Grateful Dead

Interesting to me that all ( well, lets say most, to be on the safe side) of Robert Hunter's songs were definitively interpreted by other people, not himself. His own records always felt more like fringe benefits to me, rather than A1 records.
And of those that sang his songs, Jerry Garcia was surely the one who seemed most in tune with the words he was singing. In fact when he was singing them-at his peak - it seemed he was expressing his own world view in song, rather than someone else's. I guess that is the mark of all great interpretive singers.

Gary, I always refer to the festival as Hollywood, Newcastle under Lyme, but all of your additions (aka) are also correct, they simply locate the space more specifically...(and Space is the place!)
But did the Dead play London directly afterwards? My understanding is that prior to72 they only played twice in Europe, the Chateaux in France and later Hollywood. I have read that they played in London, but I have always thought this to be incorrect ( wild horses wouldnt have kept me away if they were to play in my Hood!)
Did they actually play or was this a hastily cobbled together plan which fell through? An urban myth....? We know that the Lyceum shows in 72 were added as the tour progressed, and shows planned for the Rainbow/Finsbury Park Astoria fell through...perhaps Simonrob knows more?

Deadbase shows they Played 1970/05/25 in London with Fleetwood Mac. I think that is enlickely. I think they planned to go back to London for a couple of days. You know, make the long trip, might as well see the historical sights while there. I mean history of England, and history of the other psychedelic scene. Hunter says on the documentary (which I am going to watch again as I have it on my dvr) that the rest of the entourage went out for the day and left him with a case of wine in his room alone. While looking out on the bustling streets of London he felt a peaceful wave (my words) overcome him and the muse directed him to pen the lyrics to those three songs.

Therefore, I am guessing a promoter at the Hollywood Festival started talking to Jerry (or another) where it was explained they would be in London for some period. It might have only been 2-3 days tops. No one knows for sure. So I think this promoter was trying to set up an impromptu gig for the next day after Hollywood. Maybe it was too much work to get down and get announced and get ticket sales, so it fell through. My guess is the fellas were leaving next day on the 26th, so another date would not work. Workingman's was released within a few days of the Festival, in May.

Deadbase shows the first To Lay Me Down was on 1970/07/30. It only shows an accoustic set so I am assuming an electric set is lost. This show was at the Fillmore West (Avalon Ballroom???, cant remember if that was the previous name) with NRPS. The first Ripple and Brokedown were on 1970/08/18 with NRPS. This occurred at the Matrix, wow what a small venue for that show. Even better, accoustic Ripple into Brokedown.

I have never heard any of these shows. I think when Writing the Book of the Deadheads (Grushkin Basset, Grushken), they along withthe guys at Deadbase began going back to research shows. Who knows. As they went thru the archives of material they put together a lot of the non documented things. So I think these were the folks that probably stumbled on things that didnt have the right documentation. So Stand Lyceum London almost certainly did not happen. You say yourself, you would have made it for sure!!!

Hope that helps from the little bit of knowledge I have. Two England shows before E72. There is still so much to uncover with this band. Sometimes it makes my head swim.

G

Hey Oro - How are efforts going to contain that wild fire just beyond your property? How many acres is it now, and are you near an evacuation situation? Stay safe, my friend!

AJS - Two good choices to build a team around. When Seattle comes in next season, like Vegas before them, they should have some premium guys to pick from for Season 1. When I head over to Vancouver to see my son who lives there, I’ll definitely coordinate it so I can make the trek down to Seattle to see the Kraken.

Do or die for the Isles tonight. Tampa Bay is a powerhouse, but the Isles are the proverbial flies at a picnic - pesky, and always in your face. Tomorrow, Vegas has the same challenge, but I keep thinking they are the far superior team, I feel like they just let the Habs get in their head.
Man, I love playoffs.

Oro be safe. Hate the west gets so many fires. Hoping for rain your way!

I think you may have it backwards when you write that "Jerry Garcia ... seemed most in tune with the words he was singing... it seemed he was expressing his own world view in song, rather than someone else's. I guess that is the mark of all great interpretive singers."

Moment, please. No criticism, but a few thoughts... I would suggest that the effect you cite is actually proof of Hunter's songwriting genius: that he could pen the words that would sound like Jer's worldview when Jer sang them. I say this because Jer was Hunter's first "puppet singer" (coined a phrase!) and songwriting collaborator of any note. Hunter could write in a universal manner and, yes, Jer made the sentiments sound universal, but Hunter also wrote specifically for the man, Jerry Garcia, and from that man's view of the world. THAT is Hunter's genius and genesis, not Jer's. I mean Jer rightly gets his due, but at the spark of creation, the thoughts and words are Hunter's. I believe that, at times, Jer has said as much.

Maybe splitting hairs or turning things inside out, but these thoughts occurred to me as you indeed lauded Hunter.

And remember, Hunter essentially was a solo artist, versus Garcia, who had one band perennially surrounding him. Hunter, like Dylan, merely assembled the cast he needed each time he entered the studio, in order that each effort would sound unique.

That is all.

Cant wait for Gary and Dave and another great show I’ve not yet heard!

PF, sorry bud, of course only kidding, shamelessly always going for the laugh.
I know your a good sport so didn’t think you’d mind...

Gary & Mike, thanks. It’s about 10 miles from us. Not in danger currently, but close enough to get ya thinking. Saw flames reflecting off the clouds first night. Nearest closure is about half way. Think it’s only about 4K acres so far but shifting (waiting on updates)...they called in one of the best national teams and more big hardware. So far the winds been mostly good, but if it shifts, there’s a ton of fuel and a clear path back to town, so I think their getting more serious about it...possible rain tomorrow night and Friday, let’s hope!

NHL playoffs, crazy how fast things can change.
What ever happens there’s been some great games!

Ok, show time!

Daverock - Great point. Jerry was a better interpreter of songs because he, unlike Hunter, has a melodic delivery. Hunter would write the overall structure but not always with the melody. Jerry is good with the melody.

Hunter and Dylan are similar that way - great songwriters, but others had a more melodic delivery on their work.

I remember and interview with Jerry about Dylan songs, said something like "Dylan's songs have great melodic sense but Dylan doesn't always sing it."

It’s the little things like Gallagher busting his ass down the ice to nullify an icing call that the casual fan may not appreciate.

Funny you mention seeing a game out west. Our family did the Seattle-Vancouver run last year. The Canucks were only in town for one night. It turns out that the Sea to Sky gondola had just reopened after being closed for a year due to vandalism. So we chose to head up to Squamish. It was spectacular and I am glad we made choice. Unfortunately, we made the additional drive up to Whistler since it was so close and missed the game. Just yesterday watching the game my daughter turns to me and says, “I really wish we saw a Canucks game. Whistler was too touristy.”

Saw him perform once in early June 1984 at the Line Camp in Pojoaque , New Mexico when he was a member of the Dinosaurs. 🦕🦕🦕🦕. The liberty caps were just exactly perfect. The bass player Peter Albin and I talked some. He was interested if any communes were left. I remember Hunter sang Wild Bill (loves diamond Lil) . A few days later I went to Red Rocks for my first time. Three nights of good ol’ Grateful Dead. 1984 was a good year. Robert Hunter was the gnostic key of lyrical brilliance that made so much of the music of the Grateful Dead “glow with the gold of sunshine”.

Dave, spring that seaside chat on us tomorrow.

Have you seen the movie Strange Brew with Bob and Doug McKenzie?

Bob drinks an entire tank of beer and then puts out a large fire by peeing on it.

Just saying……

Good luck!

I did see a Canucks game when I visited my son shortly after he moved to Vancouver. It was a blast, I love seeing games in other towns. Seattle will make for a great double header with the Kraken, in that I can easily see a game in BC then head down to Seattle for a game.

Speaking of Squamish (pretty town) - the Dead were supposed to play a music festival there shortly after Woodstock, but bailed based on their performance at Woodstock. And your daughter is so right - Whistler is way way too touristy. Great for skiing, and mountain biking in the summer, but crazy expensive.

Oro - I’m glad to hear things are safe your way. I was reading you guys have been cursed with all kinds of wildfires, most appear to have been caused by lightning, so here is hoping for rain and lots of it, out your way.

.... you cost me a fortune today with your Joni post!!!

Thanks for the head's up.

did anyone find anywhere, how many the purple vinyl set was "limited" to?

Hendrixfreak - yes, so you are saying that Robert Hunter wrote the lyrics with the foreknowledge that Jerry would be singing them-and this informed what he wrote? It does sound likely. Maybe the overall effect of listening to the songs is to witness the symbiosis-if that's the right word - of two great artists working in unison.

Thin - I have always sensed a similarity in approach between Robert Hunter and Dylan. I don't actually have that many Robert Hunter solo albums-Rumrunners is one I do have though, and that fits the bill. It has It Must Have Been The Roses on, of course-very different from the version on Garcia's solo album - Hunters version has a much rougher sound, as I remember it.

Regarding Robert Hunter live-I believe he came to England and played some solo shows-maybe around 1981.I think he may have played at Glastonbury-or maybe some London dates. Unfortunately I didn't find out about it until he had gone back, whatever happened.

First, lets clear up a couple of points of confusion:

In England, there are two Newcastles, namely Newcastle upon Tyne and Newcastle-under-Lyme.
Newcastle upon Tyne is on the north east coast of England. The Grateful Dead played there on April 11, 1972 - the third show of their Europe '72 tour.
Newcastle-under-Lyme is in the English midlands, approximately mid way between Birmingham and Manchester. Leycett is a small place a few miles west of Newcastle-under-Lyme and is where the Hollywood Festival was held on May 23 & 24, 1970 The Grateful Dead played on May 24.

Regarding the alleged show at the Lyceum in London on May 25, 1970, a lot of the confusion over this show is almost certainly down to the fact that the Grateful Dead performed at the Lyceum on May 23, 24, 25 & 26, 1972 NOT 1970.

That cleared up, we can move on to the show on May 25, 1970. This show may have been tentatively planned but all the evidence suggests that it never took place. There is a website called concertarchives which lists shows at various venues including the esteemed Lyceum. There is no show listed at that venue on May 25, 1970 but the New Riders of the Purple Sage and the Grateful Dead are listed as playing there for 4 shows on May 23, 24, 25 & 26, 1972 which we all know and love as this was part of the Europe '72 tour. Furthermore, here on dead.net, under the show archive is a page dedicated to The Strand Lyceum, May 25, 1970 where doubt is expressed as to whether this show actually happened. 3 of 4 posters are pretty sure it didn't happen and the fourth confuses the date with May 25, 1972. D'oh. I am sure there are plenty of other sites that reference this show but I have seen nothing to suggest that it really did take place.

Thanks Simon for succint clarification, said better, and with more knowledge, than I could. ( Im still chuckling to myself about badkamer!)

England 1970....

Go to youtube.
Type this in the search box: Grateful Dead, China-Rider jam, England 1970

You'll find a ripping video clip, albeit brief, of The Dead performing live, outdoors in England.

There's also a Garcia interview, during the E72 tour, where Garcia discusses playing in England, in 1970....

This China jam from 1970 is a smoker. Check out Garcia's boots!! You will plainly see that is Garcia and the boys in 1970. Not 72... (plus Mickey is there)

Here's the full setlist

Casey Jones
China
Rider
Hard to Handle
Me and My Uncle
Cryptical
Drums
Other One
Cryptical
Attics
Good Lovin
Cold Rain
Dark Star
St. Stephen
NFA
GDTRFB
NFA
Lovelight

Looks like the new release will be Johnny Cash at the Carousel Ballroom 04/24/1968.

Skull 'n Roses is on the way!

I named my dog hosehead

Personally, I'm stoked to get the remastered S&R with the extra '71 material. Perhaps its appearance in our mailboxes will release Dave to announce the box. (Six shows from fall '72 or give me vintage Grease, please. Translation: spring '69.)

Then there's a Jer show coming out that I attended with friends in Nov. '91 at MSG.
Tedeschi-Trucks Band issue a live version of their take on Layla, 19 July.
'Course we don't yet know DP 39, which should drop at the end of July.
Remastered All Things Must Pass arrives in August.
Plus, I've got some old Dylan albums on order, which arrive any time.

Clearly, this leaves little time for working and crap like that....

Thanks Brownie for the Bear Update, will have to get that one. Saw the Man in Black a couple of times. Can't wait to hear that.

JSJay: Yep that is from the Hollywood Festival. Will have to look that up as I have not Seen it.

SimonRob - thanks for the update and the additional information. Knew we could count on you to shed additional light on the subject. Newcastle upon Tyne and Newcastle-Under-Lyme. They sound like two sisters from an old country song, down where I am located in Hicksville (j/k). Or maybe the name of one woman, depends how you See it. Kind of like "Yor Cheatin Heart." "I thought she was a Newcastle upon Tyne but turned to be a Newcastle-Under-Lyme." Of course Lyme or lime is what killers/murders use to dispose of their victim. "Don't Murder Me."

That old Tony BollWeevil mad a heck of a Shot.

:)))

....My second Dave's 38 glass arrived today packed in bubble wrap intact!!
Thanks tptb for listening.
Plus, rumor has it that Vegas is starting Cody Glass toknight at center.
Bodes well, if I believed in coincidences.

Both hit my Saint Paul mailbox today.

Dennis, you're welcome! We'll be broke (but happy) together. Similarly, HendrixFreak has me wondering if I need ANOTHER remaster of All Things Must Pass . . .

I’ve had a good friend from there for many years. The Geordie accent is unique. Hell of man, salt of the Earth. Eric Burden is a native of there. He turned 80 May 11. I fricken love the Animals. Why he even mentioned the Grateful Dead in his song “Monterey”.
As much as I love All Things Must Pass, I do have the 30th anniversary remix. Brilliant beautiful album.
Johnny Cash at the Carousel Ballroom, thank you Bear, wherever you are or are not. Saw Johnny Cash with the Highwaymen in Las Cruces in 1990. Now that was a trip, while tripping. June Carter Cash was introduced from her seat between me and the stage. Her white chiffon dress and smile as bright as a lighthouse beacon as she stood up, turned around and waved is permanently etched in my memory.
The latest JJ installment of Good ol Grateful Deadcast was really interesting.

Shattering news, VGuy!

(Sorry about that, Chief!). I’m glad the “other” glass came through.

Good luck tonight!

The Owsley Stanley Foundation appears to have all (5) reels of the GD's show on 10 Dec '72 and at least one has been digitally transferred, so I hold out hope that the missing reel to 19 Sept '72 is with the OSF and they've told me they're keeping an eye out for it... So, yeah, the next installment of Bear's Sonic Journals is indeed Mr. Cash at the Carousel. I wonder if anyone had the cajones to dose him...

As for All Things Must Pass, I had the vinyl back when it came out and haven't purchased any CD versions/remasters in the intervening 51 years, so I thought I'd treat myself to the 50th rehash. Frankly, I hope they thinned out Spector's Wall of Sound so we can hear the damn thing clearly.

The new Harvey Brooks autobio just showed up with some Dylan backpages: Street Legal, Before the Flood and Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid.

There is a first print of Anthem over at the bay that has a buy now of $40. In case anyone is looking for that. I would buy it myself, but I have a lot of vinyl and I do have a turn table but it has been 35 years since it was actually hooked up. Once I went more digital I decided to not look back.

Strider - Gnosis key is a great phrase turner (gnosis being knowlege in Greek - or a deeper understanding is to aquire knowlege by experience or trial and error). There are others that take it deeper but I tend to use another greek word for that wisdom. I do believe Mr. Hunter had a much larger influence than many people realize. If memory serves, his first pen was Dark Star. You can tell he was a deep thinker and book reader, his understanding of the deeper things in life shines thru in so many ways.

Man in Black - the band I talk about sometimes, in 1994, I think, had the picture of Mr. Cash giving the finger on the back side of their tour laminates.

Nice work Snafu.

I bought the movie on DVD years ago and still watch it once a year.

Have the VHS, need to see if I can stream it, been ages. Ooooo lockoo Koo, ka, coockoo koo, aaaaaa, or what ever that sing song sound they make lol, Take Off eh!
I’d post a you no what, but....ahem

Raining a little at last, phew, was thinking I might have to take Conekids advice ; )

Still remember the Bob and Doug call from my teen years, and still use it when in a crowd or store or the woods to call my wife and kids.

....I love that movie. When they pour their dad's last beer from Hosehead's dog food bowl back into a glass has me rolling every time.
Alrighty then. Time to beat that pesky Canadian team. Onward!!!
Rained pretty heavy in Vegas today. It was a welcome sight.

The bank teller (twentysomething) complimented it

:)))

Paris

Weird Weir almost or is non existent in the mix

Curious

Tie-dye curious?

Also listening to 6 21 71

9 9 74 decent
9 10 74 dixpix
9 11 74 yes
9 14 74 gotta hear it again
9 18 74 grrrreat
9 20 74 strong
9 21 74 pretty alright

Now open the damn border, so I can go to Montreal.

I chortled my beer when I read that.

I saw Johnny Cash in 1988, when he came to Manchester. He played Big River, which was the first time I had heard him sing it. A great, and for me at that time, unusual concert. He seemed to play his better known songs in the first half of the evening, with his band, and then for the second half he invited members of his family on stage to sing and dance. Vert different from the standard rock gig of the day.

Going on from Gary's observation that Robert Hunter was well read, the lyrics of Dark Star seem influenced by T.S.Eliot's " The Love Song Of J Alfred Prufrock." The first three lines of the poem are -
" Let us go then, you and I, / When the evening is spread out against the sky / Like a patient etherised upon a table;"

Hey VGuy - Sorry for all the Get Smart references, but no need to cover the mirrors in the house and light candles, and only black clothing - your GK did great. One of the premier teams in the league, in such a short time. My Toronto Maple Duds have gone since the days New Potato Caboose was in regular rotation for Pigpen & the boys without winning the Cup. Our motto: There’s always next season.

Great series. Now, Isles, finish off the Bolts, and let’s put an end to this Habs madness.

One of the all time greatest soundtracks ever. The movie is brilliant also.
Anthem of the Sun, first print, I was thinking the incredible art print from Bill Walker. I had to read the fine print. Vinyl. Now if I had bought two of every poster and album I ever owned from 1967 through 1971 and placed one of every mint copy in a time capsule I’d be driving a ........ and living in a .......... And if my aunt, never mind.
The time I saw the Highwaymen in Las (crudes) (sic- thank you Kinky Friedman) Johnny Cash sang Big River and Kris Kristofferson sang Me and Bobby McGee. Waylon and Willie were pretty dang bueno also.
Here in southwest New Mexico, Fire on the Mountain. And the last three nights, Mountains of the Moon.

Daverock, great observation on Dark Star and Hunter's influences, your posts are always so intelligent and we'll thought out. Hunter and Garcia were both really smart guys and were influenced by lots of different sources. Your lucky you got to see Johnny Cash, he was definitely bigger then life, what a great musician.

My Garcia Live 16 has arrived from Crozet Va. I threw in a couple Tiger pint glasses for good measure.

Time to break out the Cone of Silence so I can enjoy my first listen uninterrupted...
I'm a struggling man
and I've got to move on....

I was thinking the same thing,,, the amount of stuff that is coming in right now!!!

Just ordered the Tim Buckley Owsley show,,,, don't know how that one got by me. Guess Johnny isn't ready for ordering.

My Mingus at Carnegie Hall came in the other day,,, very nice. Vinyl is next month.

Purple Zappa came yesterday!!

The Jerry show is coming via mail innovations,,,, who knows when ,,, says it's coming. Guess Jim paid off someone to get so quick!

And we should be hearing about DaP 39!

Like that old song,,,,,, It's raining music.....

JIMINMD: I would like to hear your scouting report on the new Garcia 16, once you get a chance to listen to it. Mine generally sit at Customs for days, while the Mounties scan it for contraband.
Siegfried - “This is KAOS. We don’t Shush here!” (I actually saw Bernie Kopell in a small dinner theatre play (“Viagara Falls”) that the wife and I went to, and every time he spoke, I’m thinking “Get Smart”. Best show ever, and 99, hottest agent ever!

I love vinyl, but I love good sound even more. People tend to assume that the first vinyl pressing is going to be the best-sounding version of a given release, but that’s not always the case, especially with older recordings. I’ve got lots of old Chess blues records that I collected decades ago, that I never listen to, because they don’t hold a candle to the CD reissues, fer example. With Anthem, I think the recent 50th anniversary thing sounds waaaay better than the original lp. Part of it, for me, is that I actually prefer Phil’s 1971 remix. (Most of the time.) If you just want to own Anthem as a physical object, sure, pay $40 (or more) for a first issue vinyl, which would be a bitchen THING to have. But if you want to hear the music, the CD’s better, IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, ROFL, yadda yadda.
Bob Hunter was truly one hep dude. One of the heppist. I’ve always loved the nod to Eliot in “Dark Star.” Also fun to note: in closing verse of “Attics,” we get the line “When the secrets all are told/and the petals all unfold.” Now, from what I’ve been told, “apocalypse,” in Greek, means “an uncovering,” and can be used to describe the unfolding of a flower, which is the kind of thing Robert Hunter would definitely have known. So this is a really really hip way to reference the end of time, I think. Just one example of why Hunter’s lyrics added such incredible depth and resonance to the Dead’s music.
It definitely is raining music these days. Having failed in my Record Store Day quest to acquire the Olympia vinyl set, I figured it’s only fair and karmicly correct that I blow the roughly $130 I did NOT spend there on other music, so I’ve recently acquired the ABB’s Fillmore West ’71 thing, and deluxe edition of their Bear’s Sonic Journals release. As if 7 discs worth of Duane-era ABB wasn’t enough to keep me busy, I also ordered fresh-from-the-vaults items from Neil (Down in the Rust Bucket) and Can (Live in Stuttgart). Oh yeah, also a couple Tedeschi Trucks concerts I ordered from nugs. So, if anybody needs me, I’ll in front of the stereo.

"Kaos used to be such a fun aw-ganization..." Schteigart on Get Smart, speaking in Brooklyn-ese!

Gents, I believe I paved the way with my "Moment, please" to Daverock.

Of course, I was one-upped by the "Craw, not Craw!" which is definitely not PC, but funny as hell. Thanks to Mel Brooks and Buck Henry.

Didn't know we had Smart-heads on this forum. And, um, yeah, 99 was THE hottest. And the Cone of Silence, especially the PORTABLE CoS, was the best ever.

GarciaLive 16 and S&K due here today... Time to break out the Cone! Er, headphones.

....disappointed? Of course. But thats sports for ya. You know what you're signing up for.
Skull & Roses out for delivery.
Now excuse me. My shoe is ringing.

But that clears the deck for a box announcement, well before # 39 gets trotted out.

Sorry Vguy, I dialed the wrong number. I was trying to get JimMD's kayak shoe. But it's busy.....