Forums
Here and there in the forums people are expressing their enthusiasm for particular candidates in the upcoming U.S. elections, while others are saying Enough Already, We Don't Want To Hear About It.
So, this is the right place to discuss your favorites (or non-favorites) and other matters relevant to the campaign. If you're not into it, skip this topic!
And as for all you non-U.S. residents, if you want a similar topic for what's going on in your part of the world, speak up and I'll start it. Thanks!
politician training
...looks like you need to learn to cry on demand to get more votes Joe!
Oh me of little faith...
Anyone else here concerned that America might be too backwards to elect either a woman or a black man as president?I'm anxious to get the republicans out of the white house for a while, but I fear that if the Democrats end up with Hillary or Obama - we will have to face the specter of more republicans....
I don't trust my country to do the right thing in an election... every time that I've gotten excited about a candidate in the past, I've ended up disappointed. And even though I live in liberal California, I know plenty of CA rednecks who are sexist and racist enough to avoid Hillary and Obama like the plague...
I hope my gut feeling is wrong.
Liberal California?
Home of Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan?
If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite.
William Blake
in fairness...
they were from SOUTHERN California, and about the only liberals in SoCal are connected to the colleges, the entertainment biz, etc. This is a slight exaggeration but speaking as one born and raised there, more of my family are Republicans than not.
The Bay Area is different and I'm much more at home here; indeed about the time Bush launched the Iraq invasion there was semi-facetious talk about the nine Bay Area counties just seceding. But we all know how that turned out the last time around.
neddles
yes, indeed, neddles; I have considered what you say. quite true in some ways, look at Mondale and Ferraro-- even though that was quite a while back.
badger, I CAN cry on demand. didn't you know ONE of the hidden meanings of the CC moniker is 'Capriciously Crying"??
a skill I developed long ago, though it never got me out of any speeding tickets, just garnered me odd looks from the highway patrol. sigh.
peace.
Dead On
Mr. PID & Sunshine-daydream! And badger, you're no fool either! What are you guys doing, the next 4 years (or so)?
"If the forms of this world die, which is more real, the me that dies or the me that's infinite? Can I trust my habitual mind, or do I need to learn to look beneath those things?"
I know about the Northern California/ Southern California Divide
But just couldn't help responding to the California liberal remark. We have a divide in Washington, we call the Cascade Curtain. West is liberal and east generally conservative, though there are some Democrats in our statehouse from Spokane and we just elected a liberal woman mayor here. But most of the eastside here is pretty conservative to put it mildly.
If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite.
William Blake
Open Calendar
Hal, you and marye need to keep your calendars open, as well. We may not accomplish much, but can you imagine the music diversity in the elevators? Our ticket slogan, "Messing with minds, one at a time!"
"If the forms of this world die, which is more real, the me that dies or the me that's infinite? Can I trust my habitual mind, or do I need to learn to look beneath those things?"
The 2008 ticket
All right, I would get involved in the CCJoe, GRTUD ticket as long as I could be in charge of the inauguration parties.
If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite.
William Blake
Props for the Pidster
Hey now, thank you very kindly, GRTUD. And exactly how long will it be before Golden Road slams me for attempting to defy the whims of the Great Magnet?
Unless I greatly misunderstand things, I suspect that Messrs Daydream and Badger may suffer from a residency issue. I don't have that particular problem, but (and I'm sure that this will come as a shock to some of you) I probably have one or two items in the unejectable baggage of my past that would probably be showstoppers. But it is fun to consider an environment where a person's current issues and ideals mattered more than any past, indiscretions, shall we say.
As for the elevator music, screw that! Full sound reinforcement stacks on the roof of the White House, baby, patched directly into the Vault. Flood the mall!!!!
And how about this for a slogan: Acid rain? We're on it!
Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
"Two" Party System
I've passed your recent remarks on to "him", Mr. Pid. (GRTUD shudders) Now you've done it... I hope you're not allergic to feathers (or electricity). There are some things that even a game of golf cannot undo. I do like the slogan, though.
"If the forms of this world die, which is more real, the me that dies or the me that's infinite? Can I trust my habitual mind, or do I need to learn to look beneath those things?"
Pending retribution
I'm okay with electricity, in small doses (wink, wink) and as for feathers, as long as tar isn't involved I'm probably good there as well. After all, golf balls were once made out of feathers. But thanks for the "heads up."
Glad you liked the slogan, I do like to keep 'em guessing. Also glad you liked my ideas. To paraphrase Chico in The Cocoanuts, I got lots of 'em. Perhaps I'll regurgitate another long-winded diatribe here before too long, so, fair warning to all in deadnetland.
Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
A True Prankster show at its Best!
Mayhem with PEACE at heart is a beautiful thing!
Thank you kindly
residency issues
..no problem
the new prez can issue us with green cards..or, even better, green blotters :-)
Nomination
I nominate iknowurider for head of the newly formed department of Common Sense for her question regarding the Electoral College (it might be awhile before we can find staffing though). In that regard, what happens when a candidate from an outside party gets elected to the office of President (even though it has happened, yet)?I also asked iknowurider if she'd sing the National Anthem at our White House party that Hal is planning. Golden Road is planning to do a "light show" for us. Things are coming together folks!
"If the forms of this world die, which is more real, the me that dies or the me that's infinite? Can I trust my habitual mind, or do I need to learn to look beneath those things?"
Count me in
if can help with "things coming together" in any way! How 'bout translator for functions of state, press releases, etc?**********************************
Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live.
Samuel Clemens
Thanks for the Nomination GRTUD.. Too Kind
I'm sure its only bc I have insider information. hehe (Now I'm humming the theme to Pinky & The Brain")
I'd be honored to Grace everyone with my performance. How about I dress up really cool and lip sync to Jimi's SSB? I could even whip out Kramer's Guitar Hero, [Guitar]. We could have Golden Roads' Light show and then a little pyro thrown in for Pizzazz
Tiger Lilly could coordinate the event. We'll knock the socks off of some good ol' American Folks!
PEACE
Critical Thinking Scoring Rubric
One of my high-school teaching colleagues said G.W. came to mind when looking at the least favorable end of a recently perused rubric.
Consistently does all or almost all of the following:
Offers biased interpretations of evidence, statements, graphics, questions, information, or the points of view of others.
Fails to identify or hastily dismisses strong, relevant counter-arguments.
Ignores or superficially evaluates obvious alternative points of view.
Argues using fallacious or irrelevant reasons, and unwarranted claims.
Does not justify results or procedures, nor explain reasons.
Regardless of the evidence or reasons, maintains or defends views based on self-interest or preconceptions.
Exhibits close-mindedness or hostility to reason.
"From day to day, just lettin' it ride,
You get so far away from how it feels inside,
You can't let go, 'cause you're afraid to fall,
But the day may come when you can't feel at all."
Roles and responsibilites
Well, well, well, I can tell that I'm looking forward to what will undoubtedly be your very stirring rendition, iknowurider. Of course, you'll have to do an encore of US Blues.
But you do need to keep up here. Hal is in charge of organizing the festivities. I'm hoping that he is an avid student of Mr. Graham (Bill, not Benjamin) in this regard. Maybe we should consider the creation of cabinet level post, Secretary of Events? Might you be up for that, Hal? I mean, why limit yourself to just the inauguration?
Which, of course leaves us with the role for Tiger Lilly. I'm going to try to tread lightly here, as I had an eight year relationship with a Lil who was a Tiger, at least as the Chinese reckon such things (a long and sad tale that does have a Dead angle but is waaaaaayyyy off topic) so I'm thinking she should be in charge of handling arrangements for the contingent of foreign dignitaries. I would imagine this role might involve her holding a clipboard of green blotters...
Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
"Giving to the poor enables them to be poorer?"
Er ... who are "the poor"?
Does the measly $1500 given to me by the Pell Grant program so that I could attend Stanford and subsequently earn a living count as "giving to the poor?"
can I do the gardening
wild arrangements, unruly lawns, organic veggies, wildlife corners and herbal supplements will be supplied. Yeah and why should it be the WHITE HOUSE anyway..lets get some colour (oops color) on those walls
Paradigm shift
Brilliant observation, badger.
Let's repaint it as the Tie Dye House.
Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
Money for Education!!!
As long as that money is distributed fairly. Enabling the poor is when one works or lives near PROJECT HOUSING or even lives in THE PROJECTS, and witnesses these people leaving there doors open and furnaces running in the dead of winter or air conditioners running with the doors open in the summer. VERY FRUSTRATING!!!!!! We have to pay our fuel bills and theres. Just venting! Peace!!
Tiger Lilly
You will coordinate all travel arrangements for our foreign guests, including baggage claims (in addition to interpreter, of course).Pid, you beat me to that line about the Big House (opps, that could be misconstrued) er, I mean, Fun House!
"If the forms of this world die, which is more real, the me that dies or the me that's infinite? Can I trust my habitual mind, or do I need to learn to look beneath those things?"
just a minute..
where does Dr Evil fit into all this? I think we should be told before it is too late..
humm fredom is not free....
i have a story since this thread is allowing freedom of speech.one day me and my sis were drivin down the road listining to music smoking ciggarettes,and protesters on the corner 'stop the war,impeech bush.i turned to her and said if we were in another country our faces would be covered we wouldnt be smoking ciggarettes,[you cannott smoke within 20 ft of abuilding and you cant smoke w/your kids in the car]?????and if we werent over their thess mf's would be on our soil and we would be walking around w/wepons.just to drive down the street.their was no draft to my knowledge.people choose to serve our country.{maybe they thaught they wouldnt end up really doing what they took and oath for?i have a question what does the colars of our flag mean?and maybe they should be changed.as far as this country being led by a wmn,i dont think we are ready for that,whats this shit on a 'BLACK' presidant doesnt he bleed red.? i say in one way or the other may god see it fit to whomever needs to step up to the plate,and we always need changes,it would be nice to have no worrys on issues that fuck our society up at large.but however thats not the case.i stay right w/the creator and live a life of helping others and being kind{maybe mouthy at times],but for the most part a citizen of the united states,who is aloud to live freely as best as one can to be a productable person in this lifes journey to the best of my ability.i will vote,and that is a privite issue on who i choose may the best man win.GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!land of the not so free anymore....
humm fredom is not free....
i have a story since this thread is allowing freedom of speech.one day me and my sis were drivin down the road listining to music smoking ciggarettes,and protesters on the corner 'stop the war,impeech bush.i turned to her and said if we were in another country our faces would be covered we wouldnt be smoking ciggarettes,[you cannott smoke within 20 ft of abuilding and you cant smoke w/your kids in the car]?????and if we werent over their thess mf's would be on our soil and we would be walking around w/wepons.just to drive down the street.their was no draft to my knowledge.people choose to serve our country.{maybe they thaught they wouldnt end up really doing what they took and oath for?i have a question what does the colars of our flag mean?and maybe they should be changed.as far as this country being led by a wmn,i dont think we are ready for that,whats this shit on a 'BLACK' presidant doesnt he bleed red.? i say in one way or the other may god see it fit to whomever needs to step up to the plate,and we always need changes,it would be nice to have no worrys on issues that fuck our society up at large.but however thats not the case.i stay right w/the creator and live a life of helping others and being kind{maybe mouthy at times],but for the most part a citizen of the united states,who is aloud to live freely as best as one can to be a productable person in this lifes journey to the best of my ability.i will vote,and that is a privite issue on who i choose may the best man win.GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!land of the not so free anymore....
Giving vs. Investing
I think another way of assessing Steve-O's frustration goes like this:
Social systems that help people up to self-sufficiency are good and worthwhile investments that benefit everyone. Social systems that keep people down by enabling dependence are bad investments that ultimately benefit no one.
There needs to be an element of personal incentive left in these programs, so that they can provide a path to help people get on track, but not provide enough to keep them on track in and of themselves.
Oh, and Barbara? You got $1500 AND you got to go to Stanford? Congratulations, you're a very lucky person. That's a much better deal than I ever got, and I'm glad to see that the $1500 investment in you that we all contributed to is paying off.
Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
Kill the poor?
Any system will be exploited by some people; cheating on welfare, fiddling tax returns, stealing pension funds, breaking into concerts without tickets! That does not necessarily mean that the system should be scrapped or is necessarily wrong. The problem we have is that making any system perfect costs too much in terms of cash and loss of individual freedom.
But it’s always the poor who get the blame! If you are worried about your tax dollars being misused then why not look at what you are paying to sustain the industrial-military complex that runs our societies! I would suggest that for every dollar misappropriated by the poor, a thousand are stolen from you by the rich. But since everyone wants to be rich and successful, the sins of the wealthy are forgiven quicker than those of the poor!
Back to the jokes I think.
Here! Here!
(GR stands and applauds)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenhower#Post-presidency
On January 17, 1961, Eisenhower gave his final televised Address to the Nation from the Oval Office.[22] In his farewell speech to the nation, Eisenhower raised the issue of the Cold War and role of the U.S. armed forces. He described the Cold War saying: "We face a hostile ideology global in scope, atheistic in character, ruthless in purpose and insidious in method..." and warned about what he saw as unjustified government spending proposals and continued with a warning that "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex... Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
This from a 5 star General that became President of the United States. Wow...
"All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him."
Endorsements
John Kerry endorsed Obama over his 2004 running mate Edwards.....
Didn't Bill & Hillary Clinton endorse Kerry in 2004? I think Bill secretly despises Hillary and the Democrats will politely start to distance themselves from Hillary and side with Barack. Poor Bill is between a rock and a hard place.
Also nice to see my union, the SEIU is stepping up to the plate as well as the Culinary Workers Union to endorse Obama.
hmmm
does Bill secretly hate Hillary?
whatever.
but I think he LOVES the idea of a longer Clinton legacy in the White House more than anything, that and the fact that she would make history by being the first woman.
If Hillary is the rock, Monica was in a hard place. ( -;
ok, I will not start with the cigar jokes.
but back on OUR topic, I would like to ask gypsysoul to be my 'Co-President' in the formerly known as the White House; future Tie Dye House.
no VICES here. ( -:
peace.
Poll Madness
I love the "soft support" line...
"All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him."
No, empower the poor
Provide them with the tools to improve their own lives, and a meaningful reason to use them. Enable their ability to participate and remove incentives to fail.
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in blaming the economically challenged for their condition, and I'm certainly not here as an apologist for the likes of Cheney and his Hallliburton pals. As far as I'm concerned, they really ought to be strung up by their thumbs. And Ken Lay got off easy dying before he spent a day in prison. I was hoping he'd live to be 100 in someplace more live Leavenworth than Allenwood. He would have made the perfect poster boy for why you don't screw people over.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that for me it's about personal freedom through individual empowerment and personal responsibility. Corporations, in and of themselves can actually do nothing. They require managers to make them act, and those managers, unlike the corporations, are actual living, breathing people who do need to be personally taken to task when they behave badly. Just like welfare cheats.
I am certainly not a fan of the amount of spending undertaken by the US government, and the portion of that spending on all things military is without question excessively disproportionate to the need. Transforming assets into things you intend to destroy makes little economic sense to begin with. I'm familiar with Ike's speech, and concur wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, given the current state of thinking among some of the occupants of the world, a certain amount of military spending is going to be unavoidable. On rare occasions, there are even socially worthwhile side effects to that spending. This medium that we're using to communicate with was once called the arpanet, named for the agency that funded its creation, along with far more nefarious things like laser guided bombs and ICBMs. There's good and bad in everything.
I never meant to imply that social service and support systems should be dismantled, but I do think that it's reasonable to see if we can't find ways to make them work more effectively so that we all get more of a bang for our collective buck, and that those of us who are currently disenfranchised are less likely to remain so.
Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
Nice thoughtful and not discussions here
I like the mix of the serious analysis and the zany on this topic here. I have a lot (too much probably) to say on both levels but not tonight. I just took an amazing tour of the only distillery in the State of Washington and along with others asked a ton of questions after we sampled the gin and vodka. Very tasty. Just opened this fall. Called Dry Fly Distilling. Time to smile and listen to some Grateful Dead.
If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite.
William Blake
Ron Paul.and, here's an
Ron Paul.
and, here's an interesting take on the ol' quote-
"It is not the person who votes that counts, it is the person who counts the vote."
(supposedlyattributed to Jos. Stalin)...
HOW TO HACK AN LHS VOTE MACHINE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiiaBqwqkXs
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moc.swencigolyzzuf.www
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:)
Very interesting set of viewpoints... I am not sure who I am voting for (Michigan primary 1-15-08), but I am sure not voting for Hillary Clinton. I have been told that I am not listening to her viewpoint OR she is a woman, Are you afraid of her becoming President? The answer to both are no, I am listening and that is why she will not get my vote. She has made many promises and kept zero. She has changed her mind at the last minute on multiple topics, never to apologize, only to abondon the folks she strung along.
I am not hear to bash her, there are enough web pages to do that... I just wanted to add my 2 cents - btw... I love that about the Dead community - I can say what I want and will always be considered part of the 'family'.
In response to jobs moving overseas…
I think that this is actually a good thing, BUT we need to educate ourselves for the new wave of high tech jobs coming our way. A good book on the matter is The World Is Flat (Friedman).
In response to enabling the poor…
Give a man a fish and after he eats half, he will throw the other half away. Teach a man to fish and after he eats half a fish, he will remember the effort involved with ‘earning’ the fish and figure out a way to preserve it for later… Me
Everyone needs help sometimes...
I remember a friend once told me that they had been on tour for some time and had run out of money - They went to the Spaghetti truck guy (GD Parking lot - show unknown) after not eating for a few days and asked him if he could spare a plate for them to share - The guy hooked them up with all that they could eat. I know that this does not go along with my adage above, but I thought it was a good story.
I may vote for CCj, but maybe for Mike Lookinland. He is Bobby Brady from the Brady Buch TV Show. I met him at a show (Buffalo 199x, I think)... Although, I did not beleive him when he told me who he was. Then I was watching a show (Where are they now) about kid actors from the day, when there he was on TV and said that he had followed the Dead for some time following his acting career. So Mike may get my vote - If nothing more than an apology for not beleiving you. I beleive you now!
Nobody for Pres
When i saw the name Romney in relationship to the election, my immediate reaction was that Wavy was standing.
Which brought to mind the Nobody for pres campaign in 1980
see page 197 of Grateful Dead Family Album
Bob
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://spanishsunshinedaydream.blogspot.com/
Spanish Jam
I am not really into
I am not really into politics, but my personal beliefs are more along the Republican/Conservative party lines.
John Edwards
By the looks of all the headlines, he is really going to need alot of help.
My twin girls
turn 18 this week, the only thing new for them at 18 is to be able to vote!! This year is scary, no good choices. Yep your right Steve-O John does need alot of help, maybe it will come, cause the thought of Hillary or Obama for president freaks me out!!Maybe I'll let them get the tatoo they want instead of voting!!
Ross Perot!
I'd vote for Han Solo if it were possible. I can't vote for a republican. I feel that Edwards would be a good union president. Hillary is cool but very scary. Obama would probably be the best candidate. The fact is, whoever becomes the next president has a huge fucking mess to clean up and it's going to take years to do. Politics are a touchy subject for me and I'd hate to offend anybody. Interesed in further conversation? Send a private message.
Election 2008
I was going to Vote for NOBODY again, but in think I will vote for his evil brother NOMONEY in 2008.
A Vote For NOMONEY is a vote Medical Prostitution.
"Knowledge comes from the past
Wisdom from the future"
Hmmm
Giuliani's apparently bye-bye's as well. Perhaps his "strategy" has been to run as VP with McCain all along? He bailed out of the Senate race in NY when Hillary showed up, claiming a family issue or some such nonsense. Could it be that he doubts his own electability?Or is is just that his ego bruises easily?
My suspicion is that both Clinton and Romney are about to find out just how over they are.
If Obama get the Dem nod, and Clinton accepts running as Second Fiddle, what would we call that ticket?
Baracillary?
Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
Edwards Out
With the Dem choices, I'm afraid a republican is going to end up in office again. That would really suck!!!