• 1,297 replies
    marye
    Joined:

    Nuclear power! Carcinogenic cell phones! The Stanley Cup! and the usual parade of kids dancing and shaking their bones, politicians throwing stones, etc. Discuss.

Comments

sort by
Recent
Reset
  • slo lettuce
    Joined:
    legalization measures...........
    i wish those would come up for intelligent and educated discussions where i reside...............but i'm afraid that will happen at about the same time they run out of beer and brats in milwaukee. until then, it's best to do what any good and resourceful gardener would do. --- best of luck co, wa, or. !!!!!!! ---- (it's 2012, we shouldn't even so much as have to discuss this anymore, but it makes some politicians feel worthy of their useless jobs ( with their obscene perks) by creating ludicrous drug laws which target minorities and the poor......... who, in turn, feed the prison industry). "i like to think of laws not as rules to live by, but more as suggestions". :D....... a wise adage indeed! george carlin "they've outlawed the most popular vegetable in the world!" timothy leary
  • wilfredtjones
    Joined:
    CO, WA, OR legalization measures
    C'mon deadheads...it's time for a Drug Peace!
  • Anna rRxia
    Joined:
    The Tea Party
    Is rooted in racism, among other roots in my opinion. The vast, vast proportion of the Tea Party are white and the type who lock their doors when driving through semi-marginal neighborhoods, thumbing the door locks. Many of them are "birthers" who hate all blacks and would never vote for a black under any circumstances. Next, they tend to be older and very conservative. Their rage (energy?) has to do mainly with the bail-outs and other spending Obama has done over his tenure, As usual, they conveniently forget Obama was facing a massive big-bank invented crisis which forced him to spend with little restraint with questionable legislation. They see this spending as irresponsible in the extreme and feel it will handicap the country as a whole and their kids and grand-kids in particular. Much of their ideology is written as talking points by conservative ideologues like the Koch brothers. Out of this (or starting from this) is a a guy called Grover Norquist who has had every possible politician sign a pledge saying they will never vote to raise taxes, whatever the circumstance. This is a thundering clash of opposing philosophies on the economy. The US Government's economy is not the same as your household economy and this is where they make their simplistic mistakes, You don't need to kill the social safety net -- you need to tax the highest 2% of the income tax bracket while shutting down corporate subsidies and loopholes (corporate welfare) and identify at least 5% of waste that every sane person knows is in the military budget. The Koch brothers and other super-rich Ayn Rand conservatives are foaming at the mouth to kill Medicare.Medicaid and Social Security. They need to be silenced to a reasonable proportion. One theory is slash all spending. Another is to spend money on physical infrastructure and other vital needs. No doubt the US will muddle through in a mixture of these two thanks to Norquist and the Tea Party, The Simpson/Bowles legislation does have some sound fiscal policy that would help address the debt and it's attendant interest. This would incorporate many of the Tea Party's legitimate concerns. The problem is to separate what is sound fiscal policy from the hysterical gibberish coming from the Koch Brothers and other super greed-head Ayn Rand coneheads. The Tea Party people are being used like tools. They need to see how they are being used in the class war.
  • Parkas4Kids
    Default Avatar
    Joined:
    Dumb and Dumbererererer
    Y'know, this thought came to me the other night, and it proves just how stupid and simple-minded the people of this beautiful country can be: The TEA Party consider themselves to be conservatives/Republicans, and their stance is that they've been "Taxed Enough Already." The majority of them appear to be middle-class Americans, and they're about as anti-Obama as you can get. Now, here's the part where I start scratching my head. They're anti-Obama because they don't like his tax policies (he wants to increase taxes on the upper class/richest 1%) and are going to vote for Mitt Romney, whom they identify with because he's filthy-f**king-rich. But Romney has admitted he doesn't intend on increasing taxes on the rich while also saying the American people need to pay more in taxes to recover from the deficit of '00 through '08. So, where's that money going to come from? The upper class's taxes are already reduced, and the poor can barely afford to pay the standard tax rate based on their income. Now, here's where I fail to find the logic in the TEA Party's argument (assuming there was ever logic to begin with): The obvious answer of who will be shouldering the brunt of the tax increases is the MIDDLE CLASS. How the TEA Party can't see this boggles my mind to near-migraine proportions. It's clear that we live in a country where the majority of the population chooses not to think for themselves, especially when we have a**holes like Bill O'Reilly and Glen Beck (among numerous others) who take it upon themselves to act as the mouthpieces of the extreme right.
  • Anna rRxia
    Joined:
    History repeats itself in Afghanistan
    Without need for a concise history in the last 20 years of Afghanistan, the Mujahadeen fought and extraordinarily bloody war to oust the Russians from that desolate country. The Communist president, Najibullah and his brother were allowed to remain under UN protection (though the UN were merely public relations window-dressing without weapons, with the help of the Mujahadeen) Najibullah was left in relative obscurity in the diplomatic quarter of Kabul. The Taliban showed up after the Mujahadeen realized the impossibility of holding on to the war-torn country. Najibulllah's tortured body was strung from a traffic control light pole and guarded for all to see. Now, some 12 years later, Afghan President Hamat Karzai and his brother cling to power with the help of coalition forces, who have made clear through Obama that they are bugging out in 2014. Once again the Taliban are knocking on the door and once again it will be some component of the current coalition who will be tasked with handing over the bodies of it's erstwhile leadrers in the hopes of currying some type of favor. Today, on the anniversary of Najibullah's demise, Karzai pleads mournfully with the USSECDEF Leon Panetta for more support (who tells him to be more grateful for the sacrifice of 2000 allied soldiers as the coalition has expended that many men in mortal combat.
  • Anna rRxia
    Joined:
    Two less than current events 50 years ago today:
    The Beatles & James Bond. Boy, do I feel old.... Anybody know any good geriatric hipster collectives?
  • Grybo
    Default Avatar
    Joined:
    Love for Levon
    Sooooo besides all of the garbage in the news I would like to think that the Love for Levon event I attended in New Jersey last night was a spiritually healing and lovely event for one of music's most revered men. I have not teared up and had goosebumps from a live music experience in too long. This review puts it fairly poignantly http://www.jambands.com/news/2012/10/04/roger-waters-gregg-allman-john-…
  • Anna rRxia
    Joined:
    Having to listen to Mitt Romney
    Tell vague lies for an hour and a half was more than I could take. Obama not being fired up was disappointing. Neither had any good ideas for the future. Goooooo Mayans!
  • marye
    Joined:
    luckily we're in California
    so all we're getting is disingenuous spin on the propositions by the usual suspects on both sides.
  • Gr8fulTed
    Joined:
    and don't forget the PAC money
    We're about to be bombarded with full press Karl Rove and Koch Brother funded commercials. If your TV set is in Florida, Ohio or Colorado, watch out!! I'm off to the Joint for Furthur!!
user picture

Member for

17 years 3 months
Forums

Nuclear power! Carcinogenic cell phones! The Stanley Cup! and the usual parade of kids dancing and shaking their bones, politicians throwing stones, etc. Discuss.

user picture

Member for

14 years 8 months
Permalink

Although the popular vote will be very close the Democratic "Get-Out-The-Vote" operation will be blistering and Obama has a n 86% chance of winning the eletoral vote. The Romulans and Republicans in general lied and lied and lied and attacked women's reproductive rights, among every other decent thing under the sun. After a ton of hard work we should be all raising a glass of champagne to 4 more years of progressive policies. Many thanks to Bruce Springsteen for his efforts in support of the president!
user picture

Member for

12 years 6 months
Permalink

Will make a huge difference all around the world from Dubai to Mumbai to Shanghai. Like it or not you're a citizen of the Empire with all the rights and responsibilities. Jerry didn't give it any energy. Phil & Bob helped Obama four years ago. The Grateful Dead/Rex/Furthur support(ed) progressive policies that come from people like Barak Obama. I hate to sound pedantic, but this is the most important election until a progressive third party breaks through.
user picture

Member for

12 years 1 month
Permalink

and in the spirit of reaching across party lines, may some healing vibes and quality organic salve be applied to romney's booty for the severe spanking he received from his home state of massachusetts............ouch! "when life looks like easy street, .................."
user picture

Member for

17 years 2 months
Permalink

Congratulations to the President: may he enjoy a successful second term. Thank you all, especially the women voters, for supporting Barack Obama and surviving the barrage of negative advertising aka Rove and the Koch brothers. Washington and Colorado passed initiatives legalizing the recreational use of marijuana: wonder how long it will take Kansas to step in that direction??
user picture

Member for

14 years 8 months
Permalink

A truly great, Lincolnesque victory speech to a crowd of of 10k campaign workers who had to spend at least 20 hours knocking on doors. We should all hope that Republicans come to their senses and work to ensure health care, cuts in the military and a way to stop the interest on the national debt from going nuclear. In the words of Bush after his re-election: "I have earned political capital and i intend to use it." Bring it Mr. Obama!
user picture

Member for

14 years 8 months
Permalink

Democratic demographics: lost white men won blacks won hispanics won woman (single, married, single moms) won asians The Republicans are dead!
user picture

Member for

17 years 3 months
Permalink

Let's just say I have friends and family of all political persuasions, and I don't choose either for their politics. That said, I'm finding the plight of my lifelong-Republican sister, who cannot believe the hijacking of her party by the loonies, pretty interesting.
user picture

Member for

17 years 2 months
Permalink

reminds me of lama gonzo in some ways. Good wishes to either, or both?
user picture

Member for

17 years 2 months
Permalink

That Gonzo done good this election cycle. Anna, if you're in touch, send him congrats.
user picture

Member for

12 years 1 month
Permalink

when second congressional district representative tammy baldwin was elected to the u.s. house of representatives, displacing a genuinely shocked tommy thompson (good riddance)! tammy will be the 77th woman in the house, the first woman from wisconsin in the house, and the very first non-incumbent, openly gay person to serve in congress. she is a true progressive and a leading advocate for universal healthcare, energy independence, civil rights and women's reproductive rights. i will probably never see the day when women rule the house and the senate ( or the country) with their hearts and their minds, but it sure did my heart good on tuesday night to see that this politically bipolar state thought with their hearts and minds and made history by electing a TRUE representative of the people. way to go wisconsin and congratulations to tammy baldwin! and . . . . . . .since this is called "trouble ahead, trouble behind" i'll say -- with reservation: the house remains red the senate is blue once again obama is screwed! the obstructionistic behavior from boehner and norquist and company has already started in full force and it looks likely that pres. obama is going to have one hell of a fight on his hands for the next 4 years (again) with these assholes. i sincerely hope i'm wrong.
user picture

Member for

17 years 3 months
Permalink

The only thing is now the legislature and governorship in WI is single-party controlled...
user picture

Member for

12 years 1 month
Permalink

hence the "politically bipolar". sure don't know how the hell tea party muppet scott walker got voted in as gov. along with a tea party majority state congress and then folks here turn around and vote for tammy over tommy, but it happened. glad, too. she's a great change from this state's "norm" ploliticos and a good seed to have been planted. you know what else, wtj? one of my favorite pastries is an eclaire...... :))))))))))) hehehe
user picture

Member for

17 years 2 months
Permalink

73 Saturday > 23 Monday, in KC. Thanks to those of us who pushed for, participated in and contributed to the recent reelection of our US president. Like Marye mentioned, I too have an older sister hell-bent on voting Republican, regardless of who they are and what they stand for. I hope Congress will avert the fiscal cliff dilemma now facing us. Don't laugh too hard when the Chiefs get throttled in Pittsburgh tonight on national tv....
user picture

Member for

12 years 1 month
Permalink

- from an ex-doorman who used to load his limos every other weekend for the hamptons and would receive a check for $50 at the holidays from the wealthiest resident of 740 park avenue, n.y. -- exclusive home of more billionaires than any other address in the u.s. this youn man was fired as a doorman from 740 park avenue when he inadvertantly opened the limo doors in "incorrect sequence", thus causing the poor billionaire's ego some undue and unwarranted distress .........
user picture
Default Avatar
Permalink

The Republicans may be down but they are not out. When Obama and the liberals have spent the US into bankruptcy in 4 years, the Republicans will rise again and save the country.
user picture
Default Avatar

Member for

11 years 10 months
Permalink

Stalin had a word for you Obama lackies - useful idiots. Voting for your own demise. Obamacare puts your health into the hands of big, bloated out of touch government. 2700 pages of rules, taxes and regulation. Try reading a page sometime. Not one person who voted for it read it. 2700 pages written by lobbyists and special intrest groups. It has already increased health care costs. If it was so good, why was the subject avoided on this year's campaign trail? Why wasn't it implimented immidiatly? Why don't the eletists who voted for it subject themselves to it? San Fran Nan (Pelosi) idiotically stated " We have to pass the bill to find out what is in it" - How stuipid! (For good reading some day look into how her Starkist Tuna operation in American Samoa benefitted from the stimulus package). Socialism has never worked and will never work. Piven, Ayers, Alinsky - smart people - They know how to turn their followers into useful idiots. Don't fall into the trap. I remember the sadness I felt when it was announced that Woodstock was a "free" concert. Many people worked countless hours to deliver a great product. The glee from people who stormed onto the concert site was disappointing. The generation who wanted something for nothing is now stealing from future generations to bolster their own power. We are trillions in debt. A trillion seconds ago it was 29,000 B.C. I despise government and want less of it. Look for candidates who promote freedom, property rights and individual liberty. Oooo freedom, Oooooo Liberty.
user picture

Member for

17 years 3 months
Permalink

It is okay to disagree here. It is not okay to call people names. Cut it out. ME, forum moderator
user picture

Member for

16 years 8 months
Permalink

are flying their flags at half mast
user picture

Member for

17 years 3 months
Permalink

the cupcakes with the squiggles on top any more? Back in the '50s, those things were hot stuff. Of course, back in the '50s they were probably made with real food ingredients, too.
user picture

Member for

12 years 1 month
Permalink

loved one of their products so much, they immortalized it in a song....... :) ...... (that's my belief and i'm stickin' with it) @mike: "a world without twinkies, ho hos,and ding dongs" who among us would be left? :D.....lol
user picture

Member for

17 years 3 months
Permalink

I loved those little cupcakes. I would peel off the frosting skin and eat that first before making my way to the cake. Life used to be so simple.
user picture

Member for

14 years 8 months
Permalink

The arctic ice cap melted down to a record 24% ice-cap (in other words 76% ice free). 97% of the Greenland ice sheet was melting this year. Read the article from the NY Times @ nytimes.com/2012/09/20/science/earth/arctic-sea-ice-stops-melting-but-new-record-low-is-set.html?_r=0. 350.org, an environmental group crunching the numbers, with the help of Price, Warterhouse, Coopers, says that 2% is the amount of global rise in temperature that can be tolerated (a figure accepted by scientists worldwide). We are at 1%. The amount of carbon that can be spewed in the air before we reach that 2%, total, is 587 gigatons. The amount of carbon based fuels stockpiled ALREADY, by companies such as Exxon-Mobil and Peabody coal is 2800 gigatons. The Keystone Pipeline will be the first environmental test for the Obama Administration. Even if he doesn't go after that project there are other projects in the works to bring tar sands oil to export from the Gulf of Mexico states. Sandy showed our planet is changing. Extremes are the new norm. There is a large measure of psychic-numbing out there. Not to mention poor people in W. Virginia in the coal industry wanting their jobs in coal and being forced by their companies to contribute to Romney super-pacs. Global warming is mutating our planet. It doesn't matter who is to blame. I hope the restored Rex Foundation gives 350.org a grant. There is no place to live, no matter how much money you have, not to be effected by this.
user picture

Member for

17 years 3 months
Permalink

"A system of conservation based solely on economic self-interest is hopelessly lopsided. It tends to ignore, and thus eventually to eliminate, many elements in the land community that lack commercial value, but that are (as far as we know) essential to its healthy functioning. It assumes, falsely, I think, that the economic parts of the biotic clock will function without the uneconomic parts. It tends to relegate to government many functions eventually too large, too complex, or too widely dispersed to be performed by government. "An ethical obligation on the part of the private owner is the only visible remedy for these situations." – Aldo Leopold
user picture

Member for

14 years 8 months
Permalink

The essential philosophy of the last Bush Administration was that "God" put the whole planet at our disposal to profit from. The landowner has a moral duty and responsibility to take stewardship. collectively, of that land which he does not own. I see both extremes where I live in Vermont. People who dump their garbage over a hill (it cost money to dispose of garbage, never mind recycle) , into a watershed and people who show up annually for "Green-up Vermont" day and pick up the garbage as well as being active in their local communities about land use all year round.
user picture

Member for

14 years 8 months
Permalink

Those vowing the Republicans will rise again. Ain't gonna happen unless they learn GOTV (Get Out The Vote). Billions spent by Karl Rove's and Koch's on negative advertizing couldn't defeat the ground operation. There are more people at the bottom than the top. Keep on demonizing, Rush You're pushing them right into our column.
user picture

Member for

12 years 1 month
Permalink

that voting for the extremist candidate who wants to gut social security, medicare, the epa, and privatize everything in sight -- all paul ryan objectives (and an ayn rand, "atlas shrugged" devotee) -- would be voting for your own demise, but that's just me.
user picture
Default Avatar

Member for

12 years 7 months
Permalink

I think this election has shown the nation what a bag of nuts and bolts the Republican party truly is. The fact that "legitimate rape" was a discussion that made its way to the political stratosphere shows just how out of touch the Conservative brand is from the rest of the nation. Personally, as father to a daughter, there's no way in Hades I'd vote Republican after that kind of talk was entertained. Another big problem we have in this country is the media, and I'm not just talking about Fox News; the media has been allowed to get away with contorting and/or flat-out making up facts to persuade/dissuade the public, and it's appalling. Whatever responsibility to the public the media of yesteryear pledged, that code of ethics and conduct died out long ago. The problem is that they have no one but themselves to answer to, and they are the primary outlet for any and all information the majority of Americans receive on a regular basis. Morale Majority my left foot....
user picture

Member for

12 years 1 month
Permalink

it's really real....... reality sank in today when i was in my local grocery store, and the hostess section was already wiped out! no more suzy-q creamy particles to wipe off my face no more munchie time, no more lunchie time no more "any" time. hostess produced a fine line of laboratory made, industrial grade survival foods a culinary symphony of sugar, fat, and all things artificial with an ingredient list that only an accomplished chemist could appreciate chewy, gooey and who didn't feel better with a hostess product in their hand? just seeing the box brought about a sense of mild euphoria (i was pavlov's dog, incarnate, at the sight of a fresh suzy-q) not to mention that all hostess products qualified as an important part of a balanced vegetarian diet "the times they are a changin' " this is TRULY sweet - sorrow....... :(
user picture

Member for

17 years 3 months
Permalink

In case you haven't heard, the latest is Hostess will get a reprieve. All this talk is part of a hardball game between management and unionized bakers. The latest court challenge has rejected management's bankruptcy request...so that means prepare for frosting.
user picture

Member for

12 years 1 month
Permalink

i hadn't heard. that is definitely good news. ever since friday, i thought that maybe this really was the event the mayans were predicting.i feel cautiously optimistic now.............. maybe there's hope for those store shelves after all. and thanks, mike, for the link.............cool article.
user picture

Member for

17 years 2 months
Permalink

Been having difficulties with posting lately. Usually I get some kind of timing-out error message, but then when I check, the post is actually there. But right now I'm just filling up space to get rid of the double post that just occurred (I only hit save once, I swear!).
user picture

Member for

17 years 2 months
Permalink

Twinkies are still being produced in Canada. Road trip!
user picture

Member for

14 years 8 months
Permalink

Hope everybody out there has a happy, healthy and safe holiday weekend. (PS) Slow down, relax, listen to music in the car, no need to text while driving...
user picture

Member for

17 years 2 months
Permalink

Happy Thanksgiving y'all! Just made another WAG on 30 Days of November: haven't spent a lot of time on researching the daily selections. Appreciate the "picks" and the fun provided by DL. Sure hope the winter precipitation starts happening in the draught-stricken Rockies and great plains region: Hardly any snow on the mountains at Steamboat this morning.
user picture

Member for

14 years 8 months
Permalink

The Patriots lost Rob Gronkowski last week to a broken arm and I thought they might have a hard time against the Jets, a divisional rival like the Dolphins that often give them fits. No need to worry. Brady & Company, with superb coaching of Bellichek (His 200th career victory), jacked the Jets, stealing the football 5 times and marching easily up the field on offense to chew up the clock. In the last two games the Pats have scored 59 and 49 points respectively. Their defense ain't nothing to sneeze at either. With a seven and one divisional record, they are going to the playoffs with a first-round bye -- nobody close! Imagine when they are healthy? Gronkowski is due back for the playoffs. This Thanksgiving Day the Lions game was far more interesting to watch.
user picture

Member for

17 years 3 months
Permalink

The rich got richer and the poor got poorer, while I had a leftover turkey sandwich and graded student essays, which is my plan for today and tomorrow too.
user picture

Member for

14 years 8 months
Permalink

The election is over and people are trying to breath a sigh of relief. No need to talk about this again. Unfortunately, the fiscal cliff has thrown it back in our face. To be clear, it is about taxes and balancing the budget. The bad news is that it is is a one-sided debate. We have the debate being driven by old-fashioned conservative "balance-the-books" conservatives. Only today the Keynsians have raised their heads to chime in about the debate. The Brits and Europeans have gone through the conservative approach before and have now found themselves bogged down in a double-dip recession. The liberals are now floating more Keynsian ideas that would include the best of Obama's ideas (tax the freakin' rich) close loopholes, raise the capital gains tax to 20% and gut the military-industrial complex. Make cosmetic changes to entitlement programs, mostly making sure the rich can't take advantage of them. Then spend money on creating jobs, mostly by rebuilding America's infrastructure. We could have 4% growth in this country with that policy. The only thing standing in the way is the Republicans. Next time somebody asks you about the "Fiscal Cliff" give them this version or a variant for an answer, don't let somebody else's agenda dominate the debate.
user picture

Member for

14 years 8 months
Permalink

President Obama has personally approved 2500 drone strikes in his first four years. Talk about karma! Most of the people killed had it coming. They were plotting against us and would kill innocent people. This is a major escalation in the drone method, which allows us to attack enemies in countries where we have not declared war. The Obama administration, it was revealed today, made up rules to make sure the President always has the final say, instead of delegating the responsibility to others. They were afraid of what Mitt might do. People have remarked on the cold steeliness of Barak Obama. He is not a man to be crossed. I think people who doubt his resolve should watch how the Iranian nuke problem plays out...
user picture

Member for

14 years 8 months
Permalink

Palestine was admitted to the UN as an observer state last week. The entire world, 139 countries, voted for the resolution and two voted against, the US and Israel. Listening to the talking heads justifying the US move made me laugh out loud. The building of Israeli settlements is now the hugest obstacle to peace in the matter and the US insists it is other factors that are to blame. For a better understanding of how the US relates to Israel and against Palestine in this humanitarian tragedy, the building of the largest and most densely populated slum in the world, read Noam Chomsky's words on the subject. I don't have a specific book right off the top of my head, just google it and you'll find multiple words of his on the subject by Chomsky. What is the old saying? Treat other people the way you would like yourself to be treated? Israel should heed those words. Perhaps it wouldn't find itself reviled around the world.
user picture

Member for

14 years 8 months
Permalink

Royal Dutch Shell has announced publicly that through expansion of fracking shale oil and natural gas production the US will become the world's leading energy producer within ten years. This will in turn produce a manufacturing(!?!) boom in the US as energy is the driving cost factor in sending jobs overseas. It will now be again cheaper for manufacturing (and better for the environment) to be done in the US, most probably in the mid-west. This is a major WOW factor for the US. For the next 100 years we are guaranteed to be the strongest economy on the planet and our political ties to the Mid-East will change forever.
user picture

Member for

14 years 8 months
Permalink

Because Israel has announced new settlements in Gaza & the West Bank. Imagine in ten years when the US will no longer be that interested in the Middle East? Perhaps the 5 billion dollars a year in foreign aid to Israel can be used for more worthwhile causes within our own country.
user picture

Member for

17 years 2 months
Permalink

I hope you west coasters are doing okay with all the rain these past few days. The moisture has moved mostly northeast due to the jet stream and the strong gulf air pushing dry air north through the great plains, where we're setting high temp records. We can't buy a raindrop in eastern Kansas. Colorado ski resorts are hurting for snow. What snowfall amounts are registering in the Cascades and Sierras?
user picture

Member for

14 years 8 months
Permalink

You would be a good one to enter this Dogfish contest.
user picture

Member for

14 years 8 months
Permalink

I never condone violence. I only highlight this to show how pissed-off people are that the government is going to screw with our medicare and social security benefits, raising the retirement age to 67. Not a done deal you say? We elected Obama and he'll save the day you say? Don't count on it. The Democrats are going to cut a deal eventually that will include these provisions. Why do i know this? Because Democratic spokespeople like Howard dean are saying it already. Screw that and screw the democrats. We worked hard to retire at 65 and and NOBODY should be able to take that from us. All people who have their heads buried in the sand and don't listen to the news or have anything to do with politics? LISTEN! You won't be able to retire at 65 anymore unless you're in the top five percent of income earners. Are you? Do you have a combined income of more than 250k a year and have planned so well for retirement that you don't need these two things? Well aren't you special! I need them. I worked hard for them. This whole drama of the fiscal cliff is a bad morality play with bad actors and a bad script!!!