Campaign 2008 - Who Do You Like?

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January 4, 2008 - 10:21am

580 replies

marye

Joined:
May 26, 2007

Here and there in the forums people are expressing their enthusiasm for particular candidates in the upcoming U.S. elections, while others are saying Enough Already, We Don't Want To Hear About It. So, this is the right place to discuss your favorites (or non-favorites) and other matters relevant to the campaign. If you're not into it, skip this topic! And as for all you non-U.S. residents, if you want a similar topic for what's going on in your part of the world, speak up and I'll start it. Thanks!

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January 11, 2008 - 11:36am

#491

SwickLogan

Joined:
June 14, 2007

:)

Very interesting set of viewpoints... I am not sure who I am voting for (Michigan primary 1-15-08), but I am sure not voting for Hillary Clinton. I have been told that I am not listening to her viewpoint OR she is a woman, Are you afraid of her becoming President? The answer to both are no, I am listening and that is why she will not get my vote. She has made many promises and kept zero. She has changed her mind at the last minute on multiple topics, never to apologize, only to abondon the folks she strung along. I am not hear to bash her, there are enough web pages to do that... I just wanted to add my 2 cents - btw... I love that about the Dead community - I can say what I want and will always be considered part of the 'family'. In response to jobs moving overseas… I think that this is actually a good thing, BUT we need to educate ourselves for the new wave of high tech jobs coming our way. A good book on the matter is The World Is Flat (Friedman). In response to enabling the poor… Give a man a fish and after he eats half, he will throw the other half away. Teach a man to fish and after he eats half a fish, he will remember the effort involved with ‘earning’ the fish and figure out a way to preserve it for later… Me Everyone needs help sometimes... I remember a friend once told me that they had been on tour for some time and had run out of money - They went to the Spaghetti truck guy (GD Parking lot - show unknown) after not eating for a few days and asked him if he could spare a plate for them to share - The guy hooked them up with all that they could eat. I know that this does not go along with my adage above, but I thought it was a good story. I may vote for CCj, but maybe for Mike Lookinland. He is Bobby Brady from the Brady Buch TV Show. I met him at a show (Buffalo 199x, I think)... Although, I did not beleive him when he told me who he was. Then I was watching a show (Where are they now) about kid actors from the day, when there he was on TV and said that he had followed the Dead for some time following his acting career. So Mike may get my vote - If nothing more than an apology for not beleiving you. I beleive you now!
January 11, 2008 - 4:08am

#492

hackster

Joined:
June 4, 2007

Ron Paul.and, here's an

Ron Paul. and, here's an interesting take on the ol' quote- "It is not the person who votes that counts, it is the person who counts the vote." (supposedlyattributed to Jos. Stalin)... HOW TO HACK AN LHS VOTE MACHINE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiiaBqwqkXs =================== moc.swencigolyzzuf.www ===================
January 10, 2008 - 11:41pm

#493

Hal R

Joined:
June 13, 2007

Nice thoughtful and not discussions here

I like the mix of the serious analysis and the zany on this topic here. I have a lot (too much probably) to say on both levels but not tonight. I just took an amazing tour of the only distillery in the State of Washington and along with others asked a ton of questions after we sampled the gin and vodka. Very tasty. Just opened this fall. Called Dry Fly Distilling. Time to smile and listen to some Grateful Dead. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
January 10, 2008 - 7:36pm

#494

Mr. Pid

Joined:
December 22, 2007

No, empower the poor

Provide them with the tools to improve their own lives, and a meaningful reason to use them. Enable their ability to participate and remove incentives to fail. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in blaming the economically challenged for their condition, and I'm certainly not here as an apologist for the likes of Cheney and his Hallliburton pals. As far as I'm concerned, they really ought to be strung up by their thumbs. And Ken Lay got off easy dying before he spent a day in prison. I was hoping he'd live to be 100 in someplace more live Leavenworth than Allenwood. He would have made the perfect poster boy for why you don't screw people over. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that for me it's about personal freedom through individual empowerment and personal responsibility. Corporations, in and of themselves can actually do nothing. They require managers to make them act, and those managers, unlike the corporations, are actual living, breathing people who do need to be personally taken to task when they behave badly. Just like welfare cheats. I am certainly not a fan of the amount of spending undertaken by the US government, and the portion of that spending on all things military is without question excessively disproportionate to the need. Transforming assets into things you intend to destroy makes little economic sense to begin with. I'm familiar with Ike's speech, and concur wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, given the current state of thinking among some of the occupants of the world, a certain amount of military spending is going to be unavoidable. On rare occasions, there are even socially worthwhile side effects to that spending. This medium that we're using to communicate with was once called the arpanet, named for the agency that funded its creation, along with far more nefarious things like laser guided bombs and ICBMs. There's good and bad in everything. I never meant to imply that social service and support systems should be dismantled, but I do think that it's reasonable to see if we can't find ways to make them work more effectively so that we all get more of a bang for our collective buck, and that those of us who are currently disenfranchised are less likely to remain so. Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
January 10, 2008 - 6:11pm

#495

Golden Road

Joined:
June 5, 2007

Poll Madness

I love the "soft support" line... "All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him."
January 10, 2008 - 5:54pm

#496

c_c

Joined:
June 4, 2007

hmmm

does Bill secretly hate Hillary? whatever. but I think he LOVES the idea of a longer Clinton legacy in the White House more than anything, that and the fact that she would make history by being the first woman. If Hillary is the rock, Monica was in a hard place. ( -; ok, I will not start with the cigar jokes. but back on OUR topic, I would like to ask gypsysoul to be my 'Co-President' in the formerly known as the White House; future Tie Dye House. no VICES here. ( -: peace.
January 10, 2008 - 5:45pm

#497

jerry_garcia71

Joined:
November 24, 2007

Endorsements

John Kerry endorsed Obama over his 2004 running mate Edwards..... Didn't Bill & Hillary Clinton endorse Kerry in 2004? I think Bill secretly despises Hillary and the Democrats will politely start to distance themselves from Hillary and side with Barack. Poor Bill is between a rock and a hard place. Also nice to see my union, the SEIU is stepping up to the plate as well as the Culinary Workers Union to endorse Obama.
January 10, 2008 - 4:29pm

#498

Golden Road

Joined:
June 5, 2007

Here! Here!

(GR stands and applauds) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenhower#Post-presidency On January 17, 1961, Eisenhower gave his final televised Address to the Nation from the Oval Office.[22] In his farewell speech to the nation, Eisenhower raised the issue of the Cold War and role of the U.S. armed forces. He described the Cold War saying: "We face a hostile ideology global in scope, atheistic in character, ruthless in purpose and insidious in method..." and warned about what he saw as unjustified government spending proposals and continued with a warning that "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex... Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together." This from a 5 star General that became President of the United States. Wow... "All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him."
January 10, 2008 - 4:00pm

#499

cosmicbadger

Joined:
June 13, 2007

Kill the poor?

Any system will be exploited by some people; cheating on welfare, fiddling tax returns, stealing pension funds, breaking into concerts without tickets! That does not necessarily mean that the system should be scrapped or is necessarily wrong. The problem we have is that making any system perfect costs too much in terms of cash and loss of individual freedom. But it’s always the poor who get the blame! If you are worried about your tax dollars being misused then why not look at what you are paying to sustain the industrial-military complex that runs our societies! I would suggest that for every dollar misappropriated by the poor, a thousand are stolen from you by the rich. But since everyone wants to be rich and successful, the sins of the wealthy are forgiven quicker than those of the poor! Back to the jokes I think.
January 10, 2008 - 3:10pm

#500

Mr. Pid

Joined:
December 22, 2007

Giving vs. Investing

I think another way of assessing Steve-O's frustration goes like this: Social systems that help people up to self-sufficiency are good and worthwhile investments that benefit everyone. Social systems that keep people down by enabling dependence are bad investments that ultimately benefit no one. There needs to be an element of personal incentive left in these programs, so that they can provide a path to help people get on track, but not provide enough to keep them on track in and of themselves. Oh, and Barbara? You got $1500 AND you got to go to Stanford? Congratulations, you're a very lucky person. That's a much better deal than I ever got, and I'm glad to see that the $1500 investment in you that we all contributed to is paying off. Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.

Here and there in the forums people are expressing their enthusiasm for particular candidates in the upcoming U.S. elections, while others are saying Enough Already, We Don't Want To Hear About It. So, this is the right place to discuss your favorites (or non-favorites) and other matters relevant to the campaign. If you're not into it, skip this topic! And as for all you non-U.S. residents, if you want a similar topic for what's going on in your part of the world, speak up and I'll start it. Thanks!

grrrrr

SUPERHAL!

Not only a propaganda trick

It's also an old marketing trick. It even has an acronym: FUDFear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Used widely in IT marketing. IBM used to rely on it heavily. Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.

Propaganda Trick #2

"GIVE me an F- GIVE me an U-GIVE me an C- GIVE me an K-..........What's that spell?????" sorry, guys, love ya, just can't help myself sometimes........nothing left to do...but smile, smile, smile.....xoxox Gypsy Cowgirl, alias revolutionary grandma?

i dunno

i just thot there should have been more cookies and cake available by now, along with the odd vat of beer thrown in .....um........just because.....(heeheehee)

Yes, it is an old trick,

Yes, it is an old trick, renewed about 8 years ago and being put to rest as we speak. It seems it created only distrust, conflict, and the demise of the ideals of the founders of this nation. This is a time for rebuilding and I applaud Hal for his part in upholding these ideals at this time.peace, pk

guess i'll stir things up a little

instead of being a wiseass. as i stated before the good senator became president-elect i don't trust him, but neither did i trust the mccain camp. having said that, "the demise of the ideals of the founders" almost paraphrases pajak's earlier post but from a different point of view. there is in the works a plan that may very well cause that. i won't, at this time, point to which section of the bill of rights that i'm speaking of, but i will wait and see, however i DO think there are alot of unanswered questions about the soon to be president's agenda.....we'll see.....

The Chosen One

Has anyone found out yet where the $60 million went that was dowled out for Ayers by the Chosen One? Oh yea, I forgot it went for "educational purposes" and it was such a huge job that Acorn helped him out. Am I the only one who feels there is something wrong about not being able to pass a security backround check but still qualifying to be president of our country? It's a heavenly miracle! Even Ayers gets a good job!

actually

I'm more offended by the existence of security background checks than by anyone's inability to pass one.

INDEED

marye. You can say that again.********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens

bravo, marye!!

hear!hear!

The Chosen One

Wasn't that Dubya? God spoke to him or something?

Perspective

I guess during the era of the Chosen One accountability doesn't matter and anything goes. Good thing for Sen Dodd & Franks! Looks like socialism isn't going to be our only big change. People should wake up and stop blaming Bush for everything. As bad as he was, he did not do it all! The one good thing he did was keep us safe.

Elections over!!!!

Can we try supporting the new president before we condem him. Please

Right on Steve-O

The election is OVER-Can't please all the people all the time......No one seemed to condemn or impeach Bush...how weird is that? this topic should just go awayGypsy Cowgirl

agree

4 EVVV OAR

i agree....the election is over

but cmon, people have been condemning bush all along (deservedly, mind you).....mebbe mite help if this topic.....went awaaaayy...from the forum!!

you said it Steve-O

thanks If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake

When Bush was declared the winner his first election

I made efforts to show him respect and hoped that all would go well. Especially after 911, I hoped that we would be able to unify as a country/people. Other liberals also made efforts (if you recall) to not be 'sore losers' (Gore did conceed) etc. etc. And then Bush was elected to a second term. And do you really think there wasn't hope from many americans (even those of us on the left) that he would do well? There is such a thing as demonstrating an ability to applaud the efforts of the victor, even when it isn't your guy/team. We have made a practice of that after Nebraska football games and our home crowd stands and applauds the opposing team, win or lose (and have applauded more than we would have liked lately). That is one of the lessons of athletics, to be able to be humble in victory or defeat. In order to embrace the truth, one must have the ability to recognize when the opponent has outmatched you. And you can demonstrate respect for that person. Shit, Bush himself has made glowing comments about Obama of late, but there is an concurrent inability for others on the right to gracefully accept the will of the people and continue to vilify Obama before he even gets sworn in? And if McCain had won and the left was doing this to him, what would you say? Blaming and attacking him before he even took office? Please! You wouldn't stand for it. The devisiveness and intense partisainship that has marked the last 20 years doesn't serve this republic well, but talk show hosts on the right and the left love to drum up the hate. It makes them $ and whips their audience into an intolerant frenzy. Is that really what this country is all about? No wonder so many of the founding fathers were resistive to a system of political parties. My liberal friends made excuses for Clinton and I rebuked Clinton as well as admonishing my friend's double standards for Clinton's duplicity, hypocricy, and inattention to the nation's work that wasn't being done. My conservative friends made excuses for Bush and I rebuked Bush and admonished my friend's double standards for Bush's duplicity, hypocricy, and inattention to the nation's work that wasn't being done. I know when I get on my soap box, on my high horse, I generally fall off. It is a good thing I have a hard head. Luckily I believe that some of those posting so negatively on Obama have hard heads as well, because you all have landed repeatedly on your noggin since the election. I have had alot of practice at learning to lose, because the candidates I support so rarely have won. Maybe you just need more practice at losing to learn to lose with some dignity. Take a page from John McCain, or even George Bush. Look at the example of their response to the election and the respect they convey when discussing Obama. AND you can't have a tug of war with me, because I am on the same side of the rope as you are. IF you are for freedom, equality, justice, pursuit of happiness, etc. all those principles that this country was founded on. Or I could be wrong. The Truth is realized in an instant, the act is practiced step by step.

The Oroboros Soapbox

pretty fine words there my friend If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake

Solemnly they stated

this forum has to dieYou know it has to die And when the day had ended With rainbow colours blended Their minds remained unbended so this forum has to die You know it has to die

Absolutely brilliant

post, Oroboros! Fine piece indeed.********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens

Very wise words indeed

A beautiful and eloquent post, Oroboros. Those ideals that you layed out are what makes our country, America, a great country and an inspiration to much of the world. I believe you are expressing the hope and dreams the founding fathers put in motion. America is a work in progress. And the foundation must be strong, as I believe it is, and we must build upon those ideals, and work together to shape this country in order to form a more perfect union. We must unite and realize we are one people, and reach out to each other to both teach and learn, and then we will all grow, and the country will grow. If you look at the ideals that Oroboros has talked about here, as he said, we are really all in agreement, so the foundation is there. So let's all work together to build America into a better place brick by brick. I am happy that we have a leader that has assembled a staff that is from all sides of the spectrum in order to form a more perfect union.

heehee

bill clinton, attilla the hun, and st. christopher walk into a bar.........

freezing this topic

frankly, I'm reluctant to freeze a topic people still want to talk in, particularly when they do so as well as Oroboros just did. I would say, rather, as it says in the topic header, that if you're not into this topic, just let it go by. Thanks!

gosh, marye

why do you insist on making sense?

Dead Horses

Yay Oroboros-you did very well......but I'm glad that grdaed73 agrees w/ me....this forum has to die.....it's like trying to revive a Dead Horse....well, like Marye says above......I'll just skip over it & be on my merry way! xoxox Gypsy Cowgirl

Dead Horses?

Post vote whining is easy to doBut the pols are elected, and chosen by you McCain and Obama, they dealt different hands The counting's all over, you know where it stands Dead horses, they just won't go away Dead, dead horses, just won't go away I see that some aren't pleased how it went Now they've decided they still need to vent No calm acceptance of the new status quo It might just be better to just let it go Dead horses, they just won't go away Dead, dead horses, just won't go away I know we all dreamed the best for our guy But only one wins. I'm sure you know why. The choice has been made. It's time to move on. Let's just be happy the last clowns are gone. Dead horses, they just won't go away Dead, dead horses, they'll quiet someday. Dead horses, they just won't go away Dead, dead horses, they'll quiet someday. Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.

brilliant, Mr. P!

a classic...

Hey wow.

Hey wow. I've been meditating on my previous post to the message board last October. The result is, after I've been labeled as meanspirited and paranoid, probably called a few other things, this darkstar isnt putting anymore energy into shows around here and hasnt been. Who cares? Does it really matter? No, do you care? I dont care. Does anyone care. Tigerlily, do you wanna care about any of this? The replies I got were an insight as to how deadheads can really think,feel, act and can be ,generally, towards anyone they are talking with,It doesnt seem to matter who people are. Thats just a heads up.Why should I put any energy into this, when people are like that? The same as anywhere else.Which is what I wanted to say in the first place. I'm not supporting any of this. Who cares. Thats my peace.

I wanna care

DannyC. Reread your post from October, and the responses to it. Why'd you ask me in particular? Can you be more specific about your insight into how Deadheads really think?********************************** Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. Mark Twain