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    marye
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    New year, new update. Tell us of your musical adventures in real time!

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  • uncle_tripel
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    always...

    ...avoided the NR on recording
    and found very early the highs just got too muted for my ear,

    returning to some more 1978 this week:
    june 4th 1978
    at Campus Stadium, UCSB in Santa Barbara, Ca

    some more friends of the devils? lol...
    ...= the "on stage" harley davidson acceleration into--->NFA

    make LOVE, not war!

    PEACE!
    uncle_tripel

    PS: new avatar = mickey & jerry on 7/4/86 @ Rich Stadium

  • JimInMD
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    Noise Reduction and...

    I used Dolby for a brief blink of an eye when I first started copying tapes. Being young and naive, I thought who wants tape noise to come through on the recording, duh.. no brainer, I flipped the Dolby switch on my Nak and hit record. I just want to hear the music, no hiss.

    Very quickly reality set in. Was it Dolby A or Dolby B? Was the source tape recording using Dolby, if so, if you hit Dolby wouldn't it further compress the recording and further alter the sound, you can't play back using Dolby Squared, right? And what do you do in the car, in the boom box (yes.. we were just a few years out of 8 tracks when I started getting tapes). And who really flips or unflips the Dolby switch anyway based on how you think the recording was made. After all, were all these tapes properly notated every step of the way.

    So I quickly gave up on noise reduction, I had a good enough tape deck that I shouldn't be so worried about tape noise. I quit Dolby and never looked back (and never worried about pressing the Dolby button again).

    Just spit balling here, but my prejudices sometimes come to the surface when I hear a Dicks or Daves or Road Trips that sounds a bit muffled and I wonder if the particular Reel or Cassette or Betamax or whatever might have had a Dolby snafu baked in. To be clear, I have no proof this has ever occurred, I just wonder sometimes.

    I should emphasize Jeffrey Norman / David Glasser, etc. have gotten better at their jobs. So if there is any compression or noise reduction used anywhere along the way, they better at making this music sound as good as it possibly can, regardless of the sordid history of the source tapes. Thank you GD, Mockingbird Studios, the good folks and Plangent Processing and all the others that get this music to my front porch. Oh, and thank you tapers too!

  • Oroborous
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    Ooops, forgot

    I can’t say for sure off hand about everyone who recorded Dead and NR, but Betty was known for not using it, and if things are done right, no need.
    Nothing comes for free, so every time you do something, it will effect other things, sometimes negatively…a cost benefit trade off…perhaps just like BITD with high gen cassettes? To Dolby or not to Dolby, that is the question lol
    I always have tried not to do any permanent adjustments/fixes, preferring to try and fix some other way, eq etc, but nothing permanent that you can’t fix yer fix!

    Imho NR etc becomes more of a band aid for when things weren’t able to be right, or to help mask issues beyond repair, i.e., the ravages of time.
    Don’t think I’ve ever used any on a master recording?

    Onto rest of GDM soundtrack this afternoon…

  • 1stshow70878
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    Thx Oro

    So 15 ips or 30 ips would have been impractical for shows I imagine. Expense, changing reels too often, and as these were for listening by the band not studio use, etc. But what about them using noise reduction? I'm guessing no Dolby.
    As an aside, I seldom have my Dolby on when listening to cassettes even though most were recorded with it. Even factory tapes with Dolby seem less muffled without it and I'm not listening at thunderous levels (most of the time) where hiss is an issue.
    Skylabs, a top notch mid-western audio repairer, no longer works on certain categories of equipment: Consoles, quad receivers, linear tracking turntables, automatic turntables, and reel to reels. Just not worth it from a cost perspective for what those machines sell for vs. repair costs. There are still plenty of specialists who will and R-to-Rs are available restored at very reasonable prices but good luck finding pre-recorded tapes (old or new). Nobody makes them anymore. I was never tempted but my cassette guy sells tons of R-to-Rs for like $200-$300 fully restored, but they are more run of the mill Sony and not high end. And they sell fast!
    Thanks again and cheers bro

  • Oroborous
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    First half of GDM soundtrack

    Ist show. The more surface area (wider the tape), and/or the faster the recording speed, the higher the resolution. And yes R2R can most certainly sound best. (Like anything though, if done well)
    The problem is a good one is very expensive, they’re as hard to keep maintained etc as a TT, and good linage quality tapes are rare and expensive, oh, and more a pain to “flip” than even a record…but they can sound amazing!

    Remember, many CDs AND most vinyl are sourced from (hopefully) master R2R tapes! A purist with the gear and ears might argue that direct to (vinyl) disc recording is the ultimate…but good luck lol
    One of the main reasons digital still gets such a bad rap is twofold
    1- the conversion used originally, and lack of attention to disparity’s between different DACs in the chain. Conversion has come a loonnggg way baby! AND…
    2- a significant number of the CDs first produced to meet the huge demand were not sourced from the master tapes, and lineage and source quality were often a joke! Caveat emptor: not all CDs are created alike!…or Blu-ray’s, or DVDs, or Vinyl etc Like drugs boys and girls, know your sources!

  • 1stshow70878
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    4-11-78

    5th show in the box.
    OK, now were getting there.
    Great 1st set.
    2nd set list looks good too.
    Moving right along...
    Cheers

    Random ?s for the tapers and the knowledgeable. Were these original tapes running at 7.5 ips on reel to reels and were they done with any Dolby or whatever? And do you audience tapers use any noise reduction? Been talking to an analog guy who says with reel to reel running fast you get superior saturation and the best analog sound of all, which to his ear beats CDs and even vinyl, and Dolby is unnecessary for good reel to reel recordings.

  • uncle_tripel
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    "Don't...

    climb on the fence, you idiot"

    august 6th 1974

    now that's much better, the sound is less polished or over-dubbed...or whatever...

    support your local library,
    my better half's employer also

    Peace for All!
    uncle_tripel

    PS - Hey Bobby, party like it's 1984, Happy B-day!

  • Colin Gould
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    Right now

    This is a little niche for this forum since I’m streaming it on BBC iplayer so it’s probably only accessible in the UK,
    John Martyn - Live at Reading University 1978
    This is an episode of ‘Rock Goes to College’. We saw him several times 78 -79 and his solo concerts were always excellent. It’s available for the next 27 days and is highly recommended. For those who can’t access it I recommend his album ‘One World’ which was his current album when this concert was recorded.
    Edit: To be honest I’d recommend any of his albums really

  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    Slumming it ; )

    With Dave’s 17, since the rude abrupt halt to my research via the archive being down : (
    Ah well, I’ll just have to suffer lol

    Hope their highly trained crack equipment crew gets it just exactly perfect sooner than later 🤞Was gonna do the big five O anniversary treatment of Rocktober 74, complete in order as I don’t think I’ve done so? Sigh…bastards!

    Kudos to Uncle T supporting the local Library! (TOO is a librarian ; )
    If you don’t use em, ya lose em!
    And remember, they killed Marion ; )

  • uncle_tripel
    Joined:
    yeah, so ...

    ...this weekend I visited our local library, been awhile...
    took home the 5 CD GOGD Movie Soundtrack box...
    today's listening party:

    oct 20 1974 set 2

    maybe, I'll need to listen to this box abit more, or maybe not...?
    finding the mix is almost like, well, you know, too studioish...

    ... DL announcement later this week, hey now, how about it?

    make LOVE, not WAR!!!

    uncle_tripel

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New year, new update. Tell us of your musical adventures in real time!
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...with a high of 30 degrees today, I like when it gets HOT, move that thermometer upward and onward to 1974-02-23
Peace All!
uncle_tripel

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In reply to by icecrmcnkd

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I was listening to the first of those two San Diego laryngitis shows yesterday. Something about Garcia's playing (for example, on Mexicali -> MAMU) reminded me of the Broome County Arena show from the previous November, 11/6/77. Unsurprising, I suppose, given that those shows are only two months apart. Back to 1/7: what a really well-played first set; that Let it Grow definitely shattered a few minds. And the Dancin->Samson is a real treat. Interesting to compare this rendition to '76 versions, like 6/17/76 Passaic...

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Deer Creek
DaP 40
Disc 1 & 2

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Testing 1, 2. Testing 1, 2, 3. Can everyone hear me? lol
1974-03-24 cow palace diP 24, it's been awhile since the last listen, so let's get on with the show! ROCK!!

Peace All!
uncle_tripel

2/3/78 :)

Edit: which should have been released whole. :( (I'm not listening to Dick's 18)
maybe its a good day for 1/22/78 ??

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46th anniversary
Eugene, OR
DaP 23

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So if we set aside the October shows, '74 only has 35 dates to play with. Of those, at least a dozen are released officially and are complete (or as complete as they are likely to ever be.) Then there are several more where parts of the show were used to create an official release (for ex., Dick's vol 24) or perhaps two shows are excerpted and combined (like with Road Trips Vol 2 Num 3) or even three shows (Dick's vols 7 and 31).

When all the dust settles, there are really just a handful of shows - Reno, UCSB, Oakland, Springfield, and a few others in July like the Hollywood Bowl - that are still unreleased until you get to the September European expedition. And of that tour, I think only Munich 9/14 and the two Paris shows are unreleased. But then the question becomes, does the vault hold all the reels from each show? Pretty sure 2/22/74 isn't complete, and I imagine there must be others.

That brings us to the October stand. Does the Grateful Dead Movie Soundtrack represent the best we are likely to get from this run? Because I seem to recall there are issues with the master reels. My memory is pretty foggy on that point, though... and it took a bit of work to sneak this post by the "hey now" sentinel.

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Note to all: after much testing, I've found that the name of a famous venue at Post and Steiner streets is a 'hey now' offense. @DaveRock this may be a reason why it's been impossible to post about 1974

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In reply to by daverock

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Sounds good but a lot of pops.
Not such a great pressing.

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Deer Creek
DaP 40
Discs 3 & 4

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Honolulu, HI
54th Anniversary
DaP 19

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July 31, 1974 (on CD)
Sweet!
Cheers

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In reply to by icecrmcnkd

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I felt inspired to play this after reading Cnkds post. It seems that vinyl is variable in terms of pops and crackles. Mine played very smoothly, without any audible interference at all. I haven't always been so lucky. 2/27/69 has a bit of surface noise on at the end of Mountains of the Moon. And in the Europe Box set of the Lyceum shows, 2 sides were a bit scuffed - something which Deadnet kindly remedied by sending me replacements. That's a great album, though, that Playing from 5/21/74.

But records are my favourite medium for listening to the Dead now. Mention of 7/31/74 - that's a big temptation to get that on vinyl. Whenever I am tempted, sooner or later...

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you don't ever know, 1974-05-17 Vancouver, BC and yeah yeah yeah, thank you for a real good pitb :)

Peace All!
uncle_tripel

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Jerry Garcia/ Merl Saunders
The Boarding House
San Fran
51st Anniversary
GarciaLive, Vol. 12

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In reply to by daverock

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Yes, it’s a crap shoot if you will get a good pressing.
DP2 10-31-71% was great.
10-9,10-76 had a few sides with issues.
5-8-77 had a huge smudge across the side with Scarlet->Fire, and extensive pops and static on Morning Dew.
The comments for 1-22-78 was that it was a terrible pressing, so I avoided it, even when it went on sale.
All sides of Lyceum 72 were good for me.

I got a Spin-Clean washer and it has helped clean up some dirty LP’s, but it can’t fix a bad pressing.

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In reply to by icecrmcnkd

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I think that Daverock and I both got good copies of 5-19-74.

I’m tempted on 7-31-74, but will wait to see what people report about their copies.

5-7-77 is a joke on the reseller market, asking way too much for it. I’ll get it in a few years when the scalpers are sick of it sitting around collecting dust.

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Seattle Center Arena
53rd Anniversary
There's a good Charlie Miller soundboard patch on the archive.

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In reply to by icecrmcnkd

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Cnkd - yes, my copy of 5/19/74 plays really well. As does the vinyl version of 5/7/77 - a great show. I didn't get 5/8/77 when it came out on vinyl, as I have played it so often over the years I wasn't sure it was worth it. Which seems a bit of a blooper now. I got 5/9/77, and it would be nice to have the trilogy. Like you with the 7th, if I see it at a reasonable price I think I will get it.

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Oakland Coliseum
31st Anniversary

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In reply to by TN John

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I was there. (just wrote up a lil review but I realize this isn't the right forum, so I'm movin it)

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In reply to by Obeah

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Spinning now for the first time, sounds good so far.
140 g, don’t know why everything isn’t 180 g at this point.
Rush released Exit Stage Left as 200 g. Those are some sturdy LP’s.

I got Hard Working Americans “We’re All In This Together” vinyl recently. The LP’s were warped out of the package, but still played fine. The pressing was good, but the LP’s feel lighter than 140 g.

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...TODAY to re-visit 1977-05-04 SET 2 palladium, i know i've got a DL on CD somewhere in my treasure chest...yup, bound to cover just a little more ground. Everyone enjoy your DAY!

Peace All!
uncle_tripel

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Avalon Ballroom
55th Anniversary

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Ratdog video
TRI Studios
Set 1
12th Anniversary

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In reply to by icecrmcnkd

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No, sorry to disappoint you, but they won't let me print my response to that - hey now!

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...ok, I listened; and now back to 1974 and the Memorial Coliseum concert in Portland, OR, that would be on 05-19. so looking forward to this second set of JAMS and also the PEGGY-O. Everyone enjoy your weekend!

Peace to All!
uncle_tripel

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...let's kick this off, ...blue suede shoes, ...I'm Uncle Sam, ...how do you do? UCSB 1974-05-25 a daytime gig; is everybody on the stage awake lol, let's GO!

Have a great day:)
Peace All!
uncle_tripel

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Hey rockers!!!

Paperwork day, good background for autopsy reports is Corvallis 1/17/1970. Underrated and little talked about show.....

My masters are strange folk with very little care for music in them..........

Rock on,

Doc
I like music because it's the only invisible art form......

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let's do it again outside in the daytime; 1974-06-08 in oakland stadium; it's a great day for a ballgame...cheers

peace all!
uncle_tripel

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...some fine SUMMER weather with some fine GD thrown-in on the side, OH YEAH! 1974-06-16 will do the trick TODAY at the Des Moines State Fair Grandstand.

peace all!
uncle_tripel

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...taking a break to spend time w/ daP 49; doin' a most enjoyable show today 1974-06-18 in louisville, it's been about 8 months since the last listen, so let's get to rockin'

peace all!
uncle_tripel

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resist...let the world go by, like the clouds a'streamin'...one more Summer show; 1974-06-20 atlanta, and then I'll move onward to daP 49! everyone enjoy your weekend

peace all!
uncle_tripel

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A friend sent me a top ten jazz albums list recently for comment, asked me mine. Impossible, better to ask what were my last five heard. Whats been going on in jazz since the big band era is so way beyond than can be summed up easily. He was looking to discover beyond Miles and Trane, reminded me of the Rick Beato interview of Pat Metheny that can be seen on ut ube. Highly recommended, Pat covers his own career influences, speaks to composition and theory in most thoughtful ways.

I got a great cd by Grant Green last week called "Slick! Live at Oil Can Henry's". Recorded on 9/5/75. Quite inexpensive in England which suggested to me that it might not be up to much. But it sounds really good, has a generous booklet and features some superb jazz/ funk playing. Nothing like his 60's recordings.

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Madison, WI
Scott Clugston master on the archive.

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...not in these parts with a cold day on tap, fireplace is stoked...and away we go with 1974-06-22 daP 2022 BONUS DISC

peace all!
uncle_tripel

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My digital copy of The Wire magazine for March has just showed up. One of the reviewed albums is ‘Chicken Shit Bingo’ by Peter Brötzmann and Paal Nilsen-Love. It seemed interesting from the review so I streamed it. Well recommend. It is another instrumental album described as explicit. Presumably for the album title.

One of the other reviews is for a reissue of ‘Sheet One’ by Plastikman. Horrified to see this came out in 1993! I am getting old.

Edit: Still reading the magazine. Streaming another album ‘Resonance Studies in Ecstatic Consciousness’ by Madison Greenstone. It is almost impossible for me to relate the sounds I am hearing with the playing of a clarinet. Well worth a listen.

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In reply to by Colin Gould

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Mention of Peter Brotzmann reminds me a of a cd I got years ago - "Machine Gun". I don't know if it's the same man - this one was a saxophonist, and I notice the album came out in 1968 originally. One of the most ferocious records I have ever heard.

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...the road today...[while listening to a cassette [University of Nevada 1974-05-12 set 2]...saw a deadhead sticker on a Cadillac

peace all!
uncle_tripel

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"play my guitar" 1973-03-20 Little Feat: LIVE at Santa Monica Civic Auditorium, great listening to this old bootleg;
THE FAN: you were a sweet girl, when you were a cheerleader, But I think you're much better now!

peace all!
uncle tripel

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...it's been years since I've pulled out the dozen or more cassettes and cd's of LIVE "FEAT" Recordings in my treasure chest, so WHY STOP now, 1978-10-03 UNH Fieldhouse today, gonna be a "FEATS don't fail me now" weekend

peace all!
uncle_tripel

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Kaiser Convention Center
There's video footage of this show minus the encore.
It's on Kevin Tobin's YouTube page.

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I haven't even listened to the 4/28 show yet - 4/27 has just captivated me! I'm on my third listen this morning, just getting to set II.

I have to say, it's been very exciting to see how much approbation this release has been met with! I know '85 isn't everyone's "cup of tea" but I've always loved it so much and it just makes me happy to see other folks vibin and groovin, discovering it for the first time, rediscovering it, or just confirming what they already knew. Thanks Mr. Lemieux, thanks Mr. Norman, thanks all you Rhino folks who made this double release go down. Everybody's Playing...

edit: how I love the transitions from space into The Wheel in 1985! This one is beautiful. Blossom Music Center and the Greek also have nice renditions a bit later, in June. I mean, then again, I always love the way they drift or climb or weave their way into the Wheel; the transition played on 5/19/77 has been making me feel downright emotional for decades now

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In reply to by uncle_tripel

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Did you get the Waiting For Columbus Box Set from Rhino?
If not, it’s highly suggested