Grateful Dead

dead.net the official site

I think I fall into the category y'all are citing here. Not quite into it as much as the die-hards but wanting it all anyway. The LTTR box was more money than I was willing to put out at the time so I chose the LIA vinyl instead. A trade off decided by my having already pre-ordered Dave's #1 vinyl and simply wanting to get more vinyl. Interestingly, all the fantastic comments have me alternately regretting my choice and being satisfied with a taste of '72. DR said recently the chunk I have on Light Into Ashes is the crux of the biscuit of the box so today I feel satisfied. My collecting took a hiatus around the time the big Europe '72 trunk came out but kindly folks here are helping me fill that void. Thanks to all for keeping the fire alive. It's so nice to have reliable information from everyone here in our disinformation shrouded world.
Cheers all!

I am enjoying the discussion, because I’m hoping the marketing folks, or even the interns working at Rhino, see that this is a very passionate group of dedicated fans. Oro, I really think you have made some great points, and it is hard to please everyone (personally I have never been a hardcore 60s Dead fan, because that was before they came along with jewels like Wake of The Flood, Mars Hotel, etc, and all the outstanding concert material those albums brought forth), but so much work goes into the sourcing and mixing of the music in these boxes, and the art work, and the history to the scene happening at the time, that most, if not all, are home runs.
Oro, you definitely hit the mark on many points, as did others, but collectively, as a group of fans, our mantra is “Keep ‘Em Coming!”

DR - I love a wide range of art, and even doodle a bit myself, but Hopper is definitely an artist I have held in the highest esteem, for his amazing use of light and open space to paradoxically create figures of loneliness and solitude. If I can ever get my butt to NYC, the Whitney Museum of American Art is where I plan to sleep; the guy was an American master, and really nice to hear you too see his immense talent.

Last listen - McLaughlin/Corea - Five Peace Band Live
On Deck - Ry Cooder - The UFO Has Landed

Don’t forget that several people, including myself, have previously told stories about talking to other deadheads who are completely clueless or disinterested in the official releases.

The RFK Box is 15,000 copies and not sold out, although the banner says “less than 750 left”.
My Boxes are packed away so I can’t check what the production numbers are, but 15,000 seems to be the limit except for a few releases that need an AME.
I think that the last few Boxes were in the 10,000-12,000 range.

Dave’s Picks can sell 25,000 due to people buying more than one subscription and resellers.
And if you subscribe early bird you get 13 or 14 CD’s for $100, which is a pretty good deal.

For those wanting to take a survey, there is a page on this site called ‘Requests - Box Sets’.
I posted on it this morning, so use the ‘recent posts’ button to get to it, or use the search box.

Crmcnkd - I hadn't noticed that section asking us to make recommendations, so thanks for pointing that out. Maybe, though, the only people likely to fill that out are the people who come on here-all the old faces-and we know what they (we, me) will say in advance. I like the idea of reaching people who may not come on here - maybe an email like we get telling us what is coming out- but asking us what we would like to see coming out instead. The key is, it has to be "them" wanting a survey - as much, if not more, than "us" wanting to fill one in.

Oro - thinking of casual fans of different eras, it reminds me of the fact that Deadheads didn't actually exist in the 1960s. I can't imagine early fans travelling around the country to see them. I guess it started with the invite to "Deadfreaks" on "Skull and Roses", but I would think it took several years before the travelling circus developed.

It's interesting watching a documentary on late 60's San Francisco bands called "Go Ride The Music-West Pole". The main bands on this are Jefferson Airplane and Quicksilver Messenger Service - but at one point an interviewer asks people queuing up outside a concert hall, who their favourite bands are. I was expecting them to say "The Dead" automatically-but they don't. They are mentioned but they were clearly perceived at that time as just being another band, along with the two mentioned, Steve Miller, Janis etc.

Mike - one of the great things about going to art galleries is how much more alive the originals are compared to the prints and posters you can see anywhere. I would say that going to an art gallery to look at paintings is a bit like going out to hear live music. If you go to any gallery, look at the originals, and then go in the gift shop and look at a book reproducing the originals you have just seen, the difference between the two is shocking.

DaveRock - Awesome idea with the email to all the folks on the mailing list. Something that perhaps itemizes what is in the vaults (no use clamouring for reels that don’t exist), and survey to see what is in high demand. I know on the Neil Young site, as an example, he has a “Letters” column where he states he answers ALL the letters himself (I’ve sent a few, and always get a reply), and the bulk of requests are folks asking him to release this show, or this tour, etc, and he tells you if the request is even doable. I don’t expect the Core Four to answer Dead Head mail, but a quick email survey is interesting. Maybe it is as easy as Ice Cream Kid says, and we just hit up the request thread, but it doesn’t tell us what tapes are in the vault, and what condition, etc.

PS - Dave, you are right about seeing the art “in person”, but of course, work of say a DaVinci is so limited, so rare, and will not ever tour, that it would be so hard to see in person, save visiting Paris or Venice. But, should a major show make the rounds, like Picasso, or Diego Rivera/Frida Khalo, I’ve made a point to see it, and you are right - seeing a picture of these works does not do them justice! There is something about seeing The One And Only of something, knowing the artist worked on this piece. I’ll paraphrase Mr Ones al a “Music is the best”: “Art - and sports - are a close second!”

per usual!
Thanks, lol, never knew that request page existed. Goes to show, just gotta poke around!
Those will get utilized more now for sure…Smithers, release the hounds!

Yeah that RFK was probably too many units for what it was? Good example of doing say one of these a year at lower unit count along with a more traditional box release at perhaps less units?
But I liked RFK, (hell I think they’ve done a great job with most) because that stretch from summer through the next summer is prime time for moi, and it sounds great, but they certainly weren’t the best available, once again the ole he went to a great city and street, but picked the wrong house? ? Wasn’t it relatively pricey too?
But as we’ve all been saying, there’s a whole lot of causal heads out there who might not buy anything UNLESS it was something they were at. Perhaps explains the Giants phenomenon some what?
That was sorta my M.O. back around turn of the century: “I have more than I need so I’m only going to get shows I was at. That worked out sorta ok at first by sheer dumb luck, but I eventually realized
A) I’m not going to get many of those any time soon, if at all, and
B) I’m missing out on some killer shit!
The E72 Dark Stars are what really brought me back. Didn’t get the trunk but picked up several of the Dark Star shows Ala cart.
So started dabbling again, but mostly just wanted the music and not more stuff. Luckily or not, my cousin used to get a lot of the releases free through their business connections with GDP etc, but when that all changed with Rhino etc, they lost those relationships. So I was able for a while to get copies of stuff he had that I wanted.
But then I started getting back into it, hanging with you junkies etc lol, and next thing you know I’m a “collector”, just the thing I was trying to avoid lol.
So of course the down side of only getting copies is all the great collection stuff I missed out on!
The biggest regrets were the FW box and Winterland 73. The FW I just wasn’t very in dead land at the time and because of the repetitive set lists figured “oh hell, I have live dead already” idiot!
Luckily I have the mini version and you know who here tightened me up with copies of the box, so at least I have the music!
The Winterland 73, being fall 73, which even then was one of the tours I had huge interest in, I contemplated getting it, and man, wasn’t it really cheap considering, but I cheap skated out and have been regretting it ever since!
Some of the others I regret only as a “collector” now, though I should have grabbed that summer 78, wasn’t that another bargain box?

So yeah Daverock, the scene was relatively small until later. When I started going in late seventies there were tour heads, but not anything like what would come. I think the whole multi show run factor contributed to this. It was now much easier to just plan on a three show run or two, especially day on weekends, then to catch 5 or 6 shows, one stop at a time up and down I 90 etc.
Now I know old timers talk of how it changed throughout the seventies, especially that huge influx of kids like me in the mid and late seventies, but I don’t think it was near as dramatic as what we saw from late seventies up too 87 when it exploded, perhaps leveled off a bit, but continued at a steady pace that unfortunately just got too big to support it properly. Fame, the kiss of death…

ART: not a active art participant, but sometimes you get shown the light!
We had a great Albright Knox gallery back in the tundra, and on family vaca to Europe in late seventies, went to tge Louvre etc. Don’t recall a lot of specifics, Mono Lisa etc? But it definitely impacted my thick adolescent Beavis and Butthead dumb American skull. That whole trip would of been much more awesome if I’d only been older.
That Hopper work is cool. I’ve seen that corner diner one but wouldn’t say I was familiar. Will have to burn a fat one and check him out. Yasss great light etc. And yes, I can only imagine how much more sharp and vivid his work would be live!
Good sheet Mon,
Party on Wayne!

One of the most stunning experiences I had going to an art gallery was when I went to see "Sunflowers" by Van Gogh a few years ago. I eventually found the room it was in, and noticed a huddle of people in front of a painting on the far side of the room. One of them moved..and there it was. It had a spotlight on it so that the yellow of the flowers shone out into the room. Amazing...but as I got closer, I realised that it didn't have a light on it at all - the light was actually coming out from within the painting. Truly extraordinary.
It's also quite an experience going to see his work in the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam. I just wandered in there by chance about 30 years ago. Wow.

DaveRock - Great story on seeing Van Gogh’s “(Vase With Fifteen) Sunflowers”, which I believe was his number 2 hit on the Billboard Art charts behind his “The Starry Night”! It is remarkable to see such masterpieces, ones you have seen in popular culture all your life. Aside from the artists I had previously mentioned, one that touched me was seeing Rembrandt’s remarkable “Self Portrait” at the Met in New York, as close as reading a subway schedule.

On a more micro level, the Dead have been surrounded by some truly terrific artists such as Rick Griffin and Alton Kelly/Stanley Mouse - there are some terrific books out there with incredible reproductions of their posters and album covers.
The art in the DaP’s series, and the numerous box sets, has been nothing short of outstanding. (Recently, I purchased poster art from Dave Kloc, the brilliant artist who did the covers for DaP 33-36 inclusive. He is a nice guy, with some amazing posters).

Mike - yes, I have got a few books featuring psychedelic posters too. The only Dead related I have is called "Mouse and Kelly" and I think I got that in the 1980s sometime. There must be a lot of superior collections available now.

There have also been exhibitions in England featuring `1960s posters - though they have mainly on British artists. Martin Sharp ( who was actually an Australian, but worked in London) comes to mind. He is most well known for the eye popping covers of Cream's Disraeli Gears and Wheels of Fire albums.
I'd forgotten about these books - I'll go upstairs and see what I've got hidden away later!

I forgot how good those Cream album covers were!! Another renowned English company that produced some absolutely stunning art work was Hipgnosis; if all they did was Peter Gabriel albums, they would be famous, but Pink Floyd, Brand X (Moroccan Roll a personal favourite), Zep, Sir Paul, etc. They used photography and photo manipulation to great effect. Another reason I’ll never be a download guy, to the chagrin of my adult kids: the album cover art & ephemera are part of the anticipation of hearing the music!!

Exceptional.

Mike - yes, the covers of albums used to fascinate me - especially in my mid teens. A whole other world. Going into a record shop was like going into a treasure trove - all these with mysterious artefacts with exotic covers and strange titles. I always wondered what an album by Dr Marigold's Prescription sounded like - and never did find out. Apparently it wasn't as out there as it looked.

I still have that sense of anticipation going into a record shop - although I haven't done it since 2020. Cd covers are small change, really. I got one yesterday - "30 Seconds Over Winterland" - by Jefferson Airplane -remastered and paired with "Long John Silver". This is the one with the flying toasters on the cover, credited to the "GD quippies by way of Garcia, Parrish, JA and Steinberg". A great L.P. cover - but on this cd, the cover is spoiled by having little squares of the two album covers placed in the way on the main cover. Sacrilege!

Good sound on this live album, incidentally. Much better than the other cd issues I have bought - although it's a shame they couldn't have re-released the whole show. That came out a few years ago as "Last Flight" on Charley. An underrated album - the opening " Have You Seen The Saucers" and " Feel So Good" in particular are great.

Dave - The 30 Seconds is not a bad listen, if only for Jorma & Jack keeping things going. LJS was a dud, unfortunately. I seem to remember the LP cover for LJS folded into a cigar box(?), or perhaps that was Bark. But you are right, a great cover for 30 Seconds.

I only saw anything Jefferson once, and that was Starship, unfortunately (on a bill with Gentle Giant and J Geils Band !?), right when their first album was out, and all I remember was poor Grace had been in to the firewater, and likely had no idea where she was. I get disappointed when artists do that, and ruin their performance, but it’s more a thing of the past.

Yes, Long John Silvers not too hot. And having listened to the whole show from Winterland 9/22/72, I have come to think that maybe the highlights on"30 Seconds Over Winterland" are all you really need after all. Some of the instrumentals are alright - but there is a lot of mediocre songs there as well.

How was Gentle Giant?

Alvarhanso - I was not familiar with much of their music prior to seeing them, but one of my friends that went with us had gone specifically to see them, was a fan, and thought they were great. He often played us albums like Octopus and The Power & The Glory. My takeaway from the three bands was J Geils for their energy. It was an odd mix of bands, I remember that.

This is a great boxed set.

10/30/1973: One of those shows that doesn't work for me...... for except when it does......... Last night was one of those nights (~}:-) Why even have a track list?

I hear ya, but 73 Dark Star! Come on, that’s gotta be worth a little hassle ; )
It’s funny what we all end up liking etc lol.
Hell I’ll mostly ever only listen to the 2 Dark Star discs, but I’m sure there’s 12,000 other opinions!
You say PO teh Toe, and I say Pa ta to, but hopefully it’s baked with sour cream and we get to wash it down with a tasty stout!

Fleetwood mac live 1977 World Tour
GOGD Portland, Seattle 1974 - What a Playin' Jam!
GOGD Greek Theater 5/13,14,15/1983
GOGD Red Rocks 9/6,7/1983

I say, I say, when do we get the next Dave's?

DaP #42 release date is 29th April so they’ll probably start to sell the non-subscription copies around mid April. Perhaps a little after Easter?

Luckily I remembered taxis are yellow in the US or I’d never have proved my non-robotic nature.

I don't know why it took a half dozen listens to catch on, but the 10/17/72 Uncle John's Band features a rip-roaring solo from Garcia during the 2nd half jam. I would have been a smidge disappointed if there hadn't been at least one UJB in this box set.

In fact, the whole box is special. I still suspect someone got a hold of these masters and played em a bit before Mr. Norman got a hold of them. They have that worn in feeling to them. Just guessing, still sounds great though. But that October 72 run is one for the ages.

GD
2 4 2
Have a Grateful (Holiday) weekend everyone!
Peace be with you All, keep on truck’n !,

Off topic a bit, I noticed that the July 78 box and the Spring 90 Other one boxes are available on prostudiomasters.com in high res. Seems strange because they don't appear to be available on dead.net (though I may be looking in the wrong place on this site). Are there other sites that have digital box sets from the past?

I'm not affiliated with prostudiomasters in any way shape or form. I just thought if authorized digital downloads are available, folks might be able get them who missed out in the past.

This post didn't belong here. Moving it to where it belongs. Sorry, I'll turn off the lights when I leave.

...and still not sold out! I just finished listening to each show, so this is my first pass. Took a while. I gotta say, disc 20 is a stand out. That's the third disc of the second 1973 show in the box. Course you guys already know that. Dark Star>Stella Blue>Eyes>Weather Report Suite! Sweet is right! I listened to this disc three times over three morning's breakfast, and it will bear re-listening for years to come! Multiple breath-taking jams, one after another.

Listening to 6/24/73 from the PNE box, I started re-reading Nicholas Meriwether's opening article in the accompanying book. He makes several references to Robert Peterson, best known to me for his collaboration with Phil Lesh on, I think, four songs. Anyway, reading this made me feel that I would like to read more by Peterson, but there doesn't seem to be anything easily available. I think it would be great if Deadnet could publish a collection - something very different from their usual fare of extras! I'd go for a book like that over a tee shirt any day.

My brother met Robert Peterson, on 4/28/85 at St Micheals Alley in Palo Alto. They hung out all day and walked over to the Frost Ampitheatre together to see the Grateful Dead that day. He left my brother an autographed copy of his book Far Away Radios. He wrote inside, "To Paul, no more hard time. " My brother said he was a real nice guy, a real cool person. He also wrote a book called Alleys of the Heart, which I see is for sale on Amazon.

To meet and talk properly with Robert Peterson - thanks for sharing that, Billy.
I looked on Amazon UK last night and couldn't see any books of his poetry - maybe the one you mentioned is only available in the U.S. at the moment. I'll keep my eyes peeled.

I have just looked again - and Alleys of the Heart is there - but it is really expensive. So definitely - print it on here!

Really looking forward to getting this sometime, crazy that flippers on eBay are expecting people to buy it for the same price as it is on dead.et store!

Thought I would give some of this material a few more listens before the new box makes its arrival at the end of the month. Last night it was 10/17/72 and the show I've been least familiar with. Shame on me. What it lacks in BIG JAM material is more than made up for with consistently solid rhythmic interplay and at up-tempo speeds. Solid and riveting. Remember the 1980s maxell tape ads, with the guy in the east chair getting literally blown away from the power coming from the speakers? That was me for three hours.

Been diving back into these gems over the last week and I must say the shows really are great. This an incredible box set and one to for sure pick up. There’s a variety of play from rockin dead to full blown interstellar play by the boys.
I can’t say I like one show more than the next since they are all different and feed all the jonesing one may have for one type of show or another. Not to be missed.

I agree. Considering the peaks the band scale on a variety of styles of music, during three of their best years that feed into each other, this just might be the most vital box set released yet.

well had to post again.. this box set is worth the money. compared to the 73 box set just released this one is better. yeah 73 has some really hot shows that we all know of and have been listening to for decades, but the st louis box set is for the heads. eclectic, lots of variety, gusto and every show is different. Not to be missed!!

agreed!!

I've noticed over the last 12 months that I don't tend to play these shows as a part of a unified whole, like I do with ones in other boxes. If I am in the mood for Fall 1971, 1972 or 1973 shows, I seem to listen to those shows in relation to others from the same year, instead of in relation to other shows in this box.
But each and every shows here is great, however you listen to them.