Grateful Dead

The one-drummer / two-drummer conversations always interest me. I played with multiple drummers in my high school ensemble band, and as the lone drummer in half a dozen ill-fated high school and college bands. It's fundamentally impossible to play with the improvisational style that the '71 - '74 Grateful Dead did on numbers like Dark Star, The Other One, Playing in the Band, and countless jams titled Jam, with two drummers. One of them would have to be relegated to an auxiliary role, or the parts would have to be well arranged and rehearsed ahead of time; no room for improv. Take Dark Star circa 1972, for example. Changes within a performance were typically directed by Jerry, Phil, or Bill, with Bobby and Keith following (I don't hear much of Pigpen on these '72 performances - I suspect he sat out or played light percussion). If Jerry or Phil want to head in a different direction (i.e. play louder, softer, faster, slower, or introduce a new melody), one has to take the lead, the other has to follow, and the leader has to communicate with the other and the drummer, either through auditory, visual, or telekinetic queues (some argue that telekinetic queues are a more advanced form of auditory queue, but they're usually not musicians:) All of this has to happen with speed and proficiency to sound good, which is what the one-drummer version of the Grateful Dead did with pinpoint precision; they made the unrehearsed sound rehearsed. When they were on their game, they interacted like pistons in a musical engine, and Dark Star moved along with uninterrupted grace. Not to take anything away from Keith and Bobby; they played as much as anyone on these performances, they just weren't facilitating the changes quite as often (a notable exception is when Bobby ENDs Dark Star, typically with a teaser line from Sugar Magnolia, or whatever else was to come next). And that's just Dark Star. I haven't listened nearly as closely to the 1972 performances of The Other One; Bobby may very well lead more here, as it's his song. The unpredictability and originality that typified the jams of this period isn't possible with two full-kit drummers (they would end up competing with each other, which would not only sound awful, but it would also close off a good deal of the open space where the melody and color of the non-percussion instruments dwell); so a change was in order when Mickey returned. I suppose there are two ways they could have done it: one drummer could stand down and take an auxiliary role (i.e. augment the percussion sound with maracas, bongos, floor toms); or, they could go back to how they did it pre-'71, which is what they did. So, if you compare Dark Star from The Closing of Winterland (or a pre-1971 performance) to just about any Dark Star between '71 and '74, you have more of the changes revolving around melody and volume, rather than tempo and meter. Effectively, they returned to more rehearsed, tighter arrangements, and less improvisation. Take it easy folks. Whoa, whoa, whoa, but wait a second here...didn't they have difficulty finding room for TC when they had the beefed up, busy two-drummer rhythm section of 1969? You bet they did, glad you mentioned it; because TC isn't a chord player, he's a note player. TC's challenge wasn't so much having another organ player onstage in Pigpen, as it was finding the open space to PLAY in (and Pigpen was a chord player anyway, so their styles were complimentary). And if TC was a note player, and KEITH is a note player, then wouldn't Keith..have...the same problem....oh boy, I see where this is going - where is my boy Godchaux going to play with two mother-f@#ken drummers in the band? In retrospect, the demise was certain. With the resignation of the jazz-fueled, acid-drenched monster and pin-drop finesse of the 70s, and the onset of the hard-rockin' cock-swingin' machine of the 80s, Keith Godchaux's role was slowly diminished. The man could play chords in his sleep (which he eventually demonstrated:-), but he didn't thrive as a rhythm player, which was essentially what he was relegated to as the 70s wore on. Within the Dead's sonic landscape, he went from having huge open fields to run the ball in, to getting one or two at-bats a night. No doubt, the return of Mickey Hart was the snowball that started rolling towards Keith, gathering size and momentum with each passing year, until finally it swallowed him up and buried him under. How's that for drama. But yeah, Keith Godchaux, great piano player...

Brilliant analysis! The re-introduction of Mickey made it impossible to turn the corners they were navigating in 71-74. The speedboat had become a cargo ship. LOVE Mickey, but I always wonder what the band might have been like if they had stayed with the one-drummer set-up...

11/6/79

Amen.. me too, brother. I'm right there with you.

I listened to several of the suggested versions listed below. While they are all very enjoyable, I have to say I am still more of a China > Rider guy. It just rocks out more for me. And I do wish very much to be the headlight on a north bound train! Next I think I will do some comparisons on the Estimated > Eyes front Rock on

Was looking for a 77 fix. Turns out 4/26/77 + 4/27/77 are both available to watch in their entirety on youtube....and then I stumble upon this gem: Grateful Dead - Scarlet Begonias/Fire On The Mountain - 04/25/77 - Capitol Theatre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-DVSFt7_Pg the excitement grows!

Yes, although they're emailing links to stream(/dl?) the full box set, as well as a pdf of the book, to all buyers tomorrow.

Doesn't mean anything in terms of when the box will ship. It just means they don't have an exact date in October. I see lots of things on Amazon that are available for pre-order but I know won't be out until next year, and when that happens the release date is always December 31, 2015.

No charge yet for me or email about any problems. However my order is still active but says backordered still...with a shipping date of October 31?!?! What's up with that? Are they really charging us over a month before they claim to even be shipping?!

Jim forgot about the whole punk thing. It did not make it very far down south. Had a friend of a friend that had the ear, nose, cheek chain going with the green hair, but he is the only punk I remember seeing. Wonder if any of the fellas (or lady) owned any punk or metal? I know some do not like it, but I love the band's evolution. I know I read the guy talking midi saying, "why would I want to hear that crap." That is fine, have your opinion. I kinda got off the bus right as the midi was beginning so I still have not heard a ton of it. I have not even gotten a chance to open my Spring TOO box yet. My point here is the lack of respect for Jerry and the fellas in their quest to make the sound better. I am certain many people do not know how much homework went in to learning these systems. That is, from the design team all the way down to making sure all could interact with the systems in the performance. As I stated before, the Warlocks shows were my last shows and they melted the arena that night. I read the other day that people do not like the mix on the Warlocks box. I have only heard it once, our audience tapes are incredible. My first listen, I did not think it was a bad mix. Of course, I was grooving with my eyes closed so I will have to listen again. Some one commented that the cymbals were to high, from what I remember, everything sounded as it did that night, minus the intense quadraphonic sweeps. Can't wait for the Miami Meltdown and see how that was treated. I have not listened to that show in a couple of years. It is hard to recreate the quad sound as I prefer straight stereo. Does anyone have a system set up to deliver the sweeping quad sounds on their surround sound system? Again, my point is, I enjoy the different eras. Wonder would it would be like to have 500 shows of DS>Stephen>11?