Listen To The River: St. Louis '71 '72 '73 (20-CD)

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July 21, 2021 - 6:32am

1,587 replies

Srinivasan.Mut…

Joined:
July 2, 2018

What's Inside:
7 Previously Unreleased Complete Shows On 20 Discs
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/09/71
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/10/71
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/17/72
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/18/72
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/19/72
Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/29/73
Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/30/73
Sourced from tapes recorded by Rex Jackson, Owsley "Bear" Stanley, and Kidd Candelario
Mastered in HDCD by Jeffrey Norman
Restoration and Speed Correction by Plangent Processes

Individually Numbered, Limited Edition of 13,000

Steamboats and BBQ, ice cream cones and Mardi Gras - are you ready to laissez les bons temps rouler with the "gateway" to the Grateful Dead? Meet us, won't you, in St. Louis for seven complete and previously unreleased Dead concerts that capture the heart of the band's affinity for the River City.

LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73 is a 20CD set featuring five shows from the Fox Theatre - December 9 and 10, 1971; October 17-19, 1972; and two from the Kiel Auditorium - October 29 and 30, 1973.

The seven shows in the collection span slightly less than two years, but they represent some of the best shows the Grateful Dead played during some of its peak tours. The music tells the story of a band evolving, changing from one sound to another seamlessly, precipitated – in large part – by significant personnel changes in the Dead’s lineup.

The two 1971 shows feature the original Grateful Dead lineup plus newcomer Keith Godchaux on piano. This version of the band would hold together for the next six months as the Dead embarked upon its Europe ’72 tour. By the time the Dead returned to the Fox Theatre less than a year later, they were without Pigpen, who’d played his final show with the Dead at the Hollywood Bowl on June 17, 1972. A year after the exceptional Fox 1972 shows, the Dead came back to St. Louis, but played the much larger Kiel Auditorium, touring behind the release of WAKE OF THE FLOOD, which came out just two weeks before.

All told, the band played 60 different songs during these shows highlighted by blazing romps through “Beat It On Down The Line” and “One More Saturday Night” and wistful takes on “Row Jimmy” and “Brokedown Palace” (whose lyrics give the collection its name). Meanwhile, the copious jamming ebbed and flowed like the mighty Mississippi River on multiple voyages through “The Other One” and “Dark Star.” Naturally, the band paid tribute to one of its favorite rock and rollers and one of St. Louis’ biggest stars by playing Chuck Berry songs at every show in the collection, including Pigpen galloping through “Run Rudolph Run.”

Each show has been restored and speed corrected using Plangent Processes with mastering by Jeffrey Norman. The collection comes in a slipcase with artwork by Liane Plant and features an 84-page hardbound book as well as other Dead surprises. To set the stage for the music, the liner notes provide several essays about the shows, including one by Sam Cutler, the band’s tour manager during that era, and another by Grateful Dead scholar Nicholas G. Meriwether, among others.

Due October 1st, LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73, is limited to 13,000 individually numbered copies and available exclusively from Dead.net.

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March 20, 2022 - 4:57pm

#31

daverock

Joined:
September 1, 2014

More art

One of the most stunning experiences I had going to an art gallery was when I went to see "Sunflowers" by Van Gogh a few years ago. I eventually found the room it was in, and noticed a huddle of people in front of a painting on the far side of the room. One of them moved..and there it was. It had a spotlight on it so that the yellow of the flowers shone out into the room. Amazing...but as I got closer, I realised that it didn't have a light on it at all - the light was actually coming out from within the painting. Truly extraordinary.
It's also quite an experience going to see his work in the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam. I just wandered in there by chance about 30 years ago. Wow.
March 20, 2022 - 2:07pm

#32

Oroborous

Joined:
June 19, 2007

Conekid in the know

per usual!
Thanks, lol, never knew that request page existed. Goes to show, just gotta poke around!
Those will get utilized more now for sure…Smithers, release the hounds!

Yeah that RFK was probably too many units for what it was? Good example of doing say one of these a year at lower unit count along with a more traditional box release at perhaps less units?
But I liked RFK, (hell I think they’ve done a great job with most) because that stretch from summer through the next summer is prime time for moi, and it sounds great, but they certainly weren’t the best available, once again the ole he went to a great city and street, but picked the wrong house? ? Wasn’t it relatively pricey too?
But as we’ve all been saying, there’s a whole lot of causal heads out there who might not buy anything UNLESS it was something they were at. Perhaps explains the Giants phenomenon some what?
That was sorta my M.O. back around turn of the century: “I have more than I need so I’m only going to get shows I was at. That worked out sorta ok at first by sheer dumb luck, but I eventually realized
A) I’m not going to get many of those any time soon, if at all, and
B) I’m missing out on some killer shit!
The E72 Dark Stars are what really brought me back. Didn’t get the trunk but picked up several of the Dark Star shows Ala cart.
So started dabbling again, but mostly just wanted the music and not more stuff. Luckily or not, my cousin used to get a lot of the releases free through their business connections with GDP etc, but when that all changed with Rhino etc, they lost those relationships. So I was able for a while to get copies of stuff he had that I wanted.
But then I started getting back into it, hanging with you junkies etc lol, and next thing you know I’m a “collector”, just the thing I was trying to avoid lol.
So of course the down side of only getting copies is all the great collection stuff I missed out on!
The biggest regrets were the FW box and Winterland 73. The FW I just wasn’t very in dead land at the time and because of the repetitive set lists figured “oh hell, I have live dead already” idiot!
Luckily I have the mini version and you know who here tightened me up with copies of the box, so at least I have the music!
The Winterland 73, being fall 73, which even then was one of the tours I had huge interest in, I contemplated getting it, and man, wasn’t it really cheap considering, but I cheap skated out and have been regretting it ever since!
Some of the others I regret only as a “collector” now, though I should have grabbed that summer 78, wasn’t that another bargain box?

So yeah Daverock, the scene was relatively small until later. When I started going in late seventies there were tour heads, but not anything like what would come. I think the whole multi show run factor contributed to this. It was now much easier to just plan on a three show run or two, especially day on weekends, then to catch 5 or 6 shows, one stop at a time up and down I 90 etc.
Now I know old timers talk of how it changed throughout the seventies, especially that huge influx of kids like me in the mid and late seventies, but I don’t think it was near as dramatic as what we saw from late seventies up too 87 when it exploded, perhaps leveled off a bit, but continued at a steady pace that unfortunately just got too big to support it properly. Fame, the kiss of death…

ART: not a active art participant, but sometimes you get shown the light!
We had a great Albright Knox gallery back in the tundra, and on family vaca to Europe in late seventies, went to tge Louvre etc. Don’t recall a lot of specifics, Mono Lisa etc? But it definitely impacted my thick adolescent Beavis and Butthead dumb American skull. That whole trip would of been much more awesome if I’d only been older.
That Hopper work is cool. I’ve seen that corner diner one but wouldn’t say I was familiar. Will have to burn a fat one and check him out. Yasss great light etc. And yes, I can only imagine how much more sharp and vivid his work would be live!
Good sheet Mon,
Party on Wayne!
March 20, 2022 - 12:57pm

#33

That Mike

Joined:
November 1, 2014

E-mail Survey

DaveRock - Awesome idea with the email to all the folks on the mailing list. Something that perhaps itemizes what is in the vaults (no use clamouring for reels that don’t exist), and survey to see what is in high demand. I know on the Neil Young site, as an example, he has a “Letters” column where he states he answers ALL the letters himself (I’ve sent a few, and always get a reply), and the bulk of requests are folks asking him to release this show, or this tour, etc, and he tells you if the request is even doable. I don’t expect the Core Four to answer Dead Head mail, but a quick email survey is interesting. Maybe it is as easy as Ice Cream Kid says, and we just hit up the request thread, but it doesn’t tell us what tapes are in the vault, and what condition, etc.

PS - Dave, you are right about seeing the art “in person”, but of course, work of say a DaVinci is so limited, so rare, and will not ever tour, that it would be so hard to see in person, save visiting Paris or Venice. But, should a major show make the rounds, like Picasso, or Diego Rivera/Frida Khalo, I’ve made a point to see it, and you are right - seeing a picture of these works does not do them justice! There is something about seeing The One And Only of something, knowing the artist worked on this piece. I’ll paraphrase Mr Ones al a “Music is the best”: “Art - and sports - are a close second!”
March 20, 2022 - 11:51am

#34

daverock

Joined:
September 1, 2014

A new approach

Crmcnkd - I hadn't noticed that section asking us to make recommendations, so thanks for pointing that out. Maybe, though, the only people likely to fill that out are the people who come on here-all the old faces-and we know what they (we, me) will say in advance. I like the idea of reaching people who may not come on here - maybe an email like we get telling us what is coming out- but asking us what we would like to see coming out instead. The key is, it has to be "them" wanting a survey - as much, if not more, than "us" wanting to fill one in.

Oro - thinking of casual fans of different eras, it reminds me of the fact that Deadheads didn't actually exist in the 1960s. I can't imagine early fans travelling around the country to see them. I guess it started with the invite to "Deadfreaks" on "Skull and Roses", but I would think it took several years before the travelling circus developed.

It's interesting watching a documentary on late 60's San Francisco bands called "Go Ride The Music-West Pole". The main bands on this are Jefferson Airplane and Quicksilver Messenger Service - but at one point an interviewer asks people queuing up outside a concert hall, who their favourite bands are. I was expecting them to say "The Dead" automatically-but they don't. They are mentioned but they were clearly perceived at that time as just being another band, along with the two mentioned, Steve Miller, Janis etc.

Mike - one of the great things about going to art galleries is how much more alive the originals are compared to the prints and posters you can see anywhere. I would say that going to an art gallery to look at paintings is a bit like going out to hear live music. If you go to any gallery, look at the originals, and then go in the gift shop and look at a book reproducing the originals you have just seen, the difference between the two is shocking.
March 20, 2022 - 11:23am

#35

icecrmcnkd

Joined:
October 20, 2015

Rehashing past speculation

Don’t forget that several people, including myself, have previously told stories about talking to other deadheads who are completely clueless or disinterested in the official releases.

The RFK Box is 15,000 copies and not sold out, although the banner says “less than 750 left”.
My Boxes are packed away so I can’t check what the production numbers are, but 15,000 seems to be the limit except for a few releases that need an AME.
I think that the last few Boxes were in the 10,000-12,000 range.

Dave’s Picks can sell 25,000 due to people buying more than one subscription and resellers.
And if you subscribe early bird you get 13 or 14 CD’s for $100, which is a pretty good deal.

For those wanting to take a survey, there is a page on this site called ‘Requests - Box Sets’.
I posted on it this morning, so use the ‘recent posts’ button to get to it, or use the search box.
March 20, 2022 - 11:16am

#36

That Mike

Joined:
November 1, 2014

Boxes & Paintings

I am enjoying the discussion, because I’m hoping the marketing folks, or even the interns working at Rhino, see that this is a very passionate group of dedicated fans. Oro, I really think you have made some great points, and it is hard to please everyone (personally I have never been a hardcore 60s Dead fan, because that was before they came along with jewels like Wake of The Flood, Mars Hotel, etc, and all the outstanding concert material those albums brought forth), but so much work goes into the sourcing and mixing of the music in these boxes, and the art work, and the history to the scene happening at the time, that most, if not all, are home runs.
Oro, you definitely hit the mark on many points, as did others, but collectively, as a group of fans, our mantra is “Keep ‘Em Coming!”

DR - I love a wide range of art, and even doodle a bit myself, but Hopper is definitely an artist I have held in the highest esteem, for his amazing use of light and open space to paradoxically create figures of loneliness and solitude. If I can ever get my butt to NYC, the Whitney Museum of American Art is where I plan to sleep; the guy was an American master, and really nice to hear you too see his immense talent.

Last listen - McLaughlin/Corea - Five Peace Band Live
On Deck - Ry Cooder - The UFO Has Landed
March 20, 2022 - 9:47am

#37

1stshow70878

Joined:
September 11, 2014

Great Discussion

I think I fall into the category y'all are citing here. Not quite into it as much as the die-hards but wanting it all anyway. The LTTR box was more money than I was willing to put out at the time so I chose the LIA vinyl instead. A trade off decided by my having already pre-ordered Dave's #1 vinyl and simply wanting to get more vinyl. Interestingly, all the fantastic comments have me alternately regretting my choice and being satisfied with a taste of '72. DR said recently the chunk I have on Light Into Ashes is the crux of the biscuit of the box so today I feel satisfied. My collecting took a hiatus around the time the big Europe '72 trunk came out but kindly folks here are helping me fill that void. Thanks to all for keeping the fire alive. It's so nice to have reliable information from everyone here in our disinformation shrouded world.
Cheers all!
March 20, 2022 - 8:06am

#38

Oroborous

Joined:
June 19, 2007

Great comments

Mike, the 60s vibe, that’s a good example of what I’m saying. To “US”, the hardcore lunatics at deadnet, there appears to be an overwhelming unified consensus demanding a 60s box, but perhaps if you did a survey like DR suggests, our sample might be quite small comparatively? Just talking out me arse, but worth a thought?
You’d think they’d be doing marketing , but maybe not? Maybe they have been so fortunate to have enough of a loyal, reliable, bankable demand that they could just go with whatever they felt was good?

Personally, I think it’s good when things don’t sell out immediately. Gives some folks like P.T. etc a chance to decide or what not if they want to buy it. Or maybe you didn’t hear about it right a way, and as the bastard Murphy would have it, your busted after getting yet another of your kids braces, while the other kid smashed the car, and your washing machine broke. Like “Whaaaa???, you want $300 tomorrow morning, Dooaahh”
But these are singular micro type scenarios and we’re talking macro level.
Maybe DR is right and the nostalgia factor is bigger then I think, in that logistically, because of age, there are more casual fans from the later years than the early ones. Hell statistically, comparatively there weren’t that many causal fans in the early years. Let’s face it, for good or for ill, as time advanced there were way more causal “lets just go party and check it out folks” going to shows.
So maybe that’s part of it, when/if something that this larger population feels more akin to comes round, their more likely to buy it, then yet another older moldy from a time they don’t know or care about because they’ve never been in that deep?
I guess it’s probably a perfect storm of all the things we’ve been discussing? All these factors add up and the amount of units we’re talking about isn’t really that large, so…
But!….that’s all the more reason to deliver more, but smaller batches of certain eras!

Though I understand why a Giants type box would sell so fast, I still, do not understand fully how this box, by now, has not? Shifting market demographics and saturation is my guess though?
Just goes to show…
March 20, 2022 - 7:14am

#39

daverock

Joined:
September 1, 2014

Tip of the hat

ThatMike - my eyes lit up when you mentioned Edward Hopper. I really like his work too. About 20 years ago there was great exhibition on in London, and it was a real treat to be able to go from room to room and get drawn into his world. You can see his influence sometimes in films -"Deep Red" by Dario Argento features a scene that is clearly modelled on "The Nighthawks". And although I can't think of specific examples at the moment, Alfred Hitchcock and David Lynch feature scenes in some of their films that look to me to have been influenced by Hopper's way of seeing things.
March 20, 2022 - 5:01am

#40

PT Barnum

Joined:
December 2, 2009

format? sound quality? putting great shows with good shows?

IMO there seems to be lots of reasons why this has not sold out. I did not buy it and I buy them all. After the so so patch jobs on the PNW box which I did not care for, I passed on this box. These are all good shows, with great shows mixed in. Call me a snob but I want all great shows with no cuts or patches. If that's not possible then I will just keep what I got from the archive or from etree, why spend that kind of scratch for shows I already have that only sound a bit better?
The format could be the reason, some only want from the era they were a part of, mostly 80's from what I gather here. I like the progression of the band from psychedelic juggernaut to what they became, but not everyone's cup of tea.
Perhaps it's the ploy of putting out most requested shows with shows that are not up to the great show that they are centered around? The original great box was a tough act to follow, seeings how the E72 tour was their best tour and it was the first one released with a massive 73 discs. With that great price. How to follow that? It's been what tptb have been asking themselves since.
The spring 90 boxes are a good example of that also, a great tour with consistently great shows released at a great price, which sold out quickly.
But what do I know? just the ramblings of an old deadhead on the first day of Spring.

John Perry Barlow

John Perry Barlow

Forums

Dead Store Products

What's Inside:
7 Previously Unreleased Complete Shows On 20 Discs
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/09/71
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 12/10/71
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/17/72
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/18/72
Fox Theatre, St. Louis, MO 10/19/72
Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/29/73
Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, MO 10/30/73
Sourced from tapes recorded by Rex Jackson, Owsley "Bear" Stanley, and Kidd Candelario
Mastered in HDCD by Jeffrey Norman
Restoration and Speed Correction by Plangent Processes

Individually Numbered, Limited Edition of 13,000

Steamboats and BBQ, ice cream cones and Mardi Gras - are you ready to laissez les bons temps rouler with the "gateway" to the Grateful Dead? Meet us, won't you, in St. Louis for seven complete and previously unreleased Dead concerts that capture the heart of the band's affinity for the River City.

LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73 is a 20CD set featuring five shows from the Fox Theatre - December 9 and 10, 1971; October 17-19, 1972; and two from the Kiel Auditorium - October 29 and 30, 1973.

The seven shows in the collection span slightly less than two years, but they represent some of the best shows the Grateful Dead played during some of its peak tours. The music tells the story of a band evolving, changing from one sound to another seamlessly, precipitated – in large part – by significant personnel changes in the Dead’s lineup.

The two 1971 shows feature the original Grateful Dead lineup plus newcomer Keith Godchaux on piano. This version of the band would hold together for the next six months as the Dead embarked upon its Europe ’72 tour. By the time the Dead returned to the Fox Theatre less than a year later, they were without Pigpen, who’d played his final show with the Dead at the Hollywood Bowl on June 17, 1972. A year after the exceptional Fox 1972 shows, the Dead came back to St. Louis, but played the much larger Kiel Auditorium, touring behind the release of WAKE OF THE FLOOD, which came out just two weeks before.

All told, the band played 60 different songs during these shows highlighted by blazing romps through “Beat It On Down The Line” and “One More Saturday Night” and wistful takes on “Row Jimmy” and “Brokedown Palace” (whose lyrics give the collection its name). Meanwhile, the copious jamming ebbed and flowed like the mighty Mississippi River on multiple voyages through “The Other One” and “Dark Star.” Naturally, the band paid tribute to one of its favorite rock and rollers and one of St. Louis’ biggest stars by playing Chuck Berry songs at every show in the collection, including Pigpen galloping through “Run Rudolph Run.”

Each show has been restored and speed corrected using Plangent Processes with mastering by Jeffrey Norman. The collection comes in a slipcase with artwork by Liane Plant and features an 84-page hardbound book as well as other Dead surprises. To set the stage for the music, the liner notes provide several essays about the shows, including one by Sam Cutler, the band’s tour manager during that era, and another by Grateful Dead scholar Nicholas G. Meriwether, among others.

Due October 1st, LISTEN TO THE RIVER: ST. LOUIS ’71 ’72 ’73, is limited to 13,000 individually numbered copies and available exclusively from Dead.net.

Oroborus/ Halloween shows

I saw the Dead on 10/31/83 at the Marin Vets, no stories really. I had a lot more fun the night before because all my friends were there, my friends didn't get tickets for 10/31 so I was there by my self. I saw Garcia at the Oakland Auditorium on Halloween. I had a ticket to see the Dead on 10/31/84, but I got a bad case of poison oak and didn't feel like going. I wish I could have seen the Dead on 10/31/67 & 10/31/69, and I wish they would release those shows.

Too funny

How situationally influenced our show memories can be!

84 Marin Vets

Did you catch those? Thoughts if you did.
I seem to recall having a few tapes from that run, and word of mouth scuttle about them being positive?

oh no

i just logged back on in along time....i don't even have to go back and read..i already know..

PHISH DESTROYED THE MGM....

....that is all.

PHISH IS DESTROYING....

....the entire West Coast!

Phish tip....

....if you can take 17 minutes out of your day, check out the Axilla II they shredded last night. Wowzers! They are on top of their game. I had great seats stage left on the riser section.
The riser was bouncing! 👌
Met some great people. Plenty of "party favors" being gifted. The first thing I do when I get seated, is get the names of my immediate neighbors. There were three John's and two Amy's last night lol.
Taking tonight off, but have grate seats for Halloween.

Oro & Jim/Phish on West Coast

Oro and Jim, thank you both as well. I plan to stay in shape and keep up with BJJ for as long as I can. I think I am one of the younger commenters on these pages, but at my BJJ academy, I am one of the oldest. There are few guys that have about a year on me, but most people's I train with are in their 20's to early 30's. They are hard to handle, but I can still hold my own, at least for now.

I saw Phish this summer in Hershey. I had great time , but these West Shows look bonkers. What I have heard sounds great. Phish has been on top of their game I think for a while now, really least for the past 4 years or so. I need to do so more listening but it seemed like they turned their game up somewhere around 2015-2016 and just kept improving from then. Now it seems like just about every show is above average if not stellar.

Also, I will say that Dead & Co have upped their game as well. I saw them at Blossom this summer. I felt like that show was OK, but there where some really good shows over summer. Plus some of their recent West Coast shows have been high level as well from I have heard. As I typed this, I watched the free 2nd set opener for tonight - it was a very well played Jack Straw.

Paranoia strikes deep.

Sad. That's all.

And so we came forth, and once again beheld the stars……….

50 years ago today……………

October 31, 1971
Ohio Theater, Columbus, Ohio

Set 1: Bertha-Me & My Uncle-Deal-Playing In The Band-Loser-El Paso-Tennessee Jed-Jack Straw-Big Railroad Blues-Brown Eyed Women-Mexicali Blues-Casey Jones-Cumberland Blues-One More Saturday Night

Set 2: Dark Star>Sugar Magnolia>St. Stephen>Not Fade Away>Goin’ Down The Road Feelin’ Bad>Not Fade Away

Encore: Johnny B. Goode

Deadicated to Jason Stempin…………

Long before the awakening of thought on earth, manifestations of cosmic energy must have been produced which have no parallel today………

The first set, average while fine, gives no hint of the cosmic energy that would be unleashed in the second set. Previously uncirculated, officially released as the only single-disc Dick’s Picks in March 1995, this exploded like a supernova upon first listening way back when. And it has stood up to repeated listening since then. It is indeed very very fine, one of the best official 1971 releases……

To quote DL himself: “I’m absolutely thrilled. I can’t believe that anyone who hears this is not going to go to outer space, intensely, over and over… This show was like getting hit with a brick in the face, I couldn’t believe it. I put it on again and said ‘Man!’ I must have played it ten times before I could talk… This is as good as it’s ever been. I’ve never heard anything like it, and I’m shocked… I have to put myself in a seatbelt. I start shaking, it’s so exciting… This is a thrill a minute.”

Doubt thou the stars are fire, doubt that the sun doth move, doubt truth to be a liar, but never doubt I love……..

Rock on!

Doc
I will love the light for it shows me the way, yet I will endure the darkness because it shows me the stars……

Bright Star!

I played Dicks Picks 2 myself last night....a wonderful disc. Proof positive that the distilled highlights of a show make for a great release. Unique Dark Star - both jazz inflected and melodic, with Jerry shining brightest. Hardly a whisper can be heard from Keith, though. Which probably adds to the tracks uniqueness-they could presumabley hear him, and respond to his playing-but we can't - we can only hear the response.

John Keats birthday today, too. Author of some of the most transcendental poems I have ever read - "Was it a vision or a waking dream/Fled is that music - Do I wake or sleep?"

wow

just reread some of the comments after I made my now infamous comment. Someone said bla, bla, bla which made no sense some said, I, I, me, me, I, I, I lol, some even agreed with me, thank you. Some even misunderstood what I said and some even put words into my mouth. I never said it was a rip off, I never said any thing that I thought was negative, just an opinion about what I thought and my preferences. You know what, I don't have to explain my self to some of you on this site who think you are the dead head of all deadheads, lol, get over your selves. Like I said before, my days of blindly buying dead music is over, I will listen first, try and get some information from non brainwashed deadheads about sound quality and make an INFORMED decision, that is all.
Of course I am down for another year of Dave's, but I too wish I could hear the releases first, (or at least know what they are going to be) then purchase, but then they wouldn't be able to sell any less than stellar shows which as we all know can be included in this set up. I will still blindly purchase these releases for the bonus disc and the early bird pricing. That is what keeps me coming back, early bird is like 4 for the price of 3, plus a bonus disc, a real no brainer. And as was stated by someone, if I don't like one of the releases, I can always sell it on ebay for double what it cost, lol.
Thanks for the heads up about the new Johnny Cash release from Bear, Dennis. I am truly sorry to hear that, I was so looking forward to hearing some Man in Black from the height of hippy days. I do understand that Bear was into a lot of things and recording the Grateful Dead was a passion and perhaps he had a bit of trouble with the set up due to the type of music it was and the way it was played, being used to the Dead and that set up. I don't know, just a theory. Still, would love to hear it.

Daverock/partial show releases

Daverock, once again your intellligent and insightful comments make such a great case for partial releases. Using DP2( 10/31/71), is the perfect example, that is one of my all time favorite releases. There is really great material out there in the form of partial releases from 1968, 1969, & 1970. I listen to those shows on the Archive and sometimes there might be a nasty reel flip that makes releasing the whole show not the best option, but there is tremendous music all around that reel flip would make for a killer release. Aoxomoxoa 50th anniversary release is another example of a partial release, the music from the Avalon Balllroom is really cool. I would always prefer a complete release if it is possible,but you make such a great point using 10/31/71 as an example, why partial releases can be cool.

Dicks Picks 2

10/31/71 - See Doc's review, this one contains one of our favorite Dark Stars. My first listen was followed with a Wow and am immediate relisten.

Didn't I hear the reels for the first set were not in the vault? I thought they did not exist, but they seem to be represented on the archive. I do think we have a case for shows with missing reels to make their way into Dave's Picks under the umbrella of Full Show releases. They sort of blew through this barrier when they released fifth reel of 2/27/77 at the end of Dave's Picks Vol. 29

February 27, 1977 – Robertson Gym, University Of California, Santa Barbara, California:
"Morning Dew" (Bonnie Dobson, Tim Rose) – 13:58
"Sugar Magnolia" (Weir, Hunter) – 9:45
"Johnny B. Goode" (Chuck Berry) – 4:23

Dick's Picks 2 - an instant classic. A great release. Happy Halloween all.. trip or treat?

Unk Sam & Johnny

As I said I'm glad I got the Johnny cd (also the fucking album :-) )

But was shocked at the recording. The recordings of San Quentin and Folsom are FAR superior. Of course they were set up to make a record so the recording should be top notch,,,, right? :-) It was of course a "Columbia Stereo 360" album!

Like most "country" the songs are SHORT! 28 Songs on this cd.

But if you like the man in black, get it. I like supporting the Owsley recordings.

On the Johnny front... I remember when Ice-T was having trouble with Body Count's Cop Killer and people were whining about the violence in rap. He said nobody complained when Johnny Cash sang, "I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die".

Then in Cocaine Blues Johnny sings.....

99 years underneath that ground
I can't forget the day I shot that bad bitch down

Life's funny!

Update on Johnny - ok my 3rd time thru. I'm getting use to the sound, I think maybe it was a mono recording(?) Not as muddy as first blush listen. But the distance between vocals and drums is weird. Like Johnny was standing on left side of stage at the edge and one guy with a drum kit was in the far rear right side. Odd imaging.

Glad I got!

Dicks/partials

I don’t mind some of the partials.
Vol 14 comes to mind.
As long as the songs are sorta in order.
Don’t like when they totally do Boroughs like cut ups.
Ladies and Gentlemen for example. Doesn’t have the same flow.

EDIT: looking forward to taking vol 2 for a ride, it’s been awhile.

10-31-71

I listened to DP2 extensively in the 90’s. Set 2 is smoking and the release sounded so much better than the cassettes I was collecting at the time.

But, I doubt that the quality of Set 2 would be diminished if Set 1 was included in the release. Full shows should be released when possible, and everyone will have the option of putting what CD’s they want into their CD player.

I also don’t believe that Dave and Rhino have a policy that incomplete shows won’t get released. Everything worthwhile will come out eventually. But, once again, Dave and Rhino have 30 years of material to work with and shouldn’t have to cater to a single group that demands that they get all the attention (that includes pre-hiatus, post-hiatus, Donna-in, Donna-out, Brent, heroin-Jerry, etc., etc.).

I am thankful and Grateful that these recordings exist and that they are being polished up and released. Keep them coming Dave and Rhino, from all years so that an accurate representation of the entire career of the Greatest Band In The Universe is available.

OSF Cash

I was going to get the Bear recording but if the sound quality is not there I might rethink it.

Speaking of questionable lyrics,
On 12-20-69 Lovelight Pigpen says something like “so I grabbed my gun and told that cunt to get out”.

1968

Just checked my HD and I have around 30 GB of 1968 in uncompressed AIFF format, around 2/3 - 3/4 of it are Charlie Miller remasters.

Officially released so far
1-20%
1-23%
2-2%
2-14
2-23
2-24
3-17
8-21-68%
8-23,24% 2FTV (which is 3 CD’s if you get the rerelease)
10-20

So, quite a bit has actually been released, including the partials and fragments some people prefer.

And for the rest those Charlie Miller’s are just sitting there waiting. You can only blame yourself if you don’t go get them.

Of course, when more 68 does get released some people are going to complain that it doesn’t sound like a 72.

OSF Cash

I have only listened once. Sounds good to my ears
Caveat emptor
1. One song 'Tall lover man' fades out before end as tape ran out
2. Hawk explains weird mix in booklet about wide separation between channels. They tried remixing to conventional stereo separation but didn't like the sound. Bear, had he been alive, would have suggested pushing speakers together
I don't mind these issues
Tim Buckley OSF release has similar issues with incomplete tapes and is also great

A Mummy, A Ghost, And All Things Dead

I had been on the fence on getting Cash & Carter’s Bear release, but only because the set list is so very similar to much of his two “Prison” masterpieces. Surprised the sound on this release might be below the usual standard for Bear, because the 3 or 4 Bear Foundation release I have certainly have superior sonics (although the mixing of Jerry’s pedal steel is a tad high in the mix on parts of the NRPS release, but that is pepper & fly poop stuff, overall it is fantastic).

What does get five stars in my mind is the River box set release. Yes, a hiccup here and there, but for overall vibe of a great band starting to hit their peak, this was extremely well done. The music, the show selection, theme, artwork, the case itself…absolutely five stars. If it is one thing the Dylan team would do that I would absolutely jump on, is aside from the Bootleg series, is to hire a legacy team with the vision and savvy of Dave Lemieux and Jeffrey Norman et al, and start releasing some of the gems from his Never Ending Tour (which starts up again this week!). I’ve seen this guy bring some AMAZING bands through, guys like GE Smith, Charlie Sexton, Duke Robillard, and Larry Campbell. A Daves Does Dylan series would be amazing!

A Mummy walks into a bar, clearly frazzled. The bartender says “What can I get you, fella?” The Mummy says “Anything to help me unwind”

A Ghost walks into a bar, and sits himself at a barstool. “What’ll it be?” asks the barkeep.
“Any kind of boos you got is fine” replies the ghost.

10 31 71

I heard that on a walkman years ago at Seattle's Discovery Park while visiting Lysergia. That was epic.

I love the music in this box…

I love the music in this box, but with a box the size of an album, why is the book included got font so small you need a magnifying glass to read it? Only disappointment...

Constant whining and complaining

No, not here.

From Roger Waters.
Go to his site and read what he posted on 5-31-21, it’s under the ‘updates’ section.

Glad that the members of GD didn’t act that way, or if they did, at least it wasn’t broadcast to the public.

Daverock, and others, Gretsch

I forgot to mention this when I first saw it, but check out the story of how Randy Bachman’s Gretsch that was stolen in 1976 was located in Japan, and he is going to trade an identical one to get his back.

cnkd - Gretsch

Good story about Randy Bachaman redisovering his original Gretsch. It said online that by 2008 he had got 350 of them !
I don't think I have ever seen or read an interview with Roger Waters that has warmed me to him.

Can you imagine being in the studio or onstage with RW? Yikes.

He has created some mammothly great music, but I wouldn't want to meet him.

that mike and icecrmcnkd

check pms,,,, sent address

Opinions

Put me strongly in the camp of wanting to hear all opinions of Dead releases and shows. I think it is important. We all clearly won't like everything the same, but that is okay.

No book and no goodies in my Listen to the River

My Listen to the River box arrived sans book and sans extra goodies, just CDs and an empty slot. I've been trying to get remedy with the on-line customer service for 2 weeks. I've made essentially no progress, not even sure they understand the problem. And now they've gone silent for the last week. I'm a long time customer of Dead.net. Very disappointing and concerning. In the good old days (not that long ago) I could call someone who would solve my problem quickly and simply. Now I'm stuck in e-mail hell. I have noticed a lot more customer service issues on the site. I hope someone at Dead.net actually cares about their customers. It is not obvious.

Phish busted out 12 new songs last night....

....the final song was acoustic. I Am In Miami. The final verse was, "I watch the Marlins but I love the Dolphins"
Direct. Quote.
They tapped into my sportsdom. Lol.

Love the Listen to the River Box

I am surprised at how different the 12/9/71 and 12/10/72 shows are. How can this great band have such a difference in quality and experience in just 24 short hours? Love them both and continually pleased that the surprises afforded by this great band continue on. I listened to the Dead a bit when I was in high school, actually started listening right around the time Jerry died. Then I lost track of them for the most part for the last 25 or so years. I would listen to them in the summer here or there while grilling. But this past year, I decided to just shuffle all of my GD catalog while staining a wooden swing. Something set the hook in my mind and I have been listening to the Dead pretty much exclusively all year long. I was lucky enough to see Dead and Co. a few weeks ago at Riverbend in Cincinnati and even though I went alone, I had the time of my life. My wife and kids all are familiar with the Dead now and my kids are even picking up the tunes. My son who is 14 listens to Wharf Rat pretty frequently and it is just so great. Thank you, Grateful Dead, America, and God, for this amazing boon of art, expression, and mind-satiating goodness!

Listen To The River St. Louis 71-73

I do not know what is going on with WMG but my last two orders have not gone well at all. Presently a month after release I still have not had my digital download fulfilled. No matter how I reach out I get nothing. it is very hard to understand this. I have been a loyal fan of this band for decades and have spent thousands of dollars on their incredible music. All I want is what I paid for. If anyone can help please please reach out.

Well a day after I posted here I received a reply from WMG. I love this band deeply and want to continue to financially and legally acquire as much of their incredible music as I can but I have had 3 pretty terrible experiences in a row now with WMG and hope that someone in the higher ups will see this and look into the process more carefully. Long live the Grateful Dead !

Jonnie Pre - no download

It's a numbered box set.

STL Digital

There is a digital version of the box.. alac is $139.98 and flac is $174.98. Hang in there man.. sometimes it's not exactly perfect but they seem to pull through.

The digital download is numbered too.. it's all 0's and 1's.

Jonnie Pre / JimInMd

Jonnie Pre: on pg. 2 of Forum Topics is one titled 'Got Issues With Your Store Order'. Marye keeps up with any problems and does a great job.

JimInMd: thanks, I told a friend there was no digital option also. I'm sure they'll be happy to hear otherwise.

UK delivery charges

As people have said earlier in this thread the reason some UK purchasers were hit with a demand for £63.15 was the addition of £17.58 in extra duty that did not need to be paid on cd purchases. UPS have just responded to my emails telling me this and will arrange for a refund which may take a couple of months. So if you haven’t queried the charge then you should. They tell me it is because the supplier identified the item as clothing which does attract 12% duty. I have emailed customer services here to ask them to be more careful with their labelling in future.
As an aside I notice that my DaP #40 has cleared customs in the UK so with a bit of luck I might see it early next week

Netherlands delivery charges.

A similar story here to the UK delivery charges story, but even worse. I kid you not. People here had to pay €116.07 ($134) to UPS. This comprised €13.00 provision, €2.73 VAT on the provision, €47.09 VAT on the goods and €53.25 import duty. VAT here is 21% but we were charged 27.6%. Import duty here varies between 0% and 12% - for books and CDs it is 0% but we were charged 31.2%. How this is possible is not clear to me. Either the UPS person doing the paperwork is totally inept or a blatant thief. Anyway, after some calls to UPS, the matter was sorted and credit notes were sent out. The credit note is for €64.43 and shows that instead of being charged €116.07, we should have been charged €51.64.

I hope in the future that these box sets are sent out using the same Mail Innovations that is used for Dave's Picks. That way the customs declaration is filled out by the sender and taxes, duties etc. are levied by the customs. UPS seem totally incapable of doing this in a correct manner themselves.

Colin - Delivery Charges

Colin -and Simon, good news. Perseverance obviously pays off. You have to stay focussed, though don't you! I phoned them and emailed them about 10 days ago. They assured me they would get back to me, didn't, and I forgot about it again. So thanks for keeping this subject on the agenda. I will phone then again on Monday. I paid the £63 plus.

Another WMG screw up

Declaring CD’s to be clothing on legal customs documentation.

You should all get together and find a lawyer in California (probably not very hard) to file a class action lawsuit against WMG and seek restitution and damages.
Keep in mind that the lawyer will probably take 49% of the settlement.

Declaration of goods

Apparently the US shipper stated that the contents was "Listen to the River CD Box" but by the time I received it the contents on the UPS invoice was declared as "Merch" which could mean literally anything. Just about everything that could be done wrongly was done wrongly.

Goin' Down Down Down Down Down

There is most definitely a download version of the box available. Still.

And I'm surprised downloading is not a more popular option, given how many people report that the first they do on receiving these things is to rip the discs (to a phone or whatever, I guess) and then put the CDs back in the box and file it away in the attics of their lives. I wonder why they don't just get the download, which is cheaper, and which avoids shipping costs and delays?

It's a long lane that go no end, it's a bad wind don't never change.

What?

You don't wear cds?

P.S. Come to think of it, is it the bandana...?

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see…..

50 years ago today…..

November 6, 1971
Harding Theater, San Francisco, California

Set 1: Bertha-Me And My Uncle-Sugaree-Jack Straw-Tennessee Jed-El Paso-Loser-Playing In The Band-Cumberland Blues-Black Peter-Beat It On Down The Line-Deal-Mexicali Blues-Sing Me Back Home-One More Saturday Night

Set 2: Ramble On Rose-Me And Bobby McGee-Cryptical Envelopment>drums>The Other One>Cryptical Envelopment>Comes A Time-Sugar Magnolia-Brown-Eyed Women-Not Fade Away>Goin' Down The Road Feeling Bad>Not Fade Away

A solid, well played show, with a blazing Bertha opener, nice first set versions of Black Peter and Sing Me Back Home (the last SMBH of 1971), a complete Cryptical/Other One/Cryptical suite (which sweetly goes into Comes A Time [an unusual coupling]), and a typically November-nice NFA suite (according to Dick Latvala himself, “One of the most exciting versions.”).

Definitely recommended!!!

And, incidentally, dedicated to Hugo Winterhalter….

Rock on!!

Doc
The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions…..

Get Shown the Light random question

Hello all, I bought 2 Get Shown the Light box sets way back when they were originally released ... I hate the packaging, hate the way the discs slide in and out of those way too big cases ... for a long time I've kept the second box unopened, thinking it might be valuable someday (then they released the all music edition) ... so I've struggled with the 5 5 77 show for years, the second disc simply will not play ... so I opened the second box today, went right to 5 5 77 disc 2, and lo and behold, same exact thing, defective, won't play ... disc 1 plays fine, but the 5 5 77 disc 2 from both copies of the box set I bought will not play ... I can't imagine that I'm the only person with this issue, given my 0 for 2 performance on the same disk from 2 different box sets ... This is beyond frustrating. Has anybody else had issues with 5 5 77 disc 2?

Why CDs?

Crow, I think some folks just like collecting “stuff”. I know it’s not a very trendy thing, but some do and to me it’s the ultimate back up. No matter how well you try and protect and back up, it’s nice to know you have the physical media on the shelf, just in case.
Now Dennis on the other hand… ; )

10 29 1973

Quite the change from the '72 shows. But bluesy seems to be the predominant theme flowing through this release. 'American Night' could have been an alternate title. With that said, at the moment this BT Wind is my favorite verion-- on account of Keith undulating his electric while Jerry piques out some perfectly heart felt licks. Less can be more. Eyes is probably the most intense playing not just of the first set, but the second set as well. Clicks into place just the way any head would want it. Although, that Greatest Story is equally wicked. But the quieter approaches taken with the Truckin' jam and TOO appeal to me as well, with Jerry tucked off to the side. Nice to have that to select from when not up for the teeth chattering drive the jams are known for. Oh, can't leave the Bertha out. Got Phil to thank for that one!!!

Most jokes state a bitter truth…..

50 years ago today…..

November 7, 1971
Harding Theater, San Francisco, California

Set 1: Truckin'-Brown-Eyed Women-Beat It On Down The Line-Hideaway-Sugaree-Jack Straw-Tennessee Jed-Cumberland Blues-El Paso-Big Railroad Blues-Comes A Time-Mexicali Blues-One More Saturday Night

Set 2: Ramble On Rose-Me And Bobby McGee-Loser-Sugar Magnolia-Dark Star>drums>The Other One>Me And My Uncle>The Other One>Deal-Brokedown Palace-Playing In The Band-Casey Jones-Not Fade Away>Goin' Down The Road Feeling Bad>Not Fade Away

Encores: Johnny B. Goode-Uncle John's Band

Deadicated to bolo24, because I will not follow where the path may lead, but I will go where there is no path, and I will leave a trail……

Great and classic show and a long-time personal favorite. It has pretty much everything you could ask of the Dead in this era. Rockers, Cowboy songs, hot jams, the unusual coupling of Dark Star and The Other One, an unbelievably smoking NFA transition jam (maybe the best ever?), plus even the often-expected equipment difficulties, AND jokes from the audience! The circulating broadcast copies are excellent quality and highly recommended. The band sounds loose, and the crowd sounds juiced. OK yes there’s no Pigpen, but still highly highly recommended, a classic of the first rank!!

Rock on!!

Doc
It is requisite for the relaxation of the mind that we make use, from time to time, of playful deeds and jokes

Harding Theater

This radio broadcast from 1971 was one my friend and I listened to a lot. His older brother had recorded it off the radio. We had a few all-nighters cranking this in a friend's SF apartment while parents were away. Fond memories.

My friend actually attended one of the shows, lucky dog. Harding was a very small room with a balcony, which has seen hard times. If you google it, there are pictures, because there was an effort in SF to name it a historic building. Not sure if it still exists.

Listen to the River

This box it just keeps growing on me. The 1973 stuff is really really good. I just listened to one of the best Wharf Rats I can recall from pre-hiatus times. Jerrybcomes through loud and clear, which in my mind is key to a good Wharf Rat (i.e. the mesmerizing repeating guitar chords). He also plays one of the best outro solos since the Pigpen Statue of Liberty Dave's Picks (Bonus Disc version), 1972.

The Dark Star from 10/30 has quickly climbed the ladder in my mental list of all time favorite Dark Stars.

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