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What's Inside:
• 60 page hardcover Smyth-Sewn book featuring essays by Dennis McNally, David Lemieux, and Blair Jackson and photos by Jim Anderson & Mike Laurentis
• 25th Anniversary Tour Program
• Official Band Letters
• 6 Ticket Stubs
• 6 Cloth Sticker Backstage Passes
• 1 Tour Laminate
• Official 1990 Band publicity shot
• 6 complete shows on 18 discs
• 3/16/90 Capital Center, Landover, MD
• 3/19/90 Civic Center, Hartford, CT
• 3/22/90 Copps Coliseum, Hamilton, ON, Canada
• 3/26/90 Knickerbocker Arena, Albany, NY
• 3/30/90 Nassau Coliseum, Uniondale, NY
• 4/2/90 The Omni, Atlanta, GA
Box Dimensions: 12-1/8" x 3-1/8" x 12-1/8"
Recorded and Mixed Live by John Cutler
Mastered by Jeffrey Norman in HDCD
Original art by Wes Lang
Individually Numbered, Limited Edition of 9,000
Introducing The Next Box: Spring 1990!
And now for something a little different. This year's box set - Grateful Dead: Spring 1990 - offers six complete shows from the epic spring '90 tour, one concert from each city the band played, personally selected by Dead vaultmeister and archival release producer David Lemieux. The sizzling six are: 3/16/90 Capital Centre (Landover , MD), 3/19/90 Hartford Civic Center, 3/22/90 Copps Coliseum (Hamilton, Ontario), 3/26/90 Knickerbocker Arena (Albany, NY), 3/30/90 Nassau Coliseum (Uniondale, NY) and 4/2/90 The Omni (Atlanta, GA).
In his "Producer's Note" in the beautiful book that is part of the box, Lemieux, who attended the first 10 shows on the tour, states, "To my ears this was the last tour that was consistently great, where every show is excellent, not a dud in the bunch." And Grateful Dead historian Dennis McNally's comprehensive and informative insider's essay in the box is titled "The Last Great Dead Tour." These guys know what they're talking about.
Basically, the band had been on an upward trajectory since Garcia's return to the road in the spring of '87, following his near-death the previous summer. Of course, 1987 was a trip in itself, what with the unexpected mega-success of In the Dark and their first hit single, "Touch of Grey." But the momentum just kept building with each subsequent tour, as Garcia got back up to full speed (and then some!) and the group as a whole was as unified as they had ever been since Brent joined the band in the spring of '79. New original tunes were popping up and the old favorites were imbued with a freshness and spirit that was so uplifting and inspiring. The band was having fun again, and it was downright infectious.
The group's fall 1989 shows-as documented two years ago on the Formerly the Warlocks box (two shows from Hampton, VA, 10/8-9/89) and on the 2001 release Nightfall of Diamonds (a single night in NJ, 10/16/89)- kicked the energy level up another couple of notches, as the band reintroduced such loved classics as "Help on the Way" > "Slipknot!," "Attics of My Life," "Death Don't Have No Mercy" and "Dark Star."
And when the band hit the road in mid-March 1990, they had a bunch of other cool tunes to lay on their unsuspecting crowds, including the return of "Loose Lucy" (last played in 1974; it's not on this box), Brent's "Easy to Love You" (missing since 1980), a rollicking cover of the Rolling Stones' "The Last Time," The Band's "The Weight" (with all four singers taking a verse each) and a lyrically retooled "Black-Throated Wind" (absent since 1974), which elicited huge cheers every time it was played.
Over these six shows, most of the cornerstones of the Dead's repertoire from the era appear-splendid versions of "Scarlet Begonias" > "Fire on the Mountain," "China Cat Sunflower" > "I Know You Rider," "Playing in the Band," "Uncle John's Band," "Eyes of the World," "Estimated Prophet," "Truckin'," "Sugar Magnolia," "The Other One," "Terrapin," "Stella Blue," "Feel Like a Stranger," "Bird Song," "Let It Grow," "China Doll," "Box of Rain," "Morning Dew"; you name it. From the fall '89 breakouts come "Help-Slip-Frank," "Attics of My Life" and "Death Don't Have No Mercy." Among the still newish tunes are "Picasso Moon," "Blow Away," "Foolish Heart," "Just a Little Light," "Victim or the Crime," "Standing on the Moon," "We Can Run" and a couple that would get their final plays from the Grateful Dead on this tour-"Built to Last" and "Believe It or Not." There are stirring renditions of "Dear Mr. Fantasy" and "Black Muddy River," rockin' takes on "Gimme Some Lovin'" and "Iko Iko" and the only version of the full "Hey Jude" the band attempted in the modern era. And the "Rhythm Devils" and "Space" jams at the heart of each second set are as noisy-beautiful-scary-funny-intense-mysterious-wild as you'd expect/hope for.
Of course, we understand that some of you may have other favorite shows from this tour you wish were included on this box. Really, you can't go wrong with any of them. But at 18 discs, this is still the second largest Grateful Dead box (after Europe '72: The Complete Recordings) that's been released, and the non-inclusion of any other shows from the tour definitely does not preclude their future release! But this seemed like a more manageable way to go, while still giving a sense of the tour's amazing depth and breadth.
Besides the discs themselves, Grateful Dead: Spring 1990 has much to offer, including: a gorgeous 60-page hardcover book containing copious color photos by Jim Anderson and Michael Laurentus, unique artwork by Brooklyn-based fine artist Wes Lang, fascinating business letters and communications related to the tour, a detailed historical essay by Dennis McNally, a Producer's Note by David Lemieux and individual show descriptions by Blair Jackson; a reproduction of the Dead's 1990 tour program (printed and sold later in '90, for the fall and Europe '90 tours); tickets and backstage passes of all six shows; a band publicity photo from 1990 by Ken Friedman; Dennis McNally's tour laminate; and reproductions of the colored 8x10 sheets GDTS sent out with hotel, food and other information for each city on the tour.
With recordings made by longtime Grateful Dead recordist and producer John Cutler, mastered by Jeffrey Norman in HDCD, you just know it's gonna sound great-and it does!
So, that's the skinny this time 'round. This box is limited to just 9,000 numbered copies - please note, this is the only time these shows will ever be officially available on CD. There will not be an All Music Edition and single shows will not be available physically. Due to ship out August 31st, we anticipate that this extraordinary set will sell-out, so order your copy today!
If you're looking for more of a bite-sized taste of the '90s, Spring 1990: So Glad You Made It, a 2-CD set featuring a handful of favorites, will be in stores on September 18th.
-Blair Jackson
Good things are coming our way...
And hopefully this holds true for each person waiting for the new Box Set.
Limited Editions. Hmmm...
Indian skull T-Shirt: "Each product is limited edition and will not be made again." -->Sold out. After selling out they brought a new Navy Blue model. Limited naturally.
Indian skull poster: Limited edition run of 500 units. --->Mark Is Dead: “On another call I made when my poster never showed they said they had accidently allowed too many people to order and they were waiting for more to arrive possibly in the middle of September (so much for only 500 being printed).”
Spring 90 Box: This box is limited to just 9,000 numbered copies - please note, this is the only time these shows will ever be officially available on CD. --->“This item is temporarily unavailable.
We have a small quantity of units still coming off the line. We will notify dead.net subscribers when the last of the 9,000 units are available for purchase.”
Daves Picks 3: Limited Edition of 12,000. ---->“We were very disappointed to learn that a few hundred copies of Dave's Picks: Volume 3, shipped via USPS, have been lost in the mail. We plan to correct the issue and take care of your order by pressing a very limited numbered edition of Dave's Picks: Volume 3.”
Bad disk
So I received my 1990 Box Set in the mail, and am extremely happy....sorta. Disc 3 from 3/19 was all scuffed and would not play. I called the customer service hotline, and the lady took my info and said that I would receive an email stating when the replacement disc would ship. After 3 days, I got a funny feeling that prompted me to call again. When I did, a differently lady told me that I needed to call the Rhino Customer Service hotline. When I did, there was a message saying that they were unable to help anyone at this time, and to just leave a message...not that they were closed, they just were going thru issues at the time, but they promise they will call back. I really wish the first lady from Dead.Net would've had the correct info the first time, and am also wondering what is going on with Rhino????? I am also wondering what she did with the info that I gave her. It sounded like she was at her home...there was a dog barking and a little kid talking in the background. I work early, so I needed to call at 5am. Does anyone have any info/advice? I am not a whiner, just someone who wants to know that my issue is being handled. Love the rest of the box set, though. It sounds amazing...except for one disc. Sincerely, Mr. Whiner
My Tally of Rhino Progress
I am somewhat of an impartial observer since I did not buy this set. No point in going into it, but I was a buyer of the E72 box and let's just say that it all worked out after perhaps an extra three months of emails, phone calls, AmEx chargebacks etc. I was left with such a bad taste in my mouth that I sold the box, although I will say that the music is awesome! I skipped this box because of the above, as well as the time period not really being my thing.
Enough background, my observations are generally really positive:
+ Rhino seems to have *really* listened to complaints about E72 and made the CD cases better, put more cool swag in the box, etc. You can't please everyone, and they didn't try to squeeze shows onto two discs by moving an encore around, which brings up the inevitable "we want filler" response. Rhino can't win on that one. If they added filler, others would complain that they ruined the flow of the show, and if they moved the encore that would also get folks howling.
+ They have started under promising and over delivering, a good move. Set expectations for a September ship date and then start shipping early.
- Quality control (broken discs? two of one disc and non of another?) seems to still be a much bigger issue than it should be. Their frequency of problems must be 10x the industry average.
- Shipping is still a nightmare. Like with the E72 communication, shipping notices are either completely erroneous or they have a UPS tracking number when they are shipped USPS. How can this *not* yet be fixed?
- Have a customer service rep suggesting that the course of action for one bad disc is to send back a 20 pound box suggests a disturbing lack of common sense.
- Extra discs should be on hand for inevitable quality problems based on the issues above. Waiting for complaints and then firing up a second run of miscellaneous discs is not a good practice for customers buying a premium product and expecting it to be right from the beginning or fixed quickly.
- A $30 or $40 Priority Shipping pricetag with later deliveries than standard is laughable from the outside and probably really upsetting if it happens to you.
Overall, a great improvement, but with a few wrinkles to iron out.
No, by none of us I mean none of us.
None of who exactly? Do you work for dead.net? Rhino?
You are not speaking for many of us on this board so you can't say "none of us" unless you are talking about some other "us" besides the posters on this forum.
My Tally of Rhino Progress reply
"Overall, a great improvement, but with a few wrinkles to iron out."
Seriously? If this is great improvement I can't imagine what you went through before!
I've never had this much trouble or read this many instances of problems in my life!
I'm not sure I'll be ordering again. But they sort of have a monopoly!
@ rbmunkin
I'm not sure who you think appointed you as ambassador of the disgruntled and disaffected, but seriously - put your big girl panties on and shut it.
Limited number available on CD
Reading the language of this release, I think that sometime next year, this will become available as a digital download at a much lower price for those of us you don't care about fancy packaging, silly trinkets and a somewhat questionable collectable limited edition.
Limited number available on CD
Reading the language of this release, I think that sometime next year, this will become available as a digital download at a much lower price for those of us you don't care about fancy packaging, silly trinkets and a somewhat questionable collectable limited edition.
2 cents
I'm one of the lucky ones who never had any problems with Deadnet or Rhino. I admit I really have no idea how good or bad overall the service is. I mean it's all a percentages game isn't it? So if 99% of all Spring 90 are packaged and shipped perfectly that still leaves 90 screwups and many of those affected will be posting their experiences here. Is 99% good or bad compared to other similar services? What's the real percentage of screwups? 1% or 40%? Who knows? Also, it's hard to tell from a handful of personal accounts the quality of anything- as everyone knows who has used tripadvisor or yelp knows. Just saying the obvious i guess. For sure we know Rhino is not 100% perfect. I think this forum was more fun when we were having pointless and petty arguments about eras and keyboard players.
Spring 90
I'm surprised how much I'm enjoying the jams on this set. I'm thinking they may be the best of any since 1976. Bob, Phil, and the drummers right up front with Jerry. But damn, they're short! I mean, you better not get distracted or you'll miss them. One sneeze and you have to start the jam over. I'm doing a lot of replays on this one. I know some people like that- it's "concise and to the point". Just a little hard for me to get used to. (and think, only 6 months later gave us the great Sept 90 "Road Trips" that has a fantastic 40 minute jam to open disc 2). I'm really liking the newer material -"Believe It or Not" is a gem. I always liked "Foolish Heart". I remember reading a scathing review of that song many years ago. It said it sounded like some "homeless haight ashbury acid casualty" singing on the streets. I thought "hey, no wonder I like it"! Keepin' it real!
dcshakedown
send me a PM with your details and I'll see if I can move things along. Sorry for the hassle.
rbmunkin Jerry the greatest rock guitarist?
Hey rbmunkin. I like your bold statement that our Jerry was the best rock guitarist in the late 60s and early 70s.
Can you elaborate it bit more? I want to hear your take on this.
best since 76
"I'm surprised how much I'm enjoying the jams on this set. I'm thinking they may be the best of any since 1976."
Check out Englishtown 77. Great show and BEST Eyes of the World EVER.
best Eyes of the World...
...is 7-8-78 in my opinion. Although, the Englishtown show does have my favorite Mississippi Half-Step.
Jerry #1
"Hey rbmunkin. I like your bold statement that our Jerry was the best rock guitarist in the late 60s and early 70s.Can you elaborate it bit more? I want to hear your take on this"
Not sure how to answer this but I'll try.
Listen to him note by note. When he's hot there is no beating him. NO ONE.
His subtlety is astonishing. Most people miss it because it's not obvious, loud, and up front the way most leads are. He's much more than a lead guitarist. Listen to disk 2 of Dicks' Pick's #8. No other guitarist can touch this with a 20 foot pole.
And who can improvise the way Jerry can?
And his breadth of talent also. Hendrix to me was a bit one-sided. The over all sound always sounded a bit the same. Absolutely amazing but limited IMHO.
It's only a "bold statement" because of the popular media. Those stupid "best guitarist" lists are NOT about quality. They are about subjective favorites. So they get a bunch of people to vote and they vote on what they LIKE without listening to the actual talent and attempt to objectively analyze the technique, uniqueness, and breadth.
You say it's all subjective? I disagree. On the surface of it, yes, it seems "obvious" that who is best in music (and any art) is totally subjective. You would almost think no one would argue with that point, right? Wrong. I would. As would Pirsig. Ever read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance? It's about "QUALITY". Very interesting read.
To drive the point home that art has an objective component, here's an extreme example: is it subjective that Jerry is a better guitarist than me? After all, I might find one person in the world who would say I was better (my Mom!). So does that make me a better guitarist than Jerry to her? No. It makes her wrong!
How about Brittany Spears vs. Janis Joplin as singers? Since Brittany had a MUCH larger following does that make her a better singer? Of course not; that's absurd. See? So Janis is objectively a better singer than Briittany and Jerry is objectively a better guitarist than me (by about 800 zillion miles, no matter how many people I could find to say I'm better). It's just an objective fact.
So I contend that the whole notion that it's "all subjective" is a lie and only if you look at it superficially.
Jerry: #1!
Come on, look at the guitarists that are put ahead of him and then ACTUALLY LISTEN to what they can do note by note, jam by jam.
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/100-greatest-guitarists/
Eric Clapton better than Jerry? You know that's just due to "popularity". LISTEN TO THEM AND COMPARE! It's absurd.
Jimmy Page, Keith Richards, KURT COBAIN???!!! The only explanation about these lists is that they are not about talent or quality but about SUBJECTIVE PREFERENCE. People are not putting their likes and dislikes aside to actually LISTEN.
RB
best Eyes of the World...
I'll check out 7/8/78 Eyes. Thanks.
Have you carefully listened to the Englishtown one? There's a whole added section of guitar jam before the vocals begin that isn't on ANY other Eyes I've ever heard, and it's fantastic.
Just listened to your 7/8/78 Eyes. Hot! I heard it here and the whole concert can be downloaded:
http://archive.org/details/gd1978-07-08.fob.knight.motb-0068.91766.flac…
Is this show on any official release?
The intro (prior to vocals starting) is better on Englishtown, but as a whole they are both HOT!
Jerry and thos Lame Readers' Polls of Greatest Guitarists.
I see what you are saying. I too like Jerry better than Hendrix and Clapton; et. , al.. Yes those readers polls are popularity contests. While I like Kurt Cobain as a song creator even Kurt would laugh at his high ranking on those silly lists.
Thanks for you take and now I have dust off my Dick's Picks # 8 Harpur college!!!
Other great '77 Eyes...
...3-19, 5-15 (wouldn't be surprised to see this show released), 5-18 (intro. jam approaches 5 minutes), 5-22 (first in a string of 4 consecutive Jerry tunes), 6-8 (long almost 20 min. with a 4 minute intro)...there are countless others as '77 was a banner Eyes year.A little (approx. 3 min) intro. jam was surprisingly common in '77. But, I agree that Englishtown is a show for the ages - - and well worth picking up.
As for Red Rocks, I like that one for the raucous Jerry vocal especially the emphasis on the word 'time', in 'ya ain't got time to call your soul a critic, no.' In fact, the entire second set from 7-8 is burning start to end. 7-7, 7-8-78 is a little jewel box of a run that I wish would be released, but alas no master reels are extant.
I have dust off my Dick's Picks # 8 Harpur college!!!
Absolutely! But it's not "easy listening". I don't listen to that disk when working or multi-tasking. I recommend just lying down and take it all in. If you want me to narrow it down even more, check out tracks 4 and 5. Greatest Other One and Cryptical Envelopment EVER!
Please listen to these two tracks and let me know what you think. I'm listening now and as usual my mind is blown. Jerry is unbelievable here. I don't like to listen to this show too much though because I want to keep it "fresh", as I can.
I like Cobain also. But to compare him as a guitarist to Jerry or some others on the list is just plain stupid.
I agree that Englishtown is a show for the ages
Yes, and I was there! Yum :)
Dick's Picks # 8 Harpur college
Holy crap, I just can't believe this show.
I told you to listen to tracks 4 and 5 of disk 2.
Listen to the whole thing, but also I want to point out one minute of what I think is the greatest Jerry I've ever heard. I think his fingers might have burst into flames! But it's the subtlety that I like.
11:30 into The Other One. It literally gives me goose bumps.
And then a few tracks later check out Lovelight from about the 5:30 mark onward. OMG!
I've been listening to this show for nearly 4 decades. I had a bootleg cassette of part of it. Many many years later, I got a card in the mail asking me to vote for what the next Dick's Picks should be. I think it was from Relix Magazine. It had ten slots to fill in my top ten picks. I put this show in all ten slots because I thought it was the greatest Dead show ever, and still do.
The next Dick's Picks was #8 and I got a reply from them saying "you have good taste!"
True story.
Other great '77 Eyes...
The other great "Eyes" you list, are they available on official releases? Or do I just check out the online archives?
Dick's Picks 18...
Has my favorite Eyes intro ever. 5 minutes of Garcia in peak form, a climax that could be best described as an electric orgasm. I've never heard anything like it. Amazing how the performance 2 nights later raises the bar even higher.
right on Zuck...
...that one is not to be overlooked...and your 'electric orgasm' description is apt...sweet, sweet intro...I just checked out the AUD on the archive and the crowd seems to hear it, too! Thanks for the reminder on how special that one is.
DP 18!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I also think DP 18 is a very, very strong show. It has been awhile since i listened to it but the solo in the Bertha opening is just flawless and the crowd burst out into applause in appreciation. The Eyes as you mentioned has a great lengthy intro. I also recall the Other One as frantically energized and big crescendos in Truckin,
Wish I could time travel . . ..
Spring '90 shipping
Hi all you beautiful people with impeccable taste. I received an email saying my Box Set has shipped by UPS GROUND, but the confusing thing is, I live in Australia and ordered international postage. Of course I have rang and all that and have not yet been told why this is, so would anybody (Marye?) be able to tell me the deal here? Thanks in advance and bless.
P.S. I'm sure many of you can relate to my anxiety around the shipping subject!
Shipping to Oz
Don't worry mate, we all got that email - they then sent one out correcting that and confirming that it would be sent by international airmail. Here in the UK we've been told to look out for it this week but it could take longer in my opinion.
Things seem to be a little messed up at the moment
WIth some reluctance, I didn't order this set. I panicked when the numbers got low and nearly ordered it but resisted. I won't listen to it. The MIDI stuff just grinds my gears. I've pre-ordered the 2-cd set from Amazon.
Anyway, it seems like things are tough in the world of dead.net distribution. I live in Australia and haven't received my DP3. I got a shipping notice on 31 July and it states: Your order from Dead.net was shipped via Standard shipping on Jul 30, 2012. Please allow up to 12 days for delivery. 34 days and counting. The last two DPs came quite quickly but the final Road Trips was a nightmare. I ended up receiving it about 3 months after it was (supposedly) shipped.
It's such a mixed bag. I don't really understand how this can't be sorted by now and it is totally unacceptable that it continues to be an issue with every release. As someone pointed out sensibly, most people have no problems and we don't hear from all of them but it's ridiculous that it is more than one or two people with order problems. Putting out 10k or so packages is not a big deal. Every package gets the same thing. A computer prints out the labels. I don't see the big deal.
Anyway, I've got so much music that I'm not really that fussed at the moment about my DP3. Some people have missing or flawed $200 boxsets. I have a missing $30 odd package. It might be on its way. It might not be. I don't really feel like it should always be my responsibility to chase up products which I ordered and paid for months ago. If it never shows up, I'll just not bother ordering anything again. There's plenty of older Dead releases on Amazon I can get instead.
Jerry was the best by far
In my subjective opinion be was definately the best guitarist-the usual suspects all have their strengths but most of them couldn't go where Jerry went.
same question
Same thing happened to me. No idea what the "#" actually means. Honestly, they may have 10,000, or 20,000 actually for sale. Who verifies anyhow...
What's Going On?
I received the Dave's Picks 3 from Redwood City Ca shipped 20 Aug USPS and arrived in Canada at my rural mailbox 29 Aug. Great Pick Dave!
I have order DPs, Box Sets, Road Trips and Dave's Picks using the Standard International US Postal Service, with no issues. Standard shipping delivery time 9 days on last shipment ... outstanding!
Globalware Solutions Standard shipping costs to Canada $5.99 US dollars ... a good value for a DP or Dave's Picks.
At the new and improved "Store", shipping is $21.95 (via DHL Global according to a Customer Service Rep email) for a $19.95 Road Trip CD with a 4 to 10 days delivery date. No Standard USPS option for Canadians at Dead Net.
What's going on?
I Want The CD's Not All the Other Stuff
I have about every pure Jerry ever released, most of the dicks picks, multiple ransoms like the classic '97 terrapin station release, the trips CD's , the solo Jerry box set ect. Also I have 1500 collected live CD's , mostly soundboard. But these box sets with 6 shows and cost this much is just too much, I really don't think anything that comes with them is going to be collectible or anything, how about a nice 8 by 10 unreleased picture of jerry playing live, I but these releases for the remastering because I have a $3000 stereo and the remastered shows sound amazing on a nice system. And whoever complained about the MIDI era I don't get, my fav era is 77 to 90. 79-81 my fav specifically .
Alternatives, Little Ben Clock and I just realised I'm sending..
...this at quarter to eight!!! (Aussie time) I empathise with your statements, and I'm in Australia, too; we Dead Noggins seem to be a rare animal here.Anyway, just got the Formerly the Warlocks box for Father's Day and it goes far beyond my expectations: When I first became seduced by this band I figured I'd always be a seventies/sixties purist, but MY GOD, no! I still prefer those decades overall, but there are plenty of treasures from the later years as well. A continuous discovery!
I believe it's on Amazon, too. But probably much more expensive, maybe check though! Bless.
This is apparently whats going on...
Go to the store, scroll to the very bottom of the front page and click on "help/customer service". Scroll down until you come to the section on shipping and - particularly if you are outside the US - check the shipping rates. Personally, I was horrified by what I saw. If this is going to be the way it is in the future, then it suggests that they will sell almost nothing outside the US again, certainly no individual CDs. Possibly (hopefully) this only applies to the "Spring '90" store, but it is not clear to me.
Also where's 3-29-90!!
Isn't that the Bradford Marcalis show? Did I butcher his last names spelling . The eyes of the works from that 3-29 is so sick, but I think it's on Dozin at the Nick
Also, if you know they are going to sell out so fast make more!
I don't have much money at all in this point in my life and it really stinks I can't take advantage of items like this. But all the T shirts are sold out and all the box sets. Is it fans or people who are going to sell them on eBay?
Opinions are still subjective
So, RBMunkin,
In the spirit of analytic debate, he's a response contrary to a number of your "bold" statements.
Your analyzing note-by-note and what-have-you, doesn’t mark you as any less subjective than Best Of polls by whomever.
Your liking Jerry's guitar work better than anyone else's is one thing, but no matter how much note-by-note comparisons you make, it doesn’t elevate your opinion to the level of objective.
“Without Jerry the phenomenon of the Grateful Dead never would have gotten past small clubs if that.”
And without the GD, Jerry wouldn’t be known outside of some audiophiliac music fiends. Considering they all talked about how essential each one of them was to the whole, and based their entire musical philosophy around that, you’re deconstructing the Dead is a great theoretic exercise, but one that misunderstands the overall point of the collective being more important aurally than the individual components.
“Robert Hunter was a great poet. He's my second favorite Dead.”
Absolutely a great poet. Also one who likely would have never written with Jerry without the GD. Hunter knew Kesey from the Menlo Park research. Kesey knew the Dead through Owsley. The Dead played through the Acid Tests. Without that connection, probably no song-writing team of Hunter/Garcia.
“Phil was a great musician in many ways but never would have gotten so popular without Jerry.”
Maybe. Is Brian Eno “popular”? Is John Cale? Robert Fripp? Phil would have likely progressed along those experimental lines without the GD.
“Bob, meh. Very good rhythm guitarist, taught largely by Jerry. Vocals, song writing, and personality - not my cup of tea. He was always jealous of Jerry being the front man. He wanted to be the front man but just plain old didn't have the talent or personality.”
Did he now? Good to know. I never thought he was a great guitar player, nor a great song writer, but he did pen the music of Sugar Mag, Looks Like Rain, and belt out a mean Minglewood. GD wouldn’t have been without this finger on the hand.
“Drummers - very good but the Dead could have gone on with different ones.”
And the sound of “rolling thunder” wouldn’t be. Thus, no Dead as we know it. No Scarlet>Fire, no PITB.
“Keyboards - Pigpen was the only GREAT one.”
Not so. But you can believe that all you wish. Pigpen had charisma and was a “stone jack baller and his heart was true” but he couldn’t play piano very well. He blew a mean nasty dirty mouth harp, but his musical ability didn’t span a great spectrum. Keith was quite proficient on piano but limited on organ and the encroaching diversity and array of keyboards. Any discussion of Brent is for another time.
“Donna - OMG why was she ever in the Dead?! Just horrible. Sounded like a bag full of cats being hit with a bat. Okay on a couple of studio albums but ruined many a live concert recording.”
I agree, but then there a couple of Eyes of the World and Sugar Mag she doesn’t sound bad on. I usually skip tunes if she gets gonna too much.
Jerry without the Dead mostly likely wouldn’t have had Hunter as a song-writing partner, thus none of these songs would have come about. Talented as he was, he would likely have been a bit like Ry Cooder, Al Di Meola, and such ilk. Infinitely talented and diverse, but without a band, they go through the ages being treasured by a few, liked by some more, and unknown to most.
As for “Hendrix to me was a bit one-sided. The overall sound always sounded a bit the same. Absolutely amazing but limited IMHO” … I think your lack of analyses is demonstrated lacking here. Y’know, cuz 1983 sounds sooooo much like Purple Haze. And Jimi with a 12-string acoustic is the same one-sided sound as when slaughtered ear drums at Monterey with the opening riff of Killing Floor.
Favorites are favorites for damn good reasons. But yours are no more objectively the best than mine, VH-1s, or Rolling Stones polls from readers who can’t remember back any further than last summer’s hot thing. You can congratulate yourself all you want for “bold statements” (Jerry is the greatest guitarist is hardly a bold statement on Dead.net. And your argument lacks anything beyond your talk of how awesome you feel when you listen to him play.
He’s great. But talk of the “best” is beyond the faculties at hand. Or… ehem… ear.
P.S. If anyone is interested in might-have-beens with music, check out a novel called Glimpses by Lewis Shiner. A guy puts on his headphones and hears records by his favorite bands that never were: a Doors album post-LA Woman, Beach Boys beyond Brian Wilson's mental collapse, another Beatles record... that kind of thing.
subjective/objective
Quality is not purely subjective. No way to prove it to you in words. So I'll stop here.
"And without the GD, Jerry wouldn’t be known outside of some audiophiliac music fiends."
Nonsense! He was a musician extraordinare and his passion would move him toward notoriety one way or another. He didn't need the Dead, he CREATED the Dead. And he would have done something no matter who he worked with.
Hunter and Garcia met completely independent of the Dead.
"Jerry without the Dead mostly likely wouldn’t have had Hunter as a song-writing partner, thus none of these songs would have come about."
Of course the same exact songs wouldn't have come about, but I certainly wouldn't have cared. All I would care about is hearing Jerry, no matter what he did, because he was GREAT and would have been no matter what.
"Favorites are favorites for damn good reasons. But yours are no more objectively the best than mine,"
I never said that. I said art is not just subjective; that there is an objective component. I never said MY likes were any more objective than any one else's.
"You can congratulate yourself all you want for “bold statements” (Jerry is the greatest guitarist is hardly a bold statement on Dead.net."
I didn't call it "bold". Another poster did.
Anyway, we can agree to disagree. At least we agree about Donna!
One more thing:
With all the personell changes, the Grateful Dead were great, even after losing Pigpen, and all the other keyboardist they lost, as well as when Mickey was gone.
Then when Jerry was gone - poof. No good any more. They didn't continue because they couldn't. But anyone else they lost Jerry could have kept the band going.
The post Jerry band called "The Dead" and then "Further"; I'm sorry but they sucked compared to the Grateful Dead.
Jerry made the GD, he was the GD, and could have created a great band with any good musicians.
Quality _is_ subjective, no
Quality _is_ subjective, no matter how you describe it. The idea of one artist being more talented than another is subjective. Is Monet better than Van Gogh? Quality is, for most people, subjective to the price at bidding that has been established by people claiming authority to declare it such. Objectively, something is "good" or "bad" because it has been granted a more desirable status in a given framework. Social capital, if you will. You place great cultural capital in Jerry's playing and thus, for you, he is the best. The value I place on his playing, though high, is not as valuable for me as it is to you. I'd pay more for someone else. (Much as I value/love/geek-out-over the Grateful Dead and Pink Floyd, VU is still, for me, minted from the most valuable coin music/art provides.)
You are correct about my mis-attribution of the "bold"-ness, that was someone else calling it that. My mistake. :)
But the comparison of Pigpen dying and the band continuing vs. Jerry dying and not continuing, isn't a fair one. The first, a member dies while everyone in the band is still under 30 years of age. When they're all around 50, another one dies after 30 years together. Economics and age played as much a role in that. And then, as you said and I agree, even when the "tribute" bands contained all members but Jerry, it wasn't the same. But neither was a JGB show anything like a GD concert.
I'm not attempting to convince you, or anyone, to alter their opinions. You've made a great case as to JG being your favorite guitarist, and that is a valid opinion and reasoning you have. Declare one better than another when you reach a level of quality and performance between Clapton (whom I think is not as favorable as JJ Cale), Hendrix, Garcia, and let's say... Carlos Santana. Who is better? Depends on the night, the performance, the song. Ask most musicians, especially of an age to have seen a taster's choice of Great Guitarist, and Hendrix will, for good reason, be often cited as the best. I think Hendrix was a Beethoven-level musician. Making Garcia a Liszt-level guitarist, doesn't take anything away from him at all. Two entirely different styles, backgrounds, and intentions from each in what they attempted to do musically. Hendrix deliberately complicated his music as he progressed, while Garcia often spoke of enjoying simpler-constructions because it enabled the ability to freely improvise upon it.
Personally, I think it's great that you are passionate about this. It's music, and musicians are people we turn to to share the most intimate aspects of our lives: when we're joyous, when we're depressed, when we're furious about blah, blah, or blah.
I personally don't think of the ears of the Dead as one being better than another. Nothin' gets me goin' like a scorching rampage through The Eleven (which didn't happen after 70-71), but paring Scarlet & Fire couldn't have happened before 77. Terrapin is easily the most often played live song for me, but that's because there was only a single version of, and terribly recorded, Rosemary.
Because they did what they did and continually evolved in their sound and performance, they've given us this huge palette from which we all, evidently, paint our own pictures of the past and what we want them to be for us, and some of these paintings we call masterpieces.
Spring 1990
In a vain effort to return the discussion to the excellent but somewhat inefficiently shipped box set -- I was only able to catch the boys from 85-95, so 89 and 90 stand out as the apex years,
with Jerry sounding fresh and not so ragged and tired, and inspired ensemble playing.
I am so glad to have this. It will be cherished for years.
Wish I was able to catch 5-2-70, but I was still only 4!
Geez, you people who were able to see these shows must be practically senior citizens by now! ;-)
Now, if only they'd ship my replacement for the cracked Disc 3 of 3/16/90?
See, I'm not bitter.
that's back on topic?
Who got screwed out of their order is back on topic? Do tell, Footbear, who got screwed out of their order?
What started out as a thread that was finally mostly about the music in the box has degenerated into another bile fest. Guess some people feel better having an audience. I'm about done with these boards, myself. Talk about disenchanted and disgusted...... Sheesh.
Quality
How would you answer my example in my first post about this:Do you seriously contend that Jerry isn't OBJECTIVELY a better guitarist than me?
Comparing Van Gogh vs. Monet is much more difficult of course. I'm trying to make the point by using an absurd example, but a valid one.
Personally I think we want to say quality is purely subjective because it's easier to say that. It's too difficult to show objective quality so we don't want to go there. But just because something is difficult doesn't mean it's not reality.
This reminds me of the joke:
A man is searching on the ground under a street lamp. Someone comes up and asks him if he lost something. He says yes, his keys. Did you lose them here? No, I lost them in the alley but it's too dark there.
When looking for objective quality, one must look in the dark alley even though it's easier to see in the subjective lighted area.
Geez, you people who were able to see these shows must be practi
"Geez, you people who were able to see these shows must be practically senior citizens by now! ;-)"
Hey, I resemble that remark!
I'm about done with these boards, myself. Talk about disenchante
Aw, what a shame.
product sku
GRA9900088