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continuing the free-form from where we left it...
A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth- Lenin
The 9-16-08 Wall Street Journal (not exactly a liberal source) chronicles President Geo. Bush's oversight of Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke and Bush's Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson's 85 billion dollar bailout of AIG. (Aren't these guys Bush appointees ?)
lamagonzo- this 'bailout' event took place months before Obama was even elected (in November). You are entitled to your own opinion of Obama, but you are not entitled to your own facts. There have been enough bailouts since then that time you can lay at Barrak's feet, but it is interesting you try to lay off (no pun intended) President Bush's wretched handling of the economy ie. tax cuts + massive government spending + war spending (which was kept 'off books') + massive bailout&executive bonus = as Obama's fault? Please!
But Vladamir Lenin did have it right, a lie repeated often enough does become the truth.
At least for some people. Especially for those who want to believe it to be true.
The Truth is realized in an instant, the act is practiced step by step.
Right on, as usual Oroboros
Can't tell you how often I got sick of hearing how Obama has "ruined" the economy, on my US voyage. This comment is meant to be neither for, nor against him, BUT sheesh-how illogical and unfactual can such a statement be? He has only been prez for 9 months now, and a disaster was handed over to him-just as you were pointing out, Oroboros.**********************************
Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge.
Mark Twain
Kirk, Spock & Bones...
,,, My problem children!
Great vid, enjoyed every bit!
Thx badger!
Beg to differ, Boros
I thought Obama's "change" would start with how HE handled this economic crisis -- we know very well what Dubya did. Even in the name of Perception Management (the PR art of creating reality for the consuming public) he could have decided NOT TO BAIL OUT THE BANKS 100%. By giving them say, 75 cents on the dollar we would have saved about 100 Billion.
Not saying Obama is not a good, decent man. But let us not be deluded. He is part of Democratic party and plays by the rules. Obama called Chris Dodd (D Conn., chairman of the senate banking committee) and had Dodd insert language in a bill IN FAVOR the freaking bonuses to be paid!!! Then Dodd lied like a rug for a week until Senator Olympia Snowe dimed him to CNN. When confronted he finally told the truth. This went down in late March of 09, on Obama's watch. Dodd said Treasury called and asked him to do it.
Think about the campaign. First, Kennedy delivers the Death Blow to Billary by passing the mantle of Camelot to Obama, albeit with the quid pro quo of promoting health care reform at any cost. It's a tight race well into the summer and McCain caves to the Goldwater faction of his party and appoints Palin as his running mate. This breathes new life into his campaign and then, in September, Lehman Brothers goes upside down and suddenly the economic sky is falling.... suddenly, 2 months before the election -- yeah, right! Perception Management, remember?
Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have Obama than anybody else except Howard Dean, who won the damn election for Obama as DNC chairperson, directing a fifty state strategy that treated McCain to barbed wire whipping party as he toured the country.
Think of election night at 11pm. America elects it's first black president and 300,000 people flood into Grant Park in Chicage to corronate our new King. One can almost imagine the ghosts of MLK, Medgar Evers and every other black martyr's ghost chanting "Free at last. Free at last!
The problem is that we haven't moved beyond race and Palin stirred up entire pantheon of ultra-right wingnuts -- everybody from the neo-nazis to the Birchers to the NRA. I am deeply troubled by the political climate in this country. I stand by my statement that the great unwashed and uneducated masses have been whipped into a frenzy, looking for a target of oppotunity as they suffer from this economic tragedy by the Repub/Demo death dance that Obama is part of.
The "Great Enabler"
I was watching 'Closing Bell' last week on cable (a business show) and there was a refreshingly honest statement saying that Obama has become the "Great Enabler" by rigging the economy so that we can continue to live beyond our means post-meltdown.
All of the negativity against Obama is not coming from right wing-nuts. The tea-baggers are some normal, decent, conservative people who are upset that the government is spending copious amounts of money it does not have. Though Obama has pledged not to raise taxes on those whose income is less that 250k, he will not be president forever. In 8 years, or sooner, a new president will come along and deliver the news that the middle class is going to have to pony up.
All of Obama's actions are based on the premise that consumer spending is going to continue to drive the economy as it has always done. Unfortunately that won't be the case. Approximately 3 to 3.5 Americans are out of work or underemployed. It remains to be seen whether these Americans will get the education they need to find decent paying jobs. More likely they will become permanently part of the service sector and underground economy.
The standard of living will fall and our kids will be paying more taxes for less service... But the Great Enabler will allow the baby boomers to retire in style, for a little while anyway.
No answer, Boros? I thought not....
Your comment really betrays you as one who has a very shallow understanding of economics and recent news.
The bailout was a ONE HELLUVA LOT MORE than $85 Billion (speaking only to one point).
As usual, the average American attention span is about ten minutes. God help us all.
you're right gonz
but i believe it was 85 bil. alone just for AIG...i may be mistaken.......i know for sure my attention span is at LEAST 13 minutes...it took me THAT long to spell "believe".
Hey Lamogonzo..............
Just like most "conservatives" , I am hearing no suggestions from you on how this mess should be handled. I hope you are not emplying that Obama created this recession. (I was laid off last August). I agree that the stimulus package is hard to swollow, but it does a hell of a lot more for our economy than Bushes blank check "refunds" he sent out. He may as well have burned the cash. Despite what those Tea Bag wacos would have you believe, these "bail outs" are not simply an open ended plan and the government is NOT trying to take over everything or put private companies out of business. In fact, some of the banks have already begun repaying the money. I heard that Bank of America is desperate to pay back Billions so they can be free of any government involvement. Cash for clunkers was a huge success and has stimulated the car industry.
OK, don't get me started or I'll have to explain to you why the public option for healthcare is the only viable way we will create competition and lower prices. Put that in your tea pot and smoke it!
Hey Grade A Deadhead
Boros thinks I'm a communist and was redbaiting me, quoting Lenin and you think I'm a conservative. Actually, I'm neither. But I do go ballistic from time to time about about this stuff and usually my point is: The Repubs/Demos are two sides of the same coin and we need to throw out the small change.
You ask me what I'm proposing? Nothing. I'm not running for anything. But I know you can't work from within this system to get meaningful change. You can see some of my posts in the Obama topic (if its still there). I also tend toward the ecological catastrophe looming on the immediate horizon.
So, if I had a position, I'd be talking about how to decrease our lifestyle and use less plastic and stay the fuck out of our cars as much as possible. We need to stop living beyond our means in this country. As my previous post about the 'The Great Enabler' stated, Obama is just postponing the inevitable pain that is coming. At some point the Chinese and others will stop buying Treasuries and the dollar will no longer be the world's reserve currency (giving us many ways to manipulate how the US pays back those debts) and America will have to face the music OR JUST START PRINTING MONEY WITH NOTHING TO BACK IT UP. That will create pure inflation, triple digit stuff, very quickly.
If we live on less maybe we will become responsible citizens of the world instead of the ruling class of an empire. We'll spend more time with our family, friends and neighbors and less time chasing a lifestyle that doesn't bring us any happiness. Making do with less doesn't mean you are less.
~ The work of his day measures more than the planting and growing ~
(Hope everybody is enjoying this year's crop under the harvest moon)
jefferson airplane meets star trek trip
That is too funny ! Thank you Cosmicbadger !!
Hey Lame O Gonzo :-)
I believe in moderation and living within your means as well. What set me off was your use of Conservative talking points like "Great " and defending the Faux News Tea Bag movement. The tea baggers are not simply physcally responsible citizens that are "outraged" by overspending. They are mindless lemings who are following the commands of the right wingers in order to derail any meaningful legislation proposed by the Obama Administration. This includes fighting against green energy, stricter emisions for vehicles, polution controls and the corporatization of our economy and our military for that matter. The health care "debate" is not even discussing the issues. It is centered on lies and distortions.
Anyway, this debate will not end any time soon.
Peace -
David
mindless lemings??
anyone who thinks ANY politician has the right answers and blindly votes for them because of supposed change fits that description to a "t". you can't trust any of the money grubbing backstabbing lying cheating rotten nogood twofaced thieving bloodsucking bullcrap artists.......i'm still trying to figure out how, why, and when words like "liberal" and "conservative" became four-lettered. one means to share, the other to save some for later...both ideas have merit, fer crine outloud. I will say though that the government does not need to get any bigger...and it needs to get it's damn hands out of my pockets, i liberally share with those that need it, when i can, but i reserve the right to conserve for later.......(grumble....mutter.....^!*&$#@ politicians.....)
mindless morons
These "idiots" who are "governing" us should all get together and eat a big bag of mushrooms, maybe they'd wake up. And they should "legalize it" (pot) quickly so people who want real change can get in there and try to clean up their mess. Corporate Wall St. capitalism has run its course and is the Devil's best friend. There's about 20 years left until the 2000th anniversary of Jesus death and everythings looking right on track for his return by then, I'm not too optimistic about us turning this world around but ya gotta keep trying. The next 20 years will be the most important in human history.
And I saw a new heavens, and a new earth
Love, hope, charity, faith, and more lovelovelovelovelovelovelovelovelovelovelovelovelovelovelove!
and peace
New Pictures of Jerry Garcia
I am happy to say that in the soon to be released Treating Yourself issue # 19 that we have 2 never before published pictures of Jerry Garcia.
1 is of Jerry Garcia in Mickey’s Barn studio. He worked on the soundtrack to the film "Zabriskie’s Point" soundtrack.
And the other 1 is of Steve Brown and Jerry Garcia at Golden Gate Bridge. The photo was taken by Jim Marshall during the Rolling Stone Magazine’s 10th Anniversary cover shoot.
All previously published issues of Treating Yourself is available for FREE as a PDF download and this issue will be available as a FREE download Jan.1/10
http://www.treatingyourself.com/dhtml/issues.php
Take Care and Peace
Marco Renda
Federal Exemptee
Publisher
Treating Yourself
The Alternative Medicine Journal
weedmaster@treatingyourself.com
C'mon people now...
... Smile on your brothers and sisters. Try to love one another right now.
Bought my first DSO ticket today fer Higher Ground, Burlington VT 12/3
Trucking down to Wallingford CT to see FURTHUR soon after --
Neato! Christmas presents!
~ I guess they can't revoke your soul for tryin' ~
of course
the person that wrote the note preceding this one is the one that is about to start the weekend and not the one that was reading the newspaper at lunch or listening to the radio news this morning
As Greg Brown says "I don't know that guy".
If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite.
William Blake
lamagonzo, I was not 'redbaiting' you, I was
quoting Lenin's truth of the "great lie' mentality. I did so since you were blaming Obama for the AIG bailout when that 'bailout' occurred under the Bush administration/direction. And I stated that you could hold Obama responsible for what happens under his watch, not what happened prior. That would be like me holding Bush responsible for oral infidelity in the Oval office. That infraction would be Clinton's and it is nonsensical to hold a prior administration responsible for a current administration's transgressions. That was my point.
I do agree that both parties have much in common where they deviate from their mission regarding a just and fair administration of government to all. And we also agree on using less and living on less. Amen, to you and not to brother Johnman on that point.
My 3 sons ridiculed me for using a 22 year old Marantz reciever. "Get something new, new is better, that receiver is old, aren't you embarrassed.....blah, blah,.." my boys called for me to get rid of something that worked fine (and had some sentimental value) but I told them that as long as this worked, why junk it to get something new?
We may have more in common that we do different. To identify my leanings, I see myself as a fiscal conservative, libertarian in several respects and socially liberal regarding most issues.
However, I find myself longing for a bygone era where persons that disagree can do so without abusing the faithful opposition. Ronald Reagan (R) used to have Tip O'Neil (D) over to the White House, to hammer out compromises to make this a better country/society and then each would praise each other. Similar compromises have occurred in prior administrations and unfortunately such practices have ground to a halt. And I don't see the current process as an improvement. The fact that several congressmen referred to political compromise as 'date rape' is an offensive statement and this sentiment has proven counterproductive (but pervasive) since they made those statements 15 years ago.
I am not here to name-call (nod to Hal) and I don't begrudge those that want to protest or call out that the 'emperor has no clothes', and all have the right to do so. Unfortunately in the current culture and media, what we often have is a bunch of entitled individuals (on both sides) who have no respect of anyone else’s opinion. Both sides have fostered disrespect for civil public debate and instead prefer a spectacle akin to professional wrestling. Where each side is a caricature, and instead of making their point, each assails and vilifies their opponent. Name-calling and questioning a person's patriotism has taken the place of debate. Bait and goad. Just watch the TV or listen to the radio. In my opinion, it is unfortunate that civil discourse is no longer valued nor desired. Or even civil.
I value and welcome debate. But I will continue to point out when some attack the persons on the other side of the aisle, by using the exact same tactics, and then attempt to present themselves as somehow above those tactics. I have seen too much of it in my lifetime and will not stand quiet. That is not a personal attack on you. It is an attack on the perversion that has supplanted debate in this country. It is also an attack on hypocrisy.
Each person has a right to their own opinion but each doesn't have a right to their own facts. I will continue to challenge when some here use facts that are inaccurate. On either side of the aisle. I challenged my liberal friends as they overlooked and dismissed the Clinton era lies, misdeeds, and missed opportunities as well as when my conservative friends were/are apologists for Bush's lack of purpose, deceptions, and wretched mismanagement of the economy (how many spending bills vetoed? Who started this government bail-out?).
I refused to call Clinton a liberal and/or Bush a conservative as their practice and policies were true to neither person's professed beliefs. But I could live more quietly with this if both willing to be honest in admitting that their documented behaviors differed massively from their stated purposes but each (and their supporters) cling to their desired label. And instead of acknowledging or discussing their decisions to divert wildly each President continued to contend how consistent they were to their principles. Lenin "A lie told often enough becomes the truth". Unfortunate, but accurate in each of their cases.
And the 'big lie' mentality works on us as well. If we aren't paying attention. Or decide to accept blindly what is told to us by blogs, TV, papers, magazines, government, etc..
Obama is the new guy. His administration is eleven months old. Obama is responsible for what happens on his watch, not the prior watch. Just like you are responsible for what you say. Not for what someone said before you. That was my point. That is what I was trying to convey.
If my communication was unclear, I am sorry. I am not always on point, just ask my wife. And she tells me I repeat myself and I babble. Say it ain't so.....
The Truth is realized in an instant, the act is practiced step by step.
Correction
I meant to say
"Amen, to you and to brother Johnman on that point."
Disregard that "not' in the original post.
My wife says that I need work in my editing as well. And of course she is right.
The Truth is realized in an instant, the act is practiced step by step.
hal
On October 2nd, 2009 Hal R said:
"my oh my
look at all the stereotyping around here, whatever happened to open minds?
C'mon people now"
*****
this be a fairly stereotypical HalR retort me thinks.
yuk yuk yuk.
( -:
*****
Dark Hal R
Hal R mashes
Burning peels into ashes
Tots of 'taters
Chives and sour creme but it misses
Butter lasting
Melts into crevices of illusion
Shall we try, you and I, potatoes from a can?
With the famine or windfall of harvest
Skin washers
Eating them will make you fatter
Arteries clogging
To cholosterol levels rising
Deadicated
Procedes into farts in my eye
Shall we try, you and I, potatoes from a can?
With the famine or windfall of harvest
(-;
peace.
light relief
hey thanks Joe!
was all getting a bit serious round here!
Hey Gadeadhead
Think the "lame O gonzo" is not particularly nice. Getting all heated up in debate is one thing, but insulting each other something else altogether. Opposing debate is the only way to really get at the truth, and it IS ok to say "I think what you say sucks, and I beg to differ" but is not ok to say "lame O".**********************************
Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge.
Mark Twain
CC Joe
I said C., C. C. Joe ManOh see, what you have done
I said C. , CC Joe Man
You’re always making fun
You drive us crazy where you’re here man
But we sure miss you when you’re gone ;-)
I said C., C. C. Joe Man
Never know where you have gone
Hustling pool halls all round Asia
From Tokyo to Patpong
Changing names and changing planes
And writing stupid songs
I said C., CC Joe Man
I hope those sweat pants ain’t too tight
So all the gases can disperse
Before you get on your next flight
I hope you find yourself one more sucker
And take his cash tonight
never seem to blend
thanks for the song, badger
I am honoured and humbled.
cheers, mate.
rare footage of cc joe released:
never seem to blend.
peace.
cccccccccccccccccc
never seem to blend.
words to live by.
peace.
Take the high road...
... not the low road of calling other people names. That usually means that you have nothing to add to the debate.
Buddy Plant had something interesting to say -- he usually comes to this site to get away from the real world, not to discuss substantive issues. I uderstand that. But one of the things that attracted me to the Grateful Dead was the deadheads. I could always easily find some people to have discussions with who share my general views, more or less.
The deadheads on the internet (a specific sunbset of deadheads) 14 years after the last show are a different breed though. I find it sad that they are now mirroring the attitudes of people in their peer group, generally. Why would I think otherwise?
Too sad to think of a pithy line from a tune.
Right on Starsleeper
Thanks, that was lovely!**********************************
Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge.
Mark Twain
Hey Tigerlilly
We left our kinder, gentler messages on the PM board. Unfortunately, we didn't post our tongue in cheak apologies to the public board. I guess I was trying to maintain my rugged, manly exterior. Sorry for any offense.
Here are a couple of private emails we were exchanging in the heat of our seemingly public mean spirited discussion.
October 2, 2009 - 7:10am
Hola -
I have added a toung in cheak response as well. Notice, I have utilized the tea bagger technique of name calling. Please don't take it personally. I love a good debate!
Peace -
David
> Hi David,
>
> Check out my response in Spinnin' and put that in your pipe to get smoked!
> Dude, I'm not a tea-bagger or a communist. You're showing how low the debate has sunk in our country!
>
> gonzo
Dear Lamagonzo
I wrote that to YOU, as a response to your PM to me. I don't think it's right to publish the content of Private Messages in a public forum, without permission. Thank you.
tea bagging?
tea-bagging??
tongue in cheek??!!
I'll write this message with just "a lick and a promise" and avoid any entendres...
****
some people say I am feckless, but I am, in fact, full of feck.
peace.
it's a derisive name
"tea baggers" attend so called "tea parties" to protest some of the governments taxation policies
I know!
Let's talk about irony and the use of "tongue in cheek" in written messages. About how the intent of the writer can so easily get lost in the typed text. :)**********************************
Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge.
Mark Twain
sound of banging on the wall
..excuse me can please you stop fighting in there? I'm trying to listen to the new Winterland Box set. It's really good and are distracting me
thanks :-)
CB
a cuppa
there are various meanings, and triple entendres are my forte'
WARNING: if you are offended easily, ignore this link!!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teabagger
tongue in cheek?
ba da dum. rim shot?
peace.
oh Really Joe?
You and double meanings? Had never noticed :P How you been? Where are you now?**********************************
Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge.
Mark Twain
of course, those definitions
may be just a wee bit biased, amusing, but biased, and the rest are just plain vulgar,or ridiculous.....or both..heeheeheee
Boros: Thanks for clarification...
... of your previous comment. In reading your posts I think that indeed we do have more in common that what sets us apart.
It has been interesting watching the comments following our posts. I don't know if the media has emboldened people to be more strident in voicing their opinions following the town halls on health care, but it sure appears that way. I can only hope that people move beyond their anger in the current debate. Still, anger is better than apathy.
Grrrrrrrrr!
That's a tougue in cheek Grrrrrrrrrr - by any definition (even vulgar or silly ones)
last time i tried
to speak with my tongue in my cheek i bit the livin' ....well....you know....heehee