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    marye
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    Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

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  • Vguy72
    Joined:
    The studio picks of the day....

    ....go by so fast. General consensus that The Garcia Wheel is certainly special. It's cool that what I think is cool is pretty much cool with y'all.

  • Gollum
    Joined:
    Tripleheader

    The solo album triple header was a great idea. Thanks to all. I don't know why I've ignored those albums before, but now all 3 are going to be getting plenty of love from me.

    Thanks for the excellent 5/15/70 write-up GOGD. Spreading the listening out over a few days is definitely the way to go with such an epic show. Anyways, several of us now have a rain-check for the show. To be continued!

  • Dennis
    Joined:
    the good old g...... and 5/15

    check you're pm's

  • bolo24
    Joined:
    Ace / Garcia 1

    Ace: "Playing In The Band" is my pick for a studio recording that most closely resembles a quality live performance. Just splendid! Jerry's nothing less than a savant on this one.

    Garcia: "The Wheel" is sublime, my favorite version across any spectrum. The way that frantic opening just dissolves into a vat of honey-dripping pedal steel goodness is soul-cleansing. And Eep Hour - wish it went on for another 20 minutes. So calming and transportive, then handing the baton off to that ethereal "To Lay Me Down." Just what I needed yesterday.

  • Thats_Otis
    Joined:
    Hello All!

    I've been out for a bit - just needed to take a bit of a break from the computer, as that is now all that I do during the work-week. That being said, I grilled some brats and veggies on Friday, which was hot and sunny here in Bmore, and listened to all three discs of 5/15/70 - what a release. I was planning on skipping it, as I had listened to it quite recently, but I am glad that I thought better of it and dug in. I agree with all here - those acoustic tracks may be the best acoustic 70 released. Love it!

    I didn't do the solo albums yesterday, as I was away from the house and I do listen to them on a regular basis - well, Garcia a lot, Weir a bunch, and Rolling Thunder here-and there... I will at least try to give Rolling Thunder a relisten soon.

    Yesterday and today I've listened to Greek 8/13/83, and today I have gone through 8/14 and 8/15... loving it!

    I think that today is 7/13/84? Perhaps I will put that on if I ever get out of this Greek Theater 83 groove. Talk about a box set that is crying to be let out!

    Peace

  • The Good Ole G…
    Joined:
    5/15/70 = The Music Experience Category

    Presented in three segments, an evening with the Grateful Dead featuring the New Riders Of The Purple Sage falls more into the category of a music experience than a concert. - Jeff from Variety May 27 1970

    I spent the weekend having that music experience, Friday for the Early Show & Saturday for the late show. And it all lined up on the 50th anniversary.

    It was an epic revisit of some beloved shows. Throughout this revisit, I couldn’t help thinking as I listened to the amazing quality & completeness of this material that I would’ve killed to have these tapes in high school. It was unattainable for me then. But I used to dream of it…
    Well, we’ve got them now!

    These two shows represent the first “an Evening with the Grateful Dead” at the Fillmore East and the last time they did Early and Late Shows there. By this point the NY heads had learned that the early shows were kept short & the true magic happened in the late shows.

    There’s magic in both of these shows, but the “true” magic definitely happens in the late show.

    I decided to do the full meal deal on these two and grabbed the NRPS sets as well, which are both nicely recorded by the patched in Fillmore East crew, I believe.

    Early Show -
    Acoustic 9 songs = 46 minutes
    NRPS 8 songs = 30 minutes
    Electric 7 songs = 1 hour
    Over 2 hours of music

    Late Show -
    Acoustic 10 songs = 51 minutes
    NRPS 13 songs = 1 hour 13 minutes
    Electric 14 songs = 2 hours
    Over 4 hours of music!

    TOTAL BOTH SHOWS = Over 6 hours of music!

    The Acoustic set for the Late Show is one of the best ever, as previously mentioned here on this thread. Pigpen teases Good Lovin’ in the early show a couple of times, and throughout both shows, they didn’t play it until like 5 hours later and boy when they did, it is Hot. The Dark Star > St. Stephen, incredible! Throughout it all you can feel the Fillmore East vibe, especially apparent during the closing Turn On Your Lovelight rave up after about 6 hours of melting minds.

    What it must’ve been like in the Fillmore East that night! The Dead lit that place on FIRE. While listening, I sat there shaking my head so many times, amazing amazing stuff here folks, just amazing.

    The only real flaw in the music we have here is the omission of the late show Candyman*, which suffers from a reel flip on the FE crew tapes & was left off the official Vault release. That makes me curious to compare the uncirculated Vault version of the Bob Matthews recording to the FE crew version and see if there’s some patch material. It is an amazing version of Candyman! Very similar to Calebration version from 8/30/70, but earlier and more intimate, somehow. Jerry’s voice is just amazing on both of these shows and in 1970 in general.

    I’ve always had some issues with this release due to the tracking of the songs being cut up and spread out on various CDs. I’ve had them in the right order for years in my music player, but the in’s & out’s weren’t working for me, causing my completist OCD to flair every time I listened and therefore avoid repeated plays. I understand the reasoning behind these edits and am not complaining, just saying. But this weekend I found myself with the time and finally re-tracked the songs, especially the late show, added the NRPS and was able to fully immerse myself in the music in it’s original order at this high level of quality.

    At the time of these shows, Workingman’s Dead was done and pressed and would be released shortly after this show (the exact date seems to be in question, but in my research it drops about 10 days later.) This show represents the new material as good as any shows from this time. You get every song that would be on Workingman’s Dead except High Time (played quite well the night before) and you get the three songs that they’d already written and were performing from American Beauty: FOTD, Attics & Candyman.

    Cool point of interest.. Robert Hunter would be writing 3 more new tunes very soon after this, all in one day, when the band headed to England for the Hollywood Music Festival on 5/24/70: Ripple, To Lay Me Down, Brokedown Palace.

    * The Late Show Acoustic set group of Black Peter, FOTD, Uncle John’s Band, Candyman is a must hear in it’s original order, even with the reel flip. It’s some of the finest representations of these songs at this point in the Dead’s recorded history. Also of note the missing banter after Candyman leading up to Pigpen’s performance is fun and worth a listen. Jerry announces that they’ll finish off the Wooden Section with a gospel tune with some NRPS, Pigpen says wait a minute don’t I get to play a song before you do that fuckin’ religious song? And Bob hops on the mic asking the crowd if they wanna hear Pigpen, and does his Dog Suckin-ist man in showbiz rap. Then you get to hear the rare set up & crowd situation of Fillmore East, somebody does a Tarzan Yell, and Pigpen says “Heard You’re Fired!” (Sonny Heard), another Tarzan Yell, “You’re fired twice” and then a female audience member does it too, it just makes you feel like you’re there. And then you get Pig’s two fine acoustic tunes from the release.

    That brings me to wonder if David Lemieux has ever posted the 5/15/70 late show Candyman from the Vault anywhere? I’d sure love to see if we can patch this FE crew Candyman with the Vault version. It’s worth an ask as the version is sublime.

    David Lemieux may we request a 5/15/70 Late Show Candyman please? Thank you very much!

    Well if you made it this far… thank you very much!

    I wonder how many people actually saw both shows from that night and lived to tell about it.. if you’re out there, I would love to hear your stories.

    To wrap it up, when I first heard “rumors” of these legendary shows the Dead would do in 1970, with an Acoustic Set, the NRPS and The Electric Dead and they’d call them An Evening with the Grateful Dead, I would drift off and think how amazing it would be to hear that!

    Well some 35 years later, it’s as amazing as I’d always dreamed it would be.

    PS - Yesterday’s pick of Garcia, Bob Weir “Ace” & Mickey Hart “Rolling Thunder” was the perfect music to come down from this here wild trip through 5/15/70.

    Thanks Bolo!

    PPS - Strider88: Thanks for that great story!
    Everyone Else Here: Thanks for picking shows to listen to everyday and for your wonderful input and insights.
    BobT: 7/13/84 you say, I’ll listen to that.

    Be Well

  • Vguy72
    Joined:
    Pump Song = GSET....

    ....Main Ten = PITB.
    That's how things work. Eep Hour.
    Dead Horns are under represented.

  • Vguy72
    Joined:
    Bob T....

    ....that show will be a Daves at some point. Just biding our time. And yes. And it was released. 36 years ago.
    Rolling Thunder is the shit. My neighbors are firing off fireworks in celebration!

  • bob t
    Joined:
    Anyone want to listen to 7/13/84 tomorrow?

    I know it's not released but it will be something different, and I could go for the Scarlet>Touch>Fire second set opener and was as Dark Star encore.... bob t

  • Gollum
    Joined:
    Rolling Thunder

    First impressions. What a gem. I can't believe I'm just hearing it for the first time now. Thanks to Wiki for the album notes and credits.
    * Two jams with Jerry, Mickey and Zakir Hussein! I love Zakir and have been lucky to see him live a few times. I knew he worked with the Dead and Mickey before but didn't realize they went all the way back to 71/72. Top shelf stuff.
    *"Deep Wide and Frequent" - a major highlight. A guitar blizzard with Jerry, Cippolina, and two other cats I haven't heard of before. The guitars are all great here, but the only one I can recognize for sure is Jerry (maybe Cippolina)
    *David Freiberg does some nice vocals. Freiberg seems to get lost in the shuffle of fine San Francisco musicians and it's nice to hear him here. "Fletcher Carnaby" is an oddity- a menacing song with Hunter lyrics.
    *The arrangements of Playin' in the Band ("Main Ten") and Greatest Story ("Pump Song") are interesting and the expert horns are a nice touch. Garcia playing "Insect Fear"? Well I don't know what Garcia is playing exactly, but it's unmistakably Jerry.

    [Vguy- yes, alas, "Walk in the Sunshine", the poor thing. at least the Dead identified it as a turkey early on]

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Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.
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I would choose 6/2/95 Shoreline, I was there in the 2nd row and I had a blast!

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In reply to by Oroborous

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Thank goodness.

So I turned back the odometer a year and a few days from 11/22/72 and currently on RT Vol.3, No. 2. Austin 11/15/71 Disc 1. Been awhile since I've walked this neighborhood. At first I think Phil's bass is in fact a bit low in mix and distorted for that era but right now in Casey Jones and everyone's happy here.

7/19/74. 3/26/72. How about both?

On the road yesterday and was listening to DaP 8 - 11/30/80 Fox Theatre Atlanta. Wow that is a sweet show and release. Wish they'd revisit the matrix concept for some of that early '80s material.

All 3 shows in Seattle '95 were really good and lots o' fun. Same for the 2 in '94. Out there in the Northwest I feel like we were a bit removed from some of the decline. To this day I have the what ifs over fact they sound checked Tough Mama prior to 5/24 and Whisky in the Jar(!!) prior to that or another show in same run (don't see that one uploaded on relisten.) But yeah they played excellent Want to Tell > Estimated that 1st night (I was on the rail) and D/S>Wheel night 2 was flat out amazeballs.

Onward!

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In reply to by bluecrow

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Went with 4-2, old CD-R and it sounds nice. Love the sound of lightning bolt.
A good Drums/Space for those who enjoy those.
I went to both nights, it was a good time in the Pyramid.

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In reply to by icecrmcnkd

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thanks DV - really enjoyed getting reacquainted with this RT. Disc 2 in particular had been lost in the ether. Jam out of Not Fade Away has that raw Caution energy that showed up next year in Europe.

bonus disc from 11/14 Ft.Worth later this morning. that's been like forever.

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You lucky dog, those Memphis Pyramid shows were off the hook. I listen to them from time to time, best of that spring run IMO.

Right on Bluecrow.

I have had to go back and pick up some of the RT Trips that I missed in the past and this one definitely shined for me.

So much great music out there, keep it coming.

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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BlueCrow 5/26/95 is a really sweet show. Dug that, wouldn't mind giving the rest of that run a listen, but sounds like the Sunday show was the highest.
Now ConeKidd talking 4/2/95.
I'm stuck in the mid 90s :)

Actually was able to check out a majority of 7/19/74. Wow!
Don't think I noticed the patch in Let It Grow @ 10:15-11:17 sounded like it needs a lil pitch correction?
But.. what a show.
Thanks for suggesting it DV.

Gonna try and head over to Texas '71 today and see what I been missing.
And then I believe 3/26/72 was a mention as well.

We'll see where the day takes me. But dug the '74 trip.
Of note: Taper's Compendium lists shows to get from '74 as 2/24, 3/23, 6/16, 6/18, 6/23, 6/26, 6/28, 7/19, 9/10, 9/11, 9/20, 10/16, 10/18, 10/19 and between, Dick's, Dave's, Road Trips & GD Movie Sndtrck each of these shows has seen some type of release with the exception of 9/20.
Might have to dust that one off soon.

Good stuff!

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In reply to by The Good Ole G…

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Just some parts of it.

I followed 4-2 with 4-1, which has a Take Me To The River (Pyramid Arena sits on the bank of the Mississippi).
Those were the only shows I saw in spring 95 and they were pretty good.
Give them a play if you have never heard them.

And if you have never heard 3-23-95 give it a play. Has Ole Brucy sitting in and is mighty fine.

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I just finished listening to the complete 1972 Academy of Music seven shows. (Was at 3) . Had never even heard most of the tapes. I own the Dicks Picks 30 CD plus the Dave’s Picks 14. Do not have the Rockin the Rhein bonus disk with Dark Star. It was quite a journey of seven shows seven days in a row. 3/22/72 has Caution and 3/23/72 has a 23 minute Dark Star.
Also listened to 50th Anniversary of 3/14/71 today. Short but sweet. Organ strong in the mix. Also hollow sound of the Camp Randall Field House. Different sound from Capitol Theater to Fillmore West to Wisconsin, same five musicians. Also progression with new songs and five piece.
So far have listened to all the 1971 GD available on relisten on the 50ths . Real phun.

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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Haven't listened to this in at least a couple of years. #830, one of the first with a lower number, not that it matters.
Thanks for checking it out all.

I love the picture of the boys and the Wall on the back of the liner notes, so cool!
Just can't imagine what it would have been like to see them with the Wall of Sound. And some of you lucky people did and are still here to talk about it.

This show is solid, not the best 74 show released to date, but good. I really like the He's Gone into US Blues, WRS, Spanish Jam into Eyes and a good finish. I can not hear that patch in Let is Grow, GOGD, but my ears sometimes don't pick those up.

Dave's #38, coming up around the corner.

Everybody hang loose.

Pretty cool Strider, March 72, that must have been fun.

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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The Other One

Smokes!

Dug it / Dig it

Happy Birthday Phil!

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In reply to by The Good Ole G…

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5 smoking craters :)

that whole 11/14 bonus disc is excellent. weekend listen totally reset my appreciation for RT 3.2.

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In reply to by JimInMD

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Two Fer it is Jim.
Download Series 6 and Dick's 13. 68 and 81. Thanks guys and Happy St. Patrick's Day.

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Time to get green eh? Cough, cough....

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In reply to by Oroborous

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Alright OB... I might have to get my green on for St. Pat's.

Part 1 of Two-fer done.

Cool stuff!

Think it'd be cool if we got a seaside chat tomorrow?

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In reply to by bluecrow

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Crazy Night!

3/31/86 is groovy.

Dug the Caution Jam on DiP V13, bet that Severson version is fun too!
I should prob check that out.

GOGD - I went with the Severson because it was taped from the penalty box, but went back to sample some of the others and think Wise source is better.

PF - rarely wander into '86 but yeah 3/31 looks fun and if you say so :)

(crowd chanting) - Seaside chat!! Seaside chat!!

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In reply to by bluecrow

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Thanks for the Jim Wise recommendation, I'll try and give that a spin.
3/31/86 is a great/fun show, had that tape BITD, that Hand Jive is my favorite and the jam after GDTRFB is epic.
Def worth a visit and good call PF, I enjoyed that!
And I don't know guys, I might like 5/8/81 better.
Slid on that PITB and it rips from there, great Stella Blue too.
Might have to go through that whole show. May '81 & March '86
Good times & good picks today, good day of the green :)

Seaside Chat! Seaside Chat!

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In reply to by The Good Ole G…

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3/17/68 delivered. Short but packed with lysergic energy. Got the first set of 5/6 under my belt. Time to turn the lights down and get down to it.

Seriously.. I had forgotten how off the hook 3/17/68 was. We need more 1968.. if Lemieux keeps stonewalling us I am storming the vault. Who's with me?

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In reply to by JimInMD

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Kudos to you Jim for the great pick for today, Dick's Picks #13. And of course your recall of the Irishman at the start of He's Gone. Pretty powerful. They didn't do many dedications throughout their career.
And this release always delivers. And the hidden Scarlet Fire is not too shabby either. Okay, as an American Irishman, better crack my first beer and I loved the Irish jokes on the other thread.

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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....give me a trebuchet and a lighter and let me do what I do.
I didn't listen to the GD today.
edit.....but I still have time.

Now we're talking. To ensure the right message on cable news, we will need a few thousand volunteers too.. equipped with pitchforks, torches and "Free The Reels" t-shirts and baseball caps.

Who thinks we'll get a Seaside Chat today?!?!

If not today, than maybe next week.

5/6/81 is far out.
It's eluded me on many listens.
Don't get me wrong, love May '81.
And I always liked the jam, but was scratching my head a bit on why this got the nod for release.
I'd listen and shrug, and go and read the Taper's Compendium and reviews and everybody loves it, so I'd think that it was just me being a weirdo.

However, when I went back and listened to the Jim Wise audience recording yesterday, I was totally getting it.
Now, it coulda been the headspace of later in the day vs first thing in the day.
But, this is kind of a first for me, which is why I'm writing about it, cause you know, you listen to a band for 35 years and you still have firsts... that's exciting!

I've read many reviews of people saying they dug the audience recording more because something was missing for them from the SBD.
Being a SBD snob, I kinda dismissed this as nonsense.
But this show might just change my mind.
That all being said, listening to the SBD with a new appreciation and still love that jam after He's Gone.
Good pick!

PS - If you missed 3/31/86 yesterday... Do it!

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In reply to by The Good Ole G…

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Hey, have you ever listened to the official release?

I don't think we will hear anything on the box for a while. Maybe not until May. Hope I am wrong.

Looking back a couple of years for 2019, the Giants Stadium Box was announced on August 1, 2019 and the PNW Box was slated to be announced on August 1, 2018, but it somehow leaked before the announcement.

Do you think we will get a Meet Up At The Movies this year?

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DeadVikes - Mos Def!
That's kinda what I was talking about, I'd listen to the official release and be like.. ok.
But I think I'm feeling the magic even more after visiting that Jim Wise audience.

Just rambling, but I liked this show before, but I think I like it more now.

And in regards to the Seaside Chat, DL posted a picture of an Eagle that he spotted the other day while he was "recording a seaside chat" so I'm thinking we might hear something soon... guess we'll see.

I'm anxious for more GD release news.

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I saw Weir dedicate He's Gone to Len Bias at the Greek in 1986 and I saw Kreutzman dedicate it to Paul Butterfield at Laguna Seca n 1987. Kreutzman had been playing some gigs with Butterfield.

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In reply to by The Good Ole G…

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Interesting. Could be the Seaside Chat for #38.

But, hey, bring on the Box. I am ready for sure.

I might have to check out the audience version of 5/6/81, if you think it sounds even better.

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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Yo DVikes, so not sure it's better... (still a SBD snob)
But definitely give the Jim Wise recording of that show a preview.
I didn't listen to the whole thing, but it just has a different life to it.
I've heard people mention that about Audience recordings before, and this is one of those shows that it's really cool to hear the "live" aspects of.
Gives it new life ;)
Plus Jim got a sweet pull that night.
Nassau must've been a hot time that year fo sure!

And Yeah, peeps were telling me it's too early for a Dave's Picks Announcement... so maybe we'll get some Box news :)

Strider - I need to dust off that 3/18/71 at some point

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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give up the box
oh, we need the box
we gotta have that box

my money is WAITING, ptb

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Whooo - I love that Tivoli show! Good choice!

I think I might check out 3/19/86 for a bit too. The SQ of the copies I've found are not great (the AUDs are ok, the SBD of Set 1 sounds really muffled to these ears...). However, strong 2nd set, and the first Visions of Johanna (a very sweet one too...)

Also, let's not forget about Winterland 77! An embarrassment of riches!

Have a good one, friends!

Peace

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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Playing ketchup...
3/18/71 as we speak,
then circle back for a better taste of 5/6/81 disc 3, then, at some point I’ll hit 4/14/72.
That 81 has really grown on me over the years. Hope real gone puts that out again as I only have a copy and
A) really dig this show, and B) I’m down to missing hard copies of around 8 DiPs, so hope they keep rereleasing em so I can Phil that hole...forgot about the hot S/F! Where’s that from again?
Could use a big 72 DS, but I MUST get outside today!
I’ve been starting to walk outside when I can (the treadmills not the same...) and it’s probably hitting 60 up here and I’ve been slacking, so.....so the 72 might have to be “on deck” until appropriate time is available.
Yeeshk, also have a whole list of groovy 90s ideas from y’all, oh, and that 3/31/86 too, Doooaahh!
If I’m up for it, maybe I’ll see if there’s more spring 86 shows on YouTube as I enjoyed 3/19 last Friday night.
I’ve also got a few shows I marked that I thought looked like possible off the grid shows for a day when we don’t have anything lined up...

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In reply to by billy the kid

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Len Bias.. a fine Terrapin, and a tragedy.

Gotta admit the incident gave me a different outlook on that drug. Weird memories, that hit close to home.

I'm in. What's not to like about this show. 4/17 is awesome too.

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In reply to by Oroborous

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Just watched that 3/19/86 on YouTube last week, the video is decent considering, but the Audio was pretty good (at least using Auro 3D?)

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In reply to by Oroborous

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Lotsa Caution this week.
Diggin' it.

4/14/72 you say? Ok.

Another good spring '86 is Set 2 from 3/28/86 for those '86ers out there.

Good times and great oldies!

Happy Friday Freaks :)

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TGIF

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In reply to by Strider 808808

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A favorite Pig tune. Under the right conditions it simply blows me away, and how about the Phil factor!.. I haven't gotten there yet for 4.14.... tomorrow.

The Caution from 3/17/68 was spectacular. (well, the China Cat>Eleven>Caution to be exact). Shit that hole mini show left a smoking crater.

When I first listened to the E72 box it was the Dark Star Caution sequences that had my tongue unrolling out of my mouth onto the gravel below my feet. Wowwow stuff.

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In reply to by JimInMD

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back ca. '82 got a very hissy nth generation board of Rotterdam from Dark Star through Uncle Johns. The oddest tape, the VU meter was maxed out on one channel, the needle barely moved on the other, yet through the hiss it was still "balanced." Originally it was tough to get past the oddities of the tape to the music itself. One long hot summer night about 2 am I threw it in a half-assed cassette player, put on a cheap pair of headphones, and turned out the lights. hiss? what hiss? total time machine. came out on the other side just completely and utterly gobsmacked. among other "things" that blew my mind was that Caution and Phil with the pile driver bass. OMFG. totally rewrote what little I thought I "knew" about E72. at the time maybe only other circulating Europe show I had was the Radio Luxemburg broadcast.

side note - Phil quotes Bird Song in the drifting aftermath of the Dark Star meltdown. Bird Song was MIA Fall 71 through Europe.

edit - some neurons appear to have been crossed regarding 3/18 and I can't sort it out without a deep dive in my vault which isn't happening anytime soon.

Onward (into the ether)!