Dave's Picks Vol. 38: Dave’s Picks Vol. 38: Nassau Coliseum, Uniondale, NY 9/8/73

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April 30, 2021 - 9:20am

1,805 replies

Dead Admin

Joined:
April 28, 2021

"When it came to 1973 Dead, I was always drawn to the big second-set jams, 'Dark Star' or 'The Other One,' and all of the places those songs could go that year. One week during my initial stint with the Dead, Dick was spending a lot of time listening to 9/8/73, and he could not stop raving about it. He was very intent on pointing out that despite the absence of the 'Big Two' from 1973, every song, every solo, every moment was out-of-this-world excellent. He played me the first set, giving a play-by-play of each song and what made it special. In those listening sessions, Dick taught me a lot about how to listen critically and objectively. Of course, the subjective self always creeps in, those moments when you whoop and holler at how good a performance is, but that objective listening is critical. After many days of listening, Dick moved to other eras, as was his wont, since he carried the responsibility of selecting the best Dead shows from all eras to represent the Dead’s recorded legacy. But he made it clear and inarguable that he felt 9/8/73 was one of the best-played shows from one of the Dead’s best years." - David Lemieux

Despite the gloriously blustering artwork above, the forecast for DAVE'S PICKS VOLUME 38: NASSAU VETERANS MEMORIAL COLISEUM, UNIONDALE, NY, 9/8/73 is blazing hot! With a double endorsement from archivists Dick Latvala and David Lemieux, you know it's a MUST HAVE. This one's got inspired playing from start to finish, with soon-to-be-minted Wake Of The Flood classics, a first-ever "Weather Report Suite," Keith polishing his chops on "Let Me Sing Your Blues Away," Jerry tapping into era-defining sound with his Wolf guitar, and we'd be remiss if we didn't mention Bob's exquisite playing too.

Among our 2021 Dave's Picks subscribers? The subscribers-only bonus disc featuring nearly an hour and a half from 9/7/73 is coming your way too. (P.S. there's 35 minutes of 9/7/73 on Dave's Picks Vol. 38, to boot)

Limited to 25,000 numbered copies, DAVE'S PICKS VOLUME 38: NASSAU VETERANS MEMORIAL COLISEUM, UNIONDALE, NY, 9/8/73 was recorded by Kidd Candelaro and has been mastered to HDCD specs by Jeffrey Norman.

Didn't subscribe? You'll want to jump on this one now as it is guaranteed to sell out.

*2 per order. Very limited quantity available.

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May 19, 2021 - 12:03pm

#1361

Oroborous

Joined:
June 19, 2007

38 production issues cont....

Wow, lol, this is all over the place.
I’ve tried twice to go through with the intention of noting precise instances with pad and paper, but didn’t because I didn’t want to waste a whole day on this but it obviously needs to be done lol. The situation is the boss!
It’s a dirty job but somebody needs to do it, so guess that’s what I’m doing today lol.
First, a few reply’s in an attempt to clear some things up or perhaps get more of us on the same page?

- FIRST THE SOUND: there is nothing wrong with the “sound” of this, it’s some kind of production anomaly that hurts the “sound”
- THE LEVELS TOO HIGH: I don’t believe this is the problems since the peak level is at -1db, which is perfect. You’ll notice on discs that are over mastered set at 0db with hard compression to make them LOUDER. IMHO this style of mastering is obnoxious and sucks! There has been much discussion on this the last ten years or so about this elsewhere if your interested. I stopped buying “remastered” stuff after getting some Floyd and Stones Some Girls since they sound like shit. All their doing is compressing the hell out of the mix to make it louder, but that ruins the dynamic range, which is one of the most important elements of good music I.e., see the GD! Luckily, the GOGD folks don’t do this!
- BAD COMPRESSION: sometimes if the recording levels were too low there can be a bad signal to noise ratio. You’ve all probably heard this with a beloved tape that you have to turn up extra loud to hear, which then makes tape noise and hiss super noticeable. BITD sometimes folks would use a compressor. This cuts off some of the level peaks but boosts some of the quieter sounds, hopefully making the ratio of noise to sound more tolerable. But there are limits to how much you can use this method without causing hard compression or limiting which can cause the processor to distort.
This is referring to all analog too, digital is even more unforgiving about clipping etc. I wouldn’t think they’d use this methodology on a distributed piece of professional work, but it could be possible? If they wanted this show released bad enough and the tape was noisy...? And/or If they felt that the vast majority of people would never notice it, who knows?
- TYPICAL 73: agree, besides these issues, and perhaps some differences in the mix I.e., Bob is really nicely present, this sounds very 73...
- THE MIX: this is not the mix. Whatever your feelings are on the mix, that isn’t the problem
- THE USUAL: yes there are the “usual” “dropouts”, “unevenness”, etc, but none of these or the usual stuff people comment on, are the problem, this is different. In all my years I’ve never experienced this!
- WASHY: not sure what that means, but I doubt that’s it either. Washy sounds like more of the “normal” idiosyncrasies found on 50 year old non professionally recorded tape.
- WOBBLY: : same with this, not sure exactly what is meant as I’ve never heard it used in professional audio terms before lol, but I’m guessing it’s same as above in that it’s a “normal” item that occasionally is noticeable? If it’s meant in regards to variable tape speed issues, that is not the problem we’re referring to here.
-“IN THE BEGINNING”: this problem has nothing to do with the often occurrence of the mix taking awhile to be dialed in by the mixer etc.
DARK-STAR: though there is definitely a clipping factor here, I can assure you it’s not due to amplifier clipping. My MC 601 mono blocks have circuitry to prevent clipping, plus, I don’t push them that loud. That’s the whole point of having 600 watt amps, headroom! It’s all about phat tone, not volume! I don’t like super loud anymore, so I find around 90 db peaks or so at the listening position of about 7-8’ is plenty loud. At that volume, the amp meters usually are registering 60 watt peaks, so no where near clipping.
I’m curious what you mean about your equalizer “evening” out the sound besides the eq? I’m assuming you have some kind of limiter in the unit? I’m curious what unit your using? EQ itself has nothing to do with this problem.

A little info on EQ though: it is usually used for 1 of 2 reasons; professionally, it is used as little as possible to tune a room, like a studio or dedicated listening room using sophisticated analyzers and testing equipment.
The second general use is for preference; the way many of you use it to suit your personal taste influenced by the gear, and speakers/headphones your using. It is also used similarly to mix individual sources for live and recorded music. Though live EQ is also used for room issues, it is more often used to “color” sound to preference, not to make things accurate. Whole nother thing there that the reader can look up about accurate vs “good” sound...
But research increasingly shows that phase/timing issues are the biggest negative factor on sound and unfortunately EQ can cause unwanted phase issues. If you ever wondered why Mickeys studio stuff is the gold standard it’s because he doesn’t use EQ but instead painstakingly uses appropriate mics and mic placement. If you must use EQ, you should try to cut prominent frequency’s instead of boosting others. Like turn down the bass versus turning up the treble. You should never boost if possible. The little op amps in the knobs were not intended to be used as amplifiers, but that’s what your doing when you boost! Sorry, I don’t explain this stuff vert well. So if your having to boost all those upper frequencies, no offense, but you might have bad sounding speakers and/or significant hearing loss, something more common in us older folks than most might be aware of. Like you could have hearing loss and not even realize it unless you get tested! Of course all that really matters is if your happy with your rig, no matter how much or how little it costs etc, the only thing that matters is if your happy with it!
- SMALL BATCHES: I disagree that it’s not possible for damaged small batches. Yes their using the same master, that’s why it’s called a master, but that doesn’t mean that batches of blank/raw discs couldn’t be flawed or that somehow a setting got changed during the master transferring. I don’t think it’s the former but could be the latter?
It could be something as esoteric as there were weird power issues on the grid at the plant during part of the run? Again, I don’t think that’d be the case as any real professional facility would have isolated, professionally treated power, but it’s an example of the many weird things that can happen with electronics and electricity that most folks have no idea about.
HOW PEOPLE ARE LISTENING: what your listening on may well be a factor if your not hearing it, but I doubt this is caused by what your listening on. This is definitely a production issue, either on the original tape, or during the subsequent production.
I’m still wondering if they ever used a limiter and/or compressor on the original recording? It would make sense to have one since Kidd et el can’t be sitting there the whole time riding the mix like that. These guys had other responsibilities, so to ensure that something/someone doesn’t occasionally clip the recording, using a soft limit could smooth out those occasional peaks. But there are limits to this (no pun intended), if someone turns up significantly louder, it’ll still clip and can cause audible distortion by overdriving the limiter/compressor etc.
This to me would explain the phenomena. If your sharing a unit via a aux mix on a mixing console, that means everything, all sources potentially get bussed through that unit. If the unit isn’t set just right, any time anything engages the unit, there could be audible artifacts caused by this. That’s why I think this may be it, since it’s not effecting only one source, and it’s not everything all the time. It’s effecting most sources but not all the time...

LOL, being such an audio nut, not knowing what’s going on is more annoying to me than the actual problem, though I think it’s bad enough that I’ll need to look into replacements. It is definitely very interesting, at least to this geek!
Anyway, I’ll go through song by song and document as much as I can and report back.
May 19, 2021 - 11:23am

#1362

proudfoot

Joined:
August 2, 2020

GD, zits and all

play on
play on
play on
May 19, 2021 - 11:02am

#1363

That Mike

Joined:
November 1, 2014

A Sound Technician Walks Into A Bar…

Jeffrey Norman walks into a bar, and orders a beer. The bartender takes one look at him, and says, “Ok!! But I don’t want to hear any problems from you!!”
May 19, 2021 - 10:27am

#1364

stillwaters

Joined:
August 30, 2012

To All Those With Issues Regarding The Sound

Please read the caveat emptor for Dick's Pick's.

We now return to our regularly scheduled program.
May 19, 2021 - 9:45am

#1365

dreading

Joined:
January 17, 2018

AJS

I hear some loud hi-hat in places. Like the beginning of Jack Straw. If you get a chance can tell me if you hear the same kind of loud symbols on the "Big Railroad Blues" on PNW boxed set June 24, 1973 Portland? I sure do.
May 19, 2021 - 8:51am

#1366

Angry Jack Straw

Joined:
October 2, 2012

Sir James

That is pretty much what I currently have.

About 6-7 years ago, I was looking for a new car. Well, new to me. Buying a new car is one of the biggest rip-offs known to mankind. You are much better off purchasing a slightly used one for a 1/3 or more less. Anyway, I went about my search by bringing a copy of DaP1 to the dealerships. The whole point was that since I spend so much time in the car, I wanted a nice sound system. I would simply turn on the car and listen to the music. After a minute or so, the salesperson would ask if I was ready for a drive. "Not needed" I would reply to a perplexed look. "Thank you for your time." Most wanted thousands more for an upgraded sound system. I wound up going with Acura because the sound was excellent and the price was significantly lower.
May 19, 2021 - 8:18am

#1367

KeithFan2112

Joined:
August 6, 2014

Ha!

Jim, you had me at "There is really only one solution". I sensed some chortle-worthy shenanigans on the way.

Awesome Version Alert -

My favorite part of Casey Jones is the finale where they repeat the chorus a bunch of times and everyone joins in and plays "denser" I guess you would say. The combo of Pigpen's Hammond, Jerry and Bobby laying it on thick, and Keith's piano gradually building in tempo - it's just fantastic on this night.

I think Pigpen was really wielding that Hammond with some exceptional skill at that point. Never flashy, but he could play fast at need, was always on time, and always picked his spots with musical know-how. That was quite a period when they had both Keith and Pigpen playing together.

Edit - whoops - would help if I provided a date - 5/18/72. I'm still rummaging through that show.
May 19, 2021 - 8:04am

#1368

proudfoot

Joined:
August 2, 2020

lol moment last night

went to bed early
had my phone on archive 5/13/83 set two
she comes up later
I am asleep
Space is full steam
She hisses: "THIS IS THE WORST MUSIC I HAVE EVER HEARD!! THIS IS THE WORST MUSIC I HAVE EVER HEARD!!"

uh, ok. I'll just turn it off....
May 19, 2021 - 7:51am

#1369

JimInMD

Joined:
June 27, 2011

Re: AJS

Clearly you need the Wall of Sound Mobile Edition T (C) (R).

https://fi.pinterest.com/pin/382735668306627856/

Pimp up your ride.

(......honey, I got us a new car!)
May 19, 2021 - 7:45am

#1370

Angry Jack Straw

Joined:
October 2, 2012

Follow up

So, I listened to the release in the car this morning. Now I am more baffled by the fact that most folks can't seem to hear the distortion. The best way I can describe it, as I stated in my initial post, is that the cymbals are way to high in the mix. It's quite a nuisance. I also recant my earlier comment on the problem not being on the 9/7 release. It is very evident on HCS. Hell, even our dog can hear it.

It's a shame because it detracts from an otherwise fine release.

John Perry Barlow

John Perry Barlow

Forums

Dead Store Products

"When it came to 1973 Dead, I was always drawn to the big second-set jams, 'Dark Star' or 'The Other One,' and all of the places those songs could go that year. One week during my initial stint with the Dead, Dick was spending a lot of time listening to 9/8/73, and he could not stop raving about it. He was very intent on pointing out that despite the absence of the 'Big Two' from 1973, every song, every solo, every moment was out-of-this-world excellent. He played me the first set, giving a play-by-play of each song and what made it special. In those listening sessions, Dick taught me a lot about how to listen critically and objectively. Of course, the subjective self always creeps in, those moments when you whoop and holler at how good a performance is, but that objective listening is critical. After many days of listening, Dick moved to other eras, as was his wont, since he carried the responsibility of selecting the best Dead shows from all eras to represent the Dead’s recorded legacy. But he made it clear and inarguable that he felt 9/8/73 was one of the best-played shows from one of the Dead’s best years." - David Lemieux

Despite the gloriously blustering artwork above, the forecast for DAVE'S PICKS VOLUME 38: NASSAU VETERANS MEMORIAL COLISEUM, UNIONDALE, NY, 9/8/73 is blazing hot! With a double endorsement from archivists Dick Latvala and David Lemieux, you know it's a MUST HAVE. This one's got inspired playing from start to finish, with soon-to-be-minted Wake Of The Flood classics, a first-ever "Weather Report Suite," Keith polishing his chops on "Let Me Sing Your Blues Away," Jerry tapping into era-defining sound with his Wolf guitar, and we'd be remiss if we didn't mention Bob's exquisite playing too.

Among our 2021 Dave's Picks subscribers? The subscribers-only bonus disc featuring nearly an hour and a half from 9/7/73 is coming your way too. (P.S. there's 35 minutes of 9/7/73 on Dave's Picks Vol. 38, to boot)

Limited to 25,000 numbered copies, DAVE'S PICKS VOLUME 38: NASSAU VETERANS MEMORIAL COLISEUM, UNIONDALE, NY, 9/8/73 was recorded by Kidd Candelaro and has been mastered to HDCD specs by Jeffrey Norman.

Didn't subscribe? You'll want to jump on this one now as it is guaranteed to sell out.

*2 per order. Very limited quantity available.

Well,,,

They got rid of that original, weird post and they wiped out the reply by me and mhammond... which is fine.

Now where were we? It looks like they are cleaning house at deadnet.. having a sale to get ready for tomorrows box set announcement perhaps???

Actually.. they clearly are not going to do that until after the sale ends.

So...... 73 RFK? Ark? Fall '72? Winterland '77? All shows with a Day Job?

JimMD, I'll double down...

After a few discounted t-shirts are sold and the fireworks stop (literally), we're actually mighty close to DP # 39... in two weeks we'll be two weeks out. So I wonder if Dave is getting his rocks off holding back the box announcement or, more likely, there's some glitch in the process and Dave and TPTB don't want to announce a preorder until they've cleared certain hurdles, set pricing, etc. Obviously, I'm just guessing wildly in the absence of any facts -- not that that's ever deterred me before.

I guess I'll just go ahead and make the announcement myself! Six shows from fall/winter 1972, 18 discs, nice booklet, $199. Just send cash to P.O. Box Hendrixfreak. "I'm as honest as a Denver man can be, that's me...."

HF

Don't forget the sticker...

Dang

I knew I shouldnthve called that number

HF Prophecy

.....just take my damn money already.
I'm In.

and I'll include a local Sixtus token of appreciation in the postmarked envelope.
GFar, good to see you my man.

Hey Now Sixtus

Hope all is well your way. Things here are good. I am trying to do a better job of staying engaged instead of dropping in to read posts (i.e. a lurker biserker - as in Clerks). I think last count was 3 youngins, any more yet?

It’s a holiday folks...

Guessing folks there are away etc?
It is getting close to the next Dave’s though...
I’m guessing 8/30/80 offa that original possibilities list of Dave’s, cause, well,
why the hell not?

Think maybe the good ship Canada got hit by lightning and is going down.

And a fine holiday it's going to be

Less work (like that ever stopped us...). Nice comradery here lately.. agree, good to see you back gfar.. Oroborous appears caught up on his community service to stop in and stir up the pot.. HendrixFreak has mildly suggested a Fall '72 Box Set and given a polite, Canadian nudge that the box had better be fall '72, or else..

All seems ok with the world. Listened to 7/1/78 this afternoon and got a repeat of the 'first set' songs during Today in GD History on SiriusXM at 7. The planets seem aligned for some good ole Holiday spirit, even if it's not a holiday where you are.

Enjoy all..
There was a polite shout-out for 6/30/85 on the pick of the day thread. Nice, hot mid 80's show..

HAPPY HAPPY

NEXT>>>>there's no reason since its the only dead year i don't have anything from and maybe dig something 1986? i know most vomit n scoff but i need an 86 hehe. seriously though no reason for something 68-71ish would fit it right. something early,,,and the last one despite the continued just horrible art work no offense to artists has been playin non stop...lots june dead eyes of the world...love sugaree, the sing yer blues away, but whatever daves covers , been for me about 5 covers worth it... blah generic skeletons and do away with the dave's pick's banner,,,whatever let me do one , or anyone else on here,,, i can come up with something better, even the new garcialive with jerry's scribbles is better artwork. sorry negative just put a picture of the band on the front if if gonna be crappy kindergarten art...just think the music is worth classy art or non at all....but keep the jams flown

Just listened ....

To Skull & Roses again, the new one (nice clarity) -- I know, wrong thread, story of my life -- and I say this: on Wharf Rat, I hear piano (uncredited) and I hear Jerry's vocals coming from the studio, in addition to Merle's sweet organ playing...

I say Jer's vocals were re-recorded, and he's playing piano. I know, shocking! Pretty dang nice effect, but no way he sounds that good warbling live.

Anyone?

DLS Vol 10 7/21/72

comes a time....

You can't base your life on other people's expectations…..

50 years ago today…………

July 2, 1971
Fillmore West, San Francisco, California

Set 1: Bertha-Me And Bobby McGee-Next Time You See Me-China Cat Sunflower>I Know You Rider-Playing In The Band-Loser-The Rub-Me And My Uncle-Big Railroad Blues-Hard To Handle-Deal-Promised Land-Good Lovin'

Set 2: Sugar Magnolia-Sing Me Back Home-Mama Tried-Cryptical Envelopment>drums>The Other One-Big Boss Man-Casey Jones-Not Fade Away>Goin' Down The Road Feeling Bad>Not Fade Away

Encore: Johnny B. Goode

Deadicated to Phil Carson, because gooey greasy goodness……….

In life, one must sometimes temper one’s expectations with reality. And the reality is, the Dead didn’t always “play up” to big expectations. This may be a good example of that phenomenon….

They didn’t blow the roof off, but they didn’t bury it either……………..

It has been reported that the Dead themselves were not happy with their performance on this night. Perhaps because they had to constantly retune? However, it’s NOT a bad show, in fact many parts are very good, including the Pigpen material (especially Good Lovin’ to close the first set, a position I like a lot), the China/Rider, and the really fine Other One. Truth be told, I actually am very fond of it, because it is rough, hard edged, and rocking. Bare bones, hard rocking, definitely recommended.

A single disc of this material was released in June. It didn’t include the thumping, greasy Hard To Handle or the short sharp shots of greasy rave-up The Rub and Next Time You See Me, but sometimes we just hafta take what is given……

Rock on!!!!

Doc
I am not in this world to live up to other people's expectations, nor do I feel that the world must live up to mine

7/21/72

Kriyas-excellent show-I played that one yesterday, coincidentally. I tend to overlook those download shows, and summer 1972 seems a bit between twixt and twain-but that ones a good 'un.

Curiously, on my recording there is a complete drop out of sound for about 5 minutes, during the end of He's Gone. Just total silence, before it kicks in again with Truckin'. I have never been sure if the original recording was like that-or whether it was a fault with my downloading. My original download has long gone - luckily preserved on cds!

S&R * Closing Fillmore * 12/10/71 * 12/14/71

I don't like overdubs and have therefore never gotten into Skull & Roses or the original Europe '72. E72 is easy enough because there is a replacement version available of every song.. Are there any Skull & Roses tracks with no overdubs?
The Other One?

IMHO Pigpen's' Hammond chops were just fine in '71. I don't believe he took the the year off in 1969 while TC was in the band; I think he continued to polish his organ and play / compose music despite not playing it onstage. His improvement is obvious right at the outset of Truckin'. Check him out on 30 Trips, 3/18/71, Ladies & Gentlemen, etc. By Europe '72 he was all over the place, playing sparsely, densely, or not at all, depending on what the music called for. I think some of the best Dead stuff out there is that brief 1-2 punch of Pigpen's Hammond and Keith's piano.

So....not an overdub fan; but honestly it's the vocals that sound most out of place to me. E72 Sugar Magnolia and I Know You Rider....Snoopy "bleah!" But I'm going to give the new Skull & Roses it's due. My last word on the overdubs - I understand their necessity in those days, and most bands were doing it to an extent. I also understand how you guys who were around when these records first came out would be enamored with it regardless of overdubs (and that's great); it just sounds alien to me because I listened to thousands of hours of non-overdubbed Dead before ever encountering these old LPS.

Something went sideways on my order of the Extended S&R. I thought I bought a copy for both Uncle Gary and me when the pre-sale started but I don't see a confirmation email. But I do have a transaction on my credit card from around that time and I can't think of what else it would be. Anyway, I open the customer support ticket last night and then I went out to Barnes & Noble and bought the Extended S&R, because I can't wait any longer for the 7/2 bonus tracks. Just finished it and am left longing for the whole show. Grrrrrr. Will have to go with the bootleg version for the rest. And what an odd selection to choose. I guess they were trying to eliminate as many duplicates as they could. Thank you for making drums a separate track on Fillmore West. It sounds really good overall. Doc, good call on The Other One. I just turned it back on for a second listen.

Also Doc, I blasted 12/14/71 through the headphones, since you picked that show out of a crowd of released material from Nov / Dec '71. I had not listened to that one since around the time it came out, and we basically received four new shows from that period in a year's time with DaP 22 & 26. My first impressions on the relisten: audio solid, performance tight. Truckin' was peaking that Fall, and of course we had that 1-2 punch with Pigpen and Keith, so yeeaah. The whole show is truly awesome as you indicated. I'm a big fan of the one drummer performances of Me and My Uncle. This version shot the top of my favorites list, due largely in part to the melody Jerry is picking away at for the first 30 seconds. He's usually doing something similar, but this time he repeats it over and over in a mesmerizing fashion. Now I need to listen to 12/6 and 12/7 and see how things compare. So much homework....

Cousins, I checked out the 12/10/71 set list you recommended. The first thing that came to mind was that they played all of those songs on the Europe '72 Tour. I suppose that's the case for all of those Autumn '71 shows. It just struck me this time that they had been "rehearsing" for E72 quite some time before they made the trip.

Jerry Garcia RSD 2021 Disappear?

Am I missing something or did the Jerry Garcia Band Record Store Day 2021 release disappear? Anybody hear anything.

Keithfan, I hear you

I've always been a fan of Pigpen's keyboard playing -- after '66, that is... Although I must acknowledge that he could never have played the imaginative TC parts on Live/Dead. But '71 sledgehammer Dead? Pig nailed it.

That said, would anyone listen to Wharf Rat on the 50th Skull & Roses and tell me whether they hear piano and studio Jer vocals?

They seemed crystal clear to me last night after a few Carlsbergs and a sip or two of tequila. What could possibly go wrong?

re: HF, 50th S & R

HendrixFreak....I believe you are indeed correct on the Wharf Rat from the newly released Skull & Roses 50th; in fact, two nights ago I listened to the GD podcast for this album (it was like an hour and half long just to cover the last side of the LP, which included Wharf Rat). And, sure enough, this exact topic came up wherein the dude doing the podcast said the exact same thing - that he seems to also hear Jerry playing those piano bits to Wharf Rat (as Do I - well, I hear SOMEONE doing it) and he said he thought it was Jerry cause it sounded like Jerry! I had always heard those keys too, but never thought too hard about it but it does make sense. He also agreed on the vocal overdubs.
An expertly trained ear!!!

GFar, thanks for the shout out - still stuck at 3 offspring, we won't proceed further as this is PLENTY. But all are well, we've made it through the past 18 months relatively unscathed, albeit endured the hits along with everyone else. Glad to hear you've been hanging in there too!!

I'm not a Robot; just a Clever Android.

Sixtus

Closing of Fillmore West and Skull & Roses

Pig's organ work is decent when mixed within larger sonic context on a Truckin', but check the Sing Me Back Home on the bonus disc. Not very good. A little sour to my ears.

And to hendrixfreak's point, the overdub vocals and organ are why I never really enjoyed Skull & Roses. I like my live albums live. The studio vocals are jarring. I'll listen back for the piano. I got the release just for the bonus, which I am enjoying. I love at the end of The Other One Jerry hits a high note as if he's thinking of ending with Cryptical and thinks better of it (given how ragged the first part was), so no big finish to it. Agree with Doc on that Good Lovin'.

SnR n overdubs

When i got snr back in 82 i didnt know from overdubs. The Other One sounds pretty pure. Wharf Rat has organ and piano and Jerryz voice is double tracked.

elbow 49 - JGB Record Day

I have this mark down as happening on the 17th of July.

Hopefully neither of us missed it!

Black Throated Wind

should've been more popular, I can remember many trips along I-70 from Colorado to Ohio and this song is that entire trips....peace deadnet everyone happy safe weekend the next show in my play list digging DP Vol: 23 9/17/72 china_rider people shoudn't scoff july hockey even if non of our teams are playing in the band.... i am not a robot

JGB RSD release

Indeed this has disappeared from the Record Store Day online list. 😥

Farseer

Thanks for the advice about cassette digitization. Still poking around on this.

I checked the list of dvds in that box, The only one that might have the 12/31/71 footage would be the bonus disc with NYE from several years, the disc lists songs from each year. Was this the dvd with the footage you referred to? I'd love to see it, I don't remember a train, but my memory is foggy. When I get a chance I'll check with my friend who was there with me.

I have it on good authority (aka my imagination)...

that the box announcement will be August 1.

Joni box set

for those interested, new box just got here. It's Joni's first 4 albums, done up nice of course. All looks nice, big gatefold albums with words!! Joni art on covers, letter of authenticity,,, the works.

SOME announcement HAS to come by next Friday, right?

3 minutes 40 seconds of bliss

10 27 71
A fine lil ol' GD rock n roll show (its got a cumberland, btw)

A truncated 2nd set includes a 3:40 jam that is mighty fine and worthy of your listening.

Also...9 9 74 has some tasties

So, as with UFOs, it's not just me

Now, given that at least someone also hears Jer's studio vocals on Wharf Rat (S&R, 50th) and piano (you know that's Jer, cuz he's playing just like he played on his solo album just before the S&R dubbing sessions), I have to say:

Jer knew how to make records. One has to dial back fully 50 years ago and recall the nature of commercial "records" and the "recording industry" -- a foreign planet to us, today, I dare say.

I'm not saying everyone must enjoy S&R's overdubs, but Jer knew that the quartet needed some sweetening up and there you have him fixing vocals and adding Merle.

Sounds great, to my ears. I'm not a purist, as anyone who knows me well can easily attest. And here we are, in the land of the complete show, and they're STILL making stealth dubs/patches/etc.

In the scheme of things, I'll take what's comin' my way. Geez, I still have boxes of tapes!!! WTF!!!

Skull & Roses

Skull & Roses is a killer record, overdubs and all, a Complete knockout, I just wish they would have included a version of Easy Wind.

Past was another country

I may be wrong, but I get the impression that the concept of presenting live music in the 70s was completely different to how it is now. In the 70s, the emphasis was on releasing a great record, not on providing an accurate reproduction of a live concert. Several live concerts were also typically used as the basis for the record-rather than one specific show. I think maybe now, live recordings are more faithful to what was played at one specific show.

One of the exceptions to this rule-if rule it was - would have been "Live At Leeds" by The Who. That one was promoted as being free of over dubs, warts an' all, etc etc-which clearly implies that most "live" albums of the day were not like this.

Farewell Spanish Ladies

A disappointing end to a pretty decent quest for Lord Stanley’s trophy.

interesting tidbit?

I bought the Joni Mitchell archive 2 collection from the Joni site because she was the only one offering the limitied edition vinyl. Also bought the cd's. Realized last night that the cd's were available on amazon, 10 bucks less and no shipping. AND you know they will be here before mail interruptus! So I go to the Joni site to cancel the cd request. Now this appears to be the same site you get dead shit from (warner/rhino). First I can find no way to update or cancel, then I mistakenly ordered the lp's a second time and NOT the cd's. I used the usual "contact us" form. I explained what happened,,,, usual stock message about high volume may take a week before I hear. Got up this morning, order cancelled and credit given!!!

You have to wonder why the dead shit seems to have nothing but problems and the Joni shit was fixed asap? It really seemed like the same organization!

Jeopardy Dead

The past two weeks featured two clues featuring the Dead.

Last week's clue was in the folk lore category and asked for a song by the Dead that featured a train engineer. (Casey Jones.)

This week's clue was this Steven Tyler led band knew they were onto something because the Dead said they "looked crazy." (Aerosmith, duh. Though I'm skeptical of the quote.)

Then under the category of Fungi, they were looking for the mold from which LSD was originally derived. (Ergot.)

As a bonus, last night's final jeopardy was looking for a song written in 1930, that became a #1 hit in 1960, then was used as a campaign song in the 1976 Presidential race when covered by the Band. (Georgia on my Mind.) All the contestants missed this one, but not me!

I felt a little like Cliff Clavin from Cheers.

Jeopardy

I saw the last few minutes yesterday and heard the clue about ergot.

I could not think of Georgia on my Mind, though.

"I got ramblin
I got ramblin on my mind"

- RJ, different song

Vguy, if you are out there...

I am wearing my VGK shirt today.

Go Tampa!

Since most are here.....

... anyone out there big on "Char"? I've gotten interested and looking for people with collections looking to trade.

thanks

post office has my S&R collection,,,,, maybe today? Probably Tuesday. I think they have Monday off.

I even Googled "char" dennis....

....and I still couldn't find a viable definition. Small bodied trout collecting?
And yes AJS, quite the underwhelming Stanley Cup finals. Snorefest. Stupid Knights. Thanks for the repping Proudfoot.
Spinning GarciaLive 16 again today. Never gets old.

Next time your wife gets angry....

....Drape a towel over her shoulders (like a cape) and say, "now you're SUPER ANGRY! "

Maybe she'll laugh.

Maybe you'll die.

@Daverock Live LPs

That's true, 1970s live recordings were much more doctored, to provide a more commercially suitable record, but also because technology allowed.
Older live recordings were actually much more accurate, with no doctoring at all; most famous ones would be Benny Goodman live at Carnegie Hall in 1936, Duke Ellington also at Carnegie Hall recorded his shows from 1942 to 1946.
James Brown Live at the Apollo, Jerry Lee Lewis at the Star Club, all great recordings.
On the other hand, there was also a slew of fake live recordings, using studio cuts with overdubbed applause, plain ripoffs.

Super angry

I'll place $100 on dying...

Live and overdubs

13th Floor Elevators "live"

Obvious as the sun that the "audience" is faux

Live - mono/stereo

Cousins - yes, now you mention it, I can think of several live jazz/blues/rock n 'roll live recordings from 1930s-1960s that sound as though they are actual recordings of live shows-without additives.
Maybe the additives were introduced when stereo became more widely used from about 1965 onwards. In fact, many of the stereo recordings of pop/rock bands from the 60s now sound a bit fake compared to the original mono recordings. I've only discovered this in the last 15 years or so - but many classic 60s albums sound infinitely better in mono than they do on the stereo versions that I bought back in the 70s.

Vguy

Char is a Japanese guitarist,,,, maybe only plays fenders?

Char Performs "I'm Here For You" | Fender Artist Check-In | Fender - a google search will find this.

He is also in the video music for change the weight

live recordings

I think some of those early live recording,,,, benny and duke at Carnegie hall are all acoustic instruments recorded with open air mics. Not that I know anything about anything. I just assume early acoustic aren't screwed with much, hard to have the volume set high on your flute.

Thanks to the new rules here....

....dennis can't linq the source. But I got it.

Dennis

Char is new to me. And I appreciate the offer, but guess I will decline on the Partridge Family album. Not sure if you were kidding or not, so needed to respond.

@Daverock...Who's on First

I remember when "Live At Leeds" wa released it was noted how the basic looking stamped cover was meant to mimic a bootleg LP...The record company really screwed up the Legacy Deluxe edition that was said to be the whole show, which it was BUT...they changed the running order so the "Tommy" segment could run straight through on the second disc...the first disc was the beginning of the show then the post "Tommy" segments, encores included...sucked...I finally heard it correctly in the right running order when I purchased a Hi Res download...gotta say, one of my fave ever...Moon's drum intro on "Young Man Blues" still slays me to this day

Tell the folks back home......

this is the Promised Land callin, and the poor boy is on the line.

Live At Leeds

Nappy -yes, that deluxe edition does rather spoil Live At Leeds reputation as being a true to life, here it as it was played on the night recording. As you say, the original album is a killer. I sold mine, inserts and all, in the 80s, when I went through a misguided attempt to economise by only buying an album after I had sold one. I regret selling albums far more than I do buying them!

Wave That Flag

Happy Birthday to all who are celebrating. All the best on your 245th!

Live At Leeds

It's funny Daverock- when you began talking about most live 70s albums having a lot of overdubs to them, I was thinking....not good 'ol Live At Leeds; and then you mentioned it in the next sentence. Good man! The Who took over my life when I was 10 yrs old in 1982, so the only new material I remember being released were the Face Dances and It's Hard albums. Between those two and Empty Glass, I'm convinced there's one last great Who album in there. Oh well.

But I'm here to jump on the Live At Leeds Deluxe version. I was in college by then and had never heard Tommy from its glory days of 1969/1970. There were a couple of Woodstock tracks released, so I knew it must have been an A-list affair (Sparks, Pinball Wizard, and See Me Feel Me were sizzling hot on The Kids Are Alright Soundtrack album - ironically, See Me Feel Me has some vocal overdubs that I enjoy quite a bit compared to the orig). Overdubs also allowed for the release of Live at Hull from the next night after Leeds, as John Entwistle's bass was not recorded on the first five tracks; so they used the Leeds tapes. I can live with that for a whole new Who concert. I didn't care about track order; I was just happy to have ALL of this "new" live Who music. And to hear the Tommy Overture sounding eons better than its studio counterpart for the first time blew me away. They sounded absolutely incredible. Then soon after, they released Isle Of Wight 1970, which is another perfect multitrack show from their peak stage years.

But what kills me is the remixing of this Deluxe Live At Leeds by Townshend's brother-in-law Jon Astley. He removed what is arguably the best live scream Daltrey ever....screamed. They just completely he is something else. He also turned down Townsend's backing vocals on Substitute; it's the best part of the song and he mixed it so it's almost inaudible. They butchered most of their records actually. Who Are You and Quadrophenia got it the worst. Astley replaced entire guitar solos with alternate takes (Music Must Change); used an alternate horn arrangement on Had Enough. And he really screwed the pooch on I'm One when he removed the ethereal reverb from Townshend's vocal. This wasn't merely a stylistic revamping of things. The vocal reverb he lifted from helped establish the entire tone of the song. It would be like undoing the deliberate slow-down of Lennon's vocal on Strawberry Fields.

Still committing 12/14/71 to memory and enjoying the Fillmore West bonus disc. Man I wish they'd released the whole concert. I went back and listen to my bootleg and it's really not a bad performance.

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