• https://www.dead.net/features/news/europe-72-complete-recordings-all-music-edition
    Europe '72: The Complete Recordings - All The Music Edition

    Europe '72:
    The Complete Recordings -
    All The Music Edition

    Our Europe '72 boxed set is now officially sold out, with all 7,200 boxes now gone! We can't thank you enough for your support, for having faith in the project and taking the plunge to purchase this unprecedented release. Despite the fact that it's going to be a bit of a wait before it arrives on your door step, we are sure you'll be blown away with the results.

    We are now offering the All-The-Music edition of Europe '72, which includes all of the music recorded on the tour, with each show in its own individual package, complete with its own liner notes by Dead scholars such as David Gans, Blair Jackson, Steve Silberman, Gary Lambert and others, as well as by attendees of some of the shows. You'll get 73 CDs and over 70 hours of prime Grateful Dead.

    IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MUSIC...

    Because you dared dream this might happen one day… Because you went down to the Gypsy Woman and offered up your first-born to try to make it happen… Because there are enough passionate Dead Heads at Rhino/GD who thought it might be cool for this to happen… It’s happening! Coming in September is a gargantuan EUROPE ’72 MEGA-BOX SET containing ALL 22 SHOWS of what is arguably the greatest tour the Grateful Dead ever played, on a whopping and clearly cosmic 73 DISCS (over 70 hours of music!). Bet you didn’t see that comin’!

    Really, at this point we probably don’t need to lay on too much hype about how wonderful the music is: Chances are, if you’re even considering buying a copy of this enormous box, you already know how amazing the Dead’s tour of Europe in April and May of 1972 was. To review briefly, though, the Dead’s first tour outside of North America took them to all sorts of historic and unusual venues in England, Denmark, West Germany, France, Holland and even tiny Luxembourg. Many members of the Dead “family” came along on what was really an extended working vacation that was designed to both expose the Dead to new audiences and also reward the band for their unlikely conquest of America during the preceding two years. As a hedge against the costs of the nearly two-month trip, the Dead’s label, Warner Bros., paid for the band to lug around a 16-track recorder to capture the entire tour… and we’re glad they did!

    This was a band at the top of its game, still ascending in the wake of three straight hit albums — Workingman’s Dead, American Beauty and the live Grateful Dead (“Skull & Roses”). It had been a year since the lineup had gone to its single-drummer configuration, six months since Keith Godchaux had been broken in as the group’s exceptional pianist, and this marked the first tour to feature Donna Godchaux as a member of the touring band. There was a ton on new, unreleased material that came into the repertoire in the fall of ’71 (after “Skull & Roses” was out) and during the spring of ’72, including “Tennessee Jed,” “Jack Straw,” “Mexicali Blues,” “He’s Gone,” “Comes A Time,” “Ramble on Rose,” “One More Saturday Night,” “Black-Throated Wind,” “Looks Like Rain” and Pigpen’s “Chinatown Shuffle,” “The Stranger (Two Souls in Communion)” and “Mr. Charlie.” (Sadly, this was Pigpen’s final tour.) All those future classics were interspersed with songs from the aforementioned “hit” albums—such as “Uncle John’s Band,” “Brokedown Palace,” “Cumberland Blues,” “Casey Jones,” “Sugar Magnolia,” “Bertha,” “Not Fade Away,” et al — and then were topped off by loads of big jamming numbers — the Europe ’72 tour produced spectacular versions of “Dark Star,” “The Other One” “Playing in the Band,” “Truckin’,” “China Cat Sunflower” > “I Know You Rider,” “Good Lovin’,” “Lovelight” and even the early Pig chestnut “Caution.” And that’s leaving out a truckload of other tunes, too! There wasn’t a clunker show in the bunch, and many are acknowledged today as classics. No doubt you already have some favorites.

    Through the years, there have been a few releases of material from the Europe tour—starting with the 3-album Europe ’72 which knocked our socks off in the fall of that year, and followed many years later by material from a pair of German shows and the fantastic 4-CD Stepping Out, culled from the group’s eight shows in England. Incredibly, though, only one full show from the tour has come out previously: the excellent 4/24 concert in Dusseldorf, Germany, released as Rockin’ the Rhein in 2004.

    Until now, that is. Jeffrey Norman, who has been the primary mixer of Dead archival multi-track material for the past 15 years (Fillmore West ’69, Ladies and Gentlemen…, Rockin’ the Rhein, Nightfall of Diamonds, etc.) has spent many months toiling over the 16-track masters from the tour, and will continue working on the mixes through the Winter and Spring, employing the high-tech Plangent Processes transfer and restoration tools, trying to get every show to sound “just exactly perfect” (as Bob Weir says) for this release. You might think you’ve heard that intense “Dark Star” > “Sugar Mag” > “Caution” from Copenhagen, but I guarantee you’ve never heard it sound this alive! Mastering to HDCD specs is two-time Grammy-winning engineer David Glasser of Airshow Mastering. Needless to say, all the songs that turned up on previous Europe compilations will be appear in their proper show contexts, and in the case of songs from the Europe ’72 album, without overdubs that were added later (where possible).

    So dig deep, raid the penny jar, take a weekend job at Jack-in-the-Box, beg your kindly ol’ grandma for some of your inheritance early… Yes, it’s an extravagance, but jeez, you (or your loved one) deserve it! This is way cool.

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  • simonrob
    13 years ago
    What happened to this thread is...
    that on October 13 the entire thread disappeared. It was partially reinstated on October 14 or 15. In the intervening period, 12 posts were placed on here, mostly asking what happened. These are now the first 12 posts of this thread. When it was partially reinstated, only the first 1122 posts were reinstated (from the first post on March 8 until a post on September 20). All posts from September 20 to October 13's disappearance have gone for good it would seem. All posts after the reinstatement begin with post 1136 from October 15 and come at the end here. It looks something like this now: Oct. 13 - Oct. 14 Posts 1 - 12 Mar. 8 - Sep. 20 Posts 13 - 1135 Oct. 15 - present Posts 1136 - last Sep. 20 - Oct. 13 Disappeared. Can you follow that?
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    borncrosseyed56
    13 years ago
    What ever happened to this All Music Edition Thread?
    What ever happened to this All Music Edition Thread? It started March, I think when this AME was announced. Over 1000 (including some of mine) are gone. Now it starts on 13 October, 2011. I liked reading some of the older posts to gain some more insight and also to see how off some people's thinking was at the time. I'll miss it, but get over it and move on. For some reason(s) unknown they're gone. I would be happy to see that part of the comments thread reappear. I will move on, with the *excitement* of the new release series coming up ... soon.
  • kevjones
    13 years ago
    Human Nature
    I LOVE LOVE LOVE reading the Europe '72 posts. It's become part of my daily ritual. I was so relieved when Rhino decided to release individual shows. I originally ordered a personalized set (St. Dilbert no less), but cancelled once I realized how crazy it was to spend that kind of "ching" at once. I am pretty poor. What I find so interesting in some of the threads is the prevailing "I thought I was gonna have this, and no one else was" mantra circling around. These must have been the same heads who hoarded their pristine boards of vintage shows and would never play them or tape them for anybody. Weird? Anyway, having the opportunity to pick and choose releases is great. I gladly snatched up the Newcastle show and 4/17/72 Tivoli. The Caution on that show is ferocious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I figure I'll pick up the rest of the shows with Caution (skipped the other Tivoli show because the Caution is on Europe 72 bonus cuts), and a few more that tickle my fancy. It was really nice to get ALL the music out to everybody. It's not meant to be hoarded by a greedy few. By the way, Europe 72 vol. 2 is outstanding. The Other One is epic and I love Pig's organ on it. In fact, one of the reasons I like this tour is being blessed with both Keith and Pigpen at the same time. Both are in fine form. Finally, if you haven't done it already, read "We're all Bozos on this Bus" in Living with the Dead. The text is taken right out of Rock Scully's journal from the tour. Did you know that Pigpen used an organ played by Bach at the Rotterdam show? Well, you do now. Anyway, be happy with what you have! Enjoy your steamer trunks (left on shelves collecting dust). I'll enjoy the music.
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Europe '72:
The Complete Recordings -
All The Music Edition

Our Europe '72 boxed set is now officially sold out, with all 7,200 boxes now gone! We can't thank you enough for your support, for having faith in the project and taking the plunge to purchase this unprecedented release. Despite the fact that it's going to be a bit of a wait before it arrives on your door step, we are sure you'll be blown away with the results.

We are now offering the All-The-Music edition of Europe '72, which includes all of the music recorded on the tour, with each show in its own individual package, complete with its own liner notes by Dead scholars such as David Gans, Blair Jackson, Steve Silberman, Gary Lambert and others, as well as by attendees of some of the shows. You'll get 73 CDs and over 70 hours of prime Grateful Dead.

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MUSIC...

Because you dared dream this might happen one day… Because you went down to the Gypsy Woman and offered up your first-born to try to make it happen… Because there are enough passionate Dead Heads at Rhino/GD who thought it might be cool for this to happen… It’s happening! Coming in September is a gargantuan EUROPE ’72 MEGA-BOX SET containing ALL 22 SHOWS of what is arguably the greatest tour the Grateful Dead ever played, on a whopping and clearly cosmic 73 DISCS (over 70 hours of music!). Bet you didn’t see that comin’!

Really, at this point we probably don’t need to lay on too much hype about how wonderful the music is: Chances are, if you’re even considering buying a copy of this enormous box, you already know how amazing the Dead’s tour of Europe in April and May of 1972 was. To review briefly, though, the Dead’s first tour outside of North America took them to all sorts of historic and unusual venues in England, Denmark, West Germany, France, Holland and even tiny Luxembourg. Many members of the Dead “family” came along on what was really an extended working vacation that was designed to both expose the Dead to new audiences and also reward the band for their unlikely conquest of America during the preceding two years. As a hedge against the costs of the nearly two-month trip, the Dead’s label, Warner Bros., paid for the band to lug around a 16-track recorder to capture the entire tour… and we’re glad they did!

This was a band at the top of its game, still ascending in the wake of three straight hit albums — Workingman’s Dead, American Beauty and the live Grateful Dead (“Skull & Roses”). It had been a year since the lineup had gone to its single-drummer configuration, six months since Keith Godchaux had been broken in as the group’s exceptional pianist, and this marked the first tour to feature Donna Godchaux as a member of the touring band. There was a ton on new, unreleased material that came into the repertoire in the fall of ’71 (after “Skull & Roses” was out) and during the spring of ’72, including “Tennessee Jed,” “Jack Straw,” “Mexicali Blues,” “He’s Gone,” “Comes A Time,” “Ramble on Rose,” “One More Saturday Night,” “Black-Throated Wind,” “Looks Like Rain” and Pigpen’s “Chinatown Shuffle,” “The Stranger (Two Souls in Communion)” and “Mr. Charlie.” (Sadly, this was Pigpen’s final tour.) All those future classics were interspersed with songs from the aforementioned “hit” albums—such as “Uncle John’s Band,” “Brokedown Palace,” “Cumberland Blues,” “Casey Jones,” “Sugar Magnolia,” “Bertha,” “Not Fade Away,” et al — and then were topped off by loads of big jamming numbers — the Europe ’72 tour produced spectacular versions of “Dark Star,” “The Other One” “Playing in the Band,” “Truckin’,” “China Cat Sunflower” > “I Know You Rider,” “Good Lovin’,” “Lovelight” and even the early Pig chestnut “Caution.” And that’s leaving out a truckload of other tunes, too! There wasn’t a clunker show in the bunch, and many are acknowledged today as classics. No doubt you already have some favorites.

Through the years, there have been a few releases of material from the Europe tour—starting with the 3-album Europe ’72 which knocked our socks off in the fall of that year, and followed many years later by material from a pair of German shows and the fantastic 4-CD Stepping Out, culled from the group’s eight shows in England. Incredibly, though, only one full show from the tour has come out previously: the excellent 4/24 concert in Dusseldorf, Germany, released as Rockin’ the Rhein in 2004.

Until now, that is. Jeffrey Norman, who has been the primary mixer of Dead archival multi-track material for the past 15 years (Fillmore West ’69, Ladies and Gentlemen…, Rockin’ the Rhein, Nightfall of Diamonds, etc.) has spent many months toiling over the 16-track masters from the tour, and will continue working on the mixes through the Winter and Spring, employing the high-tech Plangent Processes transfer and restoration tools, trying to get every show to sound “just exactly perfect” (as Bob Weir says) for this release. You might think you’ve heard that intense “Dark Star” > “Sugar Mag” > “Caution” from Copenhagen, but I guarantee you’ve never heard it sound this alive! Mastering to HDCD specs is two-time Grammy-winning engineer David Glasser of Airshow Mastering. Needless to say, all the songs that turned up on previous Europe compilations will be appear in their proper show contexts, and in the case of songs from the Europe ’72 album, without overdubs that were added later (where possible).

So dig deep, raid the penny jar, take a weekend job at Jack-in-the-Box, beg your kindly ol’ grandma for some of your inheritance early… Yes, it’s an extravagance, but jeez, you (or your loved one) deserve it! This is way cool.

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Hal-I understand your sentiment, and as one of the disgruntled posters, i feel the need to respond. The main issue I posted about was the absolute rudeness I experienced by customer service when calling about defective discs in a set I paid $450 for. Yes, people make mistakes. i can live with that. To me, it's all in how a person handles the mistakes once they are brought to awareness. There is no excuse for the way the customer service person treated me, and I make no apologies for my post.
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Oh, and I received my sticker this week.
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Have we just lost over 1000 posts of rare and priceless wisdom? That's a shame. Fertlle gound for the conspiracy theorists for sure.
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days have found us.....once again
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It's hard to believe they would have web site problems when they haven't just opened up the ordering process to a limited edition product. ;-)
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I have noticed lately that your lightning-bolt badger avatar has gone AWOL I miss him!
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On the old deadnetcentral the phenomenon of vanished posts got so familiar it had a name: server ensuction. I thought we had moved beyond that though...
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When The Grateful Dead turned their vault over to Rhino, I was very happy, because at that time, RHINO was a front runner in producing and releasing music. Example, Emmy Lou Harris, "Pieces Of The Sky" What an awesome remastered CD. I fell in love with Rhino, then I got some of the Dead's remastered Rhino stuff like the original "Europe 72", it was like awesome, opened up sounding , heard stuff that had been there, but had never before in the Warner Brothers CD fom 91. Beautiful Packaging, I'm confused now at what is going on with this Europe 72, because this huge 73 box set and the Volume 2, which i have just gotten has me flustered. To me, it does not sound as good, but music is a subjective experience and I refuse to diss this site or Rhino Records over ondisc. Jim
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This thread disappeared,
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Sometimes there are so many weeds in the garden, maybe one feels the need to till the earth.
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Just plain weird.
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Dead.net is listing the info on the Music Only edition and letting you add it to the cart but the item hasn't officially been put into inventory yet, so it can't be ordered, even though you can go through the checkout process through the last step. So give the inventory masters time to get it into circulation before trying to order! Cheers, Laser
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Tried at 4pm eastern time, no go, at 6pm the tech request had been answered and you can complete a music only order. Cheers, Laser
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It's not gone, it's right here. Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
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I just got in the door and last checked this thread about seven hours ago. Is it true that the E72 big long thread has been deleted? Why? How? When? What the heck happened? If there was an offensive post can someone please give me an inkling as to what it was all about? i was so enjoying this big long E72 thread. Did a Predator Drone take it out? I hope it was not because we did not collectively do enough for Mother Earth?
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Thanks for showing me the light to the old thread Mr. Pid. It did seem a bit absurd to 'disappear' a thread like that.
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I dug around in the Forums hierarchy a little, but couldn't find it. Wouldn't have been the first disappearing thread though ;)
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OK you guys, listen to the quality of the first download. This is heaven.
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on the main page 1. click on store 2. on the right click on the picture of Jerry playing guitar with his head bent down "biggest releas ever...' 3. Now you see E72 image & info click on 'more' in red font Now you are at the "big Long E72 Thread" Party on Wayne, Party On Garth.
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Holy S#%*! It’s the COMPLETE Europe ’72 Box! On Over 60 Discs! Just search for "Holy" (or "S#%*!") by typing it into the Search box on the left sidebar on the home page and choose the first link of the search results. Cheers, Laser
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OMG this sounds so good! Been listening all day. CANNOT wait for more.
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can still be found here..... http://www.dead.net/features/release-info/holy-s-it-s-complete-europe-7… Don't let the mystical psychedelic 72 disc version throw you off. When the 1990 Spring tour box arrives, I might actually panic.....;) (in which case I may have to ask Dead.net or BlairJ for a job, if this arrives too shortly after the 72 disc 1972 shenanigans)
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jbli spend most of my available dead time between 68 and 74 like many of you i assume but i just noticed furthur is doing something cool this tour (this may have been widely discussed in some forums but i havent seen it anywhere)... on 3/4 furthur played come together 3/5 had something (sung nicely by john k) 3/6 had maxwell's silver hammer 3/8 had oh darling there are 5 shows in NYC prior to the only furthur show i can attend this season... in fairfax va if the trend keeps up i should hear a tune from the meat of the side2 AR medley... "here comes the sun king" perhaps? i wonder if john russo will sing octopus's garden anyway they do seem to keep finding new ways to make it extra interesting (beside just laying down the great jams)
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that's another way to look at it, Mr Pid knew the answer, what else does he know??? :) spring '90 I ask please wait, man i gotta pay my dues for this one still, coz you know i'm going to buy it still ~ then i'll have some explaining to do to my other half ~ yikes!
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Back in Jan. when I was tearing out my hair and nashing my teeth etc. and hadn't heard where I stood I put my name on the music only list. Didn't hear back from them either but in a few days I received my code for the boxed set. Right on! I left San Diego Feb. 3, on a fishing trip for 14.5 days never having heard anything about my "music only" and unused codes expiring in a few days. I had decided to get the "music only" set also, but now I would be out of communications for two weeks and wondered if I would miss the boat, so to speak. We returned to SanDiego 13 days later, a day early, because we couldn't fit another fish on the boat. As we motored into the harbor I turned on my cellphone to check messages. After looking at a bunch I realized there were 350 waiting to be read. Said, "forget that" and shut off the phone. Realizing we still had half an hour before we would dock I decided I'd better start plowing thru them. What pops up? The miracle letter! Wow!!!! I look at the date and time. I have 48 minutes to order a second boxed set. I been thinking about what to do with the second boxed set that will be coming in Sept. I could put it Ebay and defray the expense of the first boxed set. I could leave it unopened sitting next to my Jerry/Giants bobble head doll, that'd be kinda cool! Or, my younger brother, who I started going to Dead concerts with back in 67/68, is turning 58 in Sept. Might be a nice birthday present. Hmmmm....so many choices. Maybe I should start a poll here. Think anyone would have an opinion? Prior to the Jan. trauma/drama I hadn't really checked this sight out very carefully. I usually came to buy music etc. for myself and presents for others. With the E72 offering I was checking in multiple times daily and started browsing around. After listening to GD radio hour posts 190 and 191 for the third time I called my brother in Oregon and said, "Groovy you have to listen to this!" Fifteen minutes later I receive a text, "thanks for the turn on, this is some waygood$#!T!!!". It was so incredibly good to hear that "sound" again. The long smokin' rambles that drew us in and lit up our lives. I feel like a kid turned loose in a candy shop. I want to say Thank You deadnet! It's a long drive from the bay area to San Diego. The last trip Winterland, Nov. 73 kept me company there and back. I go again mid Sept. Hopefully I'll be riding with E72. Thank You Again!
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That would be a pretty long post, so why don't I try to just stick to what's germane. (And yes, some day I'm going to find my "Arrogant Prick" switch and permanently weld it into the "off" position! Ideally that would produce great applause and acclaim, but whatever...) It's pretty unusual for threads around here to completely disappear, although they can often be hard to find. One approach that I find useful is the link in the Nav Stack on the left titled "All Recent Posts." This page is the quick route to threads with recent activity and is sorted in descending chronological order by last post age. There is also a handy filtering tool near the top of that page that allows you to either include or exclude items from a particular forum topic or range of topics in that list. The range can be either continuous (click on one item, shift-click on the other to define the range) or discontinuous (click on one topic, control-click on others to add to the group.) I'm not active in the Vineyard so I regularly filter for "Is None Of" and select "-- The Vineyard." That helps me keep up with what's going on around here. Of course, if all you are interested in is action in the Vineyard, then choosing "Is All Of" instead would do the trick for you. What else do I know about the Music Only release of E72C? I know that if I actually had a spare $450 I would snap this up in a heartbeat. It's a steal! I know that I can't understand why anyone would be kvetching about it at $450, box and tchotchkes included or not. This is the freaking crown jewels, and I think they could have sold out the allotment of 7200 at a price point of $720. But they were never in it for the deep green anyway, were they? Isn't that at least a part of why we're all still here? I also know that I'm not a shill for this site, GDP, Rhino or any other tentacle of WMG. I'm just another dood hanging around. Some of the local denizens have met me in person, they'll tell you. As a matter of fact, right now I'm not working for anyone. Anybody need a Java/SQL developer with deep financial services experience and a thorough understanding of markets and instruments? Buy side or sell side, I'm good either way. Hit me up. Please! Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
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leedesj It's even more fun when you notice that on the first night of tour they opened with "Come Together". The second song from the second night was "Something". Third song, third night was "Maxwell's S.H.". Fourth song, fourth night ... "Oh Darling". Any bets as to what the fifth song will be tomorrow eve? I'm looking forward to hearing "Because" this coming Sunday, and the always smile inducing "Abbey Road Medley" come next Tues. (Phil's B-day). I realize that this is a bit off topic, but I've been enjoying watching the pattern unfold and was wondering who else was. Peace
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hmmm, hadnt really considered the position in set had been incrementing too, cool and if they DONT break up the side 2 medley then i guess they'll have to go on to let it be for fairfax can you imagine phil singing the long and winding road? oh yeah... cant wait for E72 the 4/17/72 dark star (the TV from the tivoli show) was sounding mighty good on the way in to work today, recorded from the archive onto a cassette tape... like the old days
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How sweet would it be for them to bust out "When I'm 64" on Phil's Birthday??
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but anything from sgt pepper would be welcomed anyway of course they could do the beatles' "birthday" (a song that is a heck of a lot more fun to play than the trad. happy bday song) actually i think bob weir turns 64 in the fall but i may be off a year on my dad's 64th i made arrangements for the restaurant we went to... to crank "when im 64" to surprise him
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Now that's not something you see everyday! Peace
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Furthur last night at Nokia Theatre. What a great show. Hands down, the best TOO that I've heard in a long, long time. Phil sings Octopus's Garden and nails it ! Bobbys voice was good all night long, hope it's good for the whole run. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Holy S#%*! It’s the COMPLETE Europe ’72 Box! On Over 70 Discs! ????~?¤??????? The Music Never Stops ! ???????¤?~????

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Jeffrey.........please don't forsake Pigpen's organ in the mix when it's there to be heard! *~*~*~*~* Wow.....She's So Heavy coming right up?!
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I hope you put them in the big box or in a separate release. Will those TV appearances see the light of day in an official release?
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Totally non-related: just heard that Owsley Stanley (age 76) died in a car accident in Australia...
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I too just saw the story about Bear, he really started it all, his recordings will always be classics. Tragic thing, RIP. Coconut Phil, living Free.
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Phil spoke about the Bear prior to tonight's show. It was heartfelt, moving. I Want You (She's so Heavy) was great on Friday, Sat. Here Comes the Sun, and tonight Sunday, Because. Tuesday, Phil's Birthday, do they play the whole Abbey Road medley, or break it up? Warren and Blue Sky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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RIP Bear. My wife and I met him at Shoreline in the early 90's and he was a gracious and warm man who passionately brought his visions and art to the fore. He was certainly a friendly and talkative sort who enjoyed expounding on his creations. His Mars God-O-War bust sculpture in bronze struck my wife as a particularly powerful and moving piece he produced and sold (we were too poor to buy one then, but would have loved to have one). He was a one-of-a-kind person who never bent to the establishment and kept his vision true to himself. His alchemy opened a lot of minds to the infinite and oneness of it all. We'll miss ya Bear. Heaven just got a major player for the eternal party. Peace.
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If you wait long enough, the Dead will sell every note they ever played in one package. Bill Gates and the Wall St. sub-prime mortgage scammers will be the only ones to afford it.
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Is there a GDM customer service person who can help me find out about pre-paying or shifting my reservation # to a real credit card? I used my debit card on an account for which the monthly fee has spiked, and thus I really need to close the account. Times are tough, and I reserved the only way I could. I need a break, please. Thanks
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Good luck! I'm in credit card limbo myself and it's not a good place to be.. "It's got no signs or dividing line and very few rules to guide"