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  • proudfoot
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    Mixes

    One thing about audience recordings...not a lot of mix issues.

    Like 10 6 80.

    High energy with no political commentary filler.

  • narutlee
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    Mixes

    With all these talks of sound mixes. 2 tracks and so on. Wonder if it's financially feasible for GD to employ the "AI" technology that was used on The Beatles "Get Back" movie and the upcoming "Revolver" remix. As I understand it, a technology was used to separate out different parts of the sound so they can be mix separately, which no one could do before because of the "tracks" limitation. For example, if brent, bobby, and phil were all recorded on one track - the original mix (how loud each instrument was in the mix) is it, it's all we got. If the keyboard is drowning out everything else, there's no way to fix it no matter how many times anyone remaster it, because that's the master! But I believe this new technology can separate each instrument out to its own track, and then they can be remix and give us a more balanced sound.

    I guess it's depend on how much more we're willing to pay to employ this tech!

  • Oroborous
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    In other words

    There is nothing anyone can do about changing the levels of individual instruments on these recordings.
    What Mickey or whomever was doing was helping with remastering, which is something completely different.

    And really, I’ve heard and read Bobbie clearly stating that “we’ve all been asleep too long” and even more straight up political call to get involved before it’s too late. Yes nobody likes this, but that’s how fucked up it’s getting.
    I mean how desperate do things have to get before it’s ok to mention uncomfortable stuff?
    So just keep burying your head in the sand and soon we won’t be allowed to talk like this at all!
    The futures here, we are it, we are on our own!

  • Oroborous
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    Strangestofplaces

    and others.
    For the eighteenth time: these are not professionally recorded multi track recordings!!
    They were NEVER intended to be released!
    They are 2 channel (stereo) tapes that were produced by Dan Healy as a tool to help him with his work.
    That work was to make the band sound good live in concert, not your living room!
    Consequently, sometimes the mix might not make sense in your living room. I,e., if the stage instruments are really loud, the mixer won’t need to boost as much through the PA. Thus, those instruments might not seem loud enough on the tape, or in your living room. Furthermore, the first song is always unbalanced, sometimes it takes a good chunk of the first set, as the mix is dependent on how loud or quiet the signal sent by the musician is: if Jerry hasn’t turned up yet, then he won’t seem loud enough. During the first song the mixer is mostly trying to get the vocals going, and bringing the overall levels up, so he’s not going to worry about messing with JGs level too much knowing that JG will turn himself up when he wants to. When you mix the same band all the time, you don’t turn all the knobs back to zero after each show, you leave things generally where they are (or will you know they’ll need to be) and then fine tune the next night as needed. Basically, he sets levels approximately where they’ll end up and let’s the band grow into them if you will.
    With Beatty boards etc, there was a dedicated person, who was able to create a mix specifically for making a recording, unfortunately later on the tapes were not made like this so sometimes they have more noticeable anomalies.
    Since this is baked into the 2 track only tape, THERE IS NO WAY TO FIX IT!
    It is what it is, caveat emptor as these releases used to clearly warn!

    Now it it was a multitrack tape (meaning most instruments have their own channel on the tape which can be individually modified later on, and something was disproportionately low in the release mix, THEN you’d have a point, but since it’s only a 2 channel tape made as an afterthought, not intended for release, you have to take it or leave it.

    OFF TOPIC: really DR, your going to criticize about that? The guy who usually talks about anything BUT GD?
    I mean no offense but if some of us have to hear about Hawkwind again we’re gonna puke!

  • Angry Jack Straw
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    Political Comments

    Please keep them off the board. Despite what was said earlier, the GD was not a political band. Very much to the contrary. Encouraging people to vote is not being political.

    Let's keep our comments to the poor sound/mix quality of the MSG box.

    Thank you.

  • 1stshow70878
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    The Mix

    When the Dick's Picks were coming out, likely still the ones Dick picked, I remember hearing that Mickey was helping the crew with the remastering-mixing. It made sense because I've always thought they were a bit drum heavy. It is still that way but not to the degree that's as noticeable. Plus I've changed equipment now so maybe that's all it was to begin with.
    Did my civic duty yesterday. Colorado has been vote by mail for years now thank goodness. But I don't get the cool sticker that says I voted.
    Cheers, let's go out and make it a good one.

  • PT Barnum
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    happened to me

    just got censored by MSN and Microsoft for agreeing with, shall we say, patriots, who stated the truth about what is going down. It's already happening and let's hope they stay away from this site.

  • PT Barnum
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    Strange...

    I concur with your statement ie Jerry. I wonder if Jer was alive, if these remasters would sound different? I think the remaining members might be an influence. For sure, I don't have any knowledge of that being said anywhere, just wondering?

  • Oroborous
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    Desperate Times…

    …call for desperate measures.
    Make sure you vote or we soon might not be allowed to, and what we do here might not be allowed either…

  • Strang3stofplaces
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    Jerry low in the mix

    From the listening party Stranger, it sounds like Jerry is kind of buried in the mix, and absolutely not the first time I've heard that on a remastered release. Take the slipknot from 10/12/83 off the recent box, for example. Not sure if I'm the only one who feels like this, but isn't a lead guitar supposed to "lead"? Obviously I understand the whole ethos of the Dead's music, that they were going for a more united sound, but it seems kind of detractive for Bob's "rhythm" notes to be overshadowing Jerry's lines. I understand that Norman mixes the remaster democratically, but again, what's a lead guitar for if not for the spotlight? I read once that Norman doesn't raise Jerry's levels on any remaster because "he was already loud enough", but if you're normalizing the levels across the board, he just gets lost in the fray. Another thing I wanna point out is that Jerry wasn't the leader of the grateful dead, he always made a point of shying away from that, but let's be honest, who was the one people deified when he was alive and more so after he passed? Shouldn't that be somewhat reflected in the remastering? I just feel that Jerry's leads should be overpowering and yet, I've got the volume turned up as much as I can without sacrificing fidelity just to hear what he was playing, and even then, I've gotta really focus on him for that. Anyway, rant over, just thought I'd share my two cents. Not even sure if this is the right place to do so, despite it being the forum for Dave's 44, as the subject matter tends to talk about nearly anything but the release itself. The grateful dead were always a political band, to be sure, but it'd be great if these forums could try to focus on the music, reddit does exist after all.

    Thanks and I'm really not trying to be a d**k with the ending there

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....the best thing about driving solo, is that a can listen to whatever the hell I want to without anyone bitching.
Started with some more Oingo Boingo. Good sing along songs imo, then the Dolphins/Texans game. Go 🐬's. Then Dave's 44. Then. Then the second set of Phish @ Amsterdam 7.2.97. Whoo boy. Lucky I didn't get pulled over listening to that. Badass set. Four songs. Thirty minute classic Stash followed by Llama then the Wormtown Jam, which is a one off mashed up Steve Miller's Swingtown with Anastasio's acid trip the night before where he rode on the backs of worms 🪱 in the canals of Amsterdam after going into a portalet, then Wading In The Velvet Sea.
I think I blew out my driver's door speaker.
Apologies if that's not your jam, but like I said, it's nice to drive solo.
Edit. Seems the dogs need food. Perfect excuse for the Free, David Bowie encore y'all!
Happy belated birthday Jimi and Simonrob. Rock on my brothers.

10 30 early show oh well late start apparently
10 30 late show worth a listen
10 31 early great setlist and energetic enough
10 31 late will need to listen at another time

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VGUY, I can so relate to driving alone while listening to anything I damn well please. I could make my 8 1/2 hour drive to New Hampshire a breeze. Going all the way back to the cassette era, 4 concerts would usually get me there, but occasionally I would just play 8-12 regular albums, be it on cassette or CD.
I still mostly listen to albums start to finish. On occasion I will break that custom, but it’s unusual for me. I think that’s yet more proof of my dinosaur status. Still, I don’t care about that. Great music can make a long drive feel like a very short drive. The right 3 Phish (or Dead) shows can get you 9 hours!!
Just before crashing, I decided I needed a nightcap. The problem was, will it be the Fillmore Bonus Disc, or the Beyond Description Bonus Disc?? Can’t really lose either way.
I went with the Fillmore disc, and boy howdy, I hadn’t listened to that 30 minute Caution in years. Just exploratory in all the best ways.
For sure I will play the Beyond Description disc tomorrow. Can’t wait to crank up the 32 minute Blues Fir Allah suite. Not to mention a WRS, Estimated, and a Shakedown. Man, I feel totally blessed right now, even though my 4-day weekend is officially over.
Best wishes to all whether you’re going through ups, downs or in betweens.
As I type, the ginger cat in my Icon is furiously head butting my chin to get some attention.
He (Petey) will also enjoy this big slab of Pig.

Sorry for rambling folks, but you know……
Music is the Best!!

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In reply to by simonrob

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They showed this documentary on T.V. at the weekend - the film that was included in the Jimi box set a few years ago-which I still haven't got round to getting. Curious film - incredible picture and sound, though very frustrating in that it was more talking than music. I guess I should buy the box for the good stuff.

I thought those hippies were a right shower, though. I can vaguely remember people like Chuck Wein in the early - mid 70's. Slightly older people who had dropped out, and who sought to enlighten those around them with gems of spiritual insight. There was a guy in Oldham like that -had the most beautiful girlfriend who very rarely spoke. I can remember telling her once that I had been to see Genesis, and that they had put on good show. She stared at me for what seemed like ages, and then whispered "We are tired of shows." I felt like a right schmuck. It was as though she had stared into the heart and soul of the universe, and could no longer tolerate artifice of any kind.

Yes - Happy Birthday Simon. Don't set your guitar on fire!

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In reply to by proudfoot

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....their new single. Six years? For that? I went in open minded and listened to it three times. I am very disappointed. Dave Mustaine was right.
Guess they will stay in fifth place.

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....don't throw away the peels. Chop them up and let them soak in cold water for a couple of hours or so. There are vitamins in the peels. Pour the water onto your plants. It will help Let Them Grow. Greatly yield.
I learned that on the internet.

The first time I heard the transtion from acoustic to full-bore electric...a special moment. Walking on as path on a sunny day with headphones...a very special moment.

Seattle Times reports Metallica will play two Seattle shows in August/September 2024.

2024.

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Checking the experience vinyl site to see what they now say about "from the vault" series. 1 has been pushed back to spring 2023,,,, the other 2 "fall" this year. Right.

I see them hawking so glad you made it, why would anyone pre order it? They're over a year on "from the vault" initial release date!

Further i saw them hawking a pre order of Dicks 33 (275 bucks!!!), 8 LP's. I checked my shelf and sure enough there's 33 already?!?! Don't remember paying 275? But it's number.

Anyone seen anything of 3/2/69 fillmore to finish that set of vinyl?

Had the 50th anniversary of Thick as a Brick show up minutes ago. Remastered release comes with the original newspaper in it's entirety. My original copy from back in the day does not! I look forward to reading it :-)

Enjoy

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The doc recently exhibited some fine sleuthing regarding identifying a date of a 1970 show. I'm surprised there has not been any discussion of the call by the Owsley Stanley Foundation to help identify a date of a June 1968 show discussed in the current almanac under the heading "Friends & Relations". Here's an excerpt:

"The Owsley Stanley Foundation found some never circulated ’68 dead featuring the earliest versions of “St. Stephen” and the first versions of “Dark Star” to crack the 10-minute mark. They’re not in the world just yet, but keep watching the skies!"

In the full story there's a l i n k. Once there, there's a call to help figure out the date of the show. Curious to hears Doc's & others thoughts on this.

Apologies if this was discussed here or elsewhere & I missed the discussion.

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Hey rockers!!

In reference to the restored Carousel 1968 recording, in this case---as in all others---I don't have an special insights or inside information. The write-up at the OSF Facebook page really says it all, in great depth. It seems like it's early June. In any case, it looks awesome!! And hopefully will be officially released some time soon!

I thought for a moment that the recently (November 1, 2022) circulated remaster of the June 8/9 show(s) might be the show mentioned by OSF, but the setlists are vastly different. What currently circulates for June 8/9 is: Excerpt #1: //St. Stephen [tape speed variable at the start] > That's It For The Other One > Turn On Your Lovelight//; Excerpt #2: //Morning Dew//-//Hurts Me Too//-Dark Star-St. Stephen >Turn On Your Lovelight//. This June 8/9 remaster is really excellent sound quality. Thanks very much to the folks that made that possible. Anybody who needs/wants, you know where to find me.

Based on what OSF has released so far---all of which are excellent---it appears they have an emphasis on non-Dead releases. Which means maybe they will leave the Dead stuff to the Dead organization itself. My guess is, that being the case, don't expect a flood of releases, probably more like a trickle........

Time moves in one direction, memory in another...........

Rock on,

Doc
Time and memory are true artists; they remould reality nearer to the heart's desire.....

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I have been away awhile. Seems like the usual suspects here. I haven't just been away from the site but away from the Dead. I finally listened to Dave's 41, 42, and 43, on a long drive which is what inspired me to mention it here. As someone who only in the last few years began to understand the Dead, I have to say, going from May 1977 to Feb 1974 to Nov/Dec 1969, it is like literally listening to three different bands, four if you include the acoustic music. All great performances. I sometimes hear people comment that they don't need any more 1977. I only have a couple of 77 shows so this one sounds great to me. The 1969 material is my pick of the bunch. I would give just about anything to go back in time and see Pigpen in his prime. And on first listen I thought the Feb 22, 1974 show was not nearly as good as what I will call its "counterpart" Feb 24, 1974, Dave's 13.

Now I just need to get caught up on a few months of posts. Everyone take it easy.

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Dennis, if you're not familiar with small local British newspapers from that time I'm not sure you'll get the joke..

....is an incredible movie. I feel honored Butch. What can I say? I love the cinema.
Just finished watching Avatar. Prepping for part two, thirteen years later.
Yall know, The Tull put out a record last year I hope.

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Hey now! It's likely been mentioned in these comments, but please consider donating to Archive.org and the Rex Foundation on this Giving Tuesday.

Be kind, rewind . . .

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In reply to by Butch

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Butch-going beyond May, 11/6/77 - Daves 25, is worth squeezing in. Great versions of Dire Wolf and Music Never Stopped. Having said that - I'm listening to it now, and they seem to be having a bit of a nap after singing the verses of Scarlet Begonias.
Not sure about those two skeletons leaning against a tree to advertise 30 Days of the Dead. I suppose that's the brand - and it's better than teddy bears - but..... why have a brand at all ? Surely The Dead were originally opposed to all that kind of thing.

I never got the joke when I first saw it, I must admit. I never owned up to this when it was first pointed out to me of course. "Aqualung" was the one I liked most by Jethro Tull - spitting out pieces of his broken luck. Some of it's barely quotable in todays world. It was along way from Buddy Holly, that's for sure.

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In reply to by proudfoot

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I leave in a bit to do a quick turnaround run to Zion National Park in an hour or so...I was asked by some folks yesterday if I could drop them off and I said $ure...so on the way back home (5 hours) I can test my new car audio system!!!! I love that my new deck plays Hi Res files on a flash drive...I have numerous drives filled so away we go!!! Friday I head to Vegas for the Pac 12 Championship, USC (Fight On) vs Utah at Allegiant Stadium...game's at 5:00 PM so I'll drive home afterwards (4 hours) ...thought about staying overnite but room co$t$ were ridiculous...$400 for Motel 6? I think not!!!

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In reply to by nappyrags

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Motel 6, not so much.

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At the Fillmore 1997 looks good.
4 CD deluxe set seems very affordable.
Anyone got this yet?
Cheers

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In reply to by JimInMD

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where else can you pay 50 cents for a key to turn the tv on!

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I think it was Nitecat that asked for any info about 31 Days of Dead 2022. In any case, I just got an email from Ed Martin, and looks like he's gonna do it again this year:

Hello my friends!!! It's that time of the year again. I’m very excited to bring you another installment of the 31 Days of Dead. Most of you know the drill, but for those who don't here is some background...

Similar to what dead.net does in November, I pick a live track (or tracks) for download each day in December and do a quick write-up. Unlike the “Official 30 Days of Dead,” there is no contest here. Instead, the prize is the music and the winner is the listener.

I started these annual projects in 2010. I had no idea where this would go, nor did I care. I did it for no reason other than my own personal enjoyment - I still do. To my surprise, what started as daily email blasts to a small group of friends has grown to an Instagram account that has over 35k followers. I am grateful to every single one of you for the love you have shown. Follow me on Instagram at @31daysofdead

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These 2 shows from 1977 for the next Daves Pick from Portland Oregon look fantastic!

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In reply to by Dennis

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Just so happens that's the title of my first ever horror novel, "Jim & Motel 666." I just sent it off to the publisher last night.

This place is amazing, everybody is so incredibly plugged in to everything important going on in the universe. This shit seems to happen on a daily basis.

Thanks folks!

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I heard his Live Anthology set from 10 years ago, and the band is outstanding live. This Fillmore set looks like a bunch of covers. I think some of them may be the same renditions as Live Anthology. Personally I think this band is so good live they could sing the ABCs and it would sound good. Go to YouTube and check out Gloria. That makes me want to go by this set. There's a rap in there I would swear is a tribute to Pigpen.

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My posts seem to be turning into obituary notices but I have to say
RIP Christine McVie

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In reply to by Colin Gould

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Wow. I was never a big Fleetwood Mac fan, but I always liked her and felt she was very underrated. Think of me what you will, but I love Songbird.

Yes. Please donate to the archive. Before year end if possible as all donations are being matched.

You also have an option to pay in cryptocurrency for those of you who still may own that stuff. I decided to pay with actual money.

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Not Christine Perfect. Dang.
My favorite in FMac.
Not just Songbird, Morning Rain, Show Me a Smile, Homeward Bound, Spare Me a Little of Your Love, The Way I Feel, Why, Don't Stop (thinking about tomorrow), You Make Loving Fun, Oh Daddy, and backing vocals on Kiln House. Oh, and anything she wrote after Rumours, which is the last one I own. A great talent. She lived a simple life after her touring years. Raise a toast to Christine.
Cheers

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Christine passes and Petty's estate puts out a must-have box. (Four-CD box pre-ordered without hesitation.)

And all I was gonna post is that -- having mentioned my trajectory -- HF lives another day. Home from the hospital after cardiac ablation. Knocked me on the arse, it did. Had to stay overnight and was glad I wasn't home alone last night. Next 90 days will tell if it worked. Like all such surgeries, if I knew how rough it would be, I mighta thought twice. It's all right -- back home and picking on the Martin D-35 to distract from the aching in my chest, said to be expected.

Both Christine and Petty went too soon, especially the latter, at 66, from fatal toying with fentanyl. I got a story about my own flirting with that stuff, but perhaps too gory for the forum.

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To HF!
Keep on truckin'.
Cheers

Jeezum crow. Firstly, my best wishes that this episode gets in the rear view fast. As someone post 70 with a host of situations, have some sense of unexpected and unwanted hospital visits... basically they suck. I kid myself with what Daltrey sang 57 some years ago, "... before I get old". And then shite happens as it does and will for all of us and it turns into, gee, if I knew I was going to live this long, I would have... We make it this far, we have all lost dear friends and family. So, dug out the old photos, concerts apprehended in the early 70s, my first Dead, BB King, Tom Waits, Dylan with The Band, John McLaughlin, Roy Buchanan, ELP, even a fourteen year old Tanya Tucker (for your ticker) right after she hit with Delta Dawn. Perhaps best of all, photos from Watkins Glen, there's this guy near the stage just left of center, who looks like you, only a little younger. Jeezum crow.

....I wanna say around 1991.
It was a really good show. Mick had a drum jacket on.
Godspeed Christie. I always thought you had a better voice than Stevie.
Pray for John. I know he's devastated.
I went through most of their catalog in 2020.
I'm listening to Mirage. Turns out they have songs called Eyes Of The World and Wish You Were Here on the deluxe version. How about that!
Google Jerry Garcia Christine McVie.
Or check out my avatar.
😉

HF - good luck. Hopefully you will be up and rocking again in the New Year.

I never really heard Fleetwood Mac, apart from their singles. In fact I don't think I have ever heard one of their albums. But best wishes to all connected, however distantly, and I hope Christine McVie rests in peace.

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Check her out pre-Fleetwood Mac, she was with Chicken Shack, an excellent R&B band.

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I had a look at the Tom Petty box set. So far, I’ve resisted temptation but probably not for long. Unfortunately, while looking at it I noticed an 8 CD box set ‘Bert Jansch at the BBC’ and a 6 CD box by Plainsong and a book ‘In Search of Plainsong’ and I couldn’t resist them even though I have several versions of the Plainsong albums I just need the extras.

Joining a few strands together Andy Roberts, the guitarist in Plainsong, was earlier in The Liverpool Scene and they had a track called ‘ I’ve got the Fleetwood Mac, Chicken Shack, John Mayall can’t fail blues’. I loved Chicken Shack and The Liverpool Scene.

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In reply to by Cousins Of The…

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I haven't heard much by them either, but from what I have heard, I think they would be more my cup of tea than the Fleetwood Mac of the 70s. Stan Webb on guitar has a great reputation.

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in Denver. Follow up:
Rky. Mtn. Public Radio has hired a new GM that goes way back in the scene and started KHIH jazz radio BITD. So hopefully with some of the staff kept on in key positions we can get back to reality and not Kenny G (no offence Kenny, I love hearing you in elevators). The GM is also the first black woman to GM a radio station in Colorado. At least we are going in the right direction.
Cheers

I had to read up on what you had done. Not fun, not one bit of fun.

Heal up man.. hopefully it's one of those things that needed to get done so you can resume your 'normal' life of fear and loathing in CO.

On the bright side, your radio options just improved.

May the four winds cover your deductible.

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And I use that term loosely (where's Oro when I need him to take a swipe at me??). Feeling WAY better today, so I thank all you kind hearted souls for support. I'm tempted to think it was the anaesthesia that threw me, I was "on the slab" for 2 1/2 freakin' hours -- thankfully not the good ForensicDoc slab...

So, the sun's out, I'm in a chair with guitar and I got nothin' to bitch about. And to all facing challenges -- the known knowns and the unknown knowns -- my complete empathy.

DMCVT: at Watkins Glen I was wearing a bright red shirt with tiny white polka dots. Shoulder-length blond hair, but cannot remember if I had it in a 'tail' or not. I still have two pics of the boys from the Saturday show as they played PitB (used to have four shots) that showed them moving together into a tight circle as they jammed it out. That summer '73 material would be really fun to hear after all these years. I've had some sub-par copies that I can't get into. I think pristine sound quality would be wonderful.

Okay, I'm silently 'yelling' MORE '68!! The doc told me to stay quiet for a few.... good luck with that!

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Get well soon, HendrixFreak!

R.I.P., Christine. You were a class act and a great musician and songwriter.

Anyone watching the World Cup? I'm addicted to it . . .

Be kind, rewind . . .

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Get well soon HF - sending you healing vibes

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In reply to by frankparry

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Call me color blind. Alas, HF, my Watkins Glen photos were taken with b&w film. Faster, better for low light. Will review with rose colored glasses. Love the sound of those old Martins. Will go see neighbor and 84 year old veteran musicologist Jim Rooney play his in a couple weeks, if it don't snow too hard.

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Vibes much appreciated, trust me.

Hey, I ordered the new Petty 4-CD box Monday, it just landed. It is a model of minimal packaging while still being a fun package. I know that Dave & Co. love to work up each year's box and I have no complaints, I have argued that the effort on the packaging lends dignity to the music release. But environmentally I wonder whether a new more minimalist approach would be welcomed on GD boxes.

Just a thought... Hitting the couch now. Many thanks for the support.

DMCVT: look for a gray-ish shirt with tiny white dots! Gawd, that was an experience, especially at my age back then.

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