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    What a setlist!... Made me jealous of those who saw this era live. Great sound… like ‘77 was yesterday. @derekb192 on 10/1/77, YouTube

    Wow! Just as when you think eyes is gonna go to drums out of the bliss comes dancing! One of my all time fave moments! Not just classic 77 but classic ever dead! - @emrysdavies1215 on 10/1/77, YouTube

    ...this show was off the hook from the very get go. The Casey Jones is the best I've heard... beginning a jam that goes through each member going off on an instrumental solo. The end has them jamming so hard you can no longer hear them singing through it. Now you know you're in trouble (The Good Kind) when a show starts like that... Weirtheir on 10/2/77, Dead.net

    Holy hell, the 10/2/77 Betty Board sounds incredible... I just wanted to pay homage to this unreleased gem, which features the lovely, tight playing you'd expect of a 77 show with some of the highest audio quality I've ever heard ... What a treat. u/monsteroftheweek13 on 10/2/77, Reddit

    I told my mother I was going into Portland with friends. I never told her where I went... @jamesmoore3694 on 10/1/77, YouTube

    We know where you've been and we're taking you back with the twice as nice DAVE'S PICKS VOLUME 45: PARAMOUNT THEATRE, PORTLAND, OR - 10/1/77 & 10/2/77. Back-to-back complete previously unreleased shows on 4CDs? You betcha! Why? Because we couldn't pick one over the other of these two nights that have been described as "fire," "mind-frying," and "crispy" (bit of a theme here) too many times to count. Witness it for yourself when you dig into the inventive medleys and pristine sound, not to mention the first "Dupree's Diamond Blues" since '69 and the first live "Casey Jones" since '74.

    Limited to 25,000 numbered copies, this release was recorded by Betty Cantor-Jackson (with a boost from Bob Menke, more about that in David's video) and has been mastered to HDCD specs by Jeffrey Norman at Mockingbird Mastering. Grab a copy while you can.

    *2 per order. Very limited quantity available.

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  • Dennis
    Joined:
    Crow Told of Mwandishi

    As Mr Ones says,,,, this is one of the reasons I come here. Talk about other music.

    Thanks Crow for pointing out the Herbie Hancock stuff. Turned out I have most of the stuff mentioned. Listened to "You'll Know When You Get There". What hit me most on first go round was the quality of the recording.

    Found I did have a chunk of Iron and Wine which included Sheppard's Dog. What hit me on first go round was how the recording did not compare with Herbie. Recording levels too high? Little muddy to my ears. Could be my copy of course.

    Cannonball's Experience in E,,,, I have a live copy off "Live at Pleyid 69",,,, it's only 14 minutes long.

    Deadheads, what a musical bunch!

  • That Mike
    Joined:
    Elegant Miles

    Mr Ones - I have both those Weather Report live collections, too, and they are incredible. If you want some great reading on WR, Pete Erskine wrote a great bio on the band from the drummer’s seat, especially in their heyday, called “ No Beethoven: Autobiography & Chronicle of Weather Report”, and an even better book came out about a year ago called “Elegant People”. Fascinating read, and a deep dive on their recorded works. A fantastic band I never tire of hearing.
    As for Miles, he made so many great recordings from the Fillmores, and Black Beauty smokes. A stripped down electric live band, Chick is very prominent on this recording. I think Miles is my top jazz pick, his whole career, but I’m endlessly fascinated by his electric bands and recordings.
    I still think how amazing Bill Graham was - genius, really - with some of his billing lineups, mixing different sounds or genres, but Miles Davis & the Dead on the same bill - Wow. Just wow.

  • Mr. Ones
    Joined:
    Never a Dull Moment

    You guys and gals just continue to floor me. I know there’s a lot of non-Dead discussion here but my God. It’s just so fantastic!!
    THATMIKE-I have about 20 Cannonball discs, including the one you so kindly recommended. I generally prefer live stuff-Cannon is SO generous & descriptive with his introductions and banter. I especially like the 66-71 period. Which ties into the one Cannonball album I have not found on cd. Experience in E. I have a 2-disc compilation that has both songs off side 2 of that album, but none with side one, the 20 minute version of Experience in E. Anyone have or seen this on cd?? It comes up because that song (a Zawinul composition of course) is the 3rd track disc 1 of Forecast: Tomorrow. This and 2 other Weather Report compilations are prizes of my WR collection. A 2-disc set called “Live and Rare” (I believe) and a 4-disc set of live stuff from ‘78-‘81, mind blowing stuff!!
    Mwandishi you say?? There was a 3-disc box called The Warner Brothers Years (again, I think that’s the title) that has Fat Albert Rotunda, Mwandishi & Crossings. Also great.
    So what did all that inspire me to play??
    Miles Davis Black Beauty!! Again, truly mind blowing stuff (Chick Corea setting the keys ablaze!!).
    One last thing I want to add, for those of you with the high end stereo/sound systems. My favorite album of the Century (so far) is just chock-a-block full of amazing/interesting/ head spinning things in the stereo spectrum that I would be shocked if most (all??) of you wouldn’t enjoy. It’s not jammy, instrumental, weirdness, but I play this more than once a year. I recently had a co-worker ask me an interesting question:”what one album would you tell EVERYONE you know that they need to hear??” I thought for a bit, and came up with Iron And Wine “The Shepherd’s Dog”, which I have just played another 5 times in the last 3 days. I’m sure it may not be for everyone, but it’s one I brought to a friend’s house 4-5 years ago to show off his mucho-expensive sound gear. Even your wives may love this. So, I stake my (non-existent) reputation on this one. Feedback (good or bad) is welcome.

    After Miles, I’m putting on Herbie’s Sextant album!! You all are the best!! (after music, of course) 😃

  • Crow Told Me
    Joined:
    Did Somebody Say 'Mwandishi'?

    No? Well somebody shoulda.

    Herbie Hancock is to me one of the great geniuses of American music. Everything he did is worth a listen, and a lot of it is as Good As It Gets. All the stuff he did with Miles, and all the albums he made for Blue Note are stone classics. But my absolute favorite period from him is the Mwandishi stuff: ie, the period when HH was calling himself Mwandishi and (perhaps not coincidentally) rumored to be consuming mass quantities of LSD). He kept the same band together for a few years (Bennie Maupin, Eddie Henderson, Julian Priester, Buster Williams, and Billy Hart), touring the world and blowing minds, before he finally ran out of money and had to go a more commercial (though still great) direction with Chameleon.

    Official albums include Crossings, Mwandishi, and Sextant, which are quite literally the bridge between the fusion-y free jazz of the late '60 and the straight up funk of Chameleon. There's a few live boots out there that are pretty good, too. (As well as Fat Albert Rotunda, a soul jazz record with mostly the same personnel that's not bad.) If you are the kind of Head who enjoys a good 30 minute Dark Star, you want to check the Mwandishi out sometime.

  • That Mike
    Joined:
    Dennis

    Forecast: You Will Enjoy It!

  • Dennis
    Joined:
    That Mike - Forecast - Money Spent

    Found a used copy on Amazon,,, 20 bucks!

    What the hell.

  • daverock
    Joined:
    ESP

    I associate Herbie Hancock mostly with the so called second great quintet of Miles Davis. The incredible rhythm section he was a part of with Ron Carter and Tony Williams." ESP" and "Miles Smiles" are the stand out ones for me. I also like the solo albums he made with Ron Carter and Tony Williams - "Maiden Voyage" and " Empyrean Isles". A few years since I have played those two, mind.
    "Blow Up" is great film - I never associated it with Herbie Hancock, though. More a picture Of London just as psychedelia was emerging. Maybe I should dust that one off n' all.

  • Vguy72
    Joined:
    What starts with a W and ends in a T....

    ....with two letters in-between.
    Just stating the obvious.

  • alvarhanso
    Joined:
    Last Five

    Animals 2018 remix on BluRay, listened to the 5.1 surround mix, then the 2018 stereo mix, then the 5.1 again, then changed systems and listened to the 5.1 again, and while reading other people's reactions, I found out about the 2016 5.1 mix of Meddle that was slipped secretly into first runs of the big $550 Early Years Box Set. When they broke it down to individual year boxes, the 1971 box had had the bonus Meddle removed, but some kind soul has pisted it onto the youtubes and a simple search of Pink Floyd Meddle 5.1 will find it, and can play the playlist and have the whole album. It's great, even if a lesser compressed sound quality. But that's beside the main point: this Animals remix is absolutely terrific! Firstly, it's like James Guthrie turned the snare drum on 40 years later, as the drums went from dull to bright and driving. He even added some gated reverb on the drums for specific parts in Sheep and Dogs, and, as much as I hate gated reverb on snare drum, this is incredibly well done. (And probably more like what Peter Gabriel had in mind with the tasteful use of gated reverb, not dominating an entire decade needlessly with that horrid sound on soooooo many songs and albums through the 80s.) The bass sounds incredible, particularly the Pigs part by Gilmour. Guthrie has it sit in the mix in the surround and stereo mixes as a prominent, but not overpowering thing, with full sliding notes that Phil would love hearing, and, like the 5.1 mix of Have a Cigar, some phaser is now evident on the bass, which is more muscular and funkier. The guitar work on Dogs and Pigs is sublime, and sounds far better than it ever has, and I can't understand how David Gilmour would let a petty dispute over liner notes delay the release by four years, delaying by four years people hearing some of his most magnificent guitar work in its full glory. (One also wonders why that 5.1 mix of Meddle was pulled and not released. It was intentionally done after the mix was made.) I made this impulse purchase last night, and it was delivered at 12:30, just 20 bucks. The SACD seems to range for 40-60. Either way, glad I finally gave in and snagged this one, it is astoundingly good.

    Edited to add: glad to hear people breaking out Blow Up. I used to play Bring Down the Birds as a warm up exercise before gigs along with Bob Marley's War and In the Hall of the Mountain King. So groovy, one can see why Dee-Lite and millions of people dug it when they got Bootsy to play it. The movie comes on TCM occasionally. Oh, and I once saw Herbie Hancock opening for Dave Matthews Band. I heard Chameleon start, and I asked one of the 25 people in the crowd who was playing, they said, "Somebody called Bernie Hancock or something." "You mean Herbie Hancock?!" Even at 18, I was sad for the lack of crowd for Herbie. By the end of his set, he had pulled people in from the parking lot in Charlotte and maybe a few thousand were grooving to the legend that began as a pianist for Miles Davis, then became the pioneer of funk and synthesizers. 25 years ago, I was happy I got to see a legend opening for Dave Matthews. Most of that crowd had no clue what they missed.

  • proudfoot
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    Unusual occurrences in the desert

    I am looking forward to them

    :)))

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What a setlist!... Made me jealous of those who saw this era live. Great sound… like ‘77 was yesterday. @derekb192 on 10/1/77, YouTube

Wow! Just as when you think eyes is gonna go to drums out of the bliss comes dancing! One of my all time fave moments! Not just classic 77 but classic ever dead! - @emrysdavies1215 on 10/1/77, YouTube

...this show was off the hook from the very get go. The Casey Jones is the best I've heard... beginning a jam that goes through each member going off on an instrumental solo. The end has them jamming so hard you can no longer hear them singing through it. Now you know you're in trouble (The Good Kind) when a show starts like that... Weirtheir on 10/2/77, Dead.net

Holy hell, the 10/2/77 Betty Board sounds incredible... I just wanted to pay homage to this unreleased gem, which features the lovely, tight playing you'd expect of a 77 show with some of the highest audio quality I've ever heard ... What a treat. u/monsteroftheweek13 on 10/2/77, Reddit

I told my mother I was going into Portland with friends. I never told her where I went... @jamesmoore3694 on 10/1/77, YouTube

We know where you've been and we're taking you back with the twice as nice DAVE'S PICKS VOLUME 45: PARAMOUNT THEATRE, PORTLAND, OR - 10/1/77 & 10/2/77. Back-to-back complete previously unreleased shows on 4CDs? You betcha! Why? Because we couldn't pick one over the other of these two nights that have been described as "fire," "mind-frying," and "crispy" (bit of a theme here) too many times to count. Witness it for yourself when you dig into the inventive medleys and pristine sound, not to mention the first "Dupree's Diamond Blues" since '69 and the first live "Casey Jones" since '74.

Limited to 25,000 numbered copies, this release was recorded by Betty Cantor-Jackson (with a boost from Bob Menke, more about that in David's video) and has been mastered to HDCD specs by Jeffrey Norman at Mockingbird Mastering. Grab a copy while you can.

*2 per order. Very limited quantity available.

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In reply to by 1stshow70878

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....site is up. Lottery currently underway.
psst.....Buffalo is the better show.

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Just checked, you can order it again. Don't know how they manage inventory...

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I wonder why they never did a 50th anniversary release for Live Dead, one of their greatest albums.

Can't believe it's 50 years.
Privileged enough to see and hear him twice during Europe 72., my first Dead shows.
First was Wembley 8th April. I was amazed how thin an frail he looked, but the voice was still there and we got Mr Charlie, Next Time, Good Lovin', Hurts Me Too and Caution.
Next up was Bickershaw Festival on 7th May. This is widely regarded as the set they should have played at Woodstock. It was wet, it was cold, it was magnificent.
Pigpen sang Mr Charlie, Chinatown Shuffle, Next Time, Big Boss Man, and a quite wonderful Lovelight.
On a very personal note I turned 18 on May 8th. Despite coming on at 19.30 on the 7th they were still playing at midnight and they were playing Lovelight. Talk about a dream come true!

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In reply to by Vguy72

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Good luck in your quest for Cornell tickets.

I was having a bad day until I looked at the prices for tickets and hotel packages. I got a pretty good chuckle out of it.

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Gouge
(Verb)
/gouj/
To overcharge; swindle.

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9 years 1 month

In reply to by Vguy72

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Your answer is in the email:

“CORNELL 5LP set and a handful of MAY 1977: GET SHOWN THE LIGHT (ALL MUSIC EDITION) 11CD sets that we recently unearthed at the warehouse.”

They don’t have very good warehouse management skills.
Similar happened several years ago but I don’t remember what release it was.

Maybe DaP45 is in fact sold out but they don’t realize it.

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Got our tickets today for Dark Side of the Mule at Red Rocks. For those not in the know (assuming one cares), Google it. Jason Bonham's Led Zeppelin Experience opening. I saw Warren the last time he brought the Dark Side to the Rocks and it was fucking fantastic, inasmuch as I can remember. We had a pow-wow in the parking lot up top. My friend has a handicapped parking pass, and they waived our car into a coned off area as we broke out the camping chairs and coolers. Bruce brought THC infused vodka jello shots... I distinctly remember sitting in the sun with my car trunk open, blasting Aerosmith's "Toys in the Attic" followed by Zeppelin's best of "Mothership."

It felt like high school... we were fucked up and riotous. One thing about the crowds at Red Rocks, I swear to God it is always the friendliest bunch of people you'll ever meet. Like, everyone is kind.

I'm sick tired of getting fucked over by TicketBastard for these shows. Today, I hit back. I don't mind sharing this. I was at work and I fired up three different computers and opened both Chrome and Edge on them all, so I had six browsers open and got them all into the waiting room. The room where I usually go to die... I missed Tom Petty's last tour due to this evil! Anyway, there was a limit of 4 tickets per purchase and we have five going including two flying in from California so I could not fuck this up. I got in for four in Row 27 and then again for one more in Row 25.

I feel truly blessed. The 3rd best concert ticket buying experience of my life, after drawing spot #2 in line outside Macy's for Rolling Stones tickets in the mid 90s, and showing up with beers and joints in front of a Colorado Springs music store at 4am prior to SRV's final tour with Joe Cocker. We were first.

Last 5:

ELO - The Essential Electric Light Orchestra
Elvis Presley - Elvis: 30 #1 Hits
Mark Lanegan - The Winding Sheet
Apocalypse Now - Soundtrack, 1979
AC/DC - Powerage

\m/

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If they "found" new inventory now, why are they a pre order with a May shipping date? Don't you think TPTB would want to get rid of the remaining stock, immediately? it just doesn't add up to me.

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In reply to by wissinomingdeadhead

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Maybe they are trying to cover up their mistake by pretending it's something new, which you have to pre-order so you don't miss out. It's the Holy Grail of Dead shows now, according to the blurb.

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I read that as them saying the Get Shown the Light was the "found inventory" not the vinyl. But it doesn't really explain why they thought to press more vinyl of Cornell. Wasn't that a limited numbered one when last put out?
Cheers

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It would be great if they came up with a bunch of copies of the Fillmore West Box set that were stashed away in the whearhouse, now that would be something..

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Billythekid, I wish too some more copies were available. I missed out on that one. Resale prices are just too rich for my blood.

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Buy the records of of the FW box set, if you have a turn table, (I dont), but I would go out and buy one just to get that music. You can still get all the records brand new at reasonable prices. I Ibought the box when it first came out, 2 copies, one for me and one for.my brother. I also have bought the records even without a turntable.

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OK, let's talk conspiracies. We know that: a) the current DaP isn't selling very well, and b) Rhino suddenly discovers more copies of the very popular May 77 box and puts 'em on sale, AND c) out of the clear blue sky they also suddenly decide to reissue the very popular Cornell vinyl.

Coincidence, you say? Ha. Ha ha. Ha ha ha ha. I could tell you more, but then I'd have to kill you.

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This sudden deluge of 77 items has prompted me to go and watch some episodes of 77 Sunset Strip. Maybe it's great, maybe not - when the series originally aired I was too young to decide objectively if it was awesome or crap.

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In reply to by simonrob

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41 million albums vs 33 million CD’s.

Although streaming makes up 84% of revenue.

As for me, I’m going to keep buying GD CD’s from Rhino and maybe a little vinyl here and there.
No need for streaming.

....promised to make tickets affordable to fans. Albeit, they will be non-transferable according to what I read.
Last Five....
The Cure - Wish
Trey & Page - January
Day Of The Dead Compilation - discs 1 & 2 (I count that as one).
Jethro Tull - Heavy Horses
Widespread Panic - Ball

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In reply to by proudfoot

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Producer for Husker Du and others

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Joy Division unknown pleasures
JD closer
Megadeth rust in peace
Clash london calling
Motorhead inferno
Funkytown
Double Dutch Bus
Archies sugar sugar
Big Country big country
Men Without Hats safety dance
Come on, Eileen

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Pink Floyd-The Endless River
David Gilmour-About Face
Pink Floyd-The Final Cut
McCoy Tyner-Sahara
GD-Dave’s Picks Vol. 11

That’s all I got…

…Music is the Best!!

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Interesting article in Business Insider about MG and her new memoir. Great pix, too.
Google MG and memoir.

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In reply to by Dennis

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Cream
My virgin listens to Fresh Cream and Wheels of Fire

Also
Last evening on PBS nitty gritty dirt band in nashville
Covering a bunch of bob dylan and other stuff
A very pleasant surprise

Yes I searched and searched for MG's book, I don't think it has been published yet. That was kind of suggested in the article when she was reading from her pages from a box. I also came across the book "Mountain Girl" which has nothing to do with MG.

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In reply to by proudfoot

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Mention of "Wheels Of Fire" always puts me in mind of it's stunning cover by Martin Sharp. It's worth getting both this and "Disraeli Gears" on vinyl so you get the full effect of the visuals.

So all the parties are generally held the weekend before March 17. I can always go for some traditional Irish music, especially if it’s sung by Iarla ó lionáird. So after a nice first set of Gaelic songs, the band returns and opens with a Bertha into a Shakedown to the bewilderment of the revelers. Nice.

Thank you for the heads up on the 3/1/69 vinyl. I grabbed a copy at a very reasonable price and hope to enjoy it whenever I get around to purchasing a turntable.

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Feedback. I was also listening to the first set on Dave's 35. Pretty hot.

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In reply to by carlo13

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That's a great late period album by The Electric Prunes. The 60's with attitude. Another unexpectedly great late period release by an original psych band is "Wake Up Where You Are" by The Strawberry Alarm Clock, which again came out this century some time.

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Seems Floyd releasing a live Dark Side (Wembley Pool).

Order cd and lp.

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In reply to by Dennis

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Should be a good one for those having difficulty sleeping. Only jesting - "Wish You Were Here" would be better for that.

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What a blast! Along with Nappy, Nite Cat, and my brother Cousins, we all had a knockout of a weekend, entertainment provided by the Good ole Grateful Dead. Of course they did Friend of The Devil. Wow, 41 years ago, where does the time go.

It's a shame they didn't release the whole show, instead of just the run through "Dark Side of the Moon". They opened with "Shine On.." then played "Raving and Drooling" ( Sheep on "Animals") and "You Gotta Be Crazy" ( Dogs on "Animals") Then "Dark Side of The Moon", with "Echoes" for the encore.
"Echoes" from this show ( I think) was included in the Early Years box - the final section called "Continu/ation 1967-1972". But it will cost you - I don't think you can buy that without getting the whole box. Why it was included there, out of it's timespan, is a bit of a mystery.

Makes no sense why they release half the show. Was surprised about that Echoes, I had forgotten there was more cds in the actual box than the individual sets, which is what I went for and finally completed 18 months ago. I guess since I had first been gifted an mp3 copy, I never noticed the missing music the way the damn things are laid out. It has to be one of the most confusingly tracked and labeled box sets ever. The first run of boxes included a hidden 5.1 Meddle mix that was scrapped last minute as they hadn't let Roger Waters hear the mix yet. Then they screwed up and put a 2016 cd remix of Live at Pompeii in instead of the planned 2016 remix of Obscured by Clouds. Luckily, the 1972 individual box contains both, however, sadly, they cottoned on to the hidden Meddle, and subsequent boxes were bereft of this still unreleased, officially, epic mix of some incredible music. There is a 1971 quadrophonic mix of Echoes on the DVD/BluRay. Can never have enough Echoes. Never. Or Raving and Drooling and You Gotta Be Crazy and Shine On...

I am not looking forward to Roger Waters's reconceptualization of Dark Side, complete with spoken word over On the Run and Great Gig and Any Colour You Like apparently. He also plays an instrument on just one track on it, so one has to wonder why in the hell he's re-recorded it, if he didn't really re-record it? I get petty band relationships, but the feud between Waters and Gilmour is childish, and maybe that's the problem, they've known each other since they were kids before any bands to even join.

Though, I am looking very much forward to Peter Gabriel (and Tony Levin) in seven short months' time in Boston. That will be a hoot, I am sure. I think it was Vguy that alerted me to the tour announcement a week ago, thanks for that. My wife will thank you in seven months, for now she's skeptical.

Edited to add: I forgot that I did a search on The Early Years Box because of my having forgotten that last little bit Continu/ation, and on Amazon right now, there are 12 copies available new at $363. Don't know why, or for how long, but thought I'd pass that along. For frame of reference, it was $550 on release.

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In reply to by alvarhanso

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I assume that it’s the same recording that was on CD2 of the recently released DSOTM reissue.

I passed on the Early Years Box but got the individual mini Boxes for half the price (at that time). I figured that I could pass on the bonus Box since I didn’t need the two movies and already had the Echoes. Just went to Wikipedia to see what else was in that bonus Box and the article mentioned that some of the Blu-ray’s from the whole Box were defective and there was a recall from 2019-2020. Hope mine aren’t bad now, guess I’ll have to watch them all to check. Put that on the to do list.

David and Roger fighting.
DLR and Eddie VH fighting.
Inflated egos ruining good bands.

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In reply to by alvarhanso

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Alvarhanaso - you probably know - I had forgotten yesterday - but the first three tracks from the Wembley 1974 show, "Shine On.." "Raving and "Drooling" and "You Gotta Be Crazy" were included in the second disc of the "Wish You Were Here" set that came out a few years ago. Which does make this new "Dark Side" live portion that's coming out a bit more desirable, as it's possible for me to piece together the whole show.

My copy of "Early Years" included a cd of "Live at Pompeii" but not "Obscured By Clouds". I contacted "the authorities", and they sent me a cd of " Obscured Through Clouds." I didn't get the new mix of "Meddle" - though it occurs to me that if it's hidden, I may have it somewhere and not know about it.
The other anomaly with this box is that the film "La Vallee" ( Obscured By Clouds) is in French with no sub titles.

CNKD -the best thing about the Contin/uation set for me are the 10 BBC recordings from September and December 1967, with Syd Barrett still at the helm. The September set includes "Set The Controls For The Heart of The Sun" - which is great to have even if it is only about 3 minutes long. It's not that well recorded - it sounds as though someone taped it off a small mono radio by holding a microphone in front of the speaker. But what the heck.
I also like the alternative promo film for "Arnold Layne". But if you aren't that fussed about the Syd era, it's probably not worth getting. It's a long way, for better or worse, from the Dave Gilmour lineup of the band.

That re-recorded version of DSOTM you, mentioned , Alvarhanso, by Roger Waters sounds a bit of a travesty to me. Maybe he thinks of it as more of a solo album than one by Pink Floyd .

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In reply to by daverock

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In my Pink Floyd folder, shows. I have two shows from "Wembley". 11/15/74 and 11/16/74. One is labeled Wembley Stadium and the other is "Wembley Empire Pool".

Are these the same place or two different venues?

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