Grateful Dead

you will always be the "tibet dude" to me, brother. YOU, are the perfect example of why I love deadheads. thankx for the understanding. In my own little way, I've been giving this Tibet thang A LOT of thought... so for getting into a "discussion" sake, let's start with a little history... bear with me now, I ain't never had too much "good" formal education, I learned the lessons of life on the road and my 1/2 a semester of college was spent on tour. and so some of the exact dates and shit might be off... Tibet was sometimes a separate, independant nation and sometimes a conquered vassal state throughout the time period 1500 years ago and before... that means, like from the start of time, as far as I can know. for most of the earliest times of known human history ("why the fuck is it HIStory and not HERstory" grumbles my old lady) to the early 1700s or so, I gotta say 1700 hundreds, cause i confuse myself if I say yhe 16th century, or is it the 15th?? fuck it, the 1700's the Mongols usually controlled Tibet. Who remembers the classic line in Bill and Ted's EXCELLENT adventure? excuse me Mrs. Old lady, but when did the Mongols rule China?? (I digress) but anyways, there were revolutions, uprisings, invasions, insurrections, general mayhem, assassinations, all of the usual historical misbehavior like everywhere else in the world during those thousand years or so. because of this earliest history, (that we know) one could change the argument to ask is Tibet independent, or part of Mongolia? I talked to some cool folks from Mongolia who have that kind of thinking. so, in like 1705, the Mongols, with the blessings of the Chinese imperial dynasty, invaded Tibet and took it over, deposing the Dalai Llama from back then. as life and HERstory are IRONIC and totally fucked up, another Mongol group then kicked them other Mongols out and took the place over again, and the first group of Mongols asked the Chinese emperor for help kicking out the new dudes who were also Mongols. Meanwhile, nobody really gives a shit about the tibetans. From like 1723 to 1727 (I cheated, I looked that one up) there was civil war in Tibet, and then the Qing emperor installed governors (read: dictators) in Lhaasa. Round this time, seems to me to be when the original disagreement over whether Tibet is a province or not began. this is not a new issue at all, and it only gets more fucked up. Some say that they were provincial governors, some say that they were ambassadors, some might say military dictators... Regardless, there WAS a Chinese military presence there "keeping order". fear of more Mongols, trying to start a buffer, whatever the justifications might have been, Tibet, was under control by an outside power, but, shit, they had been that way already. remember the Mongols. ever since the middle of the 1750s , the folks that replaced the council of ministers has his powers that were, were described differently by the Chinese and the Tibetans. So the disagreement between them about that has been going on for a long, long time... Most folks these days don't know that In 1788 the Nepalese invaded and took over Lhasa, and the Tibetans THEMSELVES asked the Chinese to help kick them rabble rousers out, which the Qing emperor did. Quing, then for the next 100 - 125 years, China basically defined the government and the selection process for officials to politically administer Tibet. who is doing the math?? what year are we up to now?? did that make it a province? A chinese vassal state? Or still an independent nation? I dunno, opinions vary. don't matter, it happened. and now, of course, the imperialistic powers (read dead WHITE people) just had to get involved. What was going on at the end of the 1800's?? well, England had just gotten their ass kicked out of OUR colonies, and they might have been looking round for new folks to tax and not represent, maybe they just liked the Tibet weather? or was it for ALL of the tea in China?? ahhh, who was controlling Singaporte, Hong Kong, etc etc. not to mention those really, bad bad, Opium Wars and the harshness of the Brits in those days. (sorry Badger) So like in 1904, the British invaded Tibet, occupied Lhasa, drove out the Dalia Llama, and made it part of the British empire. (this wasn't no fucking British music invasion with "beatles" this was a "beating" invasion with Brittish soldiers shotting people and hitting them on the head and what the fuck was that thing called, oh yeah, bayonets. After widespread hue and cry, they penned a treaty (which some believe to have been largely propaganda) to permit Tibet to remain autonomous, but nominally under British control. In 1905 the Brits "let" the Dalai Llama return. In the meantime, the Qing emperor in China was pretty alarmed and could not sit still, since China certainly considered Tibet, if not a province, then a very closely allied vassal state. so they invaded back, and kicked out the Brits, over the period of 1908 - 1911. (I looked that one up, too) Lots of stuff happened real, real quickly after that, starting with a treaty between Mongolia and Tibet which was disputed and ending with a British effort to divide Tibet into an autonomous 'Inner Tibet' and an outer province under the rule of China. Folks, keep in mind that the Chinese revolution is still long off, and Mao himself was just a boy. The Chinese government later totally disagreed with this original 'treaty' , since it slyly, ever so slyly, switched a bunch of land to British-controlled India, which pissed them Chinese rulers, and probably the Tibetans in the area, off no end. The Brits actually published books that clearly stated that the treaty was never officially "ratified", but in 1938 they recalled all copies and republished the books, now claiming that the treaties were valid. what's that thang about the winners writing history. oops, sorry, HERstory. What is that shit about the winners (re)writing history? Anyways, China was real busy with problems of their own from 1915 - 1945, like the rise of the RED Communists, overthrow of government, exile on Main Street of the Last Emporer, exporting only bad Chinese recipes, invasion by the Japanese with millions and millions of casualties, the rape of Nanking, etc. The Chinese around this time always said during this period that Tibet was their province, but were never strong enough to invade and take it over again. too busy fighting the Japanese, Manchuquo, and all that was on their agenda. What else was going on between 1914 - 1945?? what else happened, raise your hands please, don't call out in class. Yes, you get a gold star, 2 world wars. Wasn't it the Chinese who invented gunpowder? and they had it used against them by the Brits. gotta keep them high tech secrets secret... oh yeah, I remember, it was western folks who usually get the idears of how to use a technology not for shooting off fireworks, but for shooting people.... (I digress again) meanwhile, the Briish have always supported Tibet being an independent nation based on the 1914 treaty of Simla, but cynical suits claim that has more to do with them illegally seizing Chinese territory for the British empire than any concerns for the Tibetan people.... so, for the past 70 years or so, China has never stopped claiming that Tibet was part of China, and Tibet has always claimed it is an independent nation, independent not only from China, but from Mongolia and the British Empire... China has always been totally paranoid about protecting the inner kingdom from external barbarians. Who built the Grate Wall?? (who got laid on the Grate wWall??!!) In more recent years, since Mao and his crew took over, did the Chinese get more fucking paranoid?? Where is my little red book? they had border skirmishes with the USSR which were never completely or accurately reported by either side; (for the youngins, all of those countries like "Wherethefuckisitstan" were under the Soviet, red rules. Another, modern example was when China atempted to deal an "uppity" Vietnam a border lesson, when Vietnam seemed to be gloating too much about their victory against the good ol'e US of A. -- but China actually ended up taking heavy losses on that one. The Chinese also had a brief war with India (look up these dates yourself, folks, I'm getting sleepy) the war with India was about who owned the highest real estate. All during history, wars have been won according to who owned the high ground. (not who was "high" on the ground) Can't get any higher than Tibet, folks. The Chinese army moved into Tibet without a great deal of world protest in 1950. Shortly thereafter, the Dali Lama went into exile and Tibet has asserted their independance. The question is: but what, these daze are the Tibetans really trying to be independant for?? Devout Tibetans believe their Dalai Lama to be a living, enlightened, vessel of God, or more accurately that Buddha (Hal R, please help me here) himself, chose the incarnation of one of their youth by touching his spirit. Tibetan elders perform rituals until it is beyond a doubt that the proposed child is enlightened and is indeed the Dalai llama. So it is Buddha, who chooses the Dalai llama, BUT (big BUT) not too long ago, as I heard, in what some Chinese scholors consider a brilliant (read: crafty) move, while others consider it to have been totally fucked up and totally fucking stupid, the Chinese attempted to become involved in the dalii lama selection process, explaining that "their" candidate would be chosen as the next Dalai llama based on education, test scores (loud sheesh!!) and of course, his willingness to embrace Mother China. You do not hear too much abouth that kind of totally fucked up shit on frigging CNN. So, what is going on now is not a fucking lame ass protest about democracy, as our good ol'e boy GW would have you believe. it is indeed, in my most humble of Humbolt opinions, a protest that seeking religious freedom from China. So here we are today, and the fact is, China owns Tibet, militarily. Is it the continued paranoia of Maoism that makes it so unbearable for the Chinese government to allow a religious sect to live in their midst? -- (who are the gorrillas??) even when the very leader of the religious sect, has called for only civil disobedience and non-violence lest he quit his post-- though I did see some VDO of robe clad monks kicking shit around, so they, even tehy are not above not following the Dalai Lllama it seems. OR, as I am cynical enough to believe, that VDO was set up and 'fake monks" were in it. A whole bunch of monks, who finally got contact with some 'western' media have claimed they were confined and had nothing to do with and certainly did not support any violence... China could get brownie points from the UN and other countries, if they just let the Dalai lama back into Tibet without punishment or prison of any kind and they would really win world favor, if they allowed the Tibetans to simply be able practice their two thousand years + of Buddhism without having a Chinese implant who did well on fucking tests be declared the next incarnation of the Buddha. (that may have only been a governemnet idea, and it certainly never happened since the current Dali llama is still alive... Sage leaders in China realize that this shit going on in Tibet and the neighboring areas with lots of Tibetan folks might spark more internal revolt all over China for greater freedoms, including and especially religious freedoms... Canceling or boycotting the Olympics would send world peace back into the Cold War era, regarding foreign relations with China. When was it, in 1976 that we didn't go to the olympics because of the Soviet Union. China has greater problems ahead as well regarding religious freedom and violence. Not to mingle issues here agian, but those cock suckers in Al Qaeda has been reported to have established a "beach head" with the millions and millions of Chinese Muslims (and those folks are also pretty bummed out and angry about their own lack of religious freedom) so the whole thang is a fucking pandora's box or jack in the box or whatever, it's an accident waiting to happen. OK, there is a test on Monday. I had one more thing in mind that I wanted to say, which I have totally spaced on... but anyway, HERstory is a fucked up thang, and she does, unfortunately, repeat herself. now where did I put that god damn lighter??!! ( -; love and peace.

Hey there Granfalloon ,,no appology needed, now you know,, this site can be a bit confusing sometimes ... it took me a while to figure it out and i am still learning , too ..so don`t feel bad ... but yes one topic in one forum not all over the place, please,,, like i said now you know ,, .... I to would like to see a free tibet and my sympathy for the folks over there,,, they need their peace,, like everyone else ... good luck with your mission !! take care ... peace ....

i got hit with the ghana scam too. how dumb do they think we are that we'll actually fall for that?! anyway, i'm the "tibet dude" and wanted to apologize for gumming up the works. i was just trying to help out and got a bit carried away. thanks for the advice CCj, i'm still learning my way around the forums and haven't yet figured out how everything works. "Unusual travel suggestions are dancing lessons from God" ... ... the Books of Bokonon

of course I was never one to sit still (or follow my own advice) ... so I tried to reply back to the ghana scam spammer; and... isn't it interesting that nelly does 'not' accept private messages. 'nuff said. watch out people. love and peace

thanks, iknowyourider; the warning should be more clear for our family. by the by, did EVERYONE get that spam, from the Ghana scam artist? those kind of bullshit things pop up all over, maybe to the 'un-enlightened' they may fall for it. I think a warning somewhere would be appropriate, and a simple, 'use the block this user' would be the advice. EVERYONE knows, right? NEVER NEVER NEVER reply or give ANY personal information over the net. no bank account numbers no birth dates, no social security numbers. never reply to web sites that even resemble your bank's website. NEVER NEVER NEVER, please. do not fall for there tricks. no bank ever asks for that shit online. I have met (unfortunately) some of these scammers in person, and they realy think people are so fucking stupid that sure, here is my personal information, and I am sure the bank in Nigeria (or Ghana, or France, or LA, or wherever) will send me millions of dollars that we can share. scammer assholes, take a look at my fucking passport, you see that my birthday is NOT fucking YESTERDAY!!! ************************************* not to mingle things here, and the tibet dude is NOT the same as the scam artists who sent that bullshit private message, and I certainly respect the Tibet thing and feel for those people, and would love to see a free tibet like everyone else... so, hows about a 'Save Tibet' topic, then that dude who posts his stuff can do so there, for me, on crappy net connections, it is a bit frustrating to have to waste time (and money) sorting through those again and again in each and every thread I try to catch up on. and then, people who wish to 'engage in a discussion' about Tibet will know where to go. naturally, tibet dude, please continue to post that stuff here in this thread since this is an open space, but please, not all over the board, it makes the message annoying to me, rather than feel sympathy or empathy or motivate me to actually 'do' something to 'help' it bums me out. pretty please with sugar on top. hmmm, coming up with a new idear for a game show: 'Name that Spam!!' love and peace. joe

There's Scammer's running rampant in these parts. Never seen anything like it. PEACE

damn internet, got logged in, and bumped off before the post could show up... so, I gotta do this fast, this time. I ran into a Korean deadhead dude in my recent travels, and we were talkin, shooting the shit... his English is a little shakey, and my Korean language skills are only good for ordering beer. (ok, I DO have priorities) long story short, he reaches into his back pack, and pulls out a tattered, coffee stained, printed copy of an interview with Garcia, and he had filled the margins in with Hungul trying to translate it / understand it. (he had a bag full of dead related mag issues, and stuff like that) I read through most of the interview, and low and behold, whose name is at the end, copyright by Mary E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so, my question is, dear marye, where is the audio tape of that interview, and may I please? pretty please with sugar on top, get a copy?? or, is it possible for you to upload it onto some server of audio files so EVERYONE can enjoy it? like archive dot org?? pretty please with sugar on top!!! next week in Bangers the net should be more steady. I would love to 'hear' Jerry in that interview. if I tell you I am going deaf, (true, but who isn't after dancing in front of the WALL on numerous tours?) would it motivate you to put it on the net sooner? love and peace.

When I first met my girlfriend (well, she wasn't my girlfriend yet, but you get the idea), she inquired about the SYF sticker on the back of my car. I told her what it represented and her response was something akin to "Oh. That's nice." Her preferred music at the time ran toward Eminem and Metallica, both of which represent areas of music which, as much as I've tried, I just don't get. Fast-forward to today, when we're at home in the evening and have Sirius radio on. From the corner of my eye, I have seen her quietly rocking out to Sugar Magnolia on more than one occasion, told me that Jerry's rendition of Lazy River Road is beautiful, and can identify the Dead from anything else playing. All this to say, if your girlfriend, boyfriend, husband, wife, partner, paramour or concubine doesn't dig the music, just give them a little time. Everyone comes around sooner or later. Mike "Goodbye, Mama and Papa, Goodbye, Jack and Jill The grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter, Either side of the hill" islandmyk@yahoo.com

Had just been wondering where you'd gotten too. Grate to see you again!********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens

thanks folks. looks like next week I will be heading back to the big bad city of Bangkok to sort some thangs out and hustle up some more cash from ex-pat yuppie suits. incidentally, marye, there are 3 seasons. getting HOT! http://www.simply-thai.com/Thailand_page_Seasons.htm and GRTUD, you want your 'rug' back??!! I thought you gave up wearing that rag of a toupee long ago. (yuk yuk yuk) ( -: Happy Easter to all!! love and peace.