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    marye
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    In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.

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  • TigerLilly
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    Hey Joe Loose-Goose from Darkstar
    You are indeed, and thank goodness for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Think is even the first time have seen you question anybody about their post.********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens
  • c_c
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    old school
    I guess I am too old school to enjoy 'pushing buttons' or dealing with people who do. I am from the old school of acceptance and tolerance of whoever and whatever people want to get through the night, if your bag is pushing buttons, cool for you. if a guy calls me a fucking asshole hippie freak, I say 'so what' if people say blah blah blah, I say, 'cool' I never say I am from America when meeting people in other lands, I always say I am from DarkStar. Where is that?? it is at the end of Shakedown Street, near Terrapin Station. peace.
  • c_c
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    2 wrongs make a right??
    I am as loose as a goose, dude.
  • 00
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    Irish
    My father’s sides of the family are Irish. My grandmother is a Conway!!! I also have Carraways in the house as well. CCJ, i am talking about a conversation i had with people actually from Ireland. Irish people=people from Iraland who i was getting plastard with the other night. This is not the first time that i have heard just how stupid Americans are coming out of an Irish person’s mouth. Actually they have a point because most Irish nationals work as computer programmers in the States or for American companies around the world because "Americans are too stupid to fill the job requests." Yes they have a point but after a lot of Whisky i just had to vent. Trust me i said my piece that night with all smiles and bad irish music etc etc. Please dont take me so serious as i like to push buttons somtimes and say what is on my mind without thinking twice sometimes. Shit losen up.
  • c_c
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    dude
    Trifecta, dude, saying 'fuck the Irish' or any group of people, for that matter is totally un-cool. drunk or not, in my world, you would get a sock in the mouth for that. (not a punch 'sock', but a stinky, disgusting, dirty old sweat sock to shut up comments like that) good you apologized. I ain't even Irish, and it was pretty beat to read that kind of crap. peace.
  • iknowurider
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    Well Said
    zig zag man! PEACE
  • 00
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    Sorry
    Sorry I was a bit intoxicated during that last entry and maybe I should go visit the Wharf Rats after than one. woooooooo. Anyway I think I need to put this to bed as it is following me everywhere I go and I am hearing the most ridicules stories and interpretations on all fronts. I had another conversation with this lady the other night who said that God saved her father’s life and her brothers. She named the priest who gave her family the blessings but could not remember the doctor’s name!! Well sorry if there was a god then he brought the horrible disease on to her family. God controls everything right? And it was the individual doctors who saved her family's life. And I am glad he did. We forget what is in front of our face and veer off in some mystical dream state because of Religion. Religion poisons everything. (God is not Great, How Religion Poisons Everything, Chris Hitchens) US best seller all of last year.This is what I mean. This way of thinking in 2008 is completely up surd and needs to be corrected. CCJ I loved that as it is so true. The Vatican is the biggest land holder in the world and is a shareholder in many companies who we would proclaim to be immoral. Diamond minds ring a bell? Little Bri "The only thing that separates us from other mammals is that we are the only ones to come up with the idea of a future, thus, the human race grew." Right! We are also the only living organisms who know we are going to die. And of course this is not comfortable and I myself am not comfortable with this and I try to ponder the thought of me not being here and then come to the thought that there will be no thought so who’s to say I thought!!!!! Wow!! We need to always have a reason and a way to explain. That’s us Humans for ya. But this causes problems when we make up our own reality. Man Made Religion has caused the human race to focus on something that is unattainable and to forget that what gave us life is that polluted river over there, or the smog filled air that we are breathing, or the climate that we evolved in. Sorry that river over there that we polluted gave us life and the air which was clean at one time gave us life not some fictional character out of a man made and absurd book! This shit is killing me because I really had more hope that people had come to their senses. I mean come on. I am not content that I will just die and then there is nothing. I wish there was as I would love to hang out in a cloud and feel euphoria etc. I am still looking for something solid to believe in and am in search for more Mayan foundations etc because they were right!! Not the slaughtering part, but they were right that our star that we call the sun is GOD as it has given us life. Kinich Ahau I am here bro and thank you for looking down on me and causing the molecules to bounce at such speeds that my form is visible. But then again many societies had their Sun gods and we should probably have our own, but then us crazy humans would probably try to …………………………………… Ok enough. Peace.
  • zig zag man
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    Godisnowhere
    Godisnowhere (God is now here) and always is. God is in the trees, the wind , the snow, you know where I'm going with this right? I have never found God in a building (ie a Church) I know he's there , I've seen other people find him there, I found him in nature, every day so that where I go to church now, every day.
  • c_c
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    The Lord's Prayer
    During a Papal audience, a business man approached the Pope with this offer: Change the last line of the Lord's prayer from "Give us this day our daily bread" to "Give us this day our daily chicken." and KFC will donate 10 million dollars to Catholic charities every year. The Pope declined. Two weeks later the man approached the Pope with a yearly 50 million dollar offer. Again the Pope declined. A month later the man offers a yearly 100 million to charities. This time the Pope accepts. At a meeting of the Cardinals, The Pope announces his decision. "The good news is we have 100 million dollars for our charities every year. The bad news is that we lost the Wonder Bread account."
  • littlebri
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    Partly true Trifecta
    I kind of agree when you say that religion is man made. When you think of it, we all came from the same place, plants, animals, humans whatever, we are all connected as we all started out the same. The only thing that seperates us from other mammals is that we are the only ones to come up with the idea of a future, thus, the human race grew. There were more ideas like this one to come along as a sort of subsystem for the future. To me, religion is just another little subsystem that make up the future. It's like that one atom that multiplied to create the human race. Because of this, I have always thought that the idea of religion is not really about any sort of God. To me it is what you believe in the end that is true and you follow one God because that's what you saw somebody else believe to be true. So in a sense, religion is just your own idea, or the idea of another. For example, if you believe that life after death is to go to Heaven, than you will end up in your own sort of idea of Heaven. If you believe that life after death is to come back in another life, then you would do just that. Maybe you think that it is a combination of the two ideas, and your idea of Heaven is just to live the life of cat, then that is where you will ultimately be. It is also with this idea that we have to be kind to the earth as we are all just a subsystem in another subsystem in another subsystem... The earth is seamless, meaning that everything we do as an individual affects everything else on this pretty 'lil planet of ours... Peace and love to all, ~littlebri
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In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.
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I always thought of Hunter's lyrics as this:when a person reckons something they are essentially assuming. You can make all the assumptions that you want, but in the end what do you really know? As the saying goes you should never assume because it makes an ASS out of U and ME. The only other reasoning that I saw fit is when you think of the definition of reckoning - to account for something - mostly this is used with regard to physical items, but can also be used in a non tangible way, ie: to be accountable for yourself. Due to the personal nature of the song I always held these to be more evident. Again, I think that Barlow's version of reckoning is being used more in the intangible sense. He speeks of a reckoning that we bring upon ourselves. I think his lyrics are based more around the concept of karma otherwise we can expect to bring a reckoning upon ourselves... definitely more apocolyptic: I'm dumpin' my trash in your back yard Makin' certain you don't notice really isn't so hard You're so busy with your guns and all of your excuses to use them. Well, it's oil for the rich and babies for the poor, We got everyone believin' that more is more, If a reckoning comes, maybe we will know what to do then This is the great thing about music though, is that everyone interprets it differently. ~littlebri
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there is a well established method of navigation called dead reckoning, which basically means using maps/charts and a compass and the occasional application of a parallel rule and a pair of dividers. Of course, if your compass always points to Terrapin... Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
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Thanks for the thoughtful words. Maybe I was not looking for the obvious!However, it does seem that "The Reckoning" is like this primal turning point when all is laid bare. These days, after I (rarely) indulge in a lungful of ~kind~, I always get a dose of reckoning. I mean, no joke! All I can say is I should shut my mouth and just be kind. You're right though, everybody does interpret in a different way.
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If you have an intact Reckoning LP, look at photo on the sleeve, you'll see.Now that Jerry has passed early, this takes on a different, very Christian kind of meaning. I mean, you could go there if predisposed. But, I believe it is just Jerry's humorous antic on some boring afternoon. A little deeper? Maybe a comment on the middle class suburbia he is dragging the cross through, I mean look at all those little pink houses for you and me. A little deeper? (Here is the middle road) This is Jerry's way of saying "I'm the leader of the hippie tribe of psychedelia and I have no choice about my job!" A little deeper? He died for everybody's hedonistic excess. He took our hedonism upon himself, day-to-day, just lettin' it ride, for a lot of years. Don't like these? What say ye? You know I'm ready to give everything for anything I take
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Can anyone scan a photo of the inside LP art you were talking about? Lost all my cd/tapes to the ex. Thanks ____________________________________________________ Will you come with me? Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right!
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I agree when you said "The Reckoning" is like this primal turning point when all is laid bare." No matter how we interpret "reckoning" it is when we are in our most vulnerable state, everything really is laid bare. There are so many things that picture could be. I always looked at it and believed that we are the only thing that stands in the way of what we want. Everything comes back to your attitude and the way you perceive things. Once you sort of have this realization and practice it, the bones no longer stand in your way and your mind and your heart are syncronized with each other creating this sort of "enlightened" view of life. I think that was the artist's interpretation of life, and it's a lot easier to get through when you have joy. Then it really is a ride. ~littlebri
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nice avatar. I love Jesus too. check out: greateststoryevertold.org Jesus Loves You The Best! greateststoryevertold.org
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I had experienced some pretty bad trauma in a "new religious movement" at the end of my teens. Most of you would know these groups as "cults". Several of you likely have had positive experiences with this particular group known as the Hare Krishna movement. I spent four years involved with that group. Met some really nice people, met others that were "not so nice". I split and moved to the Haight Ashbury after that and became immersed in the culture of the neighborhood. I started to go to shows and found myself deeply moved by the music and the community. Going to shows was/is like going to church for me (but not as a rabid convert). The shows really helped me re-create my self. The shows were the only place that I could legitimately re-integrate with not just a sub-culture, but with the greater society, in the ways that are acceptable to me. I have a strong aversion to religion. Hopefully, the summer tour of 2009 will help me relax, enjoy the moment, and see what we can create... Peace, Jim
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i'm sorry you had such a bad experience....when dealing with zealots things can be very unpleasant......but i DO know........it's about faith.......and i don't insist that others feel the same, just accept that i do...... i need some shows too!!
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absolutely Amazing!!! love and peace.
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What a great Amazing Grace, don't think I've heard it before. Make me wish even more an album of Jerry Gospel could be put out and the proceeds donated to charity.
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I'd buy it!
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I joined this site to see if i could find any information from Robert Hunter concerning a song he crafted (but have loved Grateful Dead since my 18th summer, that of '72). It was a wonderful tune; i was astonished that he was the author, as i had not been aware of any connection between him and the subject -- although i knew he was a Piper, from a tune/word poem from his album, Tales of the Great Rum Runners. That too was a fine piece, i still recall snippets of the words -- accompanied by a lone piper, himself -- the words concerned the birth of a child: be sure you cut it [umbilical cord] with a sharp blade; and, in that moment "all eternity comes clear." I played the tune for me father, an accomplished piper, and i still recall the growing wonder [i mean, who could blame him?] on his face, til he beamed: "This is Excellent Piping!" I happened to do a word search on youtube: grateful dead chieftains, because i knew jerry had actually interviewed their main guy on the radio in SF back when. The only search result was "The Ballad of Ronnie Drew." The opening verse: Here's to the Ronnie, the voice we adore Like coals from a coal bucket scraping the floor Sing out his praises in music and malt And if you're not Irish, that isn't your fault ___________________ (in your case it is!) _________________ The song is a beautiful tribute to a man of worth, sung by a whole bunch of UNSELFCONSCIOUSLY good people. Hoping to find some information from Mr. Hunter [grandson of Scottish Presbyterian Minister, I hear] how he came to know Mr. Drew, what was his involvement in the project, i entered "irish" as a search term. What is the hit? fuck the irish. this was a post by the moderator? fucking bloody hell. you enlightened self-consciously positive ditzes are really dumb.
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is Children's Lament on Rum Runners. Googling it will get you the full lyrics, and there is indeed much comment on this being a rare example of Hunter's bagpipe playing. As to the abuse in your last sentence, I am the moderator, I did not make that post (for one thing, my sainted grandmother Bessie Callaghan would return from the grave and smite me upside the head), and it is the nature of the search tool to bring up whatever uses of the word exist on this system regardless of who posted them. I will therefore attribute your name-calling apparently directed at the folks hereabouts as a mistake born of misunderstanding and let it go, but we don't do that here. Thank you.
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inner hebridean you may find these words written by Hunter interesting: Willy Morris Lyrics: Robert Hunter Music: Robert Hunter I'm a vagabond evangelist with a mighty healing touch I'm one-half fighting Irish and one-half double Dutch My name is Willy Morris I preach the revalation I'm a rough-and-ready rider in the service of the Kingdom When I call the power down short men stand up taller the lame and halt kick up their heels, the dumb begin to holler Upon the stage I strut my stuff with sanctifying grace Righteousness within my soul and rapture on my face Don't turn away Step up and see what I can do when you believe I was born a Jersey boy My folks had wealth and pull One thing about good people they do get dreadful dull When I took up testifying they said: Don't bring us shame If you work this country, son be sure and change your name The Lord wants you to dress in style and drive the very best Long as you take care of me, I'll take care of the rest One thing about the Kingdom since it always Kingdom Come I get by on glory be plus tambourine and drum Don't turn away Step up and see what I can do when you believe I'm honest as the people who admit to being saved yet grow as mean as any weed on any beggar's grave Squirm, you sinners, howl and moan The devil is your due But if you will take care of me I will take care of you I'm a vagabond evangelist with a mighty healing touch I'm one-half fighting Irish and one-half double Dutch My name is Willy Morris I preach the revalation I'm a rough-and-ready rider in the service of the Kingdom Don't turn away Step up and see what I can do when you believe when you believe when you believe actually, quite suitable for this, religious space. and, innerhebrideadn, please, no more name calling or abuse toward anybody, let alone to our darling marye.
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Don't worry MaryE ! I'll be more than happy to take care of this rude rude person. And the road goes on forever.... BobbaLee
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Hey Now All Just wanted to wish a Happy Holy Week to all my brothers in sisters in Christ For those traveling and attending shows in the next few weeks may you be safe The Cat
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easter week is the celebration of the basis of the christian religion. the rebirth of Christ! i wanna wish a happy easter to all, everyone, here and the world over...whether you believe or not, peace be with you!!
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And when the chief Shepard shall appear, ye shall recieve a crown of glory that FADETH NOT AWAY. 1Peter,5:4 Thank you Jesus Peace to all Have a great tour
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As I felt the Earth reach up to grab me my heart nearly leaped out of my shirt. Turning my gaze Heavenward I listened , straining my soul to hear the spoken word. No word came. Loosing my grip on what my foundation seemed to be was never an option before. I had not prepared myself for what I did not know was possible. No forethought came to my rescue in that moment which was held together only by the dry rotted chords of my broken expectations and past experiences stored together in a messy heap. What was I thinking? Was I able to see what my mind had never perceived with the clarity of already always knowing? What we do not know about others is what shaped their experience. Which thought connected with which event at which point in their own circular existence? Unless we knew this miraculous bit of information, which even the individual experiencing it can not locate in their own string of synapses, we would not be able to assist them. That is why it is important to remember to have Tolerance. We might not be as evolved as we think we are. Deity is in between Realities we all are experiencing just waiting for us to let go of what we think we know so we can start learning. Our own perception is what gives it a name so we can access the file at a later date and relive the experience of contact. Dropping the definitions we cling to and accepting the value of the experience is essential if we are to develop tolerance for what others outside of our selves are experiencing. Please love each other as individuals not equals, better than, or lesser. These are the definitions that divide and give rise to subconscious prejudice based living. Love is the Key to Tolerance. Be good to each other. Blessings to you all.
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I am a christian and a deadhead. I believe that Jesus died for all of us and that he was a real person. He WAS God in the human flesh. Whether you understand it or not it is the truth. The grateful dead scene is a way (if you understand "the dead".... which requires a certain open mindness that many have) that people can experience what god wanted for all of us. At a show ( sadly these places are not the same any more) you can understand.... IF YOU HAVE THE DESIRE TOO. YOU HAVE TO WANT TRUE WISDOME. I have studied many religions and they all make "sense" in a certain light. If you have ever had that certian grateful dead/JERRY experience you know what I mean. Yes, Phish and other jambands can take you to "that" certian place. But it is NOT EVEN CLOSE the hights that can be reached when the Grateful dead are on top of YOUR game. Phish and other jambands can provide psychadelic bliss....no doubt. But it is that psychadelic happiness and certain "place" that no other band can create. It is through this "place" that you can (and many of us do) see "the light". IF YOU DON"T BELIEVE IN GOD YOU ARE NOT A TRUE DEADHEAD! I know so many people that love the dead and don't believe in GOD. If you don't see the beauty of god when you listen to the dead....YOU ARE JUST A DEADHEAD!. You are simply a person that listens to amazing music. I know Jerry would not back me on this point, but he knows now. Let the dead point you toward the truth. It's amazing what they can do when you have "been there" and continue listening....clean. Jerry had no idea how great of a spiritual leader really was. He pointed strait towards God... whether you like it or not. You all are wonderful! Listen!
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sigh........ oh well there's yet another reason why I am not a true deadhead.... thanks Woodruff for helping me and my fellow lesser beings understand our place in the world. Maybe I should say that if you make bullying judgemental divisive pronouncements about people you don't know then you are not a true Christian....but I won't.
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CB. And will bite back a whole bunch of other comments, cuz I can see that woodruff means to be peaceful with that post-though I do take offense at the way some things are written.********************************** It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
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Some time back I was working in the Middle East. My local counterpart was a really nice young guy, and a very devout and serious Muslim. We got on well because we both liked the work we were doing and did not let our different backgrounds get in the way of that. Sometimes he did get a bit preachy though, and often told me that he felt sorry for me, because of the hellish torments that awaited non believers like me in the next world. One day he was driving along the highway far too fast, lecturing me about saving my soul and not paying attention to the road, when a truck up ahead slammed on its brakes. I noticed what had happened and yelled at him to stop; he looked up and braked very late, we went into a long, heartstopping, scary skid and stopped inches short of the back of the truck. He pulled over, as we were both shaken up. If I had not shouted we would have slammed into the truck for sure. I was quite angry and told him this: “ It’s alright for you buddy, if we get mashed up on the highway you get to go to paradise, but, as you keep telling me, I am bound for the eternal pains of hell. So how about being a friend, driving more carefully and letting me stay around to enjoy this world a little longer?” He thought about it, laughed, apologised, drove a lot more carefully from then on and eased up a bit on the preaching too.
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wonderful post friend badger, and i sincerely admire the restraint you and pal tigerlily are displaying. as you both know i struggle with my faith on a daily basis. each morning i remind myself "the lord will provide" and he always does, and each time it surprises me in it's simple truth. i'm sure god has pointed me to my fellow deadheads as people of understanding the same as he gives me the strength to attend mass. i can agree with woodruff480's post, but only because we all look at god in a different way, and we may not even call "it" "god". it's all part of the "one" i guess. i won't try to force jesus on you but i know he is my savior. i feel his presence now as i type this and i feel his presence in my fellow deadheads because of their kindness. after all, he was just sent here to give us all some really good advice.....love each other......please!!...........i know i hadda cookie here someplace......
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The way you look at God and religion is A. OK!!!!!!!! YOU never said things like "IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD; YOU'RE NOT A TRUE DEADHEAD"! When you talk about Mass, and your belief, is about what YOU believe, without slandering others. More Power to ya, brother johnman! And cake too!********************************** It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
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My connection to organized religion is a Christian one. I'm an active member of a Christian community (just came home from church and a deacons meeting). I am also an avid follower of the music of the Dead and find the experience to be a deeply spiritual one. I am generally comfortable with using Christian language to describe my experience of God. However, I have found insights into understanding God in Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam and countless other places, including a Dead show! Most Deadheads I talk with experience something bigger than themselves at a show. I am comfortable with calling that God, but I' ve met atheists and agnostics who have experiences similar to mine but would not call it God. This is cool with me! The important thing is that we all understand we are sisters and brothers that are part of something bigger than ourselves. One of the most important aspects of God for Christians is that God is merciful and compassionate. Jesus said "Judge not, that ye be not judged". If God does exist (which I personally believe) is it possible that God is big enough to not be concerned with our indivdual belief systems as long as we get the big picture, that we are all connected in a bigger way? Peace to you all. Treat your sisters and brothers with repect and "I know it'll come out right".
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stated more eloquently then i........and pal tiger...i do not believe woodruff was intending to be judgmental or offensive, as tphokie said have we not all found something "higher" at a show? pardon me for speaking out.....i love you all
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That woodruff had no malicious intent, thus was censoring myself quite a bit in how I responded :-)********************************** It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
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I can accept that Woodruff had no malicious intent. For me what matters is whether or not you are a righteous, kind person who tries to do the right thing and not to harm others. I have met such people of all faiths and no faiths (and likewise scary and evil people). For me goodness and kindness and transcendental experiences are related to our basic humanity, they are not the province of any one faith; there are an infinity of routes to those places. If folks find their way to there through their faith (or by any other way) then that is great, if they want to tell people about that then I have no problem. But if they want to tell me that their way is the right and only way to goodness (or to appreciating the Grateful Dead), then I get a bit antsy. That’s all. :-)
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Badger-get antsy too bout 1 way is the ONLY way'ers********************************** It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
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I would like mine baked broiled or sizzledjohnman, badger, and tiger lily style thanking you very much. Thanks you guys for ............making sense. Making sense.....helps.
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...and if you choose to believe in Love you are a Deadhead. If you choose to do evil, and go ripping people off in the parking lot for example, you are not a Deadhead and what goes around will come around. We are all unique and life and self-consciousness are true miracles and everybody has to find their own truth for themselves and it can't be forced on anybody. I believe in Jesus and all I ask is that you respect my choice and try not to hate me for it. Peace to all lovers of Love. All good things in all good time
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Toward the end of Sunday service, the Minister asked, "How many of you have forgiven your enemies?" 80% held up their hands! The Minister then repeated his question. All responded this time, except one small elderly lady. Mrs. Neely? Are you not willing to forgive your enemies? " I don't have any" she replied, smiling sweetly. Mrs. Neely that is very unusual. How old are you? "Ninety-eight" she replied. "Oh, Mrs. Neely would you please come down in front and tell us all how a person can live ninety-eight years and not have an enemy in the world? The little sweetheart of a lady tottered down the aisle, faced the congregation, and said, "I outlived the bitches."
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heeheehee......i'm not sure how to respond to that hahaa....
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good one wildstrings
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in this particular forum, and i can't find it.......but it basically said that christians are supposed to spread the word of jesus....now, HOW they do it is what i think pisses off most people. i think i said that right.....(i hope)....heehee hee
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...everybody, it's the best medicine. I think you said it right too johnman.
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Ben Stein's "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed". In it he allows the top "evolutionary fundamentalists" of the day tell us in their own words that when it comes to the origin of life they don't have a clue as to how it happened. He also shows us that if you are an accredited scientist in America today and you so much as mention the possibility of "intelligent design", you will be fired, blacklisted, denied tenure, and labelled an "intellectual terrorist" by our government. It shows that the chance of life arising on it's own seems virtually impossible.Ben's main point is that if scientists wish to explore the idea of intelligent design they should be allowed to do so without the fear of having their careers ruined in an un-American way. Why is it that such intelligent beings as ourselves are so afraid that their might be an "intelligence" greater than us?
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and I guess that's why I'm also not ready to pretend that I know. Life arising on it's own seems more likely to me than resulting from some grand design. Since there is no compelling, empirically testable evidence either way, I guess people will continue to do what they have always done: Believe whatever they want to. That seems to me to be just about right. Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
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and why deny the search? The sit back, no can do approach won't get us anywhere and I have faith that there are a lot more things to be learned out there and our scientists need the freedom to search for them. But I guess nobody gives a darn. Let it be known There is a fountain That was not made By the hands of man
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One man came out in the morning, looked up in the sky and said "The sun is the servant of the Lord, like a champion he runs his course from one end of the sky to the other" Overhearing this his neighbour replied "Don't be ridiculous, the sun is a ball of gas." The first man turned to his neighbour, smiled and said "Yup, no argument there."