• 1,587 replies
    Srinivasan.Mut…
    Joined:

    What's Inside:
    7 Previously Unreleased Complete Shows On 20 Discs
    Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/09/71
    Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/10/71
    Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/17/72
    Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/18/72
    Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/19/72
    Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/29/73
    Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/30/73
    Sourced from tapes recorded by Rex Jackson, Owsley "Bear" Stanley, and Kidd Candelario
    Mastered in HDCD by Jeffrey Norman
    Restoration and Speed Correction by Plangent Processes
     
    Individually Numbered, Limited Edition of 13,000

    Steamboats and BBQ, ice cream cones and Mardi Gras - are you ready to laissez les bons temps rouler with the "gateway" to the Grateful Dead? Meet us, won't you, in St. Louis for seven complete and previously unreleased Dead concerts that capture the heart of the band's affinity for the River City.
     
    LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73 is a 20CD set featuring five shows from the Fox Theatre - December 9 and 10, 1971; October 17-19, 1972; and two from the Kiel Auditorium - October 29 and 30, 1973. 
     
    The seven shows in the collection span slightly less than two years, but they represent some of the best shows the Grateful Dead played during some of its peak tours. The music tells the story of a band evolving, changing from one sound to another seamlessly, precipitated – in large part – by significant personnel changes in the Dead’s lineup.
     
    The two 1971 shows feature the original Grateful Dead lineup plus newcomer Keith Godchaux on piano. This version of the band would hold together for the next six months as the Dead embarked upon its Europe ’72 tour. By the time the Dead returned to the Fox Theatre less than a year later, they were without Pigpen, who’d played his final show with the Dead at the Hollywood Bowl on June 17, 1972. A year after the exceptional Fox 1972 shows, the Dead came back to St. Louis, but played the much larger Kiel Auditorium, touring behind the release of WAKE OF THE FLOOD, which came out just two weeks before.
     
    All told, the band played 60 different songs during these shows highlighted by blazing romps through “Beat It On Down The Line” and “One More Saturday Night” and wistful takes on “Row Jimmy” and “Brokedown Palace” (whose lyrics give the collection its name). Meanwhile, the copious jamming ebbed and flowed like the mighty Mississippi River on multiple voyages through “The Other One” and “Dark Star.” Naturally, the band paid tribute to one of its favorite rock and rollers and one of St. Louis’ biggest stars by playing Chuck Berry songs at every show in the collection, including Pigpen galloping through “Run Rudolph Run.”  
     
    Each show has been restored and speed corrected using Plangent Processes with mastering by Jeffrey Norman. The collection comes in a slipcase with artwork by Liane Plant and features an 84-page hardbound book as well as other Dead surprises. To set the stage for the music, the liner notes provide several essays about the shows, including one by Sam Cutler, the band’s tour manager during that era, and another by Grateful Dead scholar Nicholas G. Meriwether, among others. 
     
    Due October 1st, LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73, is limited to 13,000 individually numbered copies and available exclusively from Dead.net.

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  • daverock
    Joined:
    Daves 10

    Keithfan - that's a good idea. I too brought that one down this morning, and just had time to play the Drak Star from 12/11/69 before going out for my booster jab. I might follow suit, and start again from cd1 in the order you suggest. There do look to be an awful lot of songs played at 12/12!

  • Numb
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    Shout out to dr. rhino, dead…

    Shout out to dr. rhino, dead.net and whoever had their hand in expeditiously replacing the 6 discs from my St. Louis box that had a lot of scratches on them! Keep up the great customer service, and keep bringing it, DL and team!

  • billy the kiddd
    Joined:
    12/4/65, An important date in Grateful Dead history

    56 years ago today the Dead played their first public gig as the Grateful Dead, at the San Jose Acid Test. For a very cool story about a 16 year old who went to the party with his brother, type in "jerry's brokedown palaces big nigs house". The 16 year old kid meets Pig Pen and Garcia that might and gets quite a different reception from both of them. His story is toward the end of the article and an absolute must read. The Rolling Stones were playing the same night at the San Jose Civic Auditorium, and Keith Richards and Brian Jones showed up at the Acid Test when the Stones gig was done.

  • KeithFan2112
    Joined:
    1969

    You've inspired me Daverock, to revisit the latter half of 1969. Up to my usual tricks, I've taken some editorial initiative to combine the Thelma 12/12/69 show with the bonus disc from the previous night, as well as drop Lovelight Feedback and drums. I popped Bonus Disc tracks Dark Star => St. Steven => The Eleven in the space between discs 2 & 3. It works nicely..
    Then disc 3 plays like normal with that miraculous UJB; and then I placed the remaining Bonus Disc tracks Cumberland Blues => The Other One and Cosmic Charlie to just before the closing And We Bid You Goodnight. Without drums and Feedback in that ending sequence, stuff just flows better. Great Caution btw. What a show, and barely longer than the original. I hadn't listened to this one in a good 6 months, and this re-ordering of tracks really optimized the lozenges I recovered (long story).

    Hey Stoltzie, regarding Pigpen's action:
    she got her leg up against the wall.....nuck nuck nuck

  • daverock
    Joined:
    Long strange trip and all that

    Keithfan-yes, there have been some good recordings from late 1969 - throughout the year, in fact, taking into account releases outside of Dave's Picks. And they are all fascinating and worth hearing ( again and again) in my humble estimation.

    Part of the attraction for me with these shows, is that the band actually evolved on stage for all to hear not closeted away in rehearsal - so we can all recognise from whence they came, where they were, and sense where they were going. Much more interesting than if they had simply stopped touring for 6 months - say from May to December 69, and reappeared as a new model.The develpoment happened in public, over a period of time, for all to hear. To me, this meant that some shows featured somewhat tentaive playing as they evolved-but that's not a problem. It's a quality, in fact.

    I've pigeon holed 1969-but this on stage development obviously started in 1966 and continued spiralling on into the 1970s.

  • Forensicdoceleven
    Joined:
    The busy have no time for tears…..

    50 years ago today…..

    December 4, 1971
    Felt Forum, New York City, New York

    Set 1: Truckin'-Sugaree-Mr. Charlie-Beat It On Down The Line-Tennessee Jed-Jack Straw-Run Rudolph Run-You Win Again-Me And Bobby McGee-Comes A Time-El Paso-Smokestack Lightning-Cumberland Blues-One More Saturday Night

    Set 2: Ramble On Rose-Me & My Uncle>The Other One>Mexicali Blues>The Other One>Wharf Rat-Casey Jones

    Encore: Johnny B Goode

    Deadicated to evilyn2003, Mr.Dc, dissident1980, Maine Dave, Across the Rio, cosmicdavid, Lost Dantian Tapes, Dantian's Wei Lu, Heart of Dantian, Sydney Prentice, and Grayteful, because how cruelly sweet are the echoes that start, when memory plays an old tune on the heart…….

    The food that feeds us all, the Grateful Dead………

    We shouldn’t let the intense cosmic quality of December 5 overwhelm the other shows from this fine run. Here is a solid, well played show that you almost never hear about. The first set is long, well played, and has some nice, slightly oddball tunes like Run Rudolph Run, You Win Again, Comes A Time, and Smokestack Lightning. Equipment difficulties appear to be at a minimum. Admittedly, the second set is short, but does have the quirky, heavily Weirish jam sequence. Maybe not a top tier show, but certainly worth a listen…………

    Rock on!!

    Doc
    To have no time for philosophy is to be a true philosopher…..

  • KeithFan2112
    Joined:
    Oops Wrong Shows

    That's pretty funny Doc, considering I've been playing the daylights out of 12/9 and 12/10 the past couple of days (including the past 2 hours). Heh. I suspect you're right about the shortened 12/9 show. Probably swung into town late and didn't get to the gig from the diner fast enough.

    Daverock, agree on those half hour Lovelights - most of them throw me off the scent for a bit, but I just FF >> to the last 5 minutes or so and keep on Truckin'. I imagine the live experience was much more exciting - Pigpen up there engaging the crowd in those tiny venues (if Reverend Grease helped close the deal for even one pocket-ball player, I'd say his work was complete :D

    I do love the 2nd half of '69, probably as much as 1st half, but for different reasons. 1st half I'm into for same reasons you mentioned. 2nd half '69 brought us the first UJB, Feeling Groovey, and Tighten Up jams. I hear what you're saying on them getting their legs on some of the new tunes (1st Cumberland Blues rough, but didn't bring down DP 16 for me). There aren't a whole of official releases, but what we have is pretty good stuff (sans the half hour Lovelights). Thelma has some great stuff with Bonus Disc (including a singularly unique UJB with an incredible gooey intro). Some great soundboards: 8/30, 10/25 partial (fantastic Dark Star => St. Stephen => The Eleven), 11/2, and the whole last week of December (Dallas 12/26 + Boston Tea Party shows). New Speedway Boogie. Mason's Children. Easy Wind.

    And in the words of one drunken man who has crashed more cars than most of us have owned in a lifetime: next phase, new wave, dance craze, anyways -
    It's still rock and roll to me....

  • proudfoot
    Joined:
    Lovelight

    never a major fan

    although I will tolerate them when in the right mood

    I have always said, I don't need to know about Pigpen's action.

  • daverock
    Joined:
    R&R Hall of Fame?

    I'm not sure I like the sound of that very much! No...in England rock n' roll is now a distinct culture - very different from rock music. Near where I live, they have rock n' roll weekends - or they did before Covid, and it was a sight for sore eyes. Incredible cars would turn up, and the patrons modelled themsleves in hybrid 1950s style. They looked great, some of them.
    I've only attended as an outpatient - I don't dress up to suit the band I'm going to see. But I did feel a bit out of place. There was a sign on one wall saying "hippies not allowed"!
    I like listening to The Dead and rock n' roll-but they both seem very different- no, they are very different.

  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    Mark the calender

    I actually agree with everything DR said except about the R&R part lol
    with much of what is now in the R&R hall of fame, I don’t think there’s any debate about the Dead being a R&R band, unique yes.

    DOC: we’re in the final stretch. Have hit all the Capital run and everything since Winterland 3/24/71, (plus the boxilla show!) Keep ‘em coming and thanks for all the informative/entertaining posts!
    Some real Bobbie Dazzlers coming up! Looking forward to 12/15 and New Years as I’ve never heard those
    Guess you have to add 1/2/72 as another I’ve not heard but folks seem to go on about?

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Member for

6 years 1 month

What's Inside:
7 Previously Unreleased Complete Shows On 20 Discs
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/09/71
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/10/71
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/17/72
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/18/72
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/19/72
Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/29/73
Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/30/73
Sourced from tapes recorded by Rex Jackson, Owsley "Bear" Stanley, and Kidd Candelario
Mastered in HDCD by Jeffrey Norman
Restoration and Speed Correction by Plangent Processes
 
Individually Numbered, Limited Edition of 13,000

Steamboats and BBQ, ice cream cones and Mardi Gras - are you ready to laissez les bons temps rouler with the "gateway" to the Grateful Dead? Meet us, won't you, in St. Louis for seven complete and previously unreleased Dead concerts that capture the heart of the band's affinity for the River City.
 
LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73 is a 20CD set featuring five shows from the Fox Theatre - December 9 and 10, 1971; October 17-19, 1972; and two from the Kiel Auditorium - October 29 and 30, 1973. 
 
The seven shows in the collection span slightly less than two years, but they represent some of the best shows the Grateful Dead played during some of its peak tours. The music tells the story of a band evolving, changing from one sound to another seamlessly, precipitated – in large part – by significant personnel changes in the Dead’s lineup.
 
The two 1971 shows feature the original Grateful Dead lineup plus newcomer Keith Godchaux on piano. This version of the band would hold together for the next six months as the Dead embarked upon its Europe ’72 tour. By the time the Dead returned to the Fox Theatre less than a year later, they were without Pigpen, who’d played his final show with the Dead at the Hollywood Bowl on June 17, 1972. A year after the exceptional Fox 1972 shows, the Dead came back to St. Louis, but played the much larger Kiel Auditorium, touring behind the release of WAKE OF THE FLOOD, which came out just two weeks before.
 
All told, the band played 60 different songs during these shows highlighted by blazing romps through “Beat It On Down The Line” and “One More Saturday Night” and wistful takes on “Row Jimmy” and “Brokedown Palace” (whose lyrics give the collection its name). Meanwhile, the copious jamming ebbed and flowed like the mighty Mississippi River on multiple voyages through “The Other One” and “Dark Star.” Naturally, the band paid tribute to one of its favorite rock and rollers and one of St. Louis’ biggest stars by playing Chuck Berry songs at every show in the collection, including Pigpen galloping through “Run Rudolph Run.”  
 
Each show has been restored and speed corrected using Plangent Processes with mastering by Jeffrey Norman. The collection comes in a slipcase with artwork by Liane Plant and features an 84-page hardbound book as well as other Dead surprises. To set the stage for the music, the liner notes provide several essays about the shows, including one by Sam Cutler, the band’s tour manager during that era, and another by Grateful Dead scholar Nicholas G. Meriwether, among others. 
 
Due October 1st, LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73, is limited to 13,000 individually numbered copies and available exclusively from Dead.net.

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6 years 5 months
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So I'm curious, those of you who received the box, anyone live on the east coast? Just wondering how far they've made it. I also have a Sunday delivery scheduled. Post office only delivers Amazon on Sunday. Not to mention they are closed Monday. Which means only Amazon then as well. They may deliver priority on Monday but I doubt this box is priority.

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4 years 3 months
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8336 arrived in Denver today.👍

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17 years 1 month

In reply to by jp1119

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....shipping update never changed to "out for delivery". Stayed in "on its way" mode. Delivered by UPS, no USPS. I'm still at work. Will report back later. The digital download comment page is still a shitshow.
Edit. I'm west coast.

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12 years 10 months
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This has got to be the worst box set packaging yet. Unnecessarily large, just for the sake of making it look impressive from the outside, I guess. It's not HUGE, but way bigger than it needs to be. There is so much wasted/unused space that you could fit 5 or 6 more digipacks inside. If you haven't received yours yet, you will see what I mean. Very poor design. I'm disappointed. In my opinion, the ideal package/box design is doing it like the July 1978 box or the first May 1977 box. Keep it minimal! I know I'm not the only one who feels this way as I've read other similar comments about box size/style preferences. No comment on the shows themselves. As long as all the discs play without issues I know what to expect - lots of hours of primo GD listening enjoyment.

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11 years 2 months
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Anyone seen Dave? He must be down by the water doing a lot of nature watching and videoing! Looking forward to all the details of St. Louis and Dave’s Picks!

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8 years 9 months

In reply to by WharfratWhitey

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A rabid pack of sea otters may have gotten him while he was recording the DaP40 announcement.

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17 years 1 month

In reply to by proudfoot

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....and, while I agree somewhat on smaller boxes, this one is indeed beautiful and not too big.
Somewhat spoiler. The banter before the 12.9.71 Truckin' is hilarious and somewhat foreshadowing. You'll know what I'm talking about when you hear it. Sounds grate!! Time to change my avatar and turn it to 11!

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11 years 6 months

In reply to by Vguy72

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#05451 it is...and I do like the box...The digi-paks themselves though, that's another matter....

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14 years 10 months
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5 hours ago my box set was in Kentucky. UPS now say it will be delivered, to me in the UK, on Monday 10th. Still seems unlikely given all the custom clearance that will be needed. I may never leave the house again!

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17 years 1 month
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Mine also arrived in Kentucky early this morning and has an estimated delivery time of Monday morning. I haven't received any request for payment yet so I will be surprised if I see it on Monday. At least it is heading in my direction so I have no reason to complain.

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9 years 11 months

In reply to by simonrob

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Simonrob-not often you can say that! Not you personally, I hasten to add-not often "one" can say that. Still, the day is young.

I'm 10-45am-2.45pm on Monday now, too. I must say, I am looking forward to getting this one more than I have been with any other parcel this year. And there have been a few.

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15 years 9 months
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yet? anyone listen to these shows yet? searching for the sound, is it all there? dropouts? patches? pristine beauty? Bueller? I hear the 72 vinyl is fantastic, sure hope these cds are as phenomenal.

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13 years 1 month

In reply to by daverock

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I will go out on a limb and mirror your remarks. I listened to this run a few years ago, and that's my memory. That PITB/Dark Star Morning Dew sandwich is indeed the special sauce from the whole sequence.

..but in fairness, I have not gotten any of this yet, so no fully cleaned up listens. I could change my mind, but I doubt it.

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15 years 4 months

In reply to by simonrob

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My box now in Philadelphia with a UK delivery time of Monday 12:00 - 15:00. No ransom note yet but I expect I'll get one.

If you believe you have been charged excessively then you can contact UPS Postflights Department to clarify the charges on 0345 7 877877 or send an email to ukpostclearATups.com attaching the dead.net invoice, and make the subject your tracking number.

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11 years 9 months
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Was here when I got home from work last night!.

The box is nicely printed on and I don't mind the size. What I don't like is the way the cds are in the big box, you have to tip the box over to get them out (or have very long finger nails!) Not a big thing, since I'll only be taking them out to rip. The swag is cute.

Now on to the music!

Oh,,, somebody mentioned wasted space in the box,,, it's not wasted. If you push the hidden button the space will open up into a replica of the stage in 71,,,,, very impressive!!!

..... he's lying! Every time some white reporter shows up he says he box does something special.

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9 years 3 months

In reply to by Dennis

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1431 has landed in PA. I won't be able to listen until tonight but i'm so excited it's here.

Was surprised to hear the comments about the size - when it arrived i actually thought it would be bigger. It's basically the size of a personal-sized pizza box. Not bad at all. Enjoy, everyone!

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17 years 1 month

In reply to by 80sfan

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....that's what my wife says anyways and everyone loves pizza.
As far as the sound, I'm through the '71 shows so far and they sounded excellent 👌. Going to see the new James Bond movie this afternoon then will dip into 1972, which were recorded by Bear, so I'm sure they will be auditory bliss.
Btw, if anyone wants to check out some nifty Grateful Dead playing cards, go to theory11 dot com for some quality ones they offer, among others.
Obligatory joke.
What does James Bond's doorbell sound like?
Dong. Ding Dong.
Have a grate weekend everyone!!

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9 years 11 months

In reply to by IanM

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Ian - thanks for that-I think I'll give them a ring on Monday morning and see if they can account for the £63.15 charge. I've already paid it, but....well, see how far I get.

Jim - yes, my comments are pure speculation, of course, although I have heard 10/18/72 before. For me it is one of the great shows - and about to get better, if the vinyl is anything to go by. The dark horses for me in this set are the 1973 shows. Not much has been said about them so far.

As to the size or look of the actual box-I don't really mind about that. As long as the cds play ok I'm at peace.

Happy to finally get a delivery email. Arriving this coming Tuesday, can’t wait to start listening. I don’t care about the size of the box, I just care about the music. For those who already have it… enjoy your weekend.

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14 years 10 months
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Box set dimension is worrying me
I can't hardly sleep at night
'Cause of box set dimension

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5 years 10 months
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Just got back from a very windy bike ride to find that #00154 (lowest number yet...must mean I am cool) had landed on my door step. Still no shipping confirmation email, but I am here for the tunes not the emails. The rest of my Saturday has been spoken for! Yippeee!

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4 years

In reply to by proudfoot

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Listened to Yes Relayer all the way through

Some sections were out there

Some was good

Some was....meh

A pretty thick chunk of musical meat all around

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7 years 2 months
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Where is the number on the box, I looked all over the external box and internal box. Also, the corner of the box got bent in a little during shipping, not a huge deal, but I would prefer perfect. Live with it?

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7 years 5 months
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The Apollo has landed... the set opens with a great deal of witty banter before a 12/9/71 "Truckin'" with Phil telling people they can go across town and listen to Grand Funk Railroad... so far so good, great era, great set list, great vibes.

The limited edition # is stamped in foil on the back of the book. This is indeed a beautiful set, if there's one thing Rhino does well it is package art design. A thin, slim volume that is very bookshelf friendly, the inks are beautiful and I give it 5 stars out of 5. I am rarely disappointed by the design of these boxes, each unlike another and this one is no exception.

Glass of Jack Daniel's in hand and EVH Frankenstrat on my lap, I now leave you to embark on an hours long listening binge.

Bon Voyage!

\m/

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17 years 1 month

In reply to by LedDed

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....apologies ledded. But you really need to step up your whiskey/bourbon game. Other than that, rock on.

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7 years 2 months

In reply to by rowjimmy7

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I see it. Executed to rip and play the music. Can’t get enough 71.

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17 years 1 month

In reply to by rowjimmy7

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....what's the number? We're waiting.
You joined on my birthday btw. Cool.
Firing up 10.12.72 now.
I'm excited.
Ledded brought up a good point regarding the boxes. Every one of them is different. Even the Spring 90 and Spring TOO don't exactly match.
It's like the island of lost toys, but in Dead Box fashion lol.
Bird Song in the second slot on 10.12.72? That works. The sound is impeccable and no skips so far.
Thanks Bear!! Truly a magician/scientist. Onward!!

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7 years 2 months

In reply to by Vguy72

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2655. All 3 are good years and look like good shows. I love these early 70s shows. The packaging on this one is reasonable too, although hard not to slide out all the disks.

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17 years 1 month

In reply to by rowjimmy7

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....yup. Should have included some
ribbons. Minor complaint though.
Felt inserts in the digipacs wouldn't hurt either.

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17 years 1 month
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Got mine. The hardcover book has a whole section of pages that were manufactured upside down from page 5 through page 12. Page 4 goes to an upside down page 12. Anybody else have this printing mistake? If so than someone forgot to proof read the final product. If it's just mine I received a misprinted book.

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13 years 6 months

In reply to by SPACEBROTHER

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2252 and all the pages in the book are right side up (not upside out or inside down). Spacebro, I think you got the special collector's edition.

Disk 1 had some minor scratches on arrival. That would have helped. So far the other disks all look good. Again, they all play fine, just not quite perfect. My Giants Stadium box was the same. One of the digipaks wasn’t glued so the disk slid to the bottom. Minor issues though. As long as the disks are ok.

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17 years 1 month

In reply to by rowjimmy7

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....I have a poster from the 1999 Bob Dylan/Paul Simon tour that says Las Vegas, CA.
Walked up to the merch stand after the show and the vendor said "All we have left are these misprints."
I should've bought three.
Lucky Bro.

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10 years 5 months
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if the band in the first set of 12-9-71 -- Brown-Eyed Women, Mr. Charlie, and Tennessee Jed -- doesn't sound almost exactly like the Euro '72 band of four months later with Keith in high gear after two months in the keyboard chair. I know that shouldn't be astonishing -- only four months from St Louis to Europe -- but the sound quality and the playing were so close I had to comment.

As for the book, I had multiple pages glued together by a tiny area near the binding and the pages got damaged as I easee them apart. Otherwise, nice packaging, although I'll probably toss the box itself and shelve the individual shows chronologically in my '66 to '75 shelf.

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Did anyone else notice that the first set on 12-9-71 begins with quite muffled sound on Truckin'? At first I was taken aback, but the sound quickly improved to astounding quality -- but right at the start it's sub-par.

That is all for now. Finishing the first show tonight and taking a few days' break til 12-10-71.

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6 years 1 month
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Looking forward to this.
Surprised that we really have not seen the box set.
It is the level of creativity to these packages that keeps winning me over.
Has anyone done an unboxing YouTube video yet?
The Dead.net web site really is not showing much.

USPS left it at my front door before 1pm.

Did a quick inspection and the box itself is an epic waste of space. Approximately 3/8 of the interior is just air. So, not just a waste of shelf space but also a waste of materials and resources.
Looks like my book was printed correctly.
CD cases are paperboard like 30 Trips and Road Trips.

Overall dimensions, for those who haven’t received it but want to know, it’s a little bit smaller than an LP vinyl case and about 3 inches thick.

Will give a first listen tonight.

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In reply to by hendrixfreak

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No box yet, but thinking along the lines of Hendrixfeaks last but one post, I would say that when I think of 1971, as a year, I tend to think of the 5 man and not the one with Keith and Donna in it. From the moment Keith joined the sound changed to that explored in 1972. So 1972, for me starts in October 1971 and ends with Pigpens last show in summer 1972. Which is when 1973 starts.
The same argument applies to earlier years to some extent, too. The division of the bands progress and sound as being typified by particular years is quite arbitarary, when you come to think about it.

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