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    WHAT'S INCLUDED:

    • Lyceum Theatre, London, England (5/23/72)
    • Lyceum Theatre, London, England (5/24/72)
    • Lyceum Theatre, London, England (5/25/72)
    • Lyceum Theatre, London, England (5/26/72)
    • Sourced from recordings by Betty Cantor, Janet Furman, Bob Matthews, Rosie & Wizard
    • Mastered by GRAMMY® Award-winning engineer David Glasser
    • Restoration and Speed Correction by Plangent Processes


    "What fans heard in these four {Lyceum} shows was both a history of the Dead and a survey of their unique vision of American music, from folk to rock, with blues and R&B and country-and-western and Bakersfield all included, all melded together by the improvisational spirit of American jazz in a small-group format that owed much to European classical music.

    The repertoire made a statement: this is who we are. And while that honored their roots and surveyed their history and evolution, the overwhelming focus was on the present. At the Lyceum, showgoers heard a tapestry of music that knit together the disparate strands of the ’60s psychedelic baroque of AOXOMOXOA and LIVE/DEAD with the Americana turn epitomized by WORKINGMAN’S DEAD and AMERICAN BEAUTY, which in many ways both continued and culminated in Skull and Roses. English fans were especially delighted to hear the new songs — for fans accustomed to bands using concerts to promote their records, that kind of generosity was striking. Those songs showed a band that was consolidating and deepening its distinctive approach to American vernacular music while still expanding the range of what that could include. Pigpen’s two originals added a distinctive flourish, but the new tunes also made it clear that Weir had emerged in his own right as a singer and songwriter, as well as showing that the wellsprings that fed Garcia and Hunter’s music were drawing on ever deeper aquifers." - Nicholas Meriwether

    Imagine, if you will, being amongst the first to witness the merry band of misfits that had taken over the good ol' U.S. of A. conquer foreign lands. When the Grateful Dead first unleashed their magic on the cautiously optimistic patrons of Wembley on 4/7/72 and 4/8/72, it was with the idea they would have just these two nights to impress a traditionally reserved London crowd. It turned out to be a smashing success, and they set about locking in four dates at one of London’s most storied venues, the Lyceum Theatre, to wrap up what some consider one of the greatest tours in rock history.

    On these four nights, we find the band hell-bent on telling 'em "how it's gonna be," and boy, did they ever. Powered by what Jerry called "peak optimism," they delivered a steady dose of "primal Dead," - sometimes searing, sometimes soulful, sometimes serious, but always unwavering in focus. This willful determination moved them through transitive takes on "Dark Star," to majestic heights with "The Other One," through marathon runs of "Playing," another minute, another mile. It found Phil, philosophizing on how to "put our music into a place," Bob and Jerry masterfully dueling as two of the top songwriters of their time, Bill elegantly ferrying songs to new lengths, and new members Keith and Donna Jean Godchaux adding organic warmth. And Pigpen? Well, he dotted his beloved classics - "Good Lovin'," "Mr. Charlie," "Lovelight," "Two Souls In Communion" - through set after set, conjuring up more clarity and charisma than anyone would have expected for his final few shows.

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  • #31
    ArthurDent
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    At least they are not "Upscaled"

    My infinitely small amount of knowledge of sound manipulation means I cannot really look at a plot of a song's spectrum and the the tale of where its been and how it got to be in this shape.

    Since it appears that they were 24 bit to start with, that is a significant advantage over 16 bit.

    So that is a significant point in their favor, they are not CD files that were ripped and then converted to 24/96.

    The upsample tag is a bit more complicated. In reading online (That makes one an expert) indicate that there are various ways to do that and some DACs do that in order to improve the sound. They can just add "zero" samples to increase frequency or interpolate to guess what data should be there.

    The 32K line might be a high pass filter, basically, if there is no "audible" info in that range, kill it.

    A CD rip hard lines at 22K

    Here is a my Dave's picks with dB power amp rip to FLAC using the HDCD plug in for 24 bit, and it shows "upscaled"

    And as a test, the HD-Tracks download of "Horses" in 24/96 shows it is "clean"

    Lossless Audio Checker 2.0.7 logfile from Sunday 21 August 2022 07:50:01 AM

    File: \Grateful Dead\Dave's Picks, Vol. 43 Dallas, 12-26-69\01 Grateful Dead - Casey Jones (Dallas, 12-26-69).flac
    Result: Upscaled

    File: HD_Tracks\Patti Smith\Horses (Remastered)\01-Gloria (Remastered).flac
    Result: Clean

    Sooooooo

    Whiles the files are not what would be expected as a direct FLAC conversion of 24/96 material, they are in true (AFAICT) 24 bit sourced

    While the sampling rate shows "upsampled", they are most likely not 44.1 kHz originals, but may have been filtered and processed.

  • #32
    dtuck90
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    Upsampled?

    I don’t quite understand how these can be upsamples if there is a hard cut off at 32k. If they were upsampled from the CDs there would be a hard cut off at 22k.

    For there to be information up to 32k the only 2 file resolutions could be 24/88 or 24/96 (I highly doubt these were mastered at 16/96 and then padded to 24 bit). I’m guessing at some point along the chain there has been a conversion from 24/88 to 24/96.

    Nowadays Plangent transfer at 32/384 so I’m sure back in 2011they would have been transferring at 24/96 at least.

    Basically if these files have info going up to 32k then you are not being ripped off if they are in a 24/96 container.

    If someone could chime in without saying “this is a sham!” That would be useful.

  • #33
    Randall RIES
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    Arthur Dent For The Win

    Upsampled. That's all we need to know. We spoke of this earlier. Needless and frankly pointless bloat. Empty calories. So, we are left with the question: "WHY?"

    I think they just put the widely and long available 4 16 bit digital shows together in a package and sold fans an upsampled bill of goods. I really think they wanted funding to produce the MSG box.

    Do they need "funding"? That has to be a revenue machine.

    What I mean is why spend THEIR money when they can throw some shows in a box they have already released and make people think they are getting something new? Spend tens or even hundreds of thousands for something the neophytes think is "new". Take that cash and pay their engineers and production costs.

    Soon as I saw the ad and saw the word "remastered" I thought "This is a gyp." "Remastered" really means nothing. And NOwhere did they give any fresh lineage or production steps. "Remastered" is an ambiguous term, IMO. "Remixed" or "Remixed and Remastered" would have been awesome and I would have bought it myself.

    You may agree with me that the surviving band members kinda sold their souls and along with that, the faith of the fans when they leased the vault. They never step in and try to right any of the many wrongs that have occurred over the years and we have seen them involved in some pretty heavy cash grabs.

    You would think that if they cared all that much, this shit wouldn't happen at this late date. They pay someone to do their caring for them so they don't have to think about it.

    But - you know. I have an "attitude" so I may be incorrect. But it's the fans slavish attitude that bothers me because they end up getting burnt a lot due to their endless faith and positivity and that isn't something they are prepared to deal with. The idea their counter-culture heroes are actually very much establishment and businessmen.

    This outfit doesn't normally go back and re-release something. Sure, they digitize the back catalog and many of the releases have been legit. I don't remember when they have ever gone back and re-released a digital item or a package of items. Not like this one.

    I am forced through empirical evidence to declare this a fraud and a fiasco at least AFAIC. My Trust-O-Meter just fell into the red with Rhino. I was wary when I 1st saw this release and now I will be doubly aware in the future. I will certainly avoid any future releases of any shows pertaining to E72. When I see the correct lineage claims and the bomb bursting back slapping ("Master tapes! New Remixes! Also Sprach Zarathustra!"), then I'll get on board the gravy train.

  • #34
    batzye
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    Comparison of CDs to Downloads

    I listened to the CDs and compared to the 24/96 downloads on high quality headphones. Admittedly my hearing is somewhat degraded from years of loud music but I hear absolutely no difference. Only difference is where the tracks are cut - some are longer/shorter but otherwise no difference that I can hear.

  • #35
    icecrmcnkd
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    Thanks Arthur, Randall, Rbert, etc

    I noticed a significant improvement in sound quality of my CD’s just by upgrading my stereo system from Onkyo to Cambridge Audio.

    I’ve also read articles that say most people can’t tell the difference between 16 and 24 bit.
    The only 24/96 download I have ever bought was when OSF released the unedited ABB files that were used for the Bear’s Sonic Journals CD (I bought the CD too).

    I did buy Led Zep Song Remains The Same on Blu-ray audio which I think is 24/196. Sounded pretty good the first couple times I listened to it, but then my Onkyo Blu-ray player decided that it could no longer recognize the disc. It’s been a while since I tried to play the disc. I need to try again, maybe the player will now recognize it again (the error message is similar to when a PAL DVD is put into an NTSC player).

  • #36
    ArthurDent
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    And Now For Something Completely Expected

    Lossless Audio Checker 2.0.7 logfile from Saturday 20 August 2022 05:59:59 PM

    File: Q:\24-96\5-25-1972\01_Promised_Land_Live_at_the_Lyceum_Theatre_London_England_5_25_72_2022_Remaster_2022_Remaster.flac
    Result: Upsampled

  • #37
    ArthurDent
    Joined:
    To add to the previous info,…

    To add to the previous info, I downloaded "speck" audio analyzer and looked at what the files look like

    They have a hard line at about 32K with no info above that. There is empty space to 48k (-120 dB). Comparatively, a remastered track from Patti Smith "Horses" uses the full 0-48K space.

    The 5/23 Dark Star has a much more spread/varying spectrum while still hard lines at 32K

    too bad I cannot post pics

    The -60 dB info seems to max out around 5k on the GD, and 10k on horses.

    So, it is possible the files were not 96 kHz to begin with although they now are in that container.

    With out looking at something up sampled, I cannot judge how they expanded the files.

  • #38
    RBert
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    Randall, there is a large…

    Randall, there is a large meta-analysis (published in 2016) of listening tests involving hi-res digital audio, with about 12,000 listeners; although differences may be small, there is a significant minority of listeners who consistently identify hi-res digital (compared to 16/44.1).

    If you have or can find Ozone 8 or 9, the "match EQ" will clearly show the differences in EQ between the new files and the older, previously available ones.

    Now, whether all that makes a difference to you, only you can tell.

  • #39
    ArthurDent
    Joined:
    The files are now encoded…

    The files are now encoded FLAC at 24/96

    While they may be upsampled from 16 bit, they do say "remastered"

    I do not have any of the previously released CD's to compared to or the digital copy of the "steamer trunk" to compare to.

    I must say the dark star of 5/23/72 was very nice, there seems like lots of dynamics and clarity between instruments. It is not as "dense" as a rock n' roll style track, so the spaciousness of the sound may merely be how it was recorded rather than any remastering of a previous release.

    I have not listened to it from from high quality DAC convertor and head phones yet. Typically on that I can better tell how well something had been recorded and encoded.

    Obviously - having a credible response from the vendor on the chain which these produced from would be useful.

  • #40
    Randall RIES
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    Sounds the same

    I did an A/B/C with one of the 16 bit shows a friend sent me. Pointless effort because both the available 16 bit downloads - available since forever - and the CD's are the same files. And comparing this 16 bit release to the former 2? Sounds the same to me. Because - you know - "remastered" isn't "remixed". It didn't even sound equalized at all. There is still the same bits of over-saturation in some spots as well.

    24 bit isn't going to be some miracle sound design. 24 bit doesn't make things sound any better. The initial mixing and then mastering DOES. From the SOURCE TAPES.

    The value in real 24/96 is simply having the best archival copy. That whole "I CAN hear a difference" thing has been put to bed long ago. No. We CAN'T hear the difference in any meaningful way beyond wishful thinking. You would have to be a dog or a bat.

    Wanna do it right, Rhino? Take the master tapes and make a .dsf master copy of all the shows and EQ along the way. Then, release in true 24/192 (overkill) and 24/06. Ahhhh. That would hit the spot.

    This package is a fraud and a fiasco.

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WHAT'S INCLUDED:

  • Lyceum Theatre, London, England (5/23/72)
  • Lyceum Theatre, London, England (5/24/72)
  • Lyceum Theatre, London, England (5/25/72)
  • Lyceum Theatre, London, England (5/26/72)
  • Sourced from recordings by Betty Cantor, Janet Furman, Bob Matthews, Rosie & Wizard
  • Mastered by GRAMMY® Award-winning engineer David Glasser
  • Restoration and Speed Correction by Plangent Processes


"What fans heard in these four {Lyceum} shows was both a history of the Dead and a survey of their unique vision of American music, from folk to rock, with blues and R&B and country-and-western and Bakersfield all included, all melded together by the improvisational spirit of American jazz in a small-group format that owed much to European classical music.

The repertoire made a statement: this is who we are. And while that honored their roots and surveyed their history and evolution, the overwhelming focus was on the present. At the Lyceum, showgoers heard a tapestry of music that knit together the disparate strands of the ’60s psychedelic baroque of AOXOMOXOA and LIVE/DEAD with the Americana turn epitomized by WORKINGMAN’S DEAD and AMERICAN BEAUTY, which in many ways both continued and culminated in Skull and Roses. English fans were especially delighted to hear the new songs — for fans accustomed to bands using concerts to promote their records, that kind of generosity was striking. Those songs showed a band that was consolidating and deepening its distinctive approach to American vernacular music while still expanding the range of what that could include. Pigpen’s two originals added a distinctive flourish, but the new tunes also made it clear that Weir had emerged in his own right as a singer and songwriter, as well as showing that the wellsprings that fed Garcia and Hunter’s music were drawing on ever deeper aquifers." - Nicholas Meriwether

Imagine, if you will, being amongst the first to witness the merry band of misfits that had taken over the good ol' U.S. of A. conquer foreign lands. When the Grateful Dead first unleashed their magic on the cautiously optimistic patrons of Wembley on 4/7/72 and 4/8/72, it was with the idea they would have just these two nights to impress a traditionally reserved London crowd. It turned out to be a smashing success, and they set about locking in four dates at one of London’s most storied venues, the Lyceum Theatre, to wrap up what some consider one of the greatest tours in rock history.

On these four nights, we find the band hell-bent on telling 'em "how it's gonna be," and boy, did they ever. Powered by what Jerry called "peak optimism," they delivered a steady dose of "primal Dead," - sometimes searing, sometimes soulful, sometimes serious, but always unwavering in focus. This willful determination moved them through transitive takes on "Dark Star," to majestic heights with "The Other One," through marathon runs of "Playing," another minute, another mile. It found Phil, philosophizing on how to "put our music into a place," Bob and Jerry masterfully dueling as two of the top songwriters of their time, Bill elegantly ferrying songs to new lengths, and new members Keith and Donna Jean Godchaux adding organic warmth. And Pigpen? Well, he dotted his beloved classics - "Good Lovin'," "Mr. Charlie," "Lovelight," "Two Souls In Communion" - through set after set, conjuring up more clarity and charisma than anyone would have expected for his final few shows.

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Submitted by cjstone on Thu, 04/07/2022 - 08:01

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Maybe I'm missing it, but what's the difference in resolution between the ALAC and the FLAC? Thanks!

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Submitted by lfgrant2000 on Thu, 04/07/2022 - 08:56

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Here's to hoping that the digital download is in the form of 4 discrete downloads instead of one big data dump!

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Submitted by John64 on Thu, 04/07/2022 - 12:27

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Both are lossless digital music formats. This means that neither file format compresses the music to make it smaller, thus giving it better and wider sound. FLAC is an open-source code, ALAC is the proprietary Apple version of FLAC. Since both have the same source, there won't be any difference in sound quality. However, I prefer FLAC because it is used on a far wider range of music players, not just those with itunes, and anyway, it is easily convertible to ALAC .

The bigger question is regarding the source file. A Flac file at 24 bit/192 khz will sound better than on that is at 16 bit/44 khz (CD quality). Many of the digital boxes in the past have been 24/192 so hope this one is too. But surprised it doesn't say.

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Submitted by DancingSea on Thu, 04/07/2022 - 13:23

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What is the bit rate of the downloads? Is it 24/192?

Thanks

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Submitted by 1fmgsr on Thu, 04/07/2022 - 14:14

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Weren’t these dates included in the Europe 72 Steamer Box ?

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Submitted by MadDoc on Thu, 04/07/2022 - 14:45

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I have the steamer trunk but if these downloads are 24/192 I'll pick them up. That being said, I'm not pulling the trigger until the bit rate has been confirmed. The fact that the specifics aren't in the description makes me suspicious.

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Submitted by cjstone on Fri, 04/08/2022 - 07:52

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Yep, thanks...well aware of the differences in lossless audio file formats -- my question was about these releases and their bit rates. Given that the FLAC costs more, I'm going to say it's hi-res. How high is the question, I guess...

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Submitted by icecrmcnkd on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 09:14

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STL Box is 24/192
Giants Box is 24/96

Based on the price difference of those, I’m guessing that Lyceum 72 will be 24/96.

In the seaside chat for the vinyl Dave says that they used the same Norman mix as used for the Steamer Trunk. But that that mix was remastered by Glasser.
So, if you already have the Steamer Trunk or the AME, no point in the download unless it sounds significantly better. I have the AME, so I’ll wait for the reviews of the downloads, confirmation that you get the correct and complete download (not usually the case based on comments on other download boards), and confirmation of what the FLAC files are.

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Submitted by jaydoublu on Tue, 04/12/2022 - 03:45

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Hoping this is not the semi-annual Box Set release, for 2022

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Submitted by scubash21 on Thu, 04/14/2022 - 16:13

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Whats the difference with this release that differs with these same shows that are included in the " Europe '72: The Complete Recordings " that was released back in 2011 ? "steamer trunk case " I spent quite a lot for this back then, and I think that they are 24-bit HDCD. Will there be previously unreleased " Extras " ?

The 2011 release was mastered by Glasser and Plangent was used. Not sure what is new this go around?
And none of the CD releases are 24 bit. 24 bit CDs only exist in SACD and DVD Audio format.
The HDCD releases are 20 bit and you only get that extra 4 if you have a HDCD player.

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Submitted by Ziffle on Mon, 04/25/2022 - 20:51

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Deadvikes makes a good point, 2011 was mastered with Plangent Processes. The main obvious difference then is that this version will play back full fidelity without HDCD decoding (rare now, other than software emulations, which are imperfect). And of course, perhaps this remaster is superior, we won't know until release. The download version is a fair price, certainly worthwhile for anyone who does not have an HDCD player. If this remaster has no (or minimal) compression, I will consider it.

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Submitted by fourwindsblow on Tue, 05/03/2022 - 04:09

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Looks like these are the original 2011 mixes by Jeffery transfer by Plangent Processes, and I would say with the size of this project at this time frame the transfers were done @24/96 then were remastered by Glasser in 2022 for the vinyl and digital release.

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Submitted by JeremyP on Mon, 05/23/2022 - 11:38

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Resolution? 24-192? 24-96? Would be good to know. Caught the first and last shows, impoverished student, coping with the Dead turning up during his Oxford finals term. Thanks, guys :-)

192 would be great...

Thanks

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Submitted by JeremyP on Mon, 05/23/2022 - 11:40

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DbPowerAmp has an HDCD DSP which will do it digitally. See this from the recent Dave's Picks, converted this way

Artist The Grateful Dead
Title 06 Playing in the Band
Album 42 - 1974-02-22 [Winterland Arena, San Francisco, CA] %
Track 06
Disc
Genre Grateful Dead
Year 1974
Rating
Composer
Size 119.58 MB (63% Compressed)
Original Size 318.58 MB
Length 21 minutes 2 seconds
Channels 2 (stereo)
Sample Rate 44.1 kHz;
Sample Size 24 bit
Bit Rate 2,116 kbps (DVD)
Encoder FLAC reference libFLAC 1.3.3 20190804
Encoder Settings
Audio Quality Perfect (Lossless)
Contains Album Art, CRC, ID Tag [Vorbis Comments]
Channel Mapping
File 06 Playing in the Band
Type FLAC Audio File (VLC) [.flac]

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Submitted by RevAvery on Sat, 06/04/2022 - 13:08

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I've never purchased an ALAC download from here. Once this is released, will it come to me somehow? Or, how do I get it. And once I get it how do I use it? I have a Mac with iTunes. In other words, I just want to make sure if I order this I'll be able to figure out what I need to do.

Thanks, Warren

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Submitted by RevAvery on Sat, 06/04/2022 - 13:13

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Second question of the day :-)

I have already pre-ordered all the new-to-be-released Lyceum shows on iTunes. However, the pre-order option for all the shows isn't showing any longer for pre-order. The remastered Europe 72 pre-order is though. I talked with iTunes and they said it might be due to updates relating to the product. My pre-order still is active and valid in my account so I'm assuming all is OK. Anyone have any knowledge or thoughts? Has anyone else purchased the pre-order on iTunes?

Thanks again, Warren

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Submitted by stillwaters on Thu, 06/16/2022 - 11:16

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This is why I don't purchase downloads on Dead.net.

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Submitted by LDFoster on Sat, 07/23/2022 - 22:35

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I have audio players & headphones that will properly play hi-res audio, both 24-96 and 24-192. I have never ordered a digital download from dead.net so need to know what resolution the digital Lyceum shows will be delivered in. I am not inclined to fork over almost $100 if these shows are not higher fidelity than CD res. Others have asked but I have seen no answer from dead.net so far. Today is July 24 and the release is to be very soon.

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Submitted by djbinder on Tue, 07/26/2022 - 15:08

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Someone has already posted the technical diffs between FLAC and ALAC. When it comes to buying digital downloads from desktop.net, however, here's the practical diff!

ALAC is lossless compression of CD quality. So if you want CD quality downloads of the box for less than the physical box, this is the one for you That's why it is cheaper than FLAC;

FLAC is lossless compression of high resolution files. Usually either 24/96 or 24/192. I wish they would tell us which when they announce the items for sale, but honestly, you get a bigger bang going from CD quality's 16 bit to 24. Yes, 192KHz is technically better, sonically, than 96, but many ears can't hear the diff, whereas (at least IMHO), the upgrade to 24 bit is much more noticeable.

So that's the difference, and why FLAC is more expensive. I typically buy FLAC, but convert to AIFF as I am on a Mac and have all my music in Apple's music app (used to be called iTunes), and iTunes won't play FLAC. When I import them into my music library I automatically convert them to ALAC, to conserve space, but keep the AIFF files on a different hard drive that is RAID 1, plus is backed up. I've learned, the hard way, the importance of proper backups so I tend to go a little overboard as my iTunes/Music library is also backed up.

Aa for dead.net's delivery? Other than some occasional technical problems delivering the downloads, I've been very happy with my digital download purchases from dead.net, as they're usually cheaper than in third party download stores. And they always resolve any technical issues.

Fingers crossed that they are delivered, this Friday, without any technical glitches. They always fix them, as I said, but it can sometimes take a few days, and given I preorder these types of downloads on the day they are announced, in this case some months ago, I really do want to hear the music on release date. I've also preordered the MSG box as FLAC, so here's hoping for a glitch-free delivery with that as well, later this year!

Cheers!

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Submitted by icecrmcnkd on Tue, 07/26/2022 - 16:21

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You buy 24-bit FLAC, then convert to 16-bit AIFF?

Totally agree with the backups and the RAID.
I have 5 RAID enclosures from OWC (three thunderbolt 2 dual drives, a thunderbolt 3 quad drive, and a thunderbolt 3 dual that I’m going to use to build a new iTunes library from scratch).
I use RAID 1 on all of them so that if something goes wrong with the enclosure I can just pull out the HD’s and a complete copy will be on each one.

I got an email this morning with the downloads but THEY DON'T WORK! Invalid download URL scheme WTF!!!!!

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Submitted by dtuck90 on Fri, 07/29/2022 - 09:13

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I'm also getting the same error with the download. Same old dead.net download nonsense

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Submitted by BobODude on Fri, 07/29/2022 - 12:06

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I received the Email this morning, but get the same error!

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Submitted by uglyroomer on Fri, 07/29/2022 - 12:17

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I've always seemed to have this problem, I pre-order. This time the purchase was made today. Same error. Frustrating. Last time it took a week to clear up to get my downloads. I've listened to the remaster or E'72 on iTunes this morning and it was epic.

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Submitted by Duece on Fri, 07/29/2022 - 16:38

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Yup same thing here, get the URL error. Did not even get an email had to sign in and view order status to get to the downloads. You would think that after the first dozen times that would have had this thing figured out by now and have a solution so this would not continue to occur.

Also still no ship notice on new DAP or Europe 72 anniversary CDs.

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Submitted by Tim Newhaven on Sat, 07/30/2022 - 07:34

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Why do they even bother with release dates if this is how it goes down. Oh, for the days when we could just call 800-CAL-DEAD, and actually speak to a person to fix our problem (usually nothing more than a broken CD case back then).

Q: How many Deadheads does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: 100: 1 to screw in the lightbulb, and 99 old dudes to tell you how much brighter and clearer it was back when Owsley made the lightbulbs.

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Submitted by muck on Sat, 07/30/2022 - 08:03

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I wonder if the downloads work for anyone. Pretty annoying though the payments processing works flawlessly at least!

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Submitted by JoeyMC on Sat, 07/30/2022 - 08:17

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Has anyone got there downloads yet? I was going to buy this.

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Submitted by baxlap on Sat, 07/30/2022 - 20:06

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Implicit in charging more for the FLAC files is that those files will be 24-bit. But the Europe '72 FLAC files that I got this evening were only CD quality.

Having the same "Invalid download URL scheme" problem trying to download the Lyceum concerts.

Lousy customer service gang. Get it right the first time, just once, please!

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Submitted by DFBWM on Sun, 07/31/2022 - 07:26

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I have the entire Europe '72 tour from the massive 2011 release. I would consider (re)buying these shows, however, if they are 24 Bit and preferably at 192 kHz. Please post when those questions are answered -- and, of course, when the files actually become available. After having substantial problems with Giant's Stadium and St. Louis downloads, I will not pre-purchase downloads anymore or even buy them on the release date. It's simply too much of a pain to keep following up with customer service to finally get what I paid for.

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Submitted by Randall RIES on Sun, 07/31/2022 - 08:17

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I'm not even sure what the point of re-releasing these shows is. There has been no remix AFAIK. That would mean going back to the multi-track tapes and rendering TRUE 24/192 > then on to 24/96. Along the way, adjustments to the sound quality would be made. These are still the original Norman mix, aren't they? Chances are excellent the recordings here are just 16/44.1 blown up to 24- whatever KHZ they felt like using. I could have done that at any point since 2011. To what end? Padding? That doesn't present with any added quality or music bits. Just additional zeroes and ones.

If they show up as 24/44.1, you should have saved your money. If they show up in any format you should have saved your money. "Remastered" doesn't mean "Remixed". Look:

Sourced from recordings by Betty Cantor, Janet Furman, Bob Matthews, Rosie & Wizard
Mastered by GRAMMY® Award-winning engineer David Glasser
Restoration and Speed Correction by Plangent Processes

That's the original process used in 2011. That applies to this release. Nothing has been done to enhance the sound field nor does it remotely suggest a remix has been done. Don't believe it? Check the specs at the bottom of the box set's Discogs entry:

I would spring for this set all day long if I thought they had remixed the shows from the master analog tapes and not simply "remastered" them. Of COURSE they are "remastered". Someone jiggered the bit/depth rate from the masters they used to create the 2011 box set. I bought that box in 2011. BTW - speaking of shipping - mine ended up in Africa and not the Northeast US where I live. Then, weeks later, was delivered to me in a rain storm.

I bought all these shows as digital from 7digitalcom when they were released as well. Don't know why as they are the same thing as if I ripped my own cd's.

Maybe think this stuff over and allow for the possibility the organization will play you like any corporate entity will if given a chance. If these aren't actual remixes from the master multi-track tapes, then fans are being played for suckers. Worse, being treated with contempt for never bothering to sub these things out to a platform who actually sells digital downloads and know what they are doing. The Red Rocks box is the ONLY successful download I have ever experienced from Deadnet. ALL the others were a botch like this one is. I actually felt fear when I downloaded from Deadnet every time and the fear was 99% justified.

I don't feel fear anymore. Just will not order downloads. I will feel fear in September when the Madison Sq Garden box is released. Where will that end up? On the International Space Station as some sort of bizarre joke? Will it be released on time?

Mayre I ordered the Box set $625.. I ordered the downloads FLAC $100.00 I subscribed to Dave's picks $99 I am in it for a large sum and today the 31st of July I have ZERO to show for it. If the downloads worked I would have been happy waiting for the rest but they did not and I am not very pleased. Ignoring peoples emails with download trouble is Unacceptably rude. Leaves a bad taste.

I ordered the Box set $625.. I ordered the downloads FLAC $100.00 I subscribed to Dave's picks $99 I am in it for a large sum and today the 31st of July I have ZERO to show for it. If the downloads worked I would have been happy waiting for the rest but they did not and I am not very pleased. Ignoring peoples emails with download trouble is Unacceptably rude. Leaves a bad taste.

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Submitted by MadDoc on Sun, 07/31/2022 - 09:42

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In the past, I've downloaded digital box sets that were supposed to be 24 bit, but we're 16 bit cd quality files. After a few rounds with customer support, the 24/192 files were finally made available.
On another digital box set, all the files were high def except one. Again, after being persistent with customer support I finally got the correct file set. What I can't understand is why can't they get this right? Apparently nobody tests the download process which really boggles the mind. I'll still buy the digital releases but I'm never pre-ordering again. I'll just wait for the dust to settle before handing them a dime.

Agree, Randall these are helpful comments. Because they failed to note it in the description, I have been holding off on the Flac files for the London 72 shows. For what it is worth, I purchased Europe '72 Remastered from HDTracks in 24-192. It was $33, but they were having a 25% off deal - so about the same price as dead.net. Seems like if they have Europe 72 in 24-192, they would have the whole package. Anyway - waiting to hear before I buy the London set. Perhaps dead.net should outsource their digital downloads to HDTracks.

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Submitted by Randall RIES on Sun, 07/31/2022 - 15:56

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Just saying there is a lot of info missing here and most likely on purpose. The lack of lineage info plus retreading the process used to master into 16 bit for CD's is the clue. It's double speak.

The Red Rocks shows were 24/192 because they were taken directly from the master tapes and offered as both hi-def and CD options. Why the E72 shows weren't done that way is a mystery to me, the latter being FAR more significant than the former. And even then, the 07/07/1978 show must hve had a fair amount of jiggering only because I always understood that to be a mono show and a stereo version never existed.

If they WERE brand new remixes, that fact would have been screamed from the highest mountain top. That would be big big news. Remixing and remastering the E72 shows. "We went back to the "vault" and using the original, multi-track PCM tapes, have created a new and substantially better presentation." There would have been all sorts of forum talk and excitement. Rolling Stone magazine and their ilk articles and so forth. The GD organization is nothing if not self congratulatory while feebly attempting to relate to the fans. I haven't heard a peep about that.

We must remember too that HDT, Prostudio and Nugs et al are simply vendors. They have nothing to do with creating the files or their quality. They are at the mercy of the clients who PASS them the files to be sold. I highly doubt the new Europe '72 release is actual remixes from the master PCM tapes. Which is what it would take to be called a "remix" and not a "remaster".

I guess for myself at least, I don't see the value in this set. Not saying others don't or shouldn't. But in the audiophile world, blowing up a CD rip from 16 bit to 24 bit is forbidden and fraudulent. The only way we as collectors will see this set in true 24/96 is if the organization redoes the shows from the master tapes in the "vault" OR someone rips the vinyl into analog/PCM and then masters as 24/96 or 24/192.

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