Grateful Dead

Absolutely. Let's have two shows. In order.

....unless you wants songs cut before they were over. Now THAT would be unacceptable.

It would cost a dollar to add a fourth disc.

....which would be more than a dollar.
The archive or relisten is free btw.

I would have been phucing bald as Uncle Fester if I was a passenger in your sister’s boyfriend’s car! Amazing he never got picked up by highway patrol. I drove to my grandmother’s funeral in ‘81 with my brother driving, and one of my father’s siblings in the backseat of a Mazda - Toronto to Montreal, should be 5.5 hours, we were there in 3.5 hours.
I noticed my aunt did not drive back with us, and I think we made it back even quicker.
You’re right - that is an awesome Jerry tune!!! Gotta pull out one of the Jerry collection tonight!

There are other Dick's Picks and Dave's Picks with 4 discs. Or they could even drop the fourth disc in a cardboard sleeve inside the case like they do with bonus discs...

For those of you who are so protective of Dave/Dead.Net... do you really think they're too greedy to include a 4th disc?

Most bands take a couple years to put together an album to sell for $12 to a lot fewer people than buy these shows... I don't think it's a lot to ask that DP add an extra disc to preserve the original order.

"The archive is free"? That seems like a perfect response to people who disagree about keeping the shows in order.

If you listen on the archive why are you arguing about the CDs? If you listen on the archive then what's the concern about packing as much music as will fit on the CDs?

I think it makes sense to package the CDs for the CD-using audience... no?

....I'm not arguing? I'm discussing.

I didn't say you were being a jerk, because you're not.

I'm fine with you arguing-- I'm arguing as well.

But if you want to use a different word for the act of making repeated contrary assertions, feel free. I won't argue. :D

It must not be too big a problem to add a fourth disc to a release because they had four discs in both Dave's 36 and 40, which to be clear, I appreciated. I thought it was a sign that the folks at dead net and rhino are not just looking to maximize profits at the expense of customer satisfaction, but are willing to throw us a cool surprise now and again, on top of providing us with historic recordings that I still can't actually believe are being released in such quantities. We are, after all, kind of a niche market, and while I'm sure dead net and rhino are making a nice chunk of change off of these releases, I hardly think that we're all essential to their bottom line, pretty sure Warner and rhino will be just fine without us.

I would fall in the group that would prefer to pay a couple of dollars more for the subscription to include a fourth disc for one or more of the quarterly releases. Whey I pay for a disc, I just want to drop it in the player and play it, not program something every time to get it in the right order or burn it to a new disc to accomplish the same thing. Sorry if that just leaves anyone distressed or offended. Personally, I hear the arguments in favor of more music despite the disruption to the original song order and I see the merit of the argument, but I just have different priorities. And really, I just don't care enough to get upset that some of you folks prioritize the quantity of music over the actual sequence from the show. I enjoyed Dave's 43 a lot, I would have preferred it all to be in the right order - these statements are not mutually exclusive.

That US Blues is from the 90's release before that didn't fit. I look at it like old traders putting some extras on some bonus stuff for the weary...just because why not more GD. Really digging the Bobby Weir/Wolf Bros stuff, plus the Anthrax XL just noticed dug a few tracks off that always like ' keep it in the family.' Track order I didn't even notice on DaP #42 that Johnny b Goode and we bid you goodnight was on the second disc until...not sure? Didn't bother me, I just think to myself maybe they felt like coming back out for a long encore (disk 3). As for Dap #43 they could've hit random placement of songs with this (maybe not that extreme but you get it)and still wouldn't have mattered I listen to as is, and for this one I just think maybe I may have bogarted that j (digging some Little Feat today) and don't know what's going on anyhow. Hehe to me when its double 1969 gold blowing me up and suddenly disk 3 has the nerve to have everything it has but High Time, and Dark Star>New Speedway Boogie. YES! So my two cents that matters not is that we don't ask for more ways to increase pricing the current format is ok, like others mentioned with surprise 4th disks nice probably not always needed, just put whatever is left off on the next one that has time/space. My music varies favorites right now include Nick Cave, The National, Lord Huron, Been doing Beach Boys, Also listened to Zabriske Pointe SDtk today good stuff,. Plus not sure who mentioned the Garcia Bonnie Raitt show? Playing together or separate? Wow would've loved that. Also Traveling Wibury's that first album hits a couple spots hearing GH and RO to the end of the line. Everyone have a Grate Evening.

Laughing my ass off reading these posts.

Everybody just relax man we have you all night long...

Love Dave's Picks 43. An instant classic, just add jello.

...as for breathing walls, circa 1982 side 4 Electric Ladyland at high volume. Not only did the walls breathe, but they got very large and me small at the same time. I thought it best to leave the room and go outside until I could make sense of it all. Perhaps the best decision I made that night.

It's good to hear all these years later that I am not alone. Walls that breathe. Haa. Whew, mystery solved.

BTK, what I would give to have been at those Eel shows... ah, well, thankful for the ones I caught, wishful for the ones I missed.

As you were.. let me know when you get the song order thingie fixed.

Bonnie came out first and played, then Garcia came out and played, then Bonnie joined Garcia for
A few songs.

....fine. I'm tapping out.
Twas a fun discussion regarding flow. I'll take it.

I believe that That's What Love Will Make You Do is originally by Little Milton, and what a cool version it is.

....this Saturday Night. $3 on Fandango. No. Brainer.
"You're gonna need a bigger Dave's."

Have you seen the Folio Society issue of Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast trilogy advertised? I was slightly interested until I saw the price, £745 !!!! I still have my Penguin paperbacks housed in a card slipcase that I bought when I was about 13 in 1973. Absolutely enthralled me then and i still love that world. I did my first acid about a year later and found myself somewhere that felt very familiar and of course it was how I had always imagined Gormenghast to be. But £745 for three books?

Nick1234 - yes, that's taking the biscuit. I have never actually read the Gormenghast Trilogy..just never got round to it. Maybe it would be a good companion for these darkening days - although I am 52 years older now than you were when you first read it.

Dicks Picks 12 spinning this very minute-that's 6/26/74 and 6/28/74 highlights. Brilliant music - but case in point - I played the 1st cd last night, from 6/26/74, and opened today with the second disc from 6/28/74. Or so I thought-after a great "Eyes", Phil says "see you Friday night." Oh. I thought this WAS Friday night.

Incidentally, I always enjoy discussions - exploring subjects I am interested in with other people who are similarly interested. Arguing is a different matter-that's just someone trying to convince you they are right all the time. You can't really talk with people like that unless you agree with them. Or pretend to.

Reading the comments on 3 or 4 CDs with a bit of amusement, sorry. If possible you should all be listening to these shows digitally . Long story short I replaced my 2012 Ram stereo this year and to find a car radio with a CD player and android auto and Ipod usable was really hard, especially with the supply chain covid issues so I opted for one without a CD player and although a bit of a pain in the neck I downloaded the CDs to my phone then played it in the car. That stereo malfunctioned rather quickly and I was able to replace it with one that had all the functions and a CD player. After all that I did an experiment and played a CD and then played the same show on Android auto on my phone and the difference was astounding! The digital version sounded so much better and clearer and I felt a little foolish insisting I get a stereo with a CD player since I haven't listened to one since! I know it's a bit time consuming but if you download the CD and then arrange the songs in the proper order on your device, which is what I believe Dave and Rhino believe most people do, there is no issue with the order the songs are on the CDs.
Just my humble opinion. Thanks

If the point was to accommodate folks listening from digital downloads I would think they would sell digital downloads. It's a very common practice. I think vinyl releases should be designed for folks to listen to on vinyl, and CDs designed with folks who listen on CD in mind.

I'm glad that it works for you folks who download your CDs and re-arrange them but I don't think that is a reason to not sequence the CDs in the correct order. If they put the songs in order you could still download them and have them in order (or shuffle them up if you wanted) and I could pop them in my CD player and have them in order.

I posted my comment hoping that JUST MAYBE someone from Dead.Net might actually read the comments on the "product page"--not to start a debate. Of course everyone is free to respond however they see fit.

But the point about how the customers can fix the messed-up CDs by downloading the music and not using the CDs seems silly. It's like if you gave a chair a negative review on Amazon because it arrived broken and I replied that it wasn't really a problem because I take all my chairs apart and make them into tables, so what's the problem with a broken chair-- they make great tables.

J3FF - I I have enjoyed reading your posts, but I think your'e barking up the wrong tree if you think anyone from Deadnet ( apart from Marye) reads them - let alone acts on them. To me, this is an outlet for discussion and expressing ideas - not changing policy. I think if I wanted to do that I think I send a pm to Marye, and ask her if she knew the best way of going about it.

Peteh - I don't even own a phone! I know....I'm living in the past.

Charlie - I never did know who did the original version of this song, and I was not familiar with Little Milton, but you are right, a great version, and some pretty sweet fretwork.
It is incredible the wealth and range of music Jerry and the boys knew, considering the internet was not really a thing for most, if not all, of Jerry’s or the Dead’s life. We can check out new or recommended artists with a quick search, but these guys came by their influences quite organically. Jerry selected some real keeper tunes that he made his own during his solo career, and this tune was always welcome.
What’s your favourite Jerry/JGB solo song? Don’t Let Go…Dear Prudence…That Lucky Old Sun…anything Dylan…???

“Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies. Farewell and adieu to you ladies of Spain.”

I used to think all CD players are the same.. I mean, they playback identical digital information, right.. so if they do their job it should sound the exact same as the next player, right?

Writing this, I understand 90% of the people here know audio equipment better than me and most have better systems than me. I bet others chime in with more accurate information..

But there is a big difference between both players and the digital amps/preamps, etc. The digital encoder and playback functionality makes a big difference. The fact that your phone does a better job playing back your CDs than the CD player speaks more of the CD player and amp than anything else. Unfortunately.. things are not simple and rarely are as they appear. The folks that spend a small fortune on audio equipment are usually getting better sound and for a reason.

As to the previous point on song order, complete shows, getting the encore from one show two releases down the line as filler on a subsequent Dave's Picks, etc, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you. Your point is singular, however, and other variables exist. What most find amusing, including me, is your tone. I think you underestimate Dave and what he has to contend with on the corporate side of things. These are first world problems to be sure and the fix isn't really that big of a deal. The model they set up is basically a three CD model that tries to release complete shows (or as complete as 'possible') four times a year allowing one bonus CD per year. They have on rare occasion tossed in an extra CD free of charge for subscribers, but they do charge extra ala carte for these. It's a minor inconvenience to tackle ripping them, adjusting the metadata so they play in the right order and burning the set using an extra disc or two. If you are constantly playing the originals, one day you will likely create a 'mistake' with one of these soon to be priceless discs and then you might be horrified to find it hopelessly out of print and have a decision to make in replacing it on the secondary market or sending your kid to college.. (sorry little Johnny!). We got an extra show for free, a twofer, and a spectacular one at that so most here are delighted with this one probably including Dave. Plus as DaveRock chimed in Lemieux isn't reading this and if he is, he certainly would not be mining our opinions to improve the series.

If it were my choice these two shows would have gotten their own release possibly meaning two 3 CD releases in the correct order with lots of black space on the discs (or some killer 69 filler) or they would have gotten stand-alone treatment in the form of Bear's Choice Volume 2. From my perspective, we would have gotten another 1969 release bumping up this neglected year. Both shows are release worthy, they sound great and the performances are worthy. I can only imagine the complaints we would have gotten, rotten tomatoes on the empty discs, etc.

Anyway, their primary responsibility is to restore these mostly ancient and delicate analog master reels and remaster them using the best tools and sound engineers (really these guys are master craftsman/artists) and get them out before they decay into oblivion and are forgotten to antiquity. The lonely reels aging in the vault are decaying and breaking down, but the time to restore and our ability to pay for all this is limited. If you look at it that way they are doing a very good job. Is everyone happy 100% of the time? Are decisions made in the production, packaging and marketing we find unfortunate? Yes! Well, we are fickle bunch, we cannot agree on anything.

Back your previously scheduled favorite keyboardist discussion complete with thoughtful analysis and detail supporting your points while still being very careful not to offend anyone who thinks differently.

I hope I did not offend. As you were.

...not to chum up the fray, but more to jimmy's point about the CDs being 'master copies' to us lay-folk, many of us do understand these are our own 'master' copies, and, therefore, a typical first procedure upon receipt for those who want to preserve these historical artifacts is to immediately plop them into our CD burners and burn them to a hard drive for forever safe keeping. A second step then, for those who love CDs (aka, me, others, most of us), is to burn a 'working copy' of said CD to then tote around. This way, it can get scraped, scratched, chain-sawed, whatever - and we can still go back to the original well and obtain an exact duplicate, pristine copy. And, if we do it right, that copy will have all songs in chronological order if that suits the listener.

Just my two cents.

At the end of the day - healthy discussion, seeing all sides, finding a throughway string, and meeting in the middle are talents that more and more human beings are unable to implement. This forum does go a long way to implement these tools, and for this I know we are All Grateful.

Be Well, People.
Sixtus

Just for the sake of busting balls,,,, take my wife is Henny Youngman (I think I'm right,,,, take my memory!)

I check and indeed had Little Milton,,, nice cut.

All that talk about fast cars,,,,, made me pull out Solomon Burke doing "Fast Train". (yes my mind make odd connections!) (if you don't know Solomon's cover of this tune,,,, find it!)

Got amazon email,,,, Miles boot 7 coming on 9/16 (cd and vinyl).

Also, slow as I am,,, didn't realize that TTB I Am the Sun,,, sorry Moon,,, was a 4 part collection. Ordered all 4 yesterday,,, they are coming today,,,, thanks Vguy?

Still no word on the vinyl release of the "from the vault" series?!?! (wiping tear now)

.... think about how those poor bastards feel who bought the Lyceum digital. Now there's a bunch I feel for,,,, how can downloads not work????

Yes, I'd forgotten Mr. Youngman. Another master of self deprecating humor.
And now for something completely different.
Three weeks until MSG.
Cheers

Dennis, I saw Solomon Burke play at the S.F Blues Festival one year, he was great.

hey now, it took me till 2000 before I got a computer, and I don't think I will be buying into that phone stuff either. But you never can tell. You can if you want to.
I remember back in the 70's we did a trip from Orlando to West Palm Beach in less than an hour and a half. We got behind a highway patrol car doing over 100mph followed him for many miles until he finally slowed down, got behind me and pulled me over. I got out of the car laughing and said, "I was only following you". He checked my license, said "slow down" and let us go. No roadside sobriety test, no ticket, nothing. Those were the days, but I don't recommend it today.
Breathing walls, yes, I have experienced that, kind of made me laugh. Now how about total loss of vision except for colors and patterns? I keep rubbing my eyes and saying, "did you see that?" No one did but me. The next time someone talked to me I said, "You can see me?" Those were the best days.
CD song order, mountain out of a mole hill.

You are correct - Henny Youngman was the source!
Did you see the Internet address I printed out a few days ago for the UHQR Clarity Vinyl Treatment edition of Kind of Blue? (If you’re interested, that is?).
So is it just 16 more sleeps until Miles Bootleg Vol 7?
Excellent choice on acquiring TTB. Truly the “double album” of the year (broken into 4 parts, I know…)

Looked great, but it was 150 bucks. My wife would REALLY not understand :-)

plus i've already spent a load on "other" things. Got that Eye-talian disease,,,,, fundsalow.

It's on the list though!

Mike - that is one of the all time classic movie lines. Thanks for sharing.

Dave - you stole my thunder. The song sequencing on both DP12 and DP4 are out of order. Would you rather have those shows not released? Again, they are among the best of the entire series.

....each release is relatively short. 35-40 minutes. They could have easily combined two into one and made it a double release.....(jk. I'm done)

While I do agree with Jeff in theory, his proposed solution isn't as straightforward as he makes it seem. Just add another disc - it can't cost more than x. But its not that simple. Anyone who has watched Dave's seaside chats - and some people parse them as if Dave were Q him(/her?)self - knows that only after a big increase in subscriptions could Dave wrangle a 4-discer non-bonus situation release out of Rhino. They are not putting this music out only from the goodness of their heart; the bottom line has to work too. A lot of heads just don't seem to understand that this is a business, and with the way most people consume music now, Rhino, Dave etc. decided the increase in cost to produce shows with song lists in order, and the necessary price increase to cover that, weren't worth the squeeze.

And even if they did decide to do that, which they could - people would bitch and moan about that, or something just as silly. Just look over the last two pages of comments. Filler sucks! More filler! WTF?

Any recommendations for the best programs for gapless ripping/burning CDs?

Thanks

P.T., Daverock, and me.
I thought I was the only human on the planet that doesn't have one.
Wife has had a cheapo not smart one for years but never used it. We always said it was for emergencies. She finally got a smart one this year as she will need it for her planned new telescope. So we got the wi-fi to go with it and now my little computer is slower than ever. I'll open a tab and it will go to an error message saying I'm not connected for many seconds. Too cheap to have it looked at and too dumb to figure out how to reconfigure it. Only benefit so far is that we can both browse at the same time instead of taking turns on the desktop. Didn't even get this computer until 2015 by which time you had to have an email address to do just about anything. Got tired of having to go to the library to check my emails. We had a computer in 1990 but of course no internet back then.
Despite the conveniences I just don't need one. Leave a message on the land line and I'll get back with you in half a day or less. Ah, the good old days. Nobody calls me anyway unless they are trying to sell me something.
A favorite song with phone reference, Please Don't Leave Me Wondering No Longer - ABB
"Tell me why when the phone rings baby, you're up and across the floor" (add slide guitar here).
Cheers

Jack - It is indeed a great line from a blockbuster movie (when “blockbuster” meant quality not ticket sales) said by the incomparable Robert Shaw. VGuy mentioned getting tix to see it in IMAX (not sure how that will look in that format), and so many great scenes and lines come to mind!

Dennis - I totally get it.

VGuy - After “reading the room” regarding the posts concerning the “4th CD” for DaP 43, I really shouldn’t have bothered mentioning making TTB’s “Moon” a double album. I think that is what they call a “rapport breaker”. It makes no difference, it’s a brilliant suite, regardless.
(Fun fact: We all know this “Moon” saga is loosely based on the ancient Persian poem that inspired Layla, which begat a classic Derek & the Dominoes album that featured Brother Duane, and how Derek Trucks came to be named because of etc etc etc. The fact that blew my mind was Susan Tedeschi was born on the EXACT day that Layla was released. Yea, I felt a chill run up my spine, too!)

I do think there's a possibility some of you are being naive in thinking that business realities preclude adding an extra disc.

Garcia Family Provisions puts out 3-disc shows from the 70s for about $22, with much lower sales volume and presumably making a profit.

I'm not ignoring business realities--I feel like to the contrary the folks that assume Dave/Dead.net/Rhino are doing all they possibly could to get the most music out are being Pollyanaish. I think there's plenty of wiggle room to put the music out in complete shows--with a 4th disc--and still make a tidy profit.

I think it's inconsistent to say "hey it's a business" and in the next sentence say "well Dave said it is tough to add an extra disc so it must not be possible."

They are a very lucky business though to have so many customers that argue against someone asking them to deliver a better product.

Had to look it up to be sure.
"Pollyannaish, means “unrealistically optimistic.” If someone is acting Pollyannaish, then they are judged as showing an optimism that is extremely naive and unthinking. "

So I guess a lot of us are naive and unthinking, thanks a lot - Jeff, can you make your point without being so disparaging?

I don't really understand why so many folks want to step in and argue back against a customer asking for a better product.

If I put a review/customer feedback on any other website asking for something to be improved I don't think so many other customers would argue back about why Nike or Honda or whoever can't do what I'm suggesting...

What a great actor.

"Lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a doll's eyes."

Loved him in The Sting as well.

Hands down, no hesitation, Don't Let Go would be my favorite JGB tune. From the first time I heard it on a bootleg of the 1982 JGB Music Mountain show in NY I was hooked, but every version I've got is pretty killer. Particularly a fan of the version from the JBG 2 CD release titled Don't Let Go, from the May 21, 1976 Orpheum Theatre show. Lots of great stuff in that show.

My discovery of Little Milton was just random happenstance. I was listening to the radio and there was a radio show hosted by Bob Dylan which included That's What Love Will Make You Do by Little Milton. Never know what you might learn if you're not careful while making your way through the day.

It ain't what you say, it's the way how you say it.
Your "I don't feel you really appreciate the experience of live Dead" comment was arrogant and unnecessary.

If someone told me they hit shuffle when they listen to Abbey Road would it be awful of me to say "I don't think you fully appreciate the experience of an album"?

He cut some great tracks for Sun Records in the 1950s too. Incredible guitar sound. The word coruscating comes to mind.
Istshow - you seem to have a similar attitude to technology as myself ! The telescope sounds more fun than the phone.

I'd tell them to get the original pressing of the LP on vinyl, no shuffling possible! Latest remaster wasn't great, by the way.

Jack - I forgot all about the “doll’s eye” line! THAT is a classic! He made a bunch of great movies, agree on The Sting, and I always loved The Taking Of Pelham One Two Three (before that sad remake with Travolta). Gone far too soon. RIP!

Charlie - Don’t Let Go is a great choice! My favourite is him and Keith going back and forth on that really extended version on “Pure Jerry: Theatre 1839”. But Garcia could even take songs that were so-so originals, like Bruce Cockburn’s “Waiting For A Miracle”, and make it way better (I read Gloria Jones, a gospel singer by trade, recommended that one to Jerry).

Jack - One more, I can’t resist. Which character’s line is this:
“Martin, it’s all psychological. You yell, “Barracuda,” everybody says, “huh, what?” You yell “Shark,” we’ve got a panic on our hands on the Fourth of July.”

Thanks for the word of the day Daverock. Had to look it up, but now I know what coruscating means. Cool word.