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    Srinivasan.Mut…
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    What's Inside:
    7 Previously Unreleased Complete Shows On 20 Discs
    Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/09/71
    Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/10/71
    Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/17/72
    Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/18/72
    Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/19/72
    Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/29/73
    Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/30/73
    Sourced from tapes recorded by Rex Jackson, Owsley "Bear" Stanley, and Kidd Candelario
    Mastered in HDCD by Jeffrey Norman
    Restoration and Speed Correction by Plangent Processes
     
    Individually Numbered, Limited Edition of 13,000

    Steamboats and BBQ, ice cream cones and Mardi Gras - are you ready to laissez les bons temps rouler with the "gateway" to the Grateful Dead? Meet us, won't you, in St. Louis for seven complete and previously unreleased Dead concerts that capture the heart of the band's affinity for the River City.
     
    LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73 is a 20CD set featuring five shows from the Fox Theatre - December 9 and 10, 1971; October 17-19, 1972; and two from the Kiel Auditorium - October 29 and 30, 1973. 
     
    The seven shows in the collection span slightly less than two years, but they represent some of the best shows the Grateful Dead played during some of its peak tours. The music tells the story of a band evolving, changing from one sound to another seamlessly, precipitated – in large part – by significant personnel changes in the Dead’s lineup.
     
    The two 1971 shows feature the original Grateful Dead lineup plus newcomer Keith Godchaux on piano. This version of the band would hold together for the next six months as the Dead embarked upon its Europe ’72 tour. By the time the Dead returned to the Fox Theatre less than a year later, they were without Pigpen, who’d played his final show with the Dead at the Hollywood Bowl on June 17, 1972. A year after the exceptional Fox 1972 shows, the Dead came back to St. Louis, but played the much larger Kiel Auditorium, touring behind the release of WAKE OF THE FLOOD, which came out just two weeks before.
     
    All told, the band played 60 different songs during these shows highlighted by blazing romps through “Beat It On Down The Line” and “One More Saturday Night” and wistful takes on “Row Jimmy” and “Brokedown Palace” (whose lyrics give the collection its name). Meanwhile, the copious jamming ebbed and flowed like the mighty Mississippi River on multiple voyages through “The Other One” and “Dark Star.” Naturally, the band paid tribute to one of its favorite rock and rollers and one of St. Louis’ biggest stars by playing Chuck Berry songs at every show in the collection, including Pigpen galloping through “Run Rudolph Run.”  
     
    Each show has been restored and speed corrected using Plangent Processes with mastering by Jeffrey Norman. The collection comes in a slipcase with artwork by Liane Plant and features an 84-page hardbound book as well as other Dead surprises. To set the stage for the music, the liner notes provide several essays about the shows, including one by Sam Cutler, the band’s tour manager during that era, and another by Grateful Dead scholar Nicholas G. Meriwether, among others. 
     
    Due October 1st, LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73, is limited to 13,000 individually numbered copies and available exclusively from Dead.net.

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  • #31
    daverock
    Joined:
    More art

    One of the most stunning experiences I had going to an art gallery was when I went to see "Sunflowers" by Van Gogh a few years ago. I eventually found the room it was in, and noticed a huddle of people in front of a painting on the far side of the room. One of them moved..and there it was. It had a spotlight on it so that the yellow of the flowers shone out into the room. Amazing...but as I got closer, I realised that it didn't have a light on it at all - the light was actually coming out from within the painting. Truly extraordinary.
    It's also quite an experience going to see his work in the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam. I just wandered in there by chance about 30 years ago. Wow.

  • #32
    Oroborous
    Joined:
    Conekid in the know

    per usual!
    Thanks, lol, never knew that request page existed. Goes to show, just gotta poke around!
    Those will get utilized more now for sure…Smithers, release the hounds!

    Yeah that RFK was probably too many units for what it was? Good example of doing say one of these a year at lower unit count along with a more traditional box release at perhaps less units?
    But I liked RFK, (hell I think they’ve done a great job with most) because that stretch from summer through the next summer is prime time for moi, and it sounds great, but they certainly weren’t the best available, once again the ole he went to a great city and street, but picked the wrong house? ? Wasn’t it relatively pricey too?
    But as we’ve all been saying, there’s a whole lot of causal heads out there who might not buy anything UNLESS it was something they were at. Perhaps explains the Giants phenomenon some what?
    That was sorta my M.O. back around turn of the century: “I have more than I need so I’m only going to get shows I was at. That worked out sorta ok at first by sheer dumb luck, but I eventually realized
    A) I’m not going to get many of those any time soon, if at all, and
    B) I’m missing out on some killer shit!
    The E72 Dark Stars are what really brought me back. Didn’t get the trunk but picked up several of the Dark Star shows Ala cart.
    So started dabbling again, but mostly just wanted the music and not more stuff. Luckily or not, my cousin used to get a lot of the releases free through their business connections with GDP etc, but when that all changed with Rhino etc, they lost those relationships. So I was able for a while to get copies of stuff he had that I wanted.
    But then I started getting back into it, hanging with you junkies etc lol, and next thing you know I’m a “collector”, just the thing I was trying to avoid lol.
    So of course the down side of only getting copies is all the great collection stuff I missed out on!
    The biggest regrets were the FW box and Winterland 73. The FW I just wasn’t very in dead land at the time and because of the repetitive set lists figured “oh hell, I have live dead already” idiot!
    Luckily I have the mini version and you know who here tightened me up with copies of the box, so at least I have the music!
    The Winterland 73, being fall 73, which even then was one of the tours I had huge interest in, I contemplated getting it, and man, wasn’t it really cheap considering, but I cheap skated out and have been regretting it ever since!
    Some of the others I regret only as a “collector” now, though I should have grabbed that summer 78, wasn’t that another bargain box?

    So yeah Daverock, the scene was relatively small until later. When I started going in late seventies there were tour heads, but not anything like what would come. I think the whole multi show run factor contributed to this. It was now much easier to just plan on a three show run or two, especially day on weekends, then to catch 5 or 6 shows, one stop at a time up and down I 90 etc.
    Now I know old timers talk of how it changed throughout the seventies, especially that huge influx of kids like me in the mid and late seventies, but I don’t think it was near as dramatic as what we saw from late seventies up too 87 when it exploded, perhaps leveled off a bit, but continued at a steady pace that unfortunately just got too big to support it properly. Fame, the kiss of death…

    ART: not a active art participant, but sometimes you get shown the light!
    We had a great Albright Knox gallery back in the tundra, and on family vaca to Europe in late seventies, went to tge Louvre etc. Don’t recall a lot of specifics, Mono Lisa etc? But it definitely impacted my thick adolescent Beavis and Butthead dumb American skull. That whole trip would of been much more awesome if I’d only been older.
    That Hopper work is cool. I’ve seen that corner diner one but wouldn’t say I was familiar. Will have to burn a fat one and check him out. Yasss great light etc. And yes, I can only imagine how much more sharp and vivid his work would be live!
    Good sheet Mon,
    Party on Wayne!

  • #33
    That Mike
    Joined:
    E-mail Survey

    DaveRock - Awesome idea with the email to all the folks on the mailing list. Something that perhaps itemizes what is in the vaults (no use clamouring for reels that don’t exist), and survey to see what is in high demand. I know on the Neil Young site, as an example, he has a “Letters” column where he states he answers ALL the letters himself (I’ve sent a few, and always get a reply), and the bulk of requests are folks asking him to release this show, or this tour, etc, and he tells you if the request is even doable. I don’t expect the Core Four to answer Dead Head mail, but a quick email survey is interesting. Maybe it is as easy as Ice Cream Kid says, and we just hit up the request thread, but it doesn’t tell us what tapes are in the vault, and what condition, etc.

    PS - Dave, you are right about seeing the art “in person”, but of course, work of say a DaVinci is so limited, so rare, and will not ever tour, that it would be so hard to see in person, save visiting Paris or Venice. But, should a major show make the rounds, like Picasso, or Diego Rivera/Frida Khalo, I’ve made a point to see it, and you are right - seeing a picture of these works does not do them justice! There is something about seeing The One And Only of something, knowing the artist worked on this piece. I’ll paraphrase Mr Ones al a “Music is the best”: “Art - and sports - are a close second!”

  • #34
    daverock
    Joined:
    A new approach

    Crmcnkd - I hadn't noticed that section asking us to make recommendations, so thanks for pointing that out. Maybe, though, the only people likely to fill that out are the people who come on here-all the old faces-and we know what they (we, me) will say in advance. I like the idea of reaching people who may not come on here - maybe an email like we get telling us what is coming out- but asking us what we would like to see coming out instead. The key is, it has to be "them" wanting a survey - as much, if not more, than "us" wanting to fill one in.

    Oro - thinking of casual fans of different eras, it reminds me of the fact that Deadheads didn't actually exist in the 1960s. I can't imagine early fans travelling around the country to see them. I guess it started with the invite to "Deadfreaks" on "Skull and Roses", but I would think it took several years before the travelling circus developed.

    It's interesting watching a documentary on late 60's San Francisco bands called "Go Ride The Music-West Pole". The main bands on this are Jefferson Airplane and Quicksilver Messenger Service - but at one point an interviewer asks people queuing up outside a concert hall, who their favourite bands are. I was expecting them to say "The Dead" automatically-but they don't. They are mentioned but they were clearly perceived at that time as just being another band, along with the two mentioned, Steve Miller, Janis etc.

    Mike - one of the great things about going to art galleries is how much more alive the originals are compared to the prints and posters you can see anywhere. I would say that going to an art gallery to look at paintings is a bit like going out to hear live music. If you go to any gallery, look at the originals, and then go in the gift shop and look at a book reproducing the originals you have just seen, the difference between the two is shocking.

  • #35
    icecrmcnkd
    Joined:
    Rehashing past speculation

    Don’t forget that several people, including myself, have previously told stories about talking to other deadheads who are completely clueless or disinterested in the official releases.

    The RFK Box is 15,000 copies and not sold out, although the banner says “less than 750 left”.
    My Boxes are packed away so I can’t check what the production numbers are, but 15,000 seems to be the limit except for a few releases that need an AME.
    I think that the last few Boxes were in the 10,000-12,000 range.

    Dave’s Picks can sell 25,000 due to people buying more than one subscription and resellers.
    And if you subscribe early bird you get 13 or 14 CD’s for $100, which is a pretty good deal.

    For those wanting to take a survey, there is a page on this site called ‘Requests - Box Sets’.
    I posted on it this morning, so use the ‘recent posts’ button to get to it, or use the search box.

  • #36
    That Mike
    Joined:
    Boxes & Paintings

    I am enjoying the discussion, because I’m hoping the marketing folks, or even the interns working at Rhino, see that this is a very passionate group of dedicated fans. Oro, I really think you have made some great points, and it is hard to please everyone (personally I have never been a hardcore 60s Dead fan, because that was before they came along with jewels like Wake of The Flood, Mars Hotel, etc, and all the outstanding concert material those albums brought forth), but so much work goes into the sourcing and mixing of the music in these boxes, and the art work, and the history to the scene happening at the time, that most, if not all, are home runs.
    Oro, you definitely hit the mark on many points, as did others, but collectively, as a group of fans, our mantra is “Keep ‘Em Coming!”

    DR - I love a wide range of art, and even doodle a bit myself, but Hopper is definitely an artist I have held in the highest esteem, for his amazing use of light and open space to paradoxically create figures of loneliness and solitude. If I can ever get my butt to NYC, the Whitney Museum of American Art is where I plan to sleep; the guy was an American master, and really nice to hear you too see his immense talent.

    Last listen - McLaughlin/Corea - Five Peace Band Live
    On Deck - Ry Cooder - The UFO Has Landed

  • #37
    1stshow70878
    Joined:
    Great Discussion

    I think I fall into the category y'all are citing here. Not quite into it as much as the die-hards but wanting it all anyway. The LTTR box was more money than I was willing to put out at the time so I chose the LIA vinyl instead. A trade off decided by my having already pre-ordered Dave's #1 vinyl and simply wanting to get more vinyl. Interestingly, all the fantastic comments have me alternately regretting my choice and being satisfied with a taste of '72. DR said recently the chunk I have on Light Into Ashes is the crux of the biscuit of the box so today I feel satisfied. My collecting took a hiatus around the time the big Europe '72 trunk came out but kindly folks here are helping me fill that void. Thanks to all for keeping the fire alive. It's so nice to have reliable information from everyone here in our disinformation shrouded world.
    Cheers all!

  • #38
    Oroborous
    Joined:
    Great comments

    Mike, the 60s vibe, that’s a good example of what I’m saying. To “US”, the hardcore lunatics at deadnet, there appears to be an overwhelming unified consensus demanding a 60s box, but perhaps if you did a survey like DR suggests, our sample might be quite small comparatively? Just talking out me arse, but worth a thought?
    You’d think they’d be doing marketing , but maybe not? Maybe they have been so fortunate to have enough of a loyal, reliable, bankable demand that they could just go with whatever they felt was good?

    Personally, I think it’s good when things don’t sell out immediately. Gives some folks like P.T. etc a chance to decide or what not if they want to buy it. Or maybe you didn’t hear about it right a way, and as the bastard Murphy would have it, your busted after getting yet another of your kids braces, while the other kid smashed the car, and your washing machine broke. Like “Whaaaa???, you want $300 tomorrow morning, Dooaahh”
    But these are singular micro type scenarios and we’re talking macro level.
    Maybe DR is right and the nostalgia factor is bigger then I think, in that logistically, because of age, there are more casual fans from the later years than the early ones. Hell statistically, comparatively there weren’t that many causal fans in the early years. Let’s face it, for good or for ill, as time advanced there were way more causal “lets just go party and check it out folks” going to shows.
    So maybe that’s part of it, when/if something that this larger population feels more akin to comes round, their more likely to buy it, then yet another older moldy from a time they don’t know or care about because they’ve never been in that deep?
    I guess it’s probably a perfect storm of all the things we’ve been discussing? All these factors add up and the amount of units we’re talking about isn’t really that large, so…
    But!….that’s all the more reason to deliver more, but smaller batches of certain eras!

    Though I understand why a Giants type box would sell so fast, I still, do not understand fully how this box, by now, has not? Shifting market demographics and saturation is my guess though?
    Just goes to show…

  • #39
    daverock
    Joined:
    Tip of the hat

    ThatMike - my eyes lit up when you mentioned Edward Hopper. I really like his work too. About 20 years ago there was great exhibition on in London, and it was a real treat to be able to go from room to room and get drawn into his world. You can see his influence sometimes in films -"Deep Red" by Dario Argento features a scene that is clearly modelled on "The Nighthawks". And although I can't think of specific examples at the moment, Alfred Hitchcock and David Lynch feature scenes in some of their films that look to me to have been influenced by Hopper's way of seeing things.

  • #40
    PT Barnum
    Joined:
    format? sound quality? putting great shows with good shows?

    IMO there seems to be lots of reasons why this has not sold out. I did not buy it and I buy them all. After the so so patch jobs on the PNW box which I did not care for, I passed on this box. These are all good shows, with great shows mixed in. Call me a snob but I want all great shows with no cuts or patches. If that's not possible then I will just keep what I got from the archive or from etree, why spend that kind of scratch for shows I already have that only sound a bit better?
    The format could be the reason, some only want from the era they were a part of, mostly 80's from what I gather here. I like the progression of the band from psychedelic juggernaut to what they became, but not everyone's cup of tea.
    Perhaps it's the ploy of putting out most requested shows with shows that are not up to the great show that they are centered around? The original great box was a tough act to follow, seeings how the E72 tour was their best tour and it was the first one released with a massive 73 discs. With that great price. How to follow that? It's been what tptb have been asking themselves since.
    The spring 90 boxes are a good example of that also, a great tour with consistently great shows released at a great price, which sold out quickly.
    But what do I know? just the ramblings of an old deadhead on the first day of Spring.

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Submitted by Srinivasan.Mut… on
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Dead Store Products

What's Inside:
7 Previously Unreleased Complete Shows On 20 Discs
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/09/71
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/10/71
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/17/72
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/18/72
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/19/72
Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/29/73
Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/30/73
Sourced from tapes recorded by Rex Jackson, Owsley "Bear" Stanley, and Kidd Candelario
Mastered in HDCD by Jeffrey Norman
Restoration and Speed Correction by Plangent Processes
 
Individually Numbered, Limited Edition of 13,000

Steamboats and BBQ, ice cream cones and Mardi Gras - are you ready to laissez les bons temps rouler with the "gateway" to the Grateful Dead? Meet us, won't you, in St. Louis for seven complete and previously unreleased Dead concerts that capture the heart of the band's affinity for the River City.
 
LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73 is a 20CD set featuring five shows from the Fox Theatre - December 9 and 10, 1971; October 17-19, 1972; and two from the Kiel Auditorium - October 29 and 30, 1973. 
 
The seven shows in the collection span slightly less than two years, but they represent some of the best shows the Grateful Dead played during some of its peak tours. The music tells the story of a band evolving, changing from one sound to another seamlessly, precipitated – in large part – by significant personnel changes in the Dead’s lineup.
 
The two 1971 shows feature the original Grateful Dead lineup plus newcomer Keith Godchaux on piano. This version of the band would hold together for the next six months as the Dead embarked upon its Europe ’72 tour. By the time the Dead returned to the Fox Theatre less than a year later, they were without Pigpen, who’d played his final show with the Dead at the Hollywood Bowl on June 17, 1972. A year after the exceptional Fox 1972 shows, the Dead came back to St. Louis, but played the much larger Kiel Auditorium, touring behind the release of WAKE OF THE FLOOD, which came out just two weeks before.
 
All told, the band played 60 different songs during these shows highlighted by blazing romps through “Beat It On Down The Line” and “One More Saturday Night” and wistful takes on “Row Jimmy” and “Brokedown Palace” (whose lyrics give the collection its name). Meanwhile, the copious jamming ebbed and flowed like the mighty Mississippi River on multiple voyages through “The Other One” and “Dark Star.” Naturally, the band paid tribute to one of its favorite rock and rollers and one of St. Louis’ biggest stars by playing Chuck Berry songs at every show in the collection, including Pigpen galloping through “Run Rudolph Run.”  
 
Each show has been restored and speed corrected using Plangent Processes with mastering by Jeffrey Norman. The collection comes in a slipcase with artwork by Liane Plant and features an 84-page hardbound book as well as other Dead surprises. To set the stage for the music, the liner notes provide several essays about the shows, including one by Sam Cutler, the band’s tour manager during that era, and another by Grateful Dead scholar Nicholas G. Meriwether, among others. 
 
Due October 1st, LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73, is limited to 13,000 individually numbered copies and available exclusively from Dead.net.

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Submitted by joebacons on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 05:24

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No 01163 just arrived here in northern Scotland. No hold-ups, fees, etc. - not even a customs sticker. I'm so happy!

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3 years 5 months

Submitted by jjc on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 05:26

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Primo top shelf Grateful Dead! God Bless The Grateful Dead!

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6 years 7 months

Submitted by SteveGold425 on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 07:43

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Ive already gone twice through this top to bottom and to my ears this is about as good as a box set gets - these shows are all so well played from such a prime era and the sound quality is exceptional. I love all the banter they caught as well - really adds to the whole vibe. There are so many highlights on each and every show but right now that Playin' from 12/17/72 is in my head. With a primer of some good indica that is a hell of a 23 minutes journey. Im sure the comparisons have been made before - but some of the deeper explorations on Dark Star/PITB/ Other One that the Dead were up to from 72-74 can remind me of the Miles Davis "Bitches Brew" era band. They were all so in synch and the when you can really hear what everyone is up to, it hits just how far into the jazz-funk-fusion they took it at times and howe damn good they were

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Submitted by 80sfan on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 08:32

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I'm trying to take my time and really digest what i'm hearing. I've finished both 71 shows and the first night of the 72 run. I can't tell you how happy i am to have these - great shows, great sound. I'm going to take a couple days off before jumping back in (i also need to give my old eardrums a bit of a rest). Hope everyone is enjoying this...

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Submitted by 1stshow70878 on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 08:46

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SteveG, that's EXACTLY what I said when I heard the 13 minute version from 10-18-72. I'm assuming you meant the 23 minute PITB from 10-17-72. The improvisational but tight jazziness made me think of my fusion favorites Return To Forever and Weather Report. Billy IS a jazz drummer. My insight was also indica influenced. Have not found a sativa I really like! Many friends prefer the more cerebral high but for me the initial buzz usually feels more paranoid and most of the strains I've tried have a lousy flavor or aftertaste. Usually an immature greenness or plastic-y. And these are top shelf offerings. Where has all the Paonia gone? (CO W. Slope's equivalent to Humbolt/Mendicino) But I digress. Cheers!

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Submitted by SteveGold425 on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 09:03

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Thanks for the correction on the date. Its the 10/17/72 version indeed. Ive been swimming with all these shows (and the accompanying indicas :) -since Saturday afternoon so Im getting a wee fuzzy :) YES! that 23 minute PITB is as good as any I can think of. Truly Exquisite.

Arrived last evening. Have not had the chance to listen yet, as I was finishing up a re-listen to to Get Shown the Light. Cannot cut that short without listening to all of Buffalo (Help > Slip > Franks, Music, and Comes A Time especially).

Still, everything looks mint. CD all there and look undamaged. Box undamaged. I like the outer box, I must say. Plus as a baldie, the GD bandana with the Listen to the River artwork on it was a cool & unexpected bonus! I get the space issues for the boxes, but most of them have a big box that cannot fit on the shelf (Europe '72, 30 Trips, both the Spring 90's, PNW, Giants). The ones that entirely fit are usually the smaller ones (Fillmore West, Winterland's, Warlocks, RFK). The May '77 and Red Rocks are the exception.

Only negative is the artwork (or lack thereof) on the CD cases. And I kind of like having the setlist on the back. But no biggie. I must say, I do like the artwork on the discs themselves, and the fact that the middle CD spot can come out either side and has a small cutout where it can be grabbed on both sides. That was a nice touch, the middle sucker can be a pain to get out sometimes. An improvement.

Cannot wait to listen, but gotta get finish 5/9/77 first. Some Pig, some primo '72 and jazzy '73. Cannot wait!

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Submitted by Jason Wilder on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 09:19

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In the booklet saying the Dead were a jazz band playing rock & roll. With one drummer, that was certainly true the most from '71-'74.

there is one big bushy plant

they trim everything from that one big bushy plant

then they put it into different packages with different labels and prices

it's all the same stuff, in my opinion

Janis Joplin said, "It's all the same fucking day, man!"

I say, "It's all the same fucking weed, man!"

My beloved thinks I am crazy, but that's my personal opinion.

And it hasn't been the same since they made it legal, anyway.

Just my thoughts.

I need more time to "listen to the river", man!!!

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15 years 11 months

Submitted by estimated-eyes on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 10:15

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What a box set. As others noted, there is a bit of an issue getting the cds safely out of the box, the 1972 shows tend to fall out of mine when I tip the box to remove a show. But really, long run I am going to remove them from the big box and store the shows with the rest of my CD collection. First World problems. Overall, it is a beauty and I like the extras.

Music-- I have only listened to two shows, 12/10/71 and 10/18/72. What exceptional concerts and really good recordings. Bob's and Jerry's guitars are really separated well, Phil pounds away (nice solo on the 72 Dark Star), Billy is always solid and ready to turn on a dime and Keith adds a lot of different piano runs. This is truly my favorite Grateful Dead with the straight up rock and roll of 71 and then the jazz fusion thing from late 72-74. Billy played jazz-style and don't underestimate Bobby's guitar licks under Jerry's lead driving the jazzy style of that era-- what did Bobby say, he channeled Tyner McCoy's piano chords? The Playing-Dark Star-Dew-Playing might be one of my favorite sequences ever. Wow!

Sound-wise, the first half of 10/18/72 has a bit of a buzz underneath, but it doesn't detract from the whole. There is also a patch in the Sitting on Top of the World from the 71 show, but that may be the best patch I have heard them use over the years. Can't wait to hear the entire box.

Overall, very happy with this box set. Exceptional choices.

I think I have sent you a PM- but it seems to have got tangled up with one I sent Marye a while back ! I'm not quite sure how that happened, so apologies to both of you if that's the case.

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Submitted by JDSept on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 11:27

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Just got mine, have not listened to anything yet but as usual great packaging. I wonder about showing DEAD on outside of cardboard outer wrapping. An incentive to steal perhaps. I knew when coming and own home so waited for mailperson. But if one lives in an apartment with smaller mail box do they just leave it on the floor? Also some little gifts not advertised or needed to sell it. Just some neat surprise additions.

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9 years 2 months

Submitted by wave-that-flag on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 12:21

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The Fox Box rocks sonically and aesthetically. Great job and thanks to all involved! 71-‘73 high quality Dead! It gets no better. Displayed on the bookcase!

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6 years 10 months

Submitted by ShaggyFraggle on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 13:03

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...in la belle province. Considering this whole set is a wonderful lead-up to my absolutely favourite holiday (or perhaps evilday), I'll take the compliment.

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Submitted by Bolderdash on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 13:49

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As others have pointed out, receiving a fancy boxset with Grateful Dead iconography prominently all over it is kind of asking for a mishap. I own my own house now but it wasn't that long ago that I was in an apartment, in a college town. Plus I am hearing many have received banged-up / dented copies of what is truly a work of art in terms of the sweet packaging. Why the heck can't Dead.net just package a box inside of a box and eliminate both of these risks? It's not as if we are getting this stuff for free, y 'know - people are handing over good money for these luxuries. I won't even comment on the fact that UPS Sure Post is also pretty skimpy. I feel lucky that -- this time! -- my package was not lost in some tracking limbo for days or weeks on end.

p.s. I burn CD-R backups and leave the discs in their cases. Best way to avoid scratches and falls, IMO..

Got mine yesterday, just now sampling the music and it's some exciting stuff. And I am another fan of Bill Kreutzmann as a jazz drummer. I know there is always a trade-off in the one drummer vs. two drummer equation but I can never help feeling like Mickey is holding back Billy from doing things are much more interesting and nuanced (this applies to Dead & Co as well, actually...). Yeah there are plenty of songs that would have been impossible with just one drummer, or at least inadequate, but plenty of others where I'll often find myself wishing Mickey would take a break, go and have a smoke or something, or maybe play hand percussion instead of trap kit. Billy had bonafide jazz chops (at least he did between 71-74) and could do really subtle stuff that just ain't possible with the "octopus".

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Submitted by hendrixfreak on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 15:38

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I like the two drummer approach when the band was a six-headed, fire-breathing dragon, '67-'69, even through early '71, but his departure really gave BK opportunity to hone his contributions. After the hiatus, when the band launched from theaters into bigger joints, Mickey's return seemed to work out, although one poster has likened his drumming to "sneakers in the dryer," which I find both hilarious and pretty accurate. By the time the band had reached mega-popularity and the largest venues, Mickey helped BK make drumz-space a show in itself.

Still, I caught a few big shows with just BK and they sure did go over well. (RFK '73, Watkins Glen, Nassau Col 9/73...)

Yet, when I listen to 6-19-76, the drummers work like hand in glove. So it goes.

Quote of the day: "Where has all the Paonia gone?" That's a catchy little tune... (What the hell is Proudfoot smokin'?? It sure ain't all the same, judging from his enthusiastic "interjections"!!)

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Submitted by JohnL on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 15:49

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Just received # 08410. Very nice set!
Started with disc 2 of 10/18/72, Wow!, the Dark Star is like none I've heard before, unique jams abound, and sound quality is stellar!

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Submitted by wave-that-flag on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 18:30

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Anyone else have a quite noticeable skip after the count on BIODTL on disc one of 10/18/72?

Edit: Think it just a Weir vocal slip after the 14 count. Carry on!

Bolderdash, I was curious about your comment, "There are plenty of songs that would have been impossible with just one drummer." Just wondering which you thought those were? I can find stuff to love in every era, but '72-'74 -- peak one drummer -- is really my jam. What are the songs you think that just wouldn't work without two folks behind kits? I love hearing from other Heads about the stuff that might go by me.

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Submitted by Angry Jack Straw on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 19:31

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You are off to a great start, but those Kraken jerseys are awesome.

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Submitted by billy the kidd on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 19:49

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have landed in the Bay Area and it looks fantastic. Reading everybodys comments, I'm sure it sounds fantastic too.

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Submitted by The Outer One on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 20:01

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Who's that knockin' at my door at 8pm on a rainy Tuesday night? Why the friendly guy from UPS! Big surprise, but a very pleasant surprise at that!

Delivery notice on October 6th; delivery on October 12th - one week exactly. Record time. Maybe Dave put in a word on my behalf as a fellow Islander? Whatever the reason, grateful indeed.

Time to press "play".

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Submitted by Bolderdash on Tue, 10/12/2021 - 22:06

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well, "impossible" was too strong a word... Mostly I point to these below because they are all songs that I only know with the two of them (I'm not up to speed on Billy & The Kids and I need to fix that). These come to mind:
Help->Slipnot>Franklin's
Lazy Lightning>Supplication (and yes I know Kingfish did it first with just one drummer but still..)
Samson & Delilah
Fire On The Mountain
*St. Stephen (originally left this out because it seemed obvious)
Dancing In The Street
...probably a few others, but yeah not a huge list really..

So, obviously not "impossible", they can and have been executed by just one drummer. Maybe I was trying to throw a sop to the Mickey-heads out there. I appreciate the extra texture and occasional poly-rhythms of having eight limbs on those, is all.

Regarding "sneakers in a drier", I've heard that phrase used just to describe the Dead's drum sound in general during the 1980s, or maybe more specifically Healy's mix of the drums. But it probably does come down to Mickey. I've noticed he is playing with some kind of BDSM toys instead of sticks now, too...

Bolderdash - I assumed you were talking about the 1967-1970 period when you suggested that some songs sounded better with two drummers. To me, everything they played sounded great ( not necessarily better) with two drummers up until about mid 1969. When they started playing more country based material, the great 7 man band suddenly sounded a bit cumbersome to me. They still cooked on the jams, but I'm not sure Mickey-or T.C. come to that, had much to say on "Uncle John's" and the country covers. Something that stymied 1970, to my ears, a bit.

As for when Mickey rejoined - I don't know about that. It would have been interesting to hear Help-Slipknot Franklins with just Bill. What I will also say, though, is when I saw them at Wembley, on 11/1/90, drums and space were the most enjoyable sections of the show. Very powerful and out there - it doesn't really come across on recordings.
To pick a song that defined the two drummer power, I would go for "The Eleven". "The Other One" also rocked like never again between 1968-70 - my favourite ever version being 5/2/70. It became totally different after Mickey left, and even more so when Keith joined. Still execeptional, but with completely different dynamics.

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Submitted by Dark-Star on Wed, 10/13/2021 - 03:04

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Help Slip Franklin may have sounded better with just Billy. I'm all for Mickey during the primal Dead years, but compare just about anything from the 1 drummer period to the same song in the 2 drummer period, and 9x out of 10 it sounds better with Bill alone. 2 drummers detract from a lot of those early songs. Mickey's one great contribution after his return was composing FOTM. For the most part I prefer Scarlet Begonias with 2 drummers but was it worth the trade off? Not to me. Then all the sudden Bobby is playing weird sounding guitars and changing his style to find his sonic place on stage and Keith was just sitting back going who is this guy and why is he kissing my wife? Not to mention making more noise than a busted chainsaw. I can't hear my piano, time to get a louder electric one.

Awesome box set, a dream come true.

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Submitted by Cousins Of The… on Wed, 10/13/2021 - 06:39

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Something's wrong with private messages, can't find the one I sent you yesterday, or any from this year.
Anyway, hope you enjoy the Starday box...

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Submitted by JDSept on Wed, 10/13/2021 - 06:40

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very interesting opening with "Truckin" unusual usually a second setter. Also the longest tune of the night.

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Submitted by JDSept on Wed, 10/13/2021 - 06:43

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I can do either. Though I do think the two drummer adds quite a bit with more going on in the background and ups the energy at times.

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Submitted by Angry Jack Straw on Wed, 10/13/2021 - 08:36

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That was a damn funny post. Thank you.

Vguy - looked to me like a kick, but nothing I will ever lose sleep over.

Hoping to get to the box tonight.

PMs are not working.

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Submitted by proudfoot on Wed, 10/13/2021 - 09:14

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but no one listened to me

sports...be gone!

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Submitted by Crow Told Me on Wed, 10/13/2021 - 10:58

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I have to agree: in most cases BK > BK + MH.

Two drummers were indeed great during the primal Dead years, and I wouldn’t change a note of Live Dead or just about anything else I’ve heard from ’69. And there are years like ‘77 when the two drummers were really working together well. But I think that there are reasons that the Dead were at a peak from ’71-’74, and one of them is that BK had a lot more freedom when he didn’t have to worry about what Mickey was doing, and he played with incredible finesse and responsiveness to what the band was doing and better dynamics than we usually got with the two drummer lineups.

And he was funky! For whatever reason, Bill always seems to have a little New Orleans in his bass drum playing, and he kind of invented his own brand of laid back funk (with that New Orleans accent on the end of four) that you can hear on Tennessee and He’s Gone and some others.

To my ears, Mickey’s fills are often not in time, and I think it sometimes messes up what Bill is doing, that always bugs me. Not a big fan of cowbell, either. But the main thing that happened with two drummers in the later years is that the drums got louder, and there was a heavier accent on 2 and 4, and maybe that needed to happen when the Dead started playing football stadiums, but for me the music just loses some of the funk and some of the jazziness it had with just Bill. IMO, and all the other standard disclaimers about this being only what I hear, and you are free to dig on whatever version of the band floats yr proverbial boat. Meanwhile, I’ll be digging the StL set, in large part for its large doses of BK.

Somebody said, Is there funk after death?

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Submitted by daverock on Wed, 10/13/2021 - 11:02

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Cousins...sorry, I've just tried again, starting with a new message - but it's just rebounded back to me.
The Starday box is a great historical document, looks beautiful and has a great hard back book full of information on the recordings and artists. It features more hillbilly than rockabilly - which is slightly outside my comfort zone. But none the worse for that. The sound quality is good-bearing in mind the fact that this were originally very rudimentary recordings.
Incidentally, I bought this box on the strength of two 3 cd sets I got last year of recordings made on the Starday label-named respectively "It's Saturday Night !" and "Teenage Blues". They are on the budget Fantastic Voyage label-but sound great - more weighted towards rockabilly, and featuring many tracks that are on the big box.

Sorry for jamming up space with a non Dead post. Still enjoying the new box. Superb the way Truckin", on 12/10/71, starts to move into a different dimension as it winds down. The music up to this point seemed more earth bound - which is fine-I am not a creature of the air - but the show, and the box as a whole, really takes off from this verison of "Truckin" onwards.

Nice to see your thinkin', Bolderdash. Fun to imagine what some of that later stuff would've sounded like with only one person behind a kit. I can picture a few things where leaner might not be better.

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Submitted by leedesj on Wed, 10/13/2021 - 11:09

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yeah, i received the box, it's beautiful if not totally practical in design, but then how practical is it to buy a $200 set and then proceed to listen to all of it for free on the archive while waiting for it (which is what i did), so i obtained a tape including most of the 2nd set of 12/10/71 during the one year i lived in st louis (during 11th grade), and even though my old tape had a minor warble especially on a couple of the early tunes it sounded so great and so different from the modern dead of that era (1983), i wore it out, it was one of my first early 70's jam tapes, now with dozens and dozens of primo early 70s other ones easily available i still think 12/10/71 is a stand-out, i never even considered until last night that sittin on top of the world with its "mississippi river so big and wide" opening line makes perfect sense in that particular river town, i have always loved the piano sound with all that sustain pedal action in Dec 71, i have listened to all the 71 discs so far and they sound perfect, and so glad they included the hilarious banter prior to the 12/10 /71 truckin, my old tape had it but versions on the archive don't, thanks

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Submitted by drpryan on Wed, 10/13/2021 - 11:25

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#859 and in one piece. Love the 70's. Jeff Smith, has yours arrived as I'm ripping to the computer now and missing ur great covers
drp out

I placed an order 2 weeks ago for a St. Lous long sleeve shirt. You took my money, but my item still hasn’t shipped. I tried to contact customer support, but the phone number no longer works. I sent an email, but no response. The lack of support for a band this rich is maddening.

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Submitted by wilfredtjones on Wed, 10/13/2021 - 13:15

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My box will likely arrive today. I'll update later with number. I hope it's 00420. Thanks Dead.net!

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Submitted by simonrob on Wed, 10/13/2021 - 14:04

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To contact Customer Service you should use the contact formula which can be found at

store.dead.net/contacts

I'm pretty sure telephone and email contact has been rendered obsolete and is no longer possible.

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8 years 2 months

Submitted by DeadVikes on Wed, 10/13/2021 - 15:09

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Mine arrived today. #7985. I figured out why they didn't do an unboxing video. How would you do it? It would be a lot of fumbling around.

The problem with these CD slipcases is the minute you pull a CD out of the case you will have scratches. Same issue with E72 and 30 Trips. I really prefer the digi packs they use for the Dave's, PNW, 90s box sets etc.

Looking forward to the music!

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Submitted by Duece on Wed, 10/13/2021 - 15:52

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Box arrived today.
1) Does anyone have the artwork for the individual shows?
2) Lots of scratches, thinking condition of CDs may have played a part in the delay. Anyone have Dr Rhino contact info?
Thanks in advance!

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7 years 8 months

Submitted by carlo13 on Wed, 10/13/2021 - 16:13

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Real cool, man. The box itself has its problems but the music is what counts. I have a few minor scratches on disk 10 (of course it the Darkstar disk) but it is what it is. Book is real cool and the extras are cool too. The first disk is sounding great. It's nice to hear new releases close to the 60s. Nice banter too. The picture of keith having a smoke might be the coolest pic.of the year.

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Submitted by wilfredtjones on Wed, 10/13/2021 - 16:24

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Box# 00420 delivered at 4:20 Pm CST :-) :-) :-)

This kind of stuff RARELY happens to me. So I am sooooooo HAPPY!!!!!!!!!

Thank you Dead.net for my early Birthday and Christmas present!

What a WONDERFUL surprise. Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!

product sku
889198321643
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https://store.dead.net/special-edition-shops/st-louis-collection/listen-to-the-river-st-louis-71-72-73-20-cd-1.html