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All musicians steal from other musicians, as the saying goes. Members of the Dead have citied influences from Bill Monroe to Charles Ives. Share knowledge and questions here!
Grant Green?
I've read about some of the guitarists who influenced Garcia, but I've never heard anything regarding Grant Green (Grant Green "Alive!" almost sounds like a Legion of Mary jam session). I've always thought their styles sounded similar, but I'm not a musician, so I could be way off base here. Does anyone with a deeper historical and technical knowledge know if Garcia was influenced by Grant Green?
Yo Soy Boricua!
Bo Didley and Chuck Berry
Bo Didley and Chuck Berry are two grate guitarists in their own right, Jerry HAD to have been influenced by them...
"The highway is for gamblers, you'd better use your sense
Take what you have gathered from coincidence"
Me either
I've heard Grant Green get pretty worked up on studio sessions but not like he does on "Alive!" The guitarist I hear and think, "Jerry listened to this guy for sure" and copied his style, is Django Reinhardt. I do hear similarities in Green's and Garcia's attack - especially when their playing single note stuff. I'm sure Jerry heard Green somewhere along the way because he was an ardent listener of anything. My favorite Green discs are:
Grant's First Stand
The Complete Quartets w/ Sonny Clark
Idle Moments
Solid
Talkin' About!
There are at least another five to add to this list - have you heard any of these?
"From day to day, just lettin' it ride,
You get so far away from how it feels inside,
You can't let go, 'cause you're afraid to fall,
But the day may come when you can't feel at all."
Never heard of Grant Green -
Never heard of Grant Green - now I gotta check him out!I've read interviews with Vince Welnick and Weir in which they cite the piano playing of McCoy Tyner from Coltrane's band as a big influence. He's now one of my favorite players - so tastefully filling in the spaces. And after reading an interview with Phil about how hard it was to follow Miles Davis during the Bitches Brew era, I had to check that out. I must say I like Miles' cooler stuff from late 50s/early 60s, but Bitches Brew is good and weird and funky.
"Got a few wrinkles but that's OK, hang out in the breeze and they'll blow away"
Deadicated & sw fla chip
I think the single note stuff you refer to is what I'm hearing. BTW, how about Idris Mohammad's sweaty funk drumming on "Alive!"? Wow!Yeah, I've got all of the Green albums you mentioned. Outside of Garcia, Grant Green is my favorite guitarist. He might not have had the technical abilities of Wes Montgomery or George Benson, but he had soul. Outside of "Alive!" my favorite Green album is "Live At The Lighthouse." I broke out into a sweat the first time I heard Windjammer!
sw fla chip, are you the same chip from the old boards? If so, good to see you made the transition! You can't go wrong with Grant Green's late sixties-early seventies funky period.
Yo Soy Boricua!
Jazz Drummers?
Billy K. was into jazz. Does anyone know which of the drummers influenced him the most? Has he mentioned somewhere what records he used to wear out?
"From day to day, just lettin' it ride,
You get so far away from how it feels inside,
You can't let go, 'cause you're afraid to fall,
But the day may come when you can't feel at all."
Yep, same Chip
Yep, hopped over to this board - glad to see you and some of the others did too.I don't know much about jazz guitar - I know I like the CD I have of Django Reinhardt and mandolinist Stephane Grapelli (not sure I spelled either name right) at the Hot Club in Paris in the 30s, and whoever played on Billie Holiday's records. And I remember a few years back reviewing a disc by this guy named Norman Brown who I thought was pretty slick.
As for the poster who inquired about Billy K's influences, I think I recall reading somewhere that he was into Elvin Jones, the drummer for one of Coltrane's groups.
www.myspace.com/chipwithrow
"Got a few wrinkles but that's OK, hang out in the breeze and they'll blow away"
Yeah, Elvin Jones!
Thanks - I'd forgotten that they really had been focusing on Coltrane at one time. The guy who made an impression on me on a couple few Billie Holiday records was Barney Kessel. If you're familiar with the song by Julie London, "Cry Me A River", he's the one who plays that killer intro. You know Jerry's solo disc "Reflections"? I really think the Django thing is apparent there. Whataya think?
"From day to day, just lettin' it ride,
You get so far away from how it feels inside,
You can't let go, 'cause you're afraid to fall,
But the day may come when you can't feel at all."
Clarence Black?
"From day to day, just lettin' it ride,You get so far away from how it feels inside,
You can't let go, 'cause you're afraid to fall,
But the day may come when you can't feel at all."
feedback
Clarence White was a big influence on Jerry, He played guitar with the Kentucky Colonels - bluegrass, he was just a kid then and there is some other acoustic stuff of his out there. Later He played with the Byrds -check out the Eight Miles High jam on The Byrds- Untitled. Also on the Byrds Fillmore disc that came out a few years ago. Tragically he was killed when he was hit by a car while loading equipment after a gig. I believe that Tony Rice has one of his guitars and played it on the Pizza tapes.
Stephane Grapelli was a violinist not mandolinist who played with Django Reinhardt in the Quintet of The Hot Club.during 1935-1939. The quintet is essential listening. I first heard of him in an album he did with Jean Luc Ponty. Grappelli also did one with David Grissman. He had a recording career of 58 years! I just saw the group Pearl Django several weeks ago, they play in this style. There are festivals and a subculture devoted to the Quintet and their music.
The influence of The John Coltrane Quartet was huge, not just for the Dead but for all the other great San Francisco groups - Quicksilver, the Airplane, Big Brother, Country Joe. I would bet that it was the Quartet who influenced The Butterfield Blues Band on the East-West jam which in turn was a big influence on the Dead and other S.F. psychedelic bands. I think Phil mentions seeing the Quartet in Searching For The Sound.
I love Miles, Cream, JA, Quicksilver, Widespread Panic, Phish, Moe, Gov't Mule and Dexter Gordon for their jamming. But to me there are four that tower at the top, Coltrane, Hendrix the Dead and the Allman Brothers, My two most treasured boxed sets sit next to each other - Coltrane's The Classic Quartet-Complete Impulse! Studio Recordings and Fillmore West -1969 The Complete Recordings. But you have to check out Coltrane live - The Village Vanguard just soars into the stratosphere.
McCoy Tyner-piano, Elvin Jones- drums , Jimmy Garrison -bass, John Coltrane- soprano and tenor saxophone - these names and their music should be known in every household. Let the sounds of the Heavens echo and ring
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)
Walt Whitman-Song of Myself
Stephane Grapelli
Hal R:I stand corrected - I now remember a fiddle-playing friend of mine and his obsession with Stephane Grapelli.
Came across a CD recently of McCoy Tyner (and Elvin Jones, I believe) playing with a guy named Joe Henderson.
I have one Quicksilver show on an old cassette tape - I listen every now and again and am blown away. Canned Heat was another good blues band from that era.
As for the Allmans - I just read a couple of interviews, one with Greg Allman and one with Dickey Betts, and they both went on and on about how Duane had barely scratched the surface of his formidable talent before his untimely death.
I've enjoyed just about every incarnation of the Allmans since I started seeing them in the mid-90s. Their shows used to be a mainstay of my summers before I moved to Ft Myers, where we just don't get much good live music (although I'm trying to change that).
"Folk rock for groovin families!"
myspace.com/chipwithrow
chipwithrow.com
Fl>Joe>Duane
sw fla chip - I used to go to Ft. Myers Beach fairly regularly. My grandpappy used to live in Cape Coral - we'd go over to Sanibel and Captiva - I used to run on the streets and beach in Ft. Myers. Do they still have one side of the pier for family and the other for wildness?
McCoy Tyner plays a lot of piano! Were you referring to The Real McCoy? - If you were that one is indeed a keeper. A few more w/ Tyner under Henderson's name are Page One, In 'n' Out, and Inner Urge. I always like Henderson - I read somewhere that he always seems(ed) like he's(was) in the middle of a solo - apt!
When it comes to the Allman Bros., I have a soft spot. What Greg and Dickey said about
Duane's potential not even being close to realized is right on the money. The guy was 24. 24!!!
I am completely amazed every time I get a chance to listen to his every note. I've been listening to that Fillmore East Mountain Jam for 35 + years and the crushing intensity of that blues before the theme re-emerges at the end just kills me - to have been there? OMG What do you think? Has it become dated? Do you think he could have ever bettered that performance? Adios
"From day to day, just lettin' it ride,
You get so far away from how it feels inside,
You can't let go, 'cause you're afraid to fall,
But the day may come when you can't feel at all."
Allman Brothers
sw fla chip, deadicated: I have been listening to The Atlanta International Pop Festival July 3-5, 1970. It cooks. It is a must have. There have been so many great releases in the past 10 years of ABB live in its first incarnation.
This band has had five of my favorite guitar players as members, Duane, Dickie, Jimmy Herring, Warren Haynes and Derrick Trucks, plus the two drummers like you know who and great bass players And Greg's voice and keyboard and Chuck Leavell.
I saw the current band, and the Dead and Robert Hunter at the Gorge here in Washington 3 years ago. Very nice, big smiles all around.
Deadicated - I enjoy seeing your music choices,
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)
Walt Whitman-Song of Myself
Mountain Jam
Deadicated - I teach high school journalism in Cape Coral. We live across the river near downtown Ft Myers. Spend a lot of time on the beach - have some friends (the guy who did my CD cover and his wife) who just moved there. No wilderness near the pier anymore, but a nice county park at the tip of that end of the island. My buddy and I just went over to Sanibel on his boat the other day - so many dolphins jumping around we stopped counting.When my brother was living with my parents and I was just out of college, we would make plans to meet according to the Mountain Jam on Eat A Peach: "Put on Mountain Jam - I'll be at your place by the time it's over."
Somewhere in the vast confusion that is my tape collection, I have Hornsby scat singing "First There Is a Mountain" and turning it into quite a jam.
I could go on and on about the Allmans as well. I love their versions of "Soul Shine" (with Warren singing, I believe) and their acoustic versions of "Goin Down the Road" and "Come In My Kitchen."
"Folk rock for groovin families!"
myspace.com/chipwithrow
chipwithrow.com
Jesse Fuller
If you have not heard of him (or heard him) you should go buy the album "The Lone Cat Sings and Plays Jazz, Folk Songs, Spirituals and Blues" today.
Jesse was a major influence on, not only The Dead, but also Dylan (and I'm sure many more). He is the guy that wrote "Beat It On Down The Line" and "Monkey and the Engineer".
The liner notes of "The Lone Cat" tell a good story about how he grew up (he made all his own instruments) and his travels (he never made any money).
In my opinion, music would not be what it is today without Jesse Fuller... he was an amazing musician and songwriter that does not get the credit he deserves.
Check out this YouTube Video of him playing "San Francisco Bay Blues"... a song you may have heard Dylan cover:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rmVVxhYlp2Y
Check out all his homemade instruments... they are amazing!
Stop a stranger and shake their hand!
Influence on Mr. Lesh
He comes up in a great new book by Alex Ross, "The Rest is Noise." This is a history of modern (i.e., post-Romantic) classical music. Richard Strauss, Mahler, Schoenberg and the Second Viennese School, atonality, Shostakovich, Barber, Berio, etc. Evidently Phil listened to Mahler's 6th Symphony at high volume while tripping out. Had a near-religious experience. I wonder which recording. If this was in the 60s, there weren't many Mahler recordings around. Bernstein/New York Philharmonic, perhaps?
If you have any interest in classical music and history in general, this is a fascinating book.
Grisman headlining inaugural Chicago Bluegrass&Blues Fest 11/22
What's up guys, I just wanted to give everyone a heads up about the inaugural Chicago Bluegrass & Blues festival, this 11/22 at the historic Congress Theater, all benefiting the Saving Tiny Hearts Societies fight against the country's most common birth defect.
www.cbgbfestival.com
The first 10 folks that hit me up at michael.raspatello@gmail.com will get a pair of tickets mailed to them. We're excited for you to help us spread the word about this righteous endeavor
Michael Raspatello
Beatles/Dylan
seems I remember the Grateful Dead were all into the Beatles in the early '60's. A bus load went to see them @ the Cow Palace & I'm sure I've heard Dylan influenced them-who didn't he influence? (well, there might be a few) love yall, Gypsy Cowgirl
Dead - Beatles
GC Have you been reading The Electric Koolaid Acid Test again? If you love "The Merry Pranksters Welcome the Beatles" story, I know it's a stretch, but you might love the third installment of Anne Rice's Vampire Lestat series, The Queen of the Damned, where Lestat is the headliner at a concert that has the same imagery created by Wolfe when he leads you from the bus to the Cow Palace and the aftermath. It has all the pandemonium and chaos that Wolfe's conveys so palpably. You might want to read the first two, too - three really cool books.
"Where does the time go?"
Hey Deadicated
Howdy-Deadicated-haven't been reading the EKAT again, but maybe I should. When I get a chance I'll look up this book. Thanks. I was too young (or so thought my parental units) to go to the Cow Palace (cried with my neighbor friend) But, got to go hear the Beatles @ Candlestick Park (still have the ticket!) xoxoxo Gypsy Cowgirl
My friend Matt named his dog Django
All you have to do is listen to any Django Rhinehart (sp?) music and you hear Garcia's licks. That's one of the reasons my friend Matt named one of his dogs, Django. He named the other Gibson. Back in the day Bo Diddley opened for the Dead. At the old Academy of Music on 14th St. in Manhattan in spring of 1972. Bo Diddley opened for Jerry/Merle band on a boat trip leaving from Battery Park called Pirates Ball. It was a great show and Hell's Angel's ran the security and also handed out nitrous balloons with the High Times logo on them.
this thread got buried in the past
maybe it shouldn't have. You decide...
The Butterfield Blues Band…
The Butterfield Blues Band when they did their SF runs in '66..
BSNL
interviews with Vince Welnick and Weir in which they cite the piano playing of McCoy Tyner from Coltrane's band as a big influence. He's now one of my favorite players - so tastefully filling in the spaces. http://wikians.org/how-to-check-data-balance-in-bsnl/ And after reading an interview with Phil about how hard it was to follow Miles Davis during the Bitches Brew era, I had to check that out.
Doc Watson
I have recently gotten into doc Watson and old time/ folk / bluegrass and it's amazing how much it influenced Jerry covers and original songs
The Butterfield Blues Band…
The Butterfield Blues Band when they did their SF runs in '66.
which reminds me
if there is anyone on the premises who has not heard East-West, fix that now.
Merle Haggard
The Dead's cover of Mama Tried ( maybe the best country song ever written. Or Pancho and Lefty?) turned me onto Haggard and his jaw dropping early band. Also, he introduced another great song in 1969 with the title Workin' Man's blues. We know what we got the next year.
Greenhouse CBD Gummies Reviews ? Cost, Side Effects
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Butterfly Blues
i agree Butterfield Blues and their 66 tour really Influenced.
Jerry was raving about…
Jerry was raving about Bloomfield in the guitar shop he (Jerry) worked at in Menlo Park, Ca in '65. At that point Bloomers wasn't a certified member of the Butterfield band. Elvin was the original lead guitarist. When they came to S.F. the first time to play he was excited that Bloomfield would be playing with Butterfield's band.