Grateful Dead

I was close... if you google it you will get an answer pretty quick. Here is a quick quote from my first google land.

Rosie McGee was cracking up at her desk when Dennis "Wiz" Leonard walked in from lunch.

"What's the story?" Wiz asked McGee, then a receptionist and bookkeeper at Alembic, a California-based custom electric guitar, bass, and pre-amp company where Wiz worked as an audio engineer.

"Well, the Department of Defense just called me," she told him. "They were asking if we could defer the purchase of our next four 3500s, so they could get four."

Those amps were in high demand at Alembic. The 3500s, in particular, would be used in the Wall of Sound's vocal array tweeters, drum tweeters, and for Jerry Garcia's guitars. But was it just Alembic buying them up? A rumor was going around—a "urban myth," Wiz told me—that the US military was using Mac 3500s for sonar, specifically to listen for Soviet submarines.

Isn't the goal here to be lighthearted? I try my best to not let the craziness of the world/media not get to me here? Isn't the goal here to be a kind prankster? They ask, "Are you kind?" Most of the flamers I look like as children, either actual age or not. Many are so deep in social media and issues that result thereof, they cannot see what it is doing to them. They are being handled, manipulated, and unwittingly abused by the profiteers. I try to stay away.

Jim, had no idea of the McIntosh amp issues. Thanks for that piece of info. As much as I love the music, it is just how they were. So real and fun which someone wrote, "creating their own iconography." The richness of their traditions and internal musical dialog that we love is an unending source of comfort as they lived it everyday for 30 years. I wish I had a shot at hearing even 50% of their music, but as I have written before, my OCD makes me wear out a great jam over and over instead of looking for the next one. Need to work on that for sure.

So Jim and Oro and many others, thanks for passing the test.

G

You are kind soul.. I appreciate all you provide here. Same goes to Oro. I think it would take a face to face to catch me up on all the technology (old or new) that the two of you bring for me to truly understand. As for old.. and I am sure you both know.. in either late 73 or early 74 (I think 73).. the GD got into a scuffle with DOD over equipment they were ordering that was desperately needed for national security. Apparently, the Macintosh amps they were buying in unprecedented numbers were needed both in general and more specifically by special, top secret subs that needed the clean sound and amplification to either detect enemy interference or better hear and make stealth the noise they were making. So they called the GD and tried to work out a way to either stall, postpone or barter a purchasing arrangement that would not jeopardize national security.

I think this is well known, and I apologize in advance for going on memory and surely confusing some of the information listed above as fact. ..but what is written is pretty close, if someone can clarify and correct it would not offend me in the least.

Hope I didn't write anything that was incorrect or in any way interpreted as insulting or offensive.

As for chainsaws and sawzaws to clear way for our living room WOS.. what could possibly be more fun.

Ah the sounds of my earliest fun dentist. "You dont need no gas!"

All my stereo stuff is old, always fussy. Running all old Yamaha into JBL (plus svs). Trying to get stuff cleaned and parts replaced. When it is on, it is quite the stereo indeed. I have an old yamaha eq that I hooked up when Dave's first show was released. Goes into Pre amp, then to a yamaha mx-830. The MX-830 is powering 4 jbl g300's and 2 jbl LX 600's. Running 6 speakers means the amp is running at 550 watts at 2 ohms. It cooks. The speakers all have same tweeters and mid ranges. The 300s run 8" woofers and the 600s have 10 inch woofers. It is old but as you say "in budget." Smile.

edit:
Then the svs has a 550 watt continous, 850 watt peak sledge. The svs I picked up a few years back for $399. I had to have a sub with an internal crossover. So out of preamp to svs (rca cables), then back into the preamp, then to amp. Having old yamaha means older connection points. Modern amps control the crossover themself and pump sub out already crossed over. I happen to run my internal sub amp at a cutoff of 82 hz. George Lucas uses 80 hz crossover in his THX sound systems. So I am slightly above that. I did some sampling of the room using the preamp features.

G

Neanderthal's use chain saws.. a sophisticated audiophile attacks their living rooms delicately with a sawzaw.

I'm totally jealous.. I am blasting with my 20 year old Denon, similar age speakers with no intents on upgrading anytime soon. Budgets be budgets..

Can you imagine writing the real equipment book? With the constant upgrading of the system, that book would be multiple enormous volumes. Hope the Meyers have logged a lot of their research.

No 18's here. Of course not needed.

Back last year, Oro, you asked if I was running multiple subs. I am not. I have a 12" SVS Systems sub with built in Sledge D amp. It is like the rabbit, it is a thumper. Goes down to 13 or 15hz, so below the 20hz of human hearing. That is, if all memories about frequency response are still good. Starting to get the old enough to question my own thoughts at times.

I am still hoping for the day when we can listen to WoS through a system that takes us to the "Fare the Well" P.A.. Would have to be software based, but I look at it like 4K upcoding an HDTV signal.

Wow, FTW PA is now 7 years ago. Bet the Meyers' have gone way beyond that. I almost applied for a job at Meyer 7 years ago. Was in my career field. POTHead.

That 2015 system had multiple flying 18's. It also had a load balancing system. This was done by having 2 systems, intake and outake. That is, they had 100 microphones throughout the stadium to push into the analytics software. Of course, the output systems was not connected except thru analytics, to the input system to avoid feedback. Brilliant. The analytic input system could then be used to balance the PA by section of the of the stadium.

Sorry for interruption but I wanted find the article on pro sound web about 2015 FTW PA.

I did actually find it, but not by searching pro sound web, but by searching internet at large and it found it on the pro sound web site, even though pro sound web could not find it in its own search.

Let me know, maybe I can send lynk thru PM here, not sure if they cut that off.

Any way need to do a little work after lunch. I mean a little work.

G

That’s what chain saws are for!

Gary, I think besides trying to keep up with Garcia, Phil was using that big system on stage to help fill in those near field areas (up front etc) we were discussing, the areas that didn’t get proper coverage from the PA?
What some refer to as the Phil Zone, though to me that’s was where both his stage sound and the PA sound merged and acoustically coupled.
But yeah, My spine tingles and can still feel rather than hear those sub frequencies in my DNA. (By sub I mean below the threshold of hearing, not a subwoofer). Those Meyers 18”s in the PA were ridiculous in the right spot, in the right venue etc.
Plus, it’s the Grateful Fucking Dead so why not go big!

PS, that Grateful Dead gear book is great, though a little dialed down.

Home version. 18"'s and 4"'s. If I move some things around, they should fit.

thanks for the write-up, input. Need a little time to read again and ponder. Think again we are speaking the same language but as 90% of communication is non verbal, some times the written language let's us down.

It seems I have the dead's equipment book, need to track that down. Not necessarily for this discussion but just to find it again...

Should have figured Phil would use Meyer systems. Using 18's onstage, wow!

Hope all well your way!

G

As of late 82 or early 83 Phil was using 4 Meyers cabinets: (4 -18”, 4 -15”), 2 per cabinet powered by custom PIE amps, until they started not using speakers on stage in 92. (Which I didn’t like).

Not sure I get all what your saying? I agree that Soundboards do not sound natural for many reasons.
Perhaps your referring to the phenomena of Microphones not having frequency response to accurately record bass waves combing sub sonic frequencies at those kind of SPL levels?
Mic location can also make a big difference and was partly why Dan started the tapers section. Unless you have the right knowledge and equipment chances are a recording made too close will mot sound good.
Plus you have the physics: the lower the frequency, the longer the sound wave. If your too close you’ll not hear the fully formed bass note etc.
In fact if your too close much of the PA sound will blow right by you. You’ll also not properly experience stereo imaging. That’s why usually, the sound board or just before it was THE place to be. It was a trade off going up front: yeah you were up close and could see and hear their stage sound, but the PA mix was so above and beyond you that you missed a lot of info. Eventually they added little Meyers boxes, usually sitting on the front of the stage to add some vocals etc for those up close.
Nothing comes for free! Personally, like Bear, I didn’t like the stereo set up because of this. Unless you were in the right spot, you missed a lot of info, especially if you were sitting on the side!
This was the main reason Reserved seating sucked: nobody could sit where they wanted so if you were a sound nut like us, you often had to endure less than perfect sound/mixes.