Grateful Dead

As soon as I'm finished with this 9/27/72 Dark Star, which is waaaay good (check out the Phil interlude from around 20:00 =>23:00 - very strummy and chill), I'm headed to 12/2/73. If memory serves, that Wharf Rat did well on Heady Version. But it's the Rio Grandio you're talking about that I don't recall well. A journey it will be. This Dark Star is insanely good. I've been parked in my driveway for 10 minutes finishing it out.

We would be remiss if we didn't take the plunge down the 11/17/73 rabbit hole. Me and My Uncle opener than Here Comes Sunshine as the second song? It usually takes at least an hour in '73 to get into a jelly enough mood for a loose jam like HCS. Ridiculously good.

I made it to UJB while getting the Turkey stuff and side dishes ready for tomorrow's feast before I killed it. I plan on taking in some of Washington States finest (NYPD, where do they come up with these names??) and picking things up in a few in the hot tub for the finish.

Man.. this is surely one of my favorite 1973 shows. I rarely listen to it simply because I want it to always be special.

Dave's 5 is incredible! I forgot about it recently, and, as penance, I've listened to it non-stop. My only qualm is that it doesn't have a "Candyman." That's my V-Guy-style "Cumberland," though it moves at quite a different pace.

Peace, Turkeys

https://youtu.be/-DgPQNuuRY4

Check out John Candy's shirt in the flashback.

Sorry, for disturbing, but getting a little nervous (nearly as always):
Has anybody got his pick 32 in Germany meanwhile?

....is still the best Dave's.

My copy arrived today with #18062 at the Isle Of Fehmarn.
Shipped via Switzerland, no additonal taxes.
Package and discs are looking good.
Last five:
Neil Young - Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere vinyl
GD- Ready Or Not Vinyl
Neil Young - Detroit 2018 CDR
CATS - Meets Joe Russo Vinyl
GD - Roosevelt Stadium New Jersey 080673 CDR

You can bearly see it.

But a pretty cool t shirt.. I have seen that movie before, never noticed it.

Happy Thanksgiving all..

I get it, you can "bearly" see it. Bear puns. We've devolved to bear puns. Absolutely that's where the Trainwrecked name came from!

What happened to the bear who applied for a job at the movie theater? He was told he was not koala-fied.

Had to bust out Steely Dan Katy Lied this morning. It has been a while. My second favorite band. I don't listen to them that much anymore. Way too much GOGD to go to. But, man what a studio band Steely Dan was. Hard to believe they didn't tour from 73-1996. I had a chance to see them 3 times. 1996 in Alpine, finally got Pavallion seats. Two more times in Minneapolis after that. Fagen still to me is a musical genius. I wish they toured more, but that was not their deal until much later in life.

Back to the boys for the incredible Rochester show from November 77 (Dick's 34). What a show this is. The Eyes of the World is so hot. Love the other one and Black Peter. Thank you to the kind soul that hooked me up with this one!

And now I have the 12/31/76 show going from the Cow Palace. Love this show!
Peace and happy Black Friday.
Take advantage of the 20% on this site if you are missing anything. Just don't expect it anytime soon.

Funny, I busted out Pretzel Logic this evening, went back and forth between that, Katy Lied and Royal Scam. Good stuff.

Off topic, I made a discovery today that I found a bit annoying. I discovered that amazon is selling some new releases as CD-R versions manufactured (burned) by amazon and with all regular packaging included in a standard jewel case, from the same audio source as the real CDs according to amazon. Something about this just bothers me and I wondered if anyone on here has run into this, was aware of this, or can explain if I am just being unreasonable to expect that if I purchase a new release I will get a real CD, not a burned copy on CD-R. I suspect that the CD-R is ultimately an inferior product which may not last as long as a regular CD pressed in the regular manufacturing process despite amazon's assurance that it is an equivalent item, but perhaps someone here will reassure me that I'm wrong. Curious what any of the folks on these threads think about this issue, whether it would bother anyone else or if I am just uptight. The CDs that I ended up getting this way are Sound and Fury by Sturgill Simpson and the Kings Mouth by Flaming Lips. Noticed this when I saw a note on the Flaming Lips Soft Bulletin: Live at Red Rocks product page indicating that it would be manufactured on demand when sold by amazon and then discovered that meant it would be a CD-R version, then looked to see if it applied to anything else that I purchased from them recently.

pause

i really truly wish i had more time to listen

Slewfoot 6 27 69

They get away with a lot of iffy stuff like the CD-R shit. Its Not right
And maybe not legal.

I tried to look into this and was unsuccessful. What I saw advertised was the original CD, I did not see copy's or CDRs, or anything similar in the descriptions.

I don't think this is legit. Just to confirm, was this from Amazon or was it from a secondary seller or whatever the correct word is for this at Amazon?

To Carlo's point, this doesn't seem legal unless they have licensing and pay royalties (which is doubtful).

I bet you could send it back at no cost and get a refund.

I purchased the items from amazon with amazon as the seller, not a 3d party seller. They are upfront about it, but it is easy to miss and requires a couple steps to get the information.

If you look at the product description at the top of the page next to the product picture for those items, e.g. Kings Mouth, there is a small line that states "Note: this product is manufactured on demand when sold by amazon.com. [Learn more]" When you click the "Learn more" link it opens a small window you get the information that it will be manufactured on demand using CD-R. The information indicates that amazon has a license to sell the product this way, that all original packaging materials will be printed and provided by amazon, and asserts that the discs are just like what you are used to and the source files the same as for regular CDs of the release. The note only shows up when the item is sold by amazon, and only for some items, in my case, the Sturgill Simpson Sound and Fury and the Flaming Lips Kings Mouth releases. The Flaming Lips Soft Bulletin Live at Red Rocks Release also has the manufactured on demand note when sold by amazon (when I look at this moment, the listing is for sale by a 3d party seller and the note does not appear, but earlier today when amazon was the seller the note was there - I'm sure it will appear again when amazon is the seller again). On the order details for these items it lists the seller as Amazon Digital Services, Inc., whereas the other CDs I have purchased from amazon indicate the seller as Amazon.com Services, Inc. There were also some threads on Steve Hoffman with references to this issue going back a few years.

I saw some terrible things when I was a drugs worker. I was once called out to visit someone who had been injecting curry powder. When I got there, it was too late...he was already in a korma.

Agreed. As many others have recently stated and I have posted before, number five sits atop the mountain. Not even close.

Effortless magic that smokes right from the start.

So the Sabres suck again. Their return to former glory lasted less than a month. I guess my lone sleeper team is the Oilers.

When i saw Oilers, AJS, my mind went to Houston Oilers, not Edmonton.

If they are licensed then it would seem the artist get some sort of cut. Perhaps it's a way for artists to get around labels and bring CDs to market at either less cost or by giving up less of a share to corporations.

Then the issue becomes one of the quality. If this is the direction music is heading, it really makes digital more viable and the physical product that much less desirable??

In any case, very interesting.. thanks for sharing. It gives us something to be on the lookout for.

Edit: I finally found the 'hidden in plain sight' language on the Flaming Lips CD. I had to look several times. Sneaky. I guess it's legit. Weird though. I need to give this some thought. Do they look the same as CDs (i.e. have artwork or professional images and detail on them or are they like the ones I make.. with the title hand-written by a black or blue sharpie?

"Note: This product is manufactured on demand when ordered from Amazon.com. [Learn more]"

Giving this more thought.. I agree with Cone Kid's comment (above this), this is a lesser quality product and should be significantly discounted, not $12 a CD. I guess the advantage, assuming they are being honest, is they are more eco-friendly?? but are the really? I gut tells me we should demand higher quality. If they had professional equipment instead of an industrial version of my CD burner.. wouldn't that be equally eco-friendly? Methinks we are getting an inferior product and Amazon wins the consumer loses.

Not really any different than selling a digital download.

They just need to make it very clear that it is a CD-R, because CD-R’s are not the same as CD’s. Anybody who claims that they are the same is lying.

CD-R’s store data with organic dye molecules which will slowly break down over time, but it depends on storage conditions. I have 20-year old CD-R’s that still play.

Factory made CD’s store data on a thin film of metal. The data is pressed into the metal film with a negative, very similar to how vinyl is pressed. This allows for a rapid stamping process and mass production.
But, as demonstrated by Rhino with every GD release, if you half-ass the process and don’t use quality control there will always be a batch of defective discs sent out to customers.

I would not buy an on-demand CD-R, only factory pressed CD’s.
But, if there was something that I wanted and it was only available as an on-demand CD-R or a digital download, I would do the download and burn my own CD-R.

Also note:
DVD+/-R uses organic dye.

DVD M-Disc uses a ceramic and/or glass layer that is supposed to last for 1000 years when stored properly.
United States Patent US008389095 B2
Date of Patent: Mar. 5, 2013
OPTICAL DATA STORAGE MEDIA CONTAINING SUBSTANTIALLY INERT LOW MELTING TEMPERATURE DATA LAYER

BD-R HTL (high-to-low reflectivity, the burned area is darker) is also a type of ceramic and/or glass and averages the equivalent of 500 years in simulated testing.

BD-R LTH (low-to-high, burned area is brighter) is organic dye similar to CD-R and DVD+/-R.

For someone who doesn’t want to do digital downloads or doesn’t have a burner, then on-demand CD-R might be the way to go.
Maybe some bands are going to ditch their record label’s CD factory and use digital downloads with the option of an on-demand CD-R.

Bears.......

beat the Lions.

Good one.

That DaP 5 is probably the best. The only real challengers for me would be DaP 23 (1/22/78), 29 (2/26/77), 11 (11/17/72), 17 (7/19/74), and 25 (11/6/77). But then there's 15 (4/22/78) . . .

I recently went looking for an old Chet Baker CD, and it's only available now as a download, or as one of those CD-Rs from Amazon. Seems legit, as it's licensed by the estate of Chet Baker. The cost of keeping a CD in print is prohibitive when the demand is low, but if one still wants a physical product with all the liner notes and cover art, then Amazon will burn you a copy for a few dollars more than the download. I think a Bob Seger CD I was looking for can be printed that way too.

Perhaps, but as you suggested we are getting an inferior product basically at full price. If they are going to do this, spend the extra money and get a professional quality machine and do it right. We pay the same price, get an inferior product and Amazon likely makes more money per CD than they do selling a standard CD that was made using the standard, higher quality manufacturing process.

It's a slipper slope, how long until Dave's Picks start coming to us as CDRs. I'm against it. I will pay an extra fifty cents or a dollar to have a real CD.

I spent some time looking into the CD-R situation and it seems that the main issue is the longevity of the CD-R and the fact that the longevity is dependent on how the disc is treated and the specifics of it's production. As Icecrmcnkd noted in his nice summary, the CD-R uses a dye layer. This dye layer is apparently sensitive to light exposure, to the extent that a couple weeks of direct sunlight may kill it. The information that I found indicated that there is significant variation between the light sensitivity and longevity of different CD-R discs depending on the type of dye layer used. There are a variety of factors involved, but the upshot seemed to be that a CD-R is not actually equivalent to a regular stamped audio CD and is a lesser quality product, to at least some degree, with a greater potential for failure.

Amazon makes clear that they are using this approach to save on warehouse costs and to make it possible to offer out of print releases in very limited quantities. That's great, seems like a good use of the technology. My problem is just with amazon selling CD-R copies of new releases that have an actual CD release available, or I as I can't help but feel, selling me a slightly inferior product when the full quality version is readily available. My apologies to any bored by my rambling OCD diversion into CD-R technology and the ethics of CD-R sales.

Interesting discussion of an area I am ignorant of. It makes sense, though, what has been written. I made a load CD-R copies around 10 years ago, mainly of cds I already had, but also of ones borrowed or of digital downloads.
I used these on long car journeys, but as they have long since stopped, I have stored them all in the attic...in direct line of sunlight. And lo and behold, a good many of them no longer play.

I didn't know you could buy CD-R editions from Amazon. This would only be attractive to me if they were of limited edition cds that are now sold out. The digital downloads don't have the sleeve notes. The one I have just looked up is the Muddy Waters double cd Hoochie Coochie Man Volume 2 Chess Masters on Hip O Select. It costs a small fortune for the regular cd, the download is cheap-but missing info-so a CD-R might be the way to go. But I couldn't see how to access such a thing, if, indeed it is available for this release.

Been listening to some earlier Dead lately after a little run of '73 shows. Gave DaP10 12/12/69 and DP16 11/8/69 a listen over the last couple of days and spinning DP22 2/23-24/68 now with that excellent Viola Lee Blues. Seemed like a good choice after finishing the first snow shoveling of the year on a gorgeous sunny day in the Bitterroot. Been a while since I listened to any of these and they hit the spot lately.

....unless you want something tomorrow. Then they're ok.
I just tested a CD-R I burned fifteen years ago. It played. Then again, my media room is dark as fuck. Bonus points!!
CD-R ethics. Hilarious. That is one of many reasons why I come here on almost a daily basis. Faceplant into Rokk.

The chink in the armor for DVD-M disk and other long store media would be high cost of ceramic or glass technology to be lost to another physical technology. We will always have two types of media for music/movies. One for the masses and one for the stubborn and older people not hip to the jive. Just like newspapers. I like newspaper form instead of buttons. After your done with a newspaper, you can roll it up and swat things like pests and people who ask to borrow your Dave's picks. It can also be used as a low cost telescope and giant spitwad straw. All been tried by the way.

....the social media rounds lately. I was born in 1968. Gen X. It's apparently a thing.
Social media has a big voice, yet a narrow spine.
I'm turning into my Dad.

When my kids mock me for something I remind them that they will turn into me as they age.

CARLO13

You mentioned listening to Spoonful by Cream a few days ago. I wonder if you’ve noticed that a 4cd boxset is going to be released in early Feb 2020. This will have the complete shows from the Goodbye tour in 1968. Three in the US and the Royal Albert Hall final concert. There’s a piece about it on the Rolling Stone website. I am looking forward to this.

I only buy physical product for Grateful Dead releases.
I’ve had defective CD’s, as well as damaged and defective vinyl from Rhino.
But I still want the physical product. It would just be nice if GD/Rhino would pick up their game on the manufacturing and quality control aspect of the process, as well as getting replacements out as fast as possible.

After I listen to new GD releases to confirm that they play defect free, I copy them to a hard drive and then make copies in various formats - AIFF, ALAC, FLAC, and AAC-320 (my car will only play mp3 from a flash drive).
I then make backup HD’s and store them in various locations.

Periodically I make data BD-R backups because optical is a different storage medium than the magnetic spinning discs in HD’s. In the future I am going to include SSD’s for a third medium.
Need to insure survival of the collection no matter what.

As a wise former visitor of this site once told me: “this collection is my audio 401k for retirement.”

Blank BD-R’s are $0.42 each for 25GB 50-pack.
That’s 25GB per disc x 50 discs.
That is a cheap insurance policy against a hard drive failure.
BD-R burners are on sale this week at OWC (you still need software to burn the disc).

You like your '77 / '78 Dead. I also like that Selland show you mentioned. Very easy on the ears. Better than DP 31, which is overrated in my opinion. It was the bomb in its time but better '74 has come along. Eyes of the World obviously stands out still.

Vguy I almost didn't recognize you with the new avatar. I think of people as their avatar in my mind's eye. You've always been red dice on green felt. Perrythecat is creepy upsidedown dude. Jim is Peabody or whichever the name of the human is. Icecreamconekid is clearly the kid they used to model for the Europe 72 album. KeithFan I actually think you're the ghost of Keith because I've never seen an avatar for you that's not a picture of him. Carlo you're just bearded top hat guy. Charlie3, a turtle to be sure.

Pleased to read of this. Hopefully sonically superior the glut of live Cream cds that have come out over the last 12 months or so.

:)))

Isn’t that Dr. Demento?

Colin Thanks for the heads up on the cream box. I really want this because the heavy cream album I have is out of print and the other live ones are all in my vinyl collection in storage. So the box is what I've been waiting for. Yes, that is Dr. Demento. He made me the person I am today. Crazy. The Dr. Turned me on to comedy like Dr. Timothy Learys turn on,tune in,drop out.

Ahhhhhh, you said......haha

Make sure to watch the Last Waltz.

Big time stuff.

Good idea, great little movie.

...and, we need a new release. When do they usually announce the second Dave's Picks of the year? Right around Christmas.. right?

Hopefully

I am cataloging my collection

into 78 now

anyway...I finally feel like I have "enough"

Except for Dave's
and whatever box sets intrigue me enough

Bob Weir before the start of Set II opening Wharf Rat!! I wish i knew what he was referring to..... Starting with set I Cold Rain and Snow which is so appropriate for our weather in New England, yesterday and today!!!! Boston Music Hall 12/2/73.... Be safe driving today.. bob t

Beats me, doesn't appear to be an FM Broadcast night.. They tried pretty hard not to be political.. Bobby is a bit of a sports nut, perhaps he was referring to the Iron Bowl the night before, Alabama 35, Auburn 0? Google wasn't much help so not sure, interesting though.

He did something similar on 10/28/85, "I wonder how many of you were watching TV last night" as they started into Kansas City. The night before (10/27) the Kansas City Royals won game 7 of the World Series hence the debut of Kansas City the next night (one of two times played live).

A Weir'd one.

I guess they are putting Int. Orders on hold for awhile until they catch up on American orders.

But if everyone else is doing exactly the same, I guess I'm waiting in vain ...

Ah well, hope to get Dave's Picks Volume 32 before the end of the year ... :-)

Micke Östlund,
Växjö, Sweden