Grateful Dead

Good call on Erkin Korey, enormously influential onthe Anatolian rock scene, though I confess to have never been personally convinced/satisfied by the records I have heard. Same feeling about all the Turkish psych I have heard, I guess you really had to be there....
I am very fond of current Turkish baglama/saz music, which I generally find much more authentically psychedelic!
I think I have recommended the excellent Kalan label here before. The label has the widest range of Turkish music, including local variants in minority languages, itself a very radical gesture in Turkey. Lots of Baglama, but also loads of fascinating female singers, always with really interesting backings. I dont know much about streaming, but plenty of this gets put up on Spotify.

Really envious that you got to see Kaleidoscope, and multiple times too, but Ive seen Telvin, the Turkish trio with Garcia lookalike Erkan Ogur in concert,( unfortunately criminally under recorded, only one double cd to my knowledge, and though its great, not a patch on them live)....and apart from the Dead in 72, I cant think Ive seen a better concert in my life, and Ive seen a lot!
What Im trying to say Nappy, is there is enough to make it worth your while to invest a few hours dabbling in new sounds if you were once upon a time moved by Sol Feldthouse.
Simon, you were turned on to the band much earlier than me, I had to wait till 74 till my friend Keith returned from the States with arm fulls of rare vinyl, a year or so before the floods of cut outs reached Europe.

in the recordings and who recorded what show. Says Kid and Rex and Bear, who recorded what? I am guessing Bear did the 71 shows and Kid did the 72 shows and Rex the 73 shows? I have sbd copies of these shows except the 71 shows, and if Bear recorded those shows, I'm a bit more interested in this box. What I have sounds pretty damn good.
I know some of you might say, "what does it matter?" It doesn't but I just want to know who did what and more importantly, are their dropouts and patches like the PNC box? Will Jerry be up in the mix or will he be buried like the aforementioned box. I felt a bit burned on the PNC box due to these instances and what I called "no Jerry" in the mix.
I want the greatest, best fullest sounding recording I can get and if this is done right, it will be a mighty box. If there are patches and dropouts and places where it's mono, please let us know, 200 bucks just doesn't grow on trees you know.
I am like most of you, I want this music and I love the Grateful Dead, I just don't like surprises, and I don't like Jerry not present in the mix. I was so disappointed that the PNC box had these abnormalities and I think I will wait to pull the trigger on this one until I hear it or until others have heard it and I get a true review.
Now, what's DaP 39? Some 91 Bruce would be great.

Caring about the recoding engineer is a valid question as each person has a fairly personal sound to their recordings and most listeners prefer one individual to another. Dropouts and patches seem to generally fall under Dicks original words of "encouragement" from his first pick...
"The recording herein has been lovingly remastered directly from the original two-track master tape and is therefore not immune to the various glitches, splices, reel changes and other aural gremlins contained on said original. Dick's Picks differs from our From The Vault series in that we simply did not have access to complete shows (nor the modern mixing capabilities afforded by multitrack tapes). But we think the historical value and musical quality of these tapes more than compensates for any technical anomalies... In other words, what you hear is what you get. And what you get ain't bad!" Buy the ticket take the ride but they aren't gonna tell us about the broken vampire coffin after the Tomb of the Mummy every time we get on.

Broken vampire coffin? Tomb of the mummy? Sorry, I don't get it. What does that mean anyway? So to you it just doesn't matter? I have great respect for your words and posts on this site, but I would like to know if this is another one of those, "even though it's uneven, has drop outs and is in mono in some parts, you need this" boxes?
You go ahead, I will wait and see, or in this case, hear. I guess the days of me blinding buying everything Dead are over.

I'd guess Rex recorded 1971 as he is credited with DaP 22 12/6-7/71and 26 11/17/71 and 12/14/71, Bear with 1972 as he recorded DaP 11 11/17/72, 25 8/25/72, and Hofheinz 11/18/72, and Kidd for 1973 as he did DaP 38 9/7-8/73. Of course, Rex also recorded DaP 21 4/2/73 and Kidd recorded DaP 16 3/28/73, and Dave mentioned getting the missing reel of one of the '71 shows from the Owsley Foundation, so who knows what that means. The returned Bettys have included Rex tapes and at least one Bear tape (DaP 25).

The issues at the beginning of the 1974 shows in the PacNW box are mainly issues limited to the Wall of Sound and the first song(s) serving almost as a live soundcheck as they dial things in for themselves. Dropouts and patches are never mentioned before release date, they're usually discussed as found by listening through.

I don’t have a dog in this fight. And I truly don’t feel that by printing the words from the back of a a Dave’s Pick box that anyone’s view was being attacked or vilified. I have friends(who I love dearly) who cannot tolerate less than ideal recordings, and I get and respect that. I guess as a kid in the early ‘70’s days of quite awful vinyl bootlegs, I was taught to expect the worst. Some recordings are of a historical nature to some, but not all of us. Personally, the music is more important to me than the recording quality, but that’s just me. I don’t expect or need anyone to agree with me. Who cares anyway?? I like what I like, and you can do the same. I have some “historical recordings” that I paid good money for, that I cannot tolerate, and regret buying. That’s never happened to me on any Dead recording, but I have VERY low standards. Let’s not get hung up on this very personal choice. Anomalies are one thing, completely shi++y recordings are another. One mans trash is another mans treasure.
Anyway……Music is the Best!!

PNW had a few issues, however July 78, June 76, Fillmore 69, the 2 Spring 90, May 77, GSTL had no issues that I can remember; in general these releases have been nothing short of stellar

50 years ago.

I for one am grateful for their existence _at all_.

I figure that the GD organization is going to make the recordings sound as good as possible. The source recordings are what they have to work with. "Ladies and gentlemen, Sir Jeffrey Norman!!!"

Remember tape hiss? Speedy dubs? Tape-munching cassette players?

I'll accept the occasional dropout over those things any day.

Anybody else get a shipping notice today for DaP39? Got one at 5:25 AM, but still don’t know what show it is? Anybody know?

As Im enjoying the U.S.A. vollyball team whip France, I thought I would give the Dead box sets, Olympic medals. Now I'm only judging the box sets that I own. Good medal winners: Fillmore West, Europe 72, Winterland 73, 1976 box set, TTATS, Silver medal winners: P.N.W., July1978, G.S.TL. I think this new box set is going to be a Gold medal winner.

If the audio dropouts on 74 shows happened at the show, then you should expect them to be on the recording. If they are not on the SBD recording that is released, but are on the SBD and AUD recordings that are in circulation, then that would be a studio overdub, or a patch from another show.

This STL release has been Plangentized and Normanized, so it’s definitely going to sound better than the copies that are in circulation.

I think that PNW is an awesome Box, as well as July 78.
It’s not the sound quality why they didn’t sell out fast, some people just don’t like those years and/or aren’t going to shell out the money for a multi show Box.

Over on the DiP 38 thread three have gotten their shipping notice for 39. Mbarilla says 9-6-80? Or was he posting what he hopes it will be? Unclear from text. Early Brent is OK by me. Cheers!

I got one. I like the surprise of not knowing what this show is yet.

This St Louis box looks nice. Hope it's still available when I have extra cash.

I thought I was making a joke by comparing released tapes to a haunted house amusement park ride. You buy a ticket and get in the cart. Cart goes through the ride. Carnie at the front ain't gonna tell you about a broken part of the ride. You get on knowing its a carnival ride and there might be some "anomalies" with the attraction. The idea is you know what you're getting in for and its still a fun ride. Shit I even go around twice most times. I assumed since most were "older" and with Jerry's self professed love of monster movies, I thought it would go over better, but I guess not. Figurative language gentlemen! As you were. Blindly buying dead?! Never. My expectations are low with most things in life therefore I'm RARELY disappointed and often very pleased.

We are all winners when it comes to owning a GD Box set, agreed that Europe '72 and Boxzilla are Gold Medal Standard. Europe '72 vinyl was the bus that brought me here.

My brain is not working, what box is this?

For my money:

Gold: 30 Trips, Europe '72, Fillmore '69, GSTL, Winterland '73.

Silver: June 76, Spring 90 TOO, July '78, May 77, Winterland '77, Giants.

Bronze: PNE, All The Years Combine (video), Spring '90.

No medal: Golden Road, Beyond Description, Warlocks, RFK.

Speaking of dropouts, I was inspired by Real Gone's re-release of RT Vol 2#2 to have a listen to 2-14-68, and Pigs vocals dropping out was a bummer.

That is everyone, right? Or should I be reordering?

Jason Thirty Trips Around The Sun

My favourite box is Europe 72, hands down. I missed Fillmore West 1969, as I may have mentioned before - that is the other other undisputed champion in the box set category.

Different perspectives on what makes a good box, and clearly no right or wrong. Personally, I prefer the 1968-1974 period, so I am happier with releases from those years, even if they aren't always premium sound quality. I like the PNW box - and the 1974 shows especially. In fact, I like the main offender sound wise-5/19/74, so much that I bought it on vinyl, too. The 1976 box may have better sound quality, but as it isn't a favourite year, I didn't get that one.

Interesting with boxes that some shows take longer to sink in with me than if they had been released individually. A obvious point perhaps. This year, in the 78 box, the middle shows sounded much much better than I remembered them. I have always considered the opening show and the2 Red Rocks ones to be the main ones-but those middle ones aren't too shabby either. And 5/7/77 often slips under the radar in its box. Yet its clearly one of the best of the year.

Does it seem to anyone else the songs on the final show disc are out of order? I am not familiar with the shows, but no way they end on WRS, right?

The end has to be the GDTRFB>Johnny B Goode, Saturday Night on disc 19? Right?

Not a big fan of taking things out of order. Especially on a box set. I mean, when you are trying to make it fit on a 3 disc release, OK. But 20?

My brain was off. Thinking too numerically? Yeesh. Boo on me!

In the product description it states that the set includes an eighty four page hardcover book , so I’m guessing that this set will be on the larger side. For me personally, I actually buy these for the music and will take whatever size box they decide on.

I thought the broken vampire casket analogy was funny. I have noticed that the drops, skips and patches have dwindled over time. Just like a broken vampire coffin, shit happens.

OMG I can't wait this looks awesome!

Something like "I was supposed to arrive in a casket, but the damn thing broke."

"Sorry folks, the vampire coffin is in the shop" (John Candy voice in Vacation)

---- I have the original vinyl!!!

I think the new box will be just like the Spring 90 boxes. Easy to make (kinda), easier than a magic salmon box, But the fit on shelves well. Just took down one of the 90 boxes to look, I never do. Really was nicely packaged for a "just a box".

Do you think the dead were the driving force for these "creative boxes"? Was E72 the first of it's kind? If not what others names produced great boxes? Sinatra? The Pelvis? Duke?

Still no word on 39,,, anxious over getting the glass!

Awarding two gold medals for ties has happened a few times in the Olympics, but not very often. I believe the last time was in 2002 in figure skating, which is not really a sport anyway. More of an exhibition. Judges vote on who they like the most, not on something measurable like who is the fastest or scores the most points. Kinda like these box sets.

That being said, FW69 and E72 get the dual gold. A distant third with the bronze is PNW.

In fairness, 76, Giants stadium, RFK and both 90s boxes were eliminated during the Olympic trials (ie: not purchased).

The “Eddie the Eagle” award goes to the first May 77 box based on effort, determination and for exceeding all expectations.

The “Lindsey Jacobellis” award goes to the Warlocks for coming in with high expectations, but ultimately crashing and burning.

I suspect this new box will displace PNW.

And yes, the setlist does appear to be out of order. And I am O.K. with it. Rather that than displacing a big jam.

The second set jam basically takes all the third disc but it looks like there was enough room left over on disc two to put the final couple of songs there. They put a lot of time and money into these box sets and I can't imagine that there's a huge profit margin. Adding an additional disc would've cost more for them and the last 2 to 3 songs can be fit at the end of disc two so that's fine.

....so I have no issues with the out of order Kiel tracks.

..but 13,000 x $200 is 2,600,000, so I think their doing alright, which is okay, if the quality and service are there...
“nothing comes for free”

😂 “that’s not really a sport”

....I often ponder what portion of the sales go to the remaining band members. 30%? IDK.

I bet they are very happy so much got recorded over the years.

Hwy 61 rev
Bringing it all

So good

You've recommended the 5/19/74 vinyl quite a bit, and I finally took your advice, opened it this evening and put on beginning with China> Rider, and the show is hitting me much more now with vinyl warmth, even at a lower volume due to neighbors, than it had previously. Many thanks for another reminder of something that had been sitting upon a shelf looking pretty, but sounding silent. This reinforces my decision to have ordered Light Into Ashes, because that sequence on Plangentized Normanized vinyl ought to be thrilling to listen to! I loved the sound of 5/3/72, it sounded richer than the last listen I gave it in the car, albeit in mp3.

The China has a patch I hadn't recalled, but the patches aren't bad, heard another in Weather Report Suite. But the show sounds fantastic, and I'd recommend searching for this vinyl on walmart, I saw it pop up at a low price recently, definitely worth having, especially if you didn't get the PacNW box, which I'm surprised to see several people say they passed on. Surprised because of 6/22/73 and 5/19/74 alone being in it, not to mention the 5/21/74 known for its epic Playing in the Band (also released as a Record Store Day vinyl, and which I foolishly passed on at 20 bucks not once, but twice), and to me I would just think of 6/24, 26/73, and 5/17/74 as bonuses. But then '73-74 is some of my favorite Dead. I wouldn't mind 6/22 or 6/24 being released on vinyl someday, the Bird Song, Here Comes Sunshine, and He's Gone> Truckin'> Other One> Wharf Rat of 6/22 and 6/24's Dark Star> Eyes> China Doll deserve vinyl treatment, though 6/22 would be 7 or 8 LPs depending on how they track it.

I lack the Europe '72 box and Winterland '77 and the Spring '90 boxes (though I had the The Other One prior to a wonderful swap for FW '69) and give Gold to 30 Trips and Europe '72, Silver to GSTL and PacNW '73-74, Bronze to Spring '90 TOO and Giants Stadium. Reason for my subjective rankings is the breadth musically and the supplemental material which is of lesser value to some than to me. I like the denser reading material, and bumped Giants Stadium because I like that book a lot. They also mixed the hell out of that box, it sounds phenomenal! I didn't get Spring '90 for a variety of reasons, but I lament not having it for the book that came in the box, but not a fan of the mixing and the decision not to use the 24 track mix, which they rectified for TOO. And added color prints, and other ephemera. Winterlands '73 and '74 and FW '69 I left out because it's 3-4 shows, and booklets. July '78, June '76, and May '77 are also all booklets and nothing else. Since it's a once a year splurge, I feel like the bells and whistles are part of the attraction, and not a detraction. I can see the other side, though, and for that, we do have the Dave's Picks series, which should be having an announcement in the next few days I would hope. No shipping notice for me as yet.

I thank you for the 5/21/74 - 46 min. PITB reminder. It has been a while since that behemoth song was played.

Gold: TTATS/E72
Silver: May 77/May 77 GSTL
Bronze: July 78/June 76

I know, pretty crowded up there :-)

except 76, 77, 78, 69, 89 and first 90 box, Warlocks box and RFK, . The rest are all gold. E72 is my favorite, followed by, TOO, I know, but the sound quality on that release makes it a top 5 for sure, even though the song selection is limited. TTATS is a close third, what a great box that one was. I will probably order this down the road some, but after PNW, I will wait to hear it. The best box in my opinion is E72. Hands down, best price, most complete tour and just some fantastic jamming.
Hey Dire wolf, I was a sailor, so I get a bit salty sometimes, sorry but I didn't mean any disrespect.

But the carve outs & digital releases as well.

Got me to play 5-17-74 last night.
And I enjoyed it very much. The dropouts accounted for less than 1% of the total show.
The Playing in the Band was mighty fine, and it only clocks in around 25 minutes.

That prompted me to listen to the monster from 5-21, which was spectacular. I love the spacey, jammy goodness of ‘74.
I’m glad I grabbed that RSD vinyl release. Also have 5-19 on vinyl.

I probably should order Light To Ashes.

It is so difficult to grade anything Grateful Dead as best or least best, because a measurement of quality was never their reason for being. This, instead, was a rare performance vehicle that laid all their cards down on creating a visceral experience, taking much of their cue from their audience in the moment; it could almost be said that if there was a poor quality show, it was as much due to the audience as it was the band.

This box set provides one of those interesting perspectives where we can watch the band evolve over a set time, and we can examine select numbers and styles to see how this performance changes, is molded, and later dismantled, for there was never equivocation with the Dead - they were always about the experience.

Favorite passages, songs, jams? Of course. But by choosing one over the other, we are merely announcing how dramatically this piece of music shakes our bones to the core; every performance, even of the same song, is delivered differently, from a different angle, for a 360 degree Dead experience.

You can be a band that performs your “Hotel California” note perfect, night after night on your 85 date tour, with your guitarist hitting this note here, and have your audience go Wow, or you can play the Dead, who never played the same show twice, each performance a degree or degrees different than the one before. Songs were introduced, dropped, brought back, repackaged, never played the same way twice (Ok, maybe the tedious Me And My Uncle…).

These box sets are the best, and I have no doubt this St Louis set will have some real Ooohs and Ahhhs, because that is what the Dead did best.

Well said, That Mike.

They probably most likely I think from the sound person tweaking this and that.

That Mike - your post, which I thought was a good 'un, made me think that it would be great if they released a box set featuring shows from different eras, but all containing a Dark Star ( or Playing in the Band, The Other One) to show how it evolved over time. It couldn't be definitive-it changed during the course of a run - but it would be a neat concept.

Alvarhanso - the fact that I keep mentioning the vinyl 5/19/74 clearly indicates I need more Dead vinyl - Light to Ashes looks a likely contender. Its only the duty and the distance from The States to the UK - hopefully it wouldn't get damaged in transit-that is putting me off.

I’m sure after expenses and being split up, it’s probably not a huge payoff per person, but this is only ONE release. Add on the different LP configurations and other related merch of just this release. Now multiply that by ALL the boxes and releases other than Dave’s....yeah, I bet their real glad someone recorded all the shows....

Then, add Daves into the mix at 25,000 x $100 (or more for ala carte) = at least $2,500,000 pretty much guaranteed annually. And I don’t think the costs for these are anywhere near other projects.
Plus, I think they got a big payoff for the contracts?
So yeah, perhaps one persons cut of one release might not be huge, but when you start adding it all up over the last twenty years or so....cha-Ching!

Surely they’re just following Leary’s advice. Turn on, tune in, drop out.

I did that once!
Colin 😉

As the disclaimers used to say, these ARE NOT “professional” recordings. Today, their artifacts from a long time ago.
Snap shots using legacy limited technology to attempt to catch a glimpse...
Their intent was for reference, as a learning/measuring tool, not for commercial release!
So anything that was recorded other than on multitrack, is going to have anomalies on the actual tape that cannot be removed etc.
I’ve never been at, or heard a dead show, except perhaps remixed multi tracks, that you couldn’t hear the often dramatic changes of both the musicians messing with their sound on stage and even more so, on going changes in the house mix. Most of it was a very subtle process that would often take most of the first set before things were fully dialed in, up and running.
I’m sure many folks can’t or wouldn’t notice much of this, but to a trained ear it’s pretty obvious.
Thus, many of us understand this and so just except it as part of the process. The price for getting it just exactly perfect lol.
What I think is funny, is how folks don’t seem to notice the constant outta tune vocals and guitars that often were part of early seventies shows, but an occasional mix anomaly will drive en nuts lol.
Personally, the only release that I’ve had a real audio problem with was this last DaP 38. But I won’t rehash that again.
The rest I love for their individuality, worts and all! But hey, that’s just me. Some are definitely better than others...
I agree that that the PNW has some more prominent examples than usual, but it is what is is....so I ask, would it have been better to cut those songs, or even to have not released those shows at all?
I think usually, whenever possible, it’s not good removing authenticity from a historical document , but hey beauty is in the eye of the beholder?
Caveat emptor indeed.

....it's time to release an Alaska mini-box. $99.95. I want one. Call it Baked Alaska and put a Kodiak Bear somewhere on it. If the powers that be read these forums, and I'm sure they do, you're welcome. Just put Vguy72 on the credits.
An Alaska box WILL happen. It's just a matter of time. Right Dave?

The only problem I have with the PNW shows are the vocals that aren't dropped out. To wit - Donna's full throttle screaming coming out of the epic Playing on 5/21/74. With all the vocal drop outs, its ironic that that interjection was recorded and preserved with such ear shattering clarity. Would it have been so wrong to excise that bit before releasing it ? Maybe.
Bit of a calamity on "Bertha" on the show I listened to this morning-Dave's 24, Berkeley 8/25/72. But its no big deal in the overall scheme of the show.

Nitecat/DaveRock - Thanks. I agree, tracking how a song morphs over months and years is fascinating, and in the case of the Dead, being such fluid and skilled musicians, a song can change dramatically in the matter of a tour.

Oro - You definitely have a really great handle on sound. Do you work professionally in the sound biz?

First night. The opening Iko was barely audible, but the sound guys eventually got it dialed in. At the time I was shocked, but eventually learned that it comes with the territory. No crime in pointing out when the mix is sub-par on these releases.