Forums
Was a student there at the time. Saw the JGB in Campbell Hall (76?),With collaboration from various kind folks in the Dead.net vining community, our own erickat prepared this handy guide explaining how vining works hereabouts. Many thanks to all involved, and vine on! --
Dead.Net Vines - What It Is & How It Works
(We're changing some things for 2009)
BACKGROUND: The concept of a "vine" is music sharing through conventional means (e.g. mailing cd's or dvd's) with the sign-up list being on-line. The basic idea is that someone starts (seeds) a vine, made up of one or multiple shows,and sends it via mail to the first person who signs up. That person makes a copy for themselves and sends the ORIGINAL media on to the next person on the list. As more people sign up, it continues to grow and grow - hence the name "vine".
MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS: Make sure you can deal with the media format. Many vines are
With the 'deadenders' identified, I plan to work on
sorting through the vines I have originated, to see what I can do to reseed or 'bump' those into action. AND to not send reseeds out to those identified as the 'black holes' of the vineyard. dstache, I admire your tenacity with this inquiry and your presentation of the results of "just the facts" for us to examine.
The Truth is realized in an instant, the act is practiced step by step.
NRSP 70 Vine
RE: Dead/NRPS 1970: on 5/5 birdsong1969nj said he would mail out to test4965. No word.
I got this out later then the 5th. I think it was about two weeks ago. I will PM test to see if he got it.
Thx Derek
amazing work
big admiration for dstache.
Thanks for all the work. I reckon this will help to recover at least some of the lost treasure
Perhaps he should now be known DETECTIVE 'Stache!
But you know the news about MITD is now really worrying me. I just can't imagine him turning to the dark side. Plenty of folks must have his snail mail address..has anyone tried mailing him?
List of problem vines
I have tweaked the Vindex database to provide here a list of all Grateful Dead Vines and their status based on Dstache's deadicated data and some other notes I had. Following Dstache's classification I have given Vines a status of MIA (worst), Cause for Concern (in between) and Update Needed (least concern). Where I know about it I have also put in info about the status of a few other vines. The good news is that out of 170 Grateful Dead Vines the status is as followsMIA 30
Cause for Concern 9
Update needed 14
Lost in Post 2
Damaged 1
Frozen 4
TOTAL 60 INACTIVE VINES of which 42 (25%) are probably killed
I think that is amazingly good considering now many vines there are and how complicated it has become. Surely not a reason to abandon it and start again, since there are still around 100 Active Grateful Dead Vines.
Anyway here is the list in Alphabetical Order. Please don't be offended if you think you have been misrepresented here. Just please post what is happening.
Vine Name STATUS (Last known holder)
10/8-9/89 - Hampton Coliseum Vine FROZEN (Duplicated by Reseed Vine)
70 and 73 Vine LOST IN MAIL? (Estim8ted/Chasmo)
Augusta 10/12/84 Vine MIA (Markinthedark)
BCT '86 Vine (AKA Marye's Vine) UPDATE NEEDED (arkdeadhead or pkpotter)
Beacon Theater NYC 6/14/76 Vine MIA (j.straw)
Boston Tea Party 1969 Vine UPDATE NEEDED (Slimee)
Brent's Last Show Video Vine LOST IN MAIL? (gadeadhead or Jimmy C)
Cleveland Convention 12/6/73 Vine MIA (Deadheadben)
Cream Filling #1 1973 Vine CAUSE FOR CONCERN (Brother Tom or Solix)
Dead-NRPS 1970 Vine UPDATE NEEDED (birdsong1969nj or test4965)
Early '69 Vine CAUSE FOR CONCERN (Dave C)
Early Stuff Volume 1 Vine MIA (Markinthedark)
Early Stuff Volume 2 Vine CAUSE FOR CONCERN (Dave C)
Early Stuff Volume 3 Vine MIA (Markinthedark)
Egypt 1978 Vine FROZEN (Official Release)
Enter the Matrix Vine Vol 1 MIA (Brother Tom)
Eurovine #1 UPDATE NEEDED (Dead Man Telling Tales)
Eurovine #4 MIA (Chinacat503)
Eurovine #5 MIA (Chinacat503)
Eurovine Acoustic Special MIA (Dayglo Louisville)
Fall 79 part 1 Vine FROZEN (Due to official release)
Fall 79 part 1.5 Lovin' Rhino Vine MIA (PAPPYPGH or Solix)
Fall’77 Part 2 Vine CAUSE FOR CONCERN (Darkstar1971)
Felt Forum 1971 Vine UPDATE NEEDED (Greatfullygrateful/Arkdeadhead)
Flac Me, Flac You Vine MIA (Markinthedark)
Fox '85 Vine MIA (j.straw)
Funiculi Funicula Vine MIA (Gratefulmikes)
Glens Falls 82 Vine MIA (Sakparadise)
Greek '84 Vine MIA (Gratefulmikes)
Grugahalle 3/28/81 Vine UPDATE NEEDED (On the Road Again)
Hampton ’89 Reseed Vine MIA (j.straw)
Hampton, Harrisburg 84 Vine MIA (PAPPYPGH)
Jai Alai Miami Vine UPDATE NEEDED (EmilyJ)
Keiths First Few Months Vine UPDATE NEEDED (Gr8ful Ted)
Lewiston ME 9/6/80 Vine MIA (j.straw)
Maples Pavilion Vine MIA (Markinthedark)
March 28/31, 1973 Vine MIA (Dayglo Louisville)
Merriweather PP 6/30/85 Vine UPDATE NEEDED (fluffhead420)
More Red Rocks 9/8/83 Vine MIA( (Gratefulmikes or Deahead Ben)
MSG 93 Part 2 Vine UPDATE NEEDED (Toddsnc)
Nassau March 90 Vine CAUSE FOR CONCERN (sakparadise or Row Timmy)
Northern New England Wish Vine UPDATE NEEDED (Fluffhead420)
Nov 72 Vine MIA (Chinacat503)
NYE '83 Vine MIA (Gratefulmikes)
Orpheum Theater 7/12/76 Vine CAUSE FOR CONCERN (Darkstar1971)
Repatriation Vine #1 13 from 70 UPDATE NEEDED (Fluffhead420)
Santa Fe '83 Vine MIA (Deadheadben or Hard to Handle)
Shoreline 91 Vine UPDATE NEEDED (Chasmo)
Silver stadium 6/30/88 Vine MIA (PAPPYPGH)
Spring Tour '88 part 1 Vine CAUSE FOR CONCERN (PAPPYPGH)
Spring Tour '88 part 2 Vine CAUSE FOR CONCERN (PAPPYPGH)
Summer 82 Vine MIA (gratefulmikes)
Three from 1975 Vine MIA (Row Timmy or pkpotter)
Three from 82 and a 78 too Vine MIA (j.straw)
Valentines Day Dead Vine UPDATE NEEDED (Fluffhead420)
Warfield 2/17/82 Vine CAUSE FOR CONCERN (PAPPYGH/MarkintheDark)
Winterland 10/22/67 Vine REPORTED DAMAGED (BillyS)
Winterland 12/27/77 Vine MIA (Markinthedark)
Winterland 72/73 Vine FROZEN (Official Release)
Winterland June 7, 8, 9, 1977 Vine MIA (gratefulmikes)
Thanks again!!
Wow this is great. I really want to thank dstache (again) and cosmic badger. I think we will get this cleaned up! I just wish our government, my job etc. could come to action this quick to solve an issue!!
"Escaping through the lily fields, I came across an empty space. It rainbow then exploded, left a bus stop in its place. The bus come by and I got on, thats when it all began. It was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of the bus to never ever land"
Thanks Dstache
A few thoughts:
I echo Trevor's statement about MarkintheDark. I get the feeling that he needs our prayers more than our disdain.
I know I sound like I am beating a dead horse, no pun intended, but we really need a new topic to sort this out. Perhaps a "stalled vine" topic. Instead of usurping the New Vines topic, lets have a specific place where we can keep track of SERIOUS OFFENDERS, and also see if re-seeding is requested/necessary.
Regarding PMing those ahead. I would only do so if there is some question about the viner's continued participation. One rule I would change is that we don't PM the person preceding us until the vine is two or three spots behind. When I first began vining, I waited until right before it was getting to me to send my addy. This keeps everything fresh, and if I receive a PM soon before the vine is ready to go out, I know that the person is still active and that I have the current address.
The major problem is when people send their addy when they sign up, which can often be months before they are set to receive the vine. This is stupid. Keep track of the vines you sign up for, and when it gets close send your address. Thus, in order to receive a vine, you must not only sign up, but also send your addy soon before you are due to get it.
If you have a vine and have not received the address from the next person, then there is a good chance that person is no longer interested, even if they signed up months before. Of course, you can send a gentle reminder if you wish, but feel free to pass over the person and post what happened.
Some may complain that this will require more effort and vigilance. However, this will ensure that those willing to make the effort, will continue to vine. I believe that the status of so many vines has compelled a change in how we do things.
Thanks to everyone in the Vineyard and to MaryE.
"One watch by night, one watch by day
If you get confused, listen to the music play"
This is getting convoluted with too many ideas
Simplify:
Before you send anyone a vine PM them and make sure you get a reply before you go to the post office. Figure out a specific time period to wait for a response and the SKIP them and PM the next person until you get a LIVING willing able body who will take the baton (so to speak). This way the lines of communication will always be current and missing vines will be easier to track.
Yes Pomo1, this needs it's own topic.
Hiccup #8A Cured
Hi,
I'm on Derek's (dstaches list) for 2 vines, Early Stuff Vol. #2 and Early '69. Those vines, plus Greensboro Dead 4/12/09, finally went out on Monday. As dstache noted, I had some computer problems, exacerbated by not having my regular CD burning computer anymore due to job loss.... The job search and lack of computer and regular internet access set be back worse than I imagined would be the case, but enough excuses - once I get my life back on track I will get back on the vines and provide better updates....
Thanks and I apologize for all of the inconvenience -
DaveC
DaveC
All is well. Thank-you for your response that is all we need. Communication is key.
Dstaches, that is some amazing work. Thank-you for your time and effort. Job well done.
Cosmic Badger, once again your contributions to the vineyard are beyond thanks. Someday when I grow-up I can only wish to walk in your footsteps.
Send your prays to MarkInTheDark, I am guessing that he needs them. Please welcome him back with open arms after his dark journey is over. He will need our love and understanding.
Vine one every one.
Keep on loving and supporting each other.
Peace
Rick
it's pretty clear...
where my problem lies...
Northern New England Wish Vine: must be a mistake, I'm not even on the list
Valentines Day Dead Vine: mailed, failed to post sent
Repatriation Vine #1 13 from 70: mailed to dpwstldeadfan in May, failed to post sent
Merriweather PP 6/30/85: sent to OneGratefulDad, failed to post sent
****I have since posted accordingly in the applicable topics with the exception of the Northern New England Wish Vine for obvious reasons****
"In a bed, in a bed, by the waterside I will lay my head.
Listen to the river sing sweet songs, to rock my soul."
One last comment (then I'll shut up - maybe) :-)
I've stated from the very beginning that there is absolutely no disdain towards MitD or anyone else for that matter. I just wanted to raise the issue to a higher level of awareness to please stop sending vines to these folks until we hear from them. That's all. Since he was on pretty much every list, the lost vines snowballed very quickly. Same with a couple other folks...
Although dstache's list is incredible to say the least, it still doesn't address non-Grateful Dead vines. There are some ABB, Stones, The Dead, etc vines missing also. The situation is actually worse than what dstache's list shows.
But when it is all said and done the bottom line is that I am wishing the best for our missing Vineyard friends.
"Escaping through the lily fields, I came across an empty space. It rainbow then exploded, left a bus stop in its place. The bus come by and I got on, thats when it all began. It was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of the bus to never ever land"
I advocate love, and understanding for all my Music loving
Sisters and Brothers, but I do believe it's time to stop worrying about hurting peoples feelings. When I seed a vine and someone is careless and it is killed it hurts my feelings. Needless to say most all of the Vineyards "Most Wanted List" have never seeded a vine. I honestly have been hesitant to seed. I have my 20 years so far that needs part 2 + corrected flac of part one. I will be seeding this soon, but it makes you hesitate when you see so many stalled, lost or dead vines. The 1979 part 1.5 Loving Rhino vine was a lot of work by more people then I. It was nurtured, grown and improved along the way and WAS A VERY COOL VINE and now it's dead because someone did not give a shit. The Stones Vine is the same way. I say call them out and absolutely DO NOT SEND THEM ANOTHER VINE UNTIL THEY MAKE IT RIGHT WITH THE COMMUNITY, PERIOD! If I sit on a vine, by all means call me out.
Life stuff happens, babies, illness, whatever. That stuff totally gets a pass with just a simple post, but just being plain selfish and inconsiderate is just bullshit in any type of situation.
"Say you'll come back when you can
Whenever your airplane happens to land
Maybe I'll be back here too
It all depends on what's with you."
whew!
Wow. Not sure where to start. dstache is an American Socrates. Well, that "most wanted" list is bound to get some attention by shining the bright glaring lights of scrutiny in their direction. They are now under attainder. Well, maybe not. This is a hobby. While I take it seriously and try to fulfill my social contract with each of you, I understand things do happen to folks. I can't sit here and condemn anyone because I myself may "disappear" some day due to family issues and unexpected contingencies. My thoughts and prayers go out to pkpotter, Hal, and MITD. I do have MITD's personal e-mail address. I e-mailed him about 2 weeks after he went AWOL with no response. Remember this folks--he ventured out into the snow & ice to the public library to post updates when his community was without power due to the ice storm. Something bad happened (family, job loss…etc). I think folks should be forgiven, as stated above, when they "confess their sins" to the community.
Anyway, dstache's metaphorical descriptions of murder, crimes, and suspects sure conjures up a good "who done it" murder mystery.
:0)
I think it's a good idea....
To compile a list like that....it helped me out.I think the idea of tracking a vine until it gets close to you prior to sending an address is waaaaaayy too complicated and labor-intensive...I can't see the purpose there.... just PM'g next in line for their address once u get the vine is the best way to go...it's a lot simpler that way...we go on to post that we've recvd it anyway, we can then just PM the person next in line for their address....no PM response in 3-4 days you're bumped to the end of the list....at the time of the PM (addy request) if the next person in line's situation has chgd they can let the sender know and the sender can revise the list accordingly....that way we aren't blindly mailing a vine to somebody weeks (usually months) after their initial signup....too much changes in everyones lives during that wait (computer probs, life, travel, relocation, show acquired elsewhere, etc).....the proposed method will ensure they're being sent to the right place, and most importantly, to a person who still wants it and is prepared to turn it around in a few days to their fellow music lover.....This idea seems virtually flawless from what I can tell...what do you guys think? The method we're using now would work seamlessly if we were circulating Classical Compositions amongst prestigious Harvard grads..not Dead shows between Deadheads...and tracking a vine for months until you're 3 away and then sending your address is not feasible for anyone with a full schedule (work, family, etc.)...it's just too much.
"In a bed, in a bed, by the waterside I will lay my head.
Listen to the river sing sweet songs, to rock my soul."
my final thoughts
I definitely am not sending bad vibes anyone's way. I hope that the worst offenders are just jerks, and have not suffered any real tragedy.
I second birdsong's belief that seeders put a lot of love and time into creating these vines. It is indeed offensive when someone kills a vine.
PMing the person who is after you when you receive a vine to confirm the person is still active and that you have the correct address will alleviate some of the problems. It isn't a panacea, but I think it is the best thing we can do.
We should all TRY to post when we receive a vine, when we send it out and to whom, and when we are having problems that delay our sending the vine.
I am in favor of smaller vines. I broke down the 10 DVDs of 73 into 5 parts, both to get the most music to the most people in the shortest possible time and in case a reseed somewhere is necessary. Much easier to reseed 2 DVDs than 10.
One final thought, a suggestion really. Perhaps we could accept volunteers to be official reseeders. These people would be allocated the first 3 positions on every vine. Maybe 10 people could be official reseeders. And if something happens to the vine, one of the official reseeders reseeds it. This would be a good way for viners who don't regularly seed vines to contribute. This would also avoid having to ask the original seeder, who already put in time and effort, to reseed. And perhaps this would solve the problem here of a few bad apples stealing a bunch of vines. The official reseeders would know who killed the vine they had to reseed and would be on the lookout for that person on other vines.
Whatever our problems are, they really aren't that bad. There are a ton of great vines that are available. New people shouldn't be deterred by what is going on here over the last few days. we're just trying to clean house a bit. Newcomers are always welcome.
PM
The only problem with requiring a PM is that some people don't come on the site every day. I believe that passing people if they dont respond in 3 or 4 days is way too restrictive. Also, the fact is that not everyone will be diligent in sending out PMs.
Since I dont think tracking my vines is very labor-intensive, I suppose either way is a valid method. In other words, if a person PMs his addy within a short period before he is due to receive it, there is no need to PM him. If not, send a PM, but I would wait a week before passing over, especially if the viner has an established track record.
Either way, I think we should discard sending addresses at the time we sign up. That method no longer works.
As far as re-seeding, I dont believe that we need official reseeders or to reserve spots. However, I totally agree that the original seeders should not be the ones to re-seed. I believe that there are enough good souls in the vineyard that valid requests for re-seeds will be fulfilled. I know that there are a number of stalled vines from Dstache's list that I will be happy to re-seed, once we get a new topic set up. ( I know: there goes POMO beating that same dead horse!)
"One watch by night, one watch by day
If you get confused, listen to the music play"
nice idea dstache....
"One final thought, a suggestion really. Perhaps we could accept volunteers to be official reseeders. These people would be allocated the first 3 positions on every vine. Maybe 10 people could be official reseeders. And if something happens to the vine, one of the official reseeders reseeds it. This would be a good way for viners who don't regularly seed vines to contribute. This would also avoid having to ask the original seeder, who already put in time and effort, to reseed. And perhaps this would solve the problem here of a few bad apples stealing a bunch of vines. The official reseeders would know who killed the vine they had to reseed and would be on the lookout for that person on other vines."
I think this is a great idea....it enlists a "Vine Police Force" of sorts, it'll help out....I'm starting to get concerned about MitD, I hope he's ok
"In a bed, in a bed, by the waterside I will lay my head.
Listen to the river sing sweet songs, to rock my soul."
on Official reseeders being the first three on the vine
this seems to really complicate things to me. In so many ways that I don't have the time to list them all. Hey, I really appreciate all the work everyone is doing for this but I am wondering if what is more of a "people problem" is being analyzed as a systems problem. Sure lets figure out what works best but keep it simple, please. If this gets too complicated I am sure that some of the steady viners may leave, it becomes too much on top of lives that are already very busy. No matter what we do to fix the system it still remains that there are unreliable people. I know that we now will be going through a weeding out of black hole viners and that should improve things around here quite a bit. Also folks have gotten excited and signed on but not taken the responsiblity of it. I see that as time passes that most of those inthe Vineyard will be the responsible viners.
I am also wondering if there are so many vines lately and they come so fast that it gets overwhelming for people. Too much signing up and we can't control when they come to us. I know I have gotten that way several times but have dug myself out in due time.
If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite.
William Blake
My final final post on the topic
The real problem we have here is of vigilance. Someone kills a vine and no one notices for quite some time because no one is watching. The idea of official reseeders (actually unofficial reseeders would be a better moniker), would ensure that someone would be watching. As an incentive, the unofficial reseeders would be given prefered positions on the sign up lists. I don't see why people who agreed to perform this duty shouldn't be given a preference over people who don't. I'm not sure that we even need to do anything differently (other than post often and PM), but it seems like this topic has generated a lot of discussion and perhaps something should be done.
I disagree re: waiting a week for people to respond to PMs. I think that vines move too slow as it is. I almost always get vines out within a day or two. In general, I think that one day for every DVD or WAV show that you receive is ample time. So, if you receive my 2 DVD SHN 73 Part 1 vine on Mon, you should rip and burn 1 DVD on Mon night and the other on Tue, and get the vine out on Wed. If you take an extra day or two because you were busy one night, or received multiple vines, no big deal. And if you have an emergency, by all means take all the time you need (please let us know). If you wait a week to hear back re: a PM, that is 4 or 5 MORE days it will take for the vine to move. Maybe that person shouldn't be bumped to the end of the line, maybe just dropped down one spot. But why should one person delay the vine for everyone else? I think that's the definition of selfishness, placing your time and happiness above that of the community.
On a better and perhaps more interesting note, I will be posting Parts 3, 4 and 5, to the SHN 73 vine soon. The discs are ready to go. I want to allow a little time to lapse so that if the same people sign up in the same order, there won't be a delay as a result of receiving all the parts at once. These parts will go up to 9/21/73. I am going to cover some of the same ground as the William & Mary and Eurovine vines so that newcomers and others who didn't sign up for them can get all the shows at once, or at least on one vine with multiple parts.
And finally, my last finally, I was wondering if people were interested in participating in a group project. It might help heal the wounds that surfaced over the past week. I was thinking we should do the same thing with 1977 as I am doing with 1973 (or at least 3/21-9/21). I want to gather and vine in SHN/FLAC format everything from 1977. In my possession, thanks to the great Rick mostly (that's thanks mostly to Rick, not meant to imply that Rick is ONLY mostly great, he is 100% great), I have 2/27, 3/18, 3/20, 4/22, 4/25, 4/26, 4/29, 5/1, 5/3, and 5/11, some with multiple versions. Off the top of my head, I would guess there are about 60 shows in 1977, so I have 1/6th of them already. Not to mention that we wouldn't be vining the officially released shows (5/19, 5/21, 5/22, 5/28, 9/3 (I think that is the date), 11/5 or 12/29) Of course, if we did this, we would go by SHN/FLAC signature number (or whatever that sbd.cotsman.11111 thing is called) but for now the dates are good enough. This would be a huge project, and would take a couple of months. And it would require the help of our bit torrenting friends, who already give so much. I've said it before and I will say it again, these guys, Rick, Bob and Cosmic Badger, give us so much. They don't EVEN sign up for vines anymore! They get joy out of giving to us. We appreciate their contributions immensely. I bet that a lot of people out there have a lossless show or two they have acquired in some fashion. With my 1/6, Iand your contributions, I bet we could get together 1/2 to 2/3 of the year without requiring the bit torrenters help. I would of course volunteer to receive the DVDs and put them together for the vines (again, in parts). And people who contributed would be the first to receive the vines. Are people interested?
Canyon Critter
has just reappeared in the chatroom. He's been in jail for a month. See positive vibes forum. Just goes to show.......
SO sorry all!
I just returned from a really bad experience.
Wish I could have seen all you on tour. I will be getting the vines out within a few days. I'm sorry that I blocked up the vines.
http://www.dead.net/forum/positive-vibes-folks-need-continued
Is about as honest as a California man can be.
Canyon Critter
_____________________________________________
Will you come with me? Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right!
response to pms within a quick period
I think a week is reasonable. There are folks here who do not have access to computers or email all the time. People leave on short vacation trips, work trips, camping etc. I know of at least 4 very responsible viners here that would probably have trouble always answering emails within 3 or 4 days at times but they are not viner black holes but are seeders.
If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite.
William Blake
The People vs. The System
The People are without doubt the issue...that being said, The System can be changed to minimize the effect of the "People Problems"....
This system is flawed and needs to be modified to something simpler and more reliable...
1. Post RECVD
2. PM next in line for their address/status
a) if no response in 4 days bump to the end of the list and PM the next in line.
3. Post SENT
I check my inbox and new messages waaaay more often than the vines I signed up for months ago...It'll rarely go 4 days, most will respond that same day or the next..I do...It's too long of a process to search and then find the right vine, track and follow it, spreadsheets, lists, blah, blah....keep it simple....that way **when** people's addresses change, their lives change, their computers, etc. we don't have all of the problems we're facing right now under the this System....
"In a bed, in a bed, by the waterside I will lay my head.
Listen to the river sing sweet songs, to rock my soul."
I'm in dstache
I'd love to help out on a project like that! Especially for '77.
"Escaping through the lily fields, I came across an empty space. It rainbow then exploded, left a bus stop in its place. The bus come by and I got on, thats when it all began. It was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of the bus to never ever land"
repost of the '77 project, edited
I was wondering if people were interested in a group project. I want to gather and vine in SHN/FLAC format everything from 1977. In my possession, thanks mostly to Rick, I have 2/27, 3/18, 3/20, 4/22, 4/25, 4/26, 4/29, 5/1, 5/3, and 5/11, some with multiple versions. Off the top of my head, I would guess there are about 60 shows in 1977, so I have 1/6th of them already. This would be a huge project, and would take a couple of months. I bet that a lot of people already have a lossless show or two. With my 1/6, and your contributions, I bet we could get together 1/2 to 2/3 of the year before having to ask for the bit torrenters help. I would of course volunteer to receive the DVDs and put them together for the vines (again, in parts). And people who contributed would be the first to receive the vines. Are people interested?
Thanks jackstrawfromcolorado for volunteering!
2 from '72
8/24/72 and 12/31/72. Two fine shows, on CD.
Berkeley Community Theatre 8/24/72, excellent recording, very sweet.
Disc 1:
Promised Land
Sugaree
Jack Straw
China/Rider
Me and My Uncle
Bird Song
Beat it on Down the Line
Tennessee Jed
Playin' in the Band
Casey Jones
Disc 2:
Tuning
Half-Step
Mexicali Blues
Brown Eyed Women
Truckin'
Dark Star
Morning Dew
Disc 3:
Sugar Magnolia
Ramble on Rose
Greatest Story Ever Told
Sing Me Back Home
One More Saturday Night
Uncle John's Band
12/31/72 Winterland, FM feed, good sound.
Disc 1
Around and Around
Deal
Mexicali Blues
Brown Eyed Women
Box of Ran
Jack Straw
Don't Ease Me In
Beat it on Down the Line
//Candyman
El Paso
Tennessee Jed
Disc 2
Playin' in the Band
Casey Jones (End 1st Set)
Promised Land
Half-Step
Big River
Sugaree
Disc 3
Truckin'
Jam
Drums
Bass solo
Jam/The Other One
Morning Dew
Disc 4
Sugar Magnolia
Sing Me Back Home
Johnny B. Goode
Uncle John's Band
One More Saturday Night
1st to sign up pm me with address. Enjoy!
restoring this topic to its designated purpose...
please continue the meta-discussion in the new meta topic here and we we start new topics as consensus emerges.
Vine Killers Hall of Shame - proposed process improvements
First of all I have three vines I have seeded that are currently in purgatory with the following three vine killers. This gives me no incentive to seed anymore vines. My recommendation is not to send any vines to them and to treat them as an automatic skip in all vine lists... Just put "Vine Killer" next to their name.
PappyPGH
MarkintheDark
j.straw
Secondly, We should make the posts easier to follow in terms of status, etc.. From now on lets use the following convention:
1. XXXXXXX in 6/11 out 6/12 to YYYYYYY
2. YYYYYYY in 6/14 out 6/18 to AAAAAAA
3. ZZZZZZZZ SKIP - Vine Killer (or no response)
4. AAAAAAA in 6/22 PM to BBBBBBB for addy
5. BBBBBBB
once address received AAAAAAA updates post when out in mail to BBBBBBB
this makes it very easy to look at newest post and know exactly what is going on. if there is a vine killer or a non-responder (I do think 1 week is acceptable although should be quicker for response in most cases but people do go on vacations) then just put that next to their name and they are skipped... move to the next person. It will be up to said non-responder to put their own name back on the end of the list.
Its up to us to enforce this so lets all try and go with this format and set of rules and see how it goes. I am trying to hunt down said vine killers but so far to no avail.
Marty
20 Years So Far Part 2: Wisconsin and Ohio + Flac DVD Part 1
20 Years So Far. Early Summer Tour Part 2: Wisconsin and Ohio+ The FLAC DVD of Part 1
Well here goes folks. I’ve been piecing this one together, and with the help of two great connoisseurs and sharing kind souls, this one is ready to roll.
The first kind soul, is a great friend of mine from Seattle named ….well we’ll call him MIKE. The other is my personal “Captain Sully” of the Dead.net vineyard community ltapilot. Great thanks to both for making this goal of mine to get quality recordings this entire run possible.
This swing is when I got on the bus, and I feel very blessed to have seen some of these shows. The band seemed fired up every night. Such great hot summer nights under pavilions and stars.
This was really the last summer tour which played a lot of these smallish outdoor venues. After 1985 we bid farewell to shows at Merriweather Post and the Blossom Music Center. We were told they would never be able to play S.P.A.C. again after the 2nd level was swaying about as if a 7.0 earthquake struck and the damn deadheads would not stop sitting on the edge of the balcony (Phil-“50,000 people are waiting on you man”). We were able to see S.P.A.C. again in 88’. We got another year out of Riverbend and a couple more out of Alpine Valley and the Greek.
Anyway, I will vine the entire run from June 14th at the Greek Theatre until the Pittsburgh Civic Arena on July 2nd. The recordings will be a pleasant mix of soundboards and phenomenal audience recordings done by regulars in the taper community in the 80’s, the Oade brothers. The vine will be split into 3 so I can offer audio cd’s to the flacless.
“20 Years So Far”…….What a ride!
I will provide a DVD with Flac/Shn + the CDR's with MP3
gd85-06-21.sbd.miller.25315.sbeok.shnf
06/21/85
Alpine Valley Music Theater - East Troy, WI
Set 1:
Cold Rain And Snow
Down In The Bottom
Ain't Superstitious
Stagger Lee
Mama Tried
Mexicali Blues
Bird Song
Looks Like Rain
Day Job
Set 2:
Man Smart-Woman Smarter
Goin' Down The Road Feelin' Bad
Estimated Prophet
Eyes Of The World
Drums
Truckin'
Black Peter
Around And Around
Sugar Magnolia
Encore:
Baby Blue
gd85-06-22.sbd.noemph.hillwig.18125.sbeok.shnf
06/22/85
Alpine Valley Music Theater - East Troy, WI
Set 1:
Hell In A Bucket
Sugaree
Walkin' Blues
Candyman
It's All Over Now
Althea
Cassidy
Brown-Eyed Women
One More Saturday Night
Set 2:
Keep On Growing
Mississippi Half-Step
Lost Sailor
Saint Of Circumstance
Drums
Dear Mr. Fantasy
I Need A Miracle
Stella Blue
Throwin' Stones
Not Fade Away
Encore:
Brokedown Palace
gd85-06-24.sbd.miller.25315.sbeok.shn
06/24/85
River Bend Music Center - Cincinnati, OH
Set 1:
Alabama Getaway
Greatest Story Ever Told
They Love Each Other
New Minglewood Blues
Tennessee Jed
My Brother Esau
Loser
Let It Grow
Set 2:
Iko Iko
Samson And Delilah
He's Gone
Smokestack Lightnin'
Cryptical Envelopment
Drums
Comes A Time
The Other One
Cryptical Envelopment
Wharf Rat
Around And Around
Good Lovin'
Encore:
U.S. Blues
SBD> Master Cassette> DAT> CDR> EAC> .flac (Gen unknown, still lossless and sweet)
06/25/85
Blossom Music Center - Cuyahoga Falls, OH
Set 1:
Day Tripper
West LA Fadeaway
C.C. Rider
Dire Wolf
Beat It On Down The Line
Row Jimmy
Me And My Uncle
Big River
Big Railroad Blues
Jack Straw
Might As Well
Set 2:
Gimme Some Lovin'
China Cat Sunflower
I Know You Rider
Playin' In The Band
Drums
The Wheel
Playin' In The Band
China Doll
Sugar Magnolia
Encore:
Touch Of Grey
New Vines.....
Ready to go.
"Say you'll come back when you can
Whenever your airplane happens to land
Maybe I'll be back here too
It all depends on what's with you."
1973 SHN/FLAC Part 3
Here is the third installment of our journey through 1973. Again, it is 2 DVDs and I ask that we not include WAV files. If someone wants to convert and start a WAV only vine, feel free. Part 3 contains:
5-20.sbd.schlissel.24495
5-20.sbd.weiner-warner.19564
5-26.sbd.cribbs.17076
6-09.sbd.hollister.172
6-10.sbd.hollister.174
6-22.sbd.cribbs.17270
I listened to the Schlissel source for 5/20 and graded it as a Very Good performance and an A-SBD. There are early sound problems but they clear up. Highlights include China Cat, TLEO (why they slowed it down after their hiatus I don't know), GSET, Here Comes Sunshine, and the entire Truckin' > Nobody's Jam > Jam > Drums > Other > Eyes > Stella sequence. I also listened to 6/9 and graded it as a Good performance, especially the 2d set, and an A SBD. Highlights include Loose Lucy, GSET, China Cat, Playing and Eyes.
After marye gives this vine its own thread, the first person that signs up should PM me their info. Enjoy!
Is there a topic for "2 from 72 Vine"
that I missed?
"One watch by night, one watch by day
If you get confused, listen to the music play"
Going out tommorow
With all the chaos that has happened, been away this week, I will get all the vines out tommorow. Thanks again all you kind folk.
Love,
Canyon Critter
_____________________________________________
Will you come with me? Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right!
1973 SHN/FLAC Part 4
Here is the 4th installment of the 1973 SHN/FLAC vine. Notes: (1) A couple of the June shows are partial shows; (2) Both 7/27 and 8/1 already circulate on the Summer of 73 vine, but it was easier for me just to include them here, so there is a little overlap. (3) Finally, outtakes from Wake of the Flood are included.
As with the other installments of this vine, please keep this in SHN/FLAC only. If WAVers want this vine, and someone wants to convert, feel free, but please start a new vine.
Here are the source file signatures:
6-24.sbd.cotsman.12828
6-26.sbd.cotsman.12076
6-29.sbd.cotsman.11617
6-30.sbd.jerugim.177
7-27.sbd.miller.27779
7-27.sbd.weiner.180
7-28.sbd.weiner.14196
8-01.sbd.cotsman.12222
8-xx.sbd-wotf.davef.2522
9-07.sbd.cotsman.19893
After Marye gives this part its own thread, the first person to sign up should PM me with their info. Enjoy!
1973 SHN/FLAC Part 5
Here is the final part of this 5 part vine (unless of course I acquire the rest of the year in SHN/FLAC, a distinct possibity). Four of the shows here were included on the 1973 Eurovine, so again there is some overlap. Even if you have that Eurovine, I would recommend signing up for this one so as to acquire 9/15 (a significant upgrade for me over my previous WAV version, first set upgraded from a B- to a B+ AUD, and second set from an A- to an A SBD) and the rare 9/17.
Please keep this vine in SHN/FLAC only. Blah blah blah
Here are the source files:
9-08.sbd.wolf.183
9-11.sbd.lanum.184
9-12.gdlive.susan
9-12.sbd.sly.14010
9-15.aud-sbd.cotsman.16174
9-17.sbd.cotsman.14473
9-20.aud-sbd.cotsman.11618
9-21.sbd.miller.17410
First person to sign up after Marye gives this its own thread, please PM me with your info.
Mickey & the Hartbeats 10/30/68 Vine
I thought I’d meet the flac and flacless people in the middle with this one. The Mickey and the Hartbeats show will be 3 audio discs and the bonus show 12/7/68 will be flac files on one CD-R.
Mickey & the Hartbeats
10/30/68
The Matrix, San Francisco, CA
shnID: 1205
Source: Digitized from First Generation Reels
Analog To Digital using a Revox A-77 Reel 2 Reel > Alesis Masterlink ML-9600
(24 bit sampled @ 96k) > 16 bit @ 44.1k downsample to CD>EAC>SHN
Disk 1:
01. Tuning
02. Dark Star Jam >
03. Death Letter Blues
04. "Fate Music" talk
05. The Other One Jam //
Disk 2:
01. Tuning
02. St. Stephen Jam //
03. . . . Jam (Other One esque) >
04. Turn On Your Lovelight Jam
05. Jam* >
06. Jam cont. >
07. The Eleven Jam >
08. Death Don't Have No Mercy > Jam
09. Prisoner Blues**
Disk 3:
01. Blues Jam**
02. Baby Please Come Back to Me** (?) >
03. Jam
04. Talking, tuning
05. Dark Star Jam
Comments:
Show billed as "Mickey and the Heartbeats".
Bobby and Pigpen were absent.
* Contains Clementine hints.
** With Elvin Bishop
Grateful Dead - December 7, 1968
Bellarmine College - Louisville, KY
Recording Info:
SBD -> Cassette Master -> Cassette -> Dat -> CD
Transfer Info:
CD -> Samplitude Professional v9.12 -> FLAC
(2 Discs Audio / 1 Disc FLAC)
All Transfers and Mastering By Charlie Miller
charliemiller87@earthlink.net
November 21, 2007
Notes:
-- Did some minor cleaning up and worked on the levels a bit
-- The Eleven is only the opening jam
Set 1:
d1t01 - //Dark Star ->
d1t02 - Saint Stephen ->
d1t03 - The Eleven
d1t04 - //Death Don't Have No Mercy
d1t05 - //That's It For The Other One ->
d1t06 - New Potato Caboose
Set 2:
d2t01 - //Rosemary
d2t02 - He Was A Friend Of Mine//
d2t03 - //It Hurts Me Too
d2t04 - Morning Dew ->
d2t05 - And We Bid You Good Night
"You know the one thing we need is a left handed monkey wrench....."
new vine coming up soon
I just received everything from the beginning of 1970 through 9/20. I will vine everything, in parts, except for the shows that appeared on the Repatriation and Ladies & Gentlemen vines. Gimme a couple days and I will begin posting the parts.
BCT vine
Hi, I have this vine. I have held this one up for way too long. I deeply apoligize. I have been trying to refocus on some things and this fell through the cracks. I will pm longrifle for his addy and send it off asap.I can never repay all the love that has been showered on me from this well. But know in my heart I am forever grateful.
All my love and the best of times to you all.
peace,pk
And... most importantly, thank you.
1970 SHN/FLAC Part 1
Here is part 1 of a 2 part adventure through 1970. I will not vine the shows that appeared on the Repatriation and Ladies & Gentlemen vines, except for alternate sources of 1/2 and 1/10, and only because I had a lot of room on disc 1, but I will vine the shows that previously appeared on smaller vines. Part 1 will be 4 discs of SHN/FLAC files. As with the 1973 vines, please keep this as SHN/FLAC only.
Part 1 contains the following files:
70-01-02.late.sbd.hanno.12624
70-01-02.partial-early.sbd.86
70-01-03.sbd.ret.19440
70-01-10.sbd.clugston.6663
70-01-10.sbd.hollister.17345
70-01-16.sbd.popi.7111
70-01-17.sbd.clugston.2220
70-01-17.sbd.cotsman.19283
70-01-23.sbd.fixed.connor.18153
70-01-23.sbd.goodbear.88
70-01-24.sbd.kaplan.7890
70-01-30.sbd.vernon.10546
70-02-01.psbd.cousinit.18121
70-02-01.sbd.kaplan.9629
70-02-02.psbd.cousinit.18122
70-02-02.sbd.cotsman.17809
70-02-02.sbd.vernon.10374
70-02-04.sbd.kaplan.14188
70-02-05.sbd.hanno.9184
70-02-06.sbd.bean.3913
70-02-07.sbd.hanno.10527
70-02-08.sbd-aud.cotsman.19152
70-02-08.sbd-aud.cousinit.18123
70-02-08.sbd-aud.cribbs.17679
70-02-23.sbd.vernon.10375
70-02-27.sbd.clugston.2191
70-02-28.sbd.cotsman.9377
70-03-01.sbd.hanno.4641
70-03-08.sbd.9195
Part 2 will appear in a week or so. First person to sign up after marye gives this its own thread please PM me. Enjoy!
vining
Hi Marye, new to vining, one question, after I type up all info on particular show, send info to you and you put on vine, what next? Do I send cd's to you, or do I send to first on list? I have most of the 90's shows in shn forms, all soundboards, and am interested in sharing these wonderful pieces of history with my fellow deadheads. I have read the vining info and I guess I'm not seeing it. Thanks for your help and information.