a pick?

If not I’d like to suggest 2 ideas.
1) 5/3/86 from boxilla. Still haven’t got to this one and all this 86 talk makes me want to try some 86. Also. need my device for other stuff...
2) Capitol 71 run: I know Striders been anxiously prepping for the 18th, and yes though I get bored with same old repetitive anniversaries, this is different. This is like the difference between your unpteenth anniversary, (sorry Love!) and your 50th wedding Anniversary! So since we’ve been floundering a bit lately, how bout we start on the 18th and go the whole Capitol Run. If nothing else it’s like wearing a uniform to work; ya don’t have to think about what to ware in the morning! ; )
Or not, just a thought.

GOGD: have a research project if your interested. I can’t seem to find which Spectrum show had Wrestling before the Dead? I’m sure it was at the Spectrum, but I’m not sure if it was 86 or 87? I tried to cross reference with WWF 86 schedule but no luck, then I ran outta time...maybe their was a different “league” or something? I looked at comments on the archive too, but nobody mentions it? I’m not sure I’ll have that kinda time, but knowing you like to ferret these oddities out, thought you might enjoy it? I know we enjoy your adventures in the pursuit of all things Dead!

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Submitted by The Good Ole G… on Tue, 02/16/2021 - 11:56

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I'll listen to 5/3/86 and I'll listen to the whole Capitol 71 Run.

It's on.

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Submitted by Vguy72 on Tue, 02/16/2021 - 12:25

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....I'm listening to 12.15.86. Been diving down that '86 rabbit hole recently.

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Submitted by The Good Ole G… on Tue, 02/16/2021 - 13:17

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Wonder how often you hear Heads gettin' stoked on '86?

Set 1 from 5/3 is fun.
Set 2 is beginning.

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Submitted by proudfoot on Tue, 02/16/2021 - 13:46

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Enough time has passed

3 31 86 should have been on my list earlier

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Submitted by Oroborous on Tue, 02/16/2021 - 15:34

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Not too shabby!
Fun little first, of course 86 short.., good opener for gray cold morning,.second set is pretty good, might go again just cause...Played so loud JGs voice coils seized up, too funny! So far I don’t think I’ve heard a bad show from Boxilla, sure maybe not all killer, but not a bad one so far...
Yeah, diggin the 86, anyone know of any more goodins send em along so I can write em down,
Thanks! I’d say grab another tomorrow before we go down the Capitol hole, but that’s up to y’all, don’t wanna be greedy! ; )

EDIT: add 3/31and 12/15 to list ✔️

I have fond memories of that song deep into the pre-drums set two dogma.. typically filling the Ship of Fools or Sampson segment just before it gets into deep space. There's a Hampton, a Merriweather and an Augusta that come to mind.

Personal to me, but some really fond memories and I still dig this tune.

(edit, I did not make Augusta, still kicking myself in the ass for that one)

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Submitted by Oroborous on Wed, 02/17/2021 - 06:26

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Sounds good DV!
Just got a real gone copy...I’ve had a copy copy, but just today got my hard copy...so it’s a sign!

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Submitted by Strider 808808 on Wed, 02/17/2021 - 07:28

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50th anniversary tomorrow. So let me throw my lucky Stetson hat in the ring. Tomorrow’s pick , 2/18/71. Will work on some kind of reminiscent writing.

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Submitted by proudfoot on Wed, 02/17/2021 - 08:45

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Loud and proud

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Submitted by proudfoot on Wed, 02/17/2021 - 08:48

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As fate would have it, I listened to that recently.

Excellent choice

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Submitted by DeadVikes on Wed, 02/17/2021 - 13:52

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Dave's Picks #23! What a high energy show this is. That He's Gone into The Other One. Wow! At almost 40 minutes, I would have been drained at the end of that version, jazzy and spacey.
Fall 72 and this one delivers the whole show minus the encore I believe.

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Submitted by proudfoot on Wed, 02/17/2021 - 17:04

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:)))

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Submitted by DeadVikes on Wed, 02/17/2021 - 22:15

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Time for you to go back where you belong.

Looking forward to the Multi Track spectacular 2/18/71.

Ready for this too.

I primed my interest with 2/21 last night into shoveling this morning. My second listen since the reissue, and this one popped on many levels - I got much more out of this than the first listen. This will mark my second listen of 2/18 since the reissue. These releases are gems.

Enjoy all.. we heard from Doc regarding this show on the Dave's Picks thread.. bet we hear from Strider on this one.

Cease the day folks.. make the best you can out of 2/18/2021.

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Submitted by Oroborous on Thu, 02/18/2021 - 07:30

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Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy, big 50th today, I know Striders Stoked ; )
I am too, stoked for some multi-track grooviness! and a great way to kick off the run!
Boo ya, a real Bobbie Dazzler eh!

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Submitted by Strider 808808 on Thu, 02/18/2021 - 07:47

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I wrote a long piece in pencil before sunrise this morning. I’ve decided to post it on the dead.net page , Grateful Dead 2/18/71 as it will last longer than the American Beauty 50th page and maybe even this pick of the day page. Yes , I’m stoked. Where is Doc@11 ?

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Submitted by JimInMD on Thu, 02/18/2021 - 08:34

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Hola Strider.. looking for your 2/18 recap.. Where did you post it? I looked on the 2/18 page and there is a short paragraph starting with someone attempting to rob you outside the show, "give me your money..." A little scary, but hilarious at the same time.

I enjoy the personal GD stories, especially ones that go this far back.

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Submitted by JimInMD on Thu, 02/18/2021 - 08:34

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In fact.. looking forward to the write-up so much I had to post it twice.

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Submitted by The Good Ole G… on Thu, 02/18/2021 - 08:44

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Ditto Jim!

I'm looking forward to Strider's 2/18/71 Liner Notes to enjoy with these tunes.
I think he's working on them :)
This Dark Star is good to listen to.

Speaking of Dark Stars, Rob Eaton is having a hard year so far.
Charlie Miller mentioned he's dealing with the Covid now.
Send positive Vibes Rob's way.
Here's some info and hoping to help spread the word of his GoFundMe if it hasn't already made the rounds -
https://www.gratefulweb.com/articles/dark-star-orchestras-rob-eaton-lau…

Everybody that listens to this music has a lot to thank Rob for and there's good people here.
Send out that joy and reflect some back at him.

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Submitted by Vguy72 on Thu, 02/18/2021 - 09:42

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....I clicked that link, but didn't see anything about Covid. Cool site though. I you scroll down, there some neat GD stuff for sale (I'm looking at you Dancing Bear wine bottle stopper).

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Submitted by The Good Ole G… on Thu, 02/18/2021 - 09:51

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Yeah, way cool site, I need to spend more time digging through it.

Just heard about the Covid news this AM, so wanted to bump the GoFundMe.

F Covid!

You are correct sir.. seems to only be one audience copy that circulates. And it's not great, just ok.

I miss NRPS, RIP John/Buddy. They were endlessly touring before Buddy Cage got sick and were easy to catch.. one of those bands you see time after time and it never got old. David Nelson is still around, but he doesn't seem to make it too far out of CA and HI, and that is back when we used to have live music... And the last time I saw them he seemed a big fragile. They guy is authentic, a living legend in my humble opinion. I was just listening to one of their last studio albums a couple days ago while cooking some dinner. Where I Come From.. a really nice album.

Had a great time with this show today.. did 2/21 yesterday and when 2.18 ended I went right back into the first six or seven songs of 2.21 again. Loved it..

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Submitted by DeadVikes on Thu, 02/18/2021 - 21:38

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Fantastic show. Sound quality is A+. That Dark Star, Wharf Rat, Dark Star, Me and My Uncle are worth the price of admission. And yes, I said Me and My Uncle.
Looking forward to 2/21/71 soon.

So much great music to explore, we are a lucky bunch....... Okay back to try the..

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Submitted by Strider 808808 on Fri, 02/19/2021 - 07:42

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Listened to 2/18/71 starting at sunset. Then I started 2/19/71 just before midnight (hour) . With first verse of Loser when the clock struck 12 o’clock (High) 2/19/21 finished complete show. Still up before the sun this morning. Listening to 2/19 a second go-round this morning “I know she’s in the world somewhere” . “ I can’t wait that long to walk around the world “. Wow, the original five or as David Gans said ,”the quintessential quintet”. Smokestack Lightning “ is so smooth and driven, bad and beautiful.”

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Submitted by Tom_Tom on Fri, 02/19/2021 - 08:20

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Well I ordered the Dave's Picks Vol.37 the day it came out !...I HAVE NOT Received it, I contracted Dead.net, Only to get a Auto-Reply indicating they would get back to me with in a few days, Needless to say , It was charged to my Credit Card but I never got my CD, Ive had trouble ordering quite a few times in the Past, And now there is NO WAY to call and speak to a Human Being ! Ive been a Dedicated buyer of almost EVERY Dicks / Dave's picks as well as the Road Trips CDs... I do not order the Yearly Subscription for a few reasons , One of them being the cost, I just cant afford it during these troubled times, I prefer to order CDs when they come out Individually,...Now the CD is SOLD OUT...Why is this happening ?..Is it because of the State I live in ? (New Mexico)...I have no other problems when ordering other Items from other Shippers, I am totally Disgusted with the way things are being done at Dead.net and Ive been thinking maybe its time for me just to move on ....(Please excuse my typing, as my computers keyboard is a bit messed up)...THANK YOU ...TOMAS .

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Submitted by Strider 808808 on Fri, 02/19/2021 - 08:41

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I realize I bought the killer vinyl versions of From the Vault (1,2,&3) . Virgin vinyl. That’s five Vs.

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Submitted by proudfoot on Fri, 02/19/2021 - 09:08

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If you ordered a la carte, give it a few more days.

The days of talking to real people are vanishing. Like, 98% gone. "Go to our website" is the only option given. But remember, "your call is important to us". Lol...

"Artificial Intelligence" and all that shit.

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Submitted by The Good Ole G… on Fri, 02/19/2021 - 09:22

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Gonna listen to some Grateful Dead today.

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Submitted by proudfoot on Fri, 02/19/2021 - 09:53

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I have found a rare dud

9 30 80 through hes gone is "HEY! WHO NEEDS COFFEE?"

Hopefully things will get livelier.

After blissing out to 12 30 79 last evening, this show is quite a contrast.

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Submitted by Oroborous on Fri, 02/19/2021 - 10:03

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...2/19/71 and let me tell ya...I got no chance of losing THIS time!

2/18/71: upon future review, I’m with DOC 11, it’s a good show, but perhaps a tad overhyped...
I used to feel this way in the past, then when I received the 50th multi tracks, I flipped out at how good it sounds, and really dug it, like top shelf where mama hides the cookies, but now I’m a bit more conservative?
Yassss it’s a sexy show with those 5 newbies, and it has that little but First set Dark Star, with a pretty damn good Rat for first time as the meat in the sandwich (damn this 2/19 Cumberlands good for typing!) and I forgot about the Saint Steve’s, but it’s a bit organic overall; their not that tight on some things and the guitars where more outta tune then I recall.
Now before ya wish upon me eternal damnation, I’m just giving it the critical thinking treatment. I still love it, I enjoy it, especially the multi-track goodness, but I already understand why they picked 2/19 over this one for the vault release, and I’m only up to hurts me too...
But now I’m really itching to do this whole run because it really is the coolest way to compare the shows and get the possible underlying adjustments and evolution etc..
Ok, nuff talk,...shut up and turn it up!

Edit: 2/19 Bertha: whoa, easy there Billy! Just a tad different then the previous night lol..

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Submitted by proudfoot on Fri, 02/19/2021 - 10:48

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Check out hes gone

Sleeeeeeeeeepyyyyyy....

The next track is awake. My coffee idea worked!

At least for now...time will tell

Coffee courtesy of DarkStarbucks

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Submitted by daverock on Fri, 02/19/2021 - 10:48

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Orobouros - yes 2/19 sounds of a higher order to me than 2/18. More people on stage for the 18th, and neither adding a great deal, it has to be said. Maybe the others felt the same way as Ned and Mickey only played that first night. Once they were down to the original 5 the sound of 1971 crystallized.

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Submitted by proudfoot on Fri, 02/19/2021 - 10:54

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First set is a melty dream
Second set has the chandelier thing
All those new tunes throughout
And now Saint Stephen without that horrific splice

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Submitted by Oroborous on Fri, 02/19/2021 - 13:18

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Wow..yeah, imho they sound way more together. The previous nights newbies are improved, listen to Phil on Playing both nights, back to back, and compare; there’s more jams; the bacon is greasier, sheeeooot, the Smokestack is worth the price of admission in itself!
That Smokestack was so good I had to listen a second time!
Now, I may know relatively little of 71 specifics, but to me, that Smokestack is THE sound of the Pre KG GD! If someone asked me to play 1 thing as an example of that time I’d have no problem wiping this out! Bobble Dazzler indeed.

The Cryptical suite was, well, pretty sweet ; ) listened to that again too! Also repeats of 1st Bird Song and Deal. Almost hard to believe these are first timers. Easy Wind...fo-git-bout-it! Pass me the napkins! Nice Dark Hollow to provide some variety, and hey, it’s got a Cumberland!
Yeah, 2/18 is a fine show, but this bad boy hangs where mama hides the cookies!
Looking forward to tomorrow 2/20/71 as I’ve not heard that one before...