Dave's Picks Volume 27: Boise State University Pavilion, Boise ID 9/02/83

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October 3, 2017 - 1:26pm

1,815 replies

heatherlew

Joined:
October 12, 2016

"The Grateful Dead picked up their instruments and hit the first note with perfection. They never missed a note for the next three and one-half hours. People followed the flow of the tunes. Down on the floor in front of the stage was a sea of heads keeping time with the music. No one sat still. No one, except the youngsters behind us sat still. They were still and stunned." - The Power County Press

And what a stunner it was, that show at the Boise State University Pavilion in Boise, ID on September 2, 1983. Dave's Picks Volume 27 contains every stitch of music from this mid-80s show (our first in this series), one that's as good as any other in Grateful Dead history. When the Dead were on, they were ON! Straight out the gate with a definitive take on the old standard "Wang Dang Doodle," the band swiftly switches back to a setlist of yore, firing off 70s staples like "Jack Straw" and "Brown-Eyed Women" and wrapping things up with a terrific trio of "Big Railroad Blues"/"Looks Like Rain"/"Deal" (don't you let that epic guitar solo go down without you). Primed for the second set, they tackle the complexities of "Help>Slipknot!>Franklin's" with heart and ease. It's clear there will be no stopping their flow - Bobby and Brent hanging in for a fantastic pre-Drums "Jam" and Jerry and Bobby in the zone on a not-to-be-missed melodic "Space." Not a skipper in the whole lot!

Dave's Picks Volume 27 has been mastered to HDCD specs by Jeffrey Norman and it is limited to 18,000 individually-numbered copies*.

*Limited to 2 per order. Very limited quantity available.

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July 30, 2018 - 2:31pm

#1151

JeffSmith

Joined:
June 9, 2014

Thanks Oroborous

Very well 'splained! I needed that! ;-)
July 30, 2018 - 2:27pm

#1152

Oroborous

Joined:
June 19, 2007

Bob’s slide

I liked the slide, eventually, once he became proficient....obviously not a virtuoso, but he did with slide like he did with everything else...his own way. Not going to argue that it didn’t sound worse than train brakes screeching or a cat in heat early on though!
July 30, 2018 - 2:24pm

#1153

Vguy72

Joined:
June 29, 2007

Three brothers. Aged 92, 94 and 96 live together....

...One night the 96 year old draws a bath, puts his foot in and pauses. He yells down the stairs, "Was I getting in or out of the bath?" The 94 year old yells back, "I don't know, I'll come up and see." He starts up the stairs and pauses, then he yells, "Was I going up the stairs or coming down?" The 92 year old was sitting at the kitchen table having coffee listening to his brothers. He shakes his head and says, "I sure hope I never get that forgetful." He knocks on wood for good luck. He then yells, "I'll come up and help both of you as soon as I see who's at the door."
July 30, 2018 - 2:23pm

#1154

cub

Joined:
March 20, 2008

Apples vs Oranges

I concur Captain Kirk, on all points. Has anyone found a better Boise '83 recording to post on here yet? NO. Thank you
July 30, 2018 - 1:40pm

#1155

mhammond12

Joined:
September 15, 2009

DaP 27

My problem with this release is Jerry's voice. It is shot. During Black Peter I thought Jerry was going to die before Peter does.
July 30, 2018 - 1:25pm

#1156

daverock

Joined:
September 1, 2014

Bob's slide-Thin

So we agree-neither of us like Bob's slide playing. I was speculating on why someone might like it. In so doing I was reframing his..unusual.. approach as being the result of experimentation , rather than poor technique. No big deal. I wasn't aware this was a cliché-I've never read anyone else saying that. Unsurprisingly!
July 30, 2018 - 1:01pm

#1157

Oroborous

Joined:
June 19, 2007

Point of reference and apples vs oranges

It’s painful to see folks trying to “compare” these wildly different kinds of recordings.So perhaps I can give a bit of reference for those who don’t understand? (If you do, pardon moi) The two biggetst apples vs oranges things to consider are multi-track versus 2 track stereo, and the purpose of the mix involved. The stuff most all y’all love so much were purposely, consciously mixed to listen to more like a studio mix if you will; balanced guitars, vocals etc. Betty et el had separate feeds JUST for recording, to listen to later etc. The 80s stereo mixes etc were a feed off the soundboard of which the mix was for the live reinforcement of sound relative to the venue etc. Guitars are often so loud on stage, that not as much needs to be reinforced through the PA, while the voice doesn’t normally have a “loud amp” so they need to be more prominent in the mix.....voices and acoustic instruments are not as loud as “guitar amps”....if you’ve ever tried to have a conversation next to someone cranking an amp you understand this... Now out in the audience, preferably in front of the soundboard, everything sounds appropriate, balanced etc. That’s the purpose of a live reinforcement mix; to sound balanced and good in the audience, so one can hopefully fully appreciate each and every channel. Also, unless you have a multi-track mix, you cannot go back and change individual tracks later. This would be like trying to lower the level of the bass guiitar, on a stereo, 2 track album your plating in your living room. You can mess with the tone of the bass, but you can’t do much about how loud or soft it was mixed. That’s why multi-track releases usually sound better. Perfect example is Live Dead, Skull fuck and Europe 72. Though they were recorded live, because their multi-track recordings, they were able to go back and sweat-in up the vocals, and in some cases even do overdubs (redos). That’s how they added Merls organ on Skull Fuck. Nowadays with auto tune, they can go back and fix flat or sharp vocals. My guess is they’ve done that with some of the old 70 shows, and DG in particular... The multi-tracks tend to be what audio folks call more “airy,” they breathe more, there is not as much compression of all the different sources, so the instruments stand out better. There is also the matter of physics as related to the increased tape area of multi track to cassette, and the usually increased speed the multi’s were recorded at. This also makes a huge difference. They multi’s also don’t usually have much as far as effects on them. That is added later as need be, for different purposes, and usually more sparingly, another plus of Muliti. The live house mix has the same effects used by Healy to enhance the sound in the venue, not for your living room, and certainly not for your car.... Hopefully this helps to see how completely different these techniques are, and how their inherent characteristics based on their intended purposes make them so very different......also hope it helps understand how often the vocal to instrument balance can be so different too? One more notable fact. No soundboard recording, whether multi or stereo sounds exactly like the actual instruments recoded. Take Phil’s Alembic bass sounds on all the 70s releases everyone loves so much. As great as Beatty et el did, I’ve never heard a SB only mix that sounds what his rig really sounds like live in a actual hall. This is based on owning/using the same gear, and working with other musicians as a tech. There is Increased full freaquncy range live, versus the often overly middy sound of especially the Alembic basses direct....this is in part because a direct to tape mix does not incorporate all the other gear in the line; pre-Amps, eq, even the power amps can effect tone, especially more power. The great thing about huge amps isn’t that they can be louder, it’s that they have way more tone, or fuller sound, without having to be loud! So if you must compare, try to understand what your comparing. Of course with any audio, gear, speaker set up etc. the bottom line is YOUR point of reference and what YOU like. Also, the Dead played for thirty years, not four or seven....some of us want to hear as much of all years as reasonably possible. Obviously there are some shows that are better than others, and some years have much more consistency But that doesn’t mean there are not great shows from all years. The problem is mostly finding both great shows, that were recorded well that also sound great.... This is what Dave has alluded to. And yes, unfortunely, for much of the eighties these 2 track House mixes are all there is. I’m with the folks who would rather have a great show, even only from a house mix. As Eecktars rule of relativity states sometimes “a little bit of somethin’ is better than all of nothing” And hey, like some have said, If unfortunately you don’t dig some of this stuff a) don’t buy it, b) don’t listen, and/or c) sell it or pass it on “take what you need and leave the rest”! Remeber what I think Vguy said “ remember how bad old shitty cassettes with the hiss, wow, and flutter sounded” This perhaps is a fairer more reasonable comparison; old 2 track cassette soundboards to this type of release. Comparing Multi track recordings intended for remix, mastering and duplication for release I.e., 90 boxes, E72, Live Dead etc, to stereo cassettes based off of the house mix and intended more as a way to critique the house mix, is beyond apples and oranges ; )
July 30, 2018 - 11:55am

#1158

twoswans

Joined:
October 30, 2016

Late to the bus

I make every effort not to think about how much we paid for Dave’s Picks 1 thru 10. Or all the box sets we missed first time around. Very glad we own them as we love it all, but it took a large amount of money to own em’. At least we’re caught up now and can own what’s going to come out from now on.
July 30, 2018 - 11:52am

#1159

Thin

Joined:
June 21, 2013

daverock re: Bobby's slide

daverock, if your comment is not meant to be ironic, I applaud your positive spin on Bobby's slide. But with all due respect, you're comment comically hits EVERY cliché in the book! You sound like the father of 3rd grader following a disastrous violin recital, PLEADING with his wife to let the lessons continue.. After 52 Dead shows I think I have PTSD and am not capable of blowing such blindly effusive sunshine, or even reading it without a visceral gag reflex. (And vGuy, that photo is priceless). Bobby is inventive in his rhythm playing, but slide? When you have no licks and ZERO pitch awareness/control (Duane never hit a discordant note within a year of learning slide), then just say No. Jerry was asked if he was embarrassed by Bobby's slide in an interview, and he responded "Well, HE isn't embarrassed which is all that matters" as if to say: "Yep, embarrassing, but what do you want me to do?". And I disagree with the assertion that "he didn't rely on tried and tested licks when he played slide". Yes he did - he played the most basic, sophomoric licks imaginable - and basically the same stuff every time!! I bet you can't find two Bobby slide solos on Minglewood that are materially different - I can whistle his basic formula in my sleep, unfortunately: one verse (4 notes!) low on the neck, then repeat the same 4 notes up an octave (genius!), going to the 3rd octave on the turnaround!!! That 3rd octave is the killer - ALL the way up the neck beyond the frets and even the neck pickup (the Cheez Wiz zone) where pitch control is almost impossible, hitting nonsensical discordant shrieks while posing flamboyantly like Pete Townshend (I'm CRUSHING this!!!!!") - as if piercing, warbly dog-frequencies are musical Nirvana. (However, if your wording of "didn't rely on tried and tested licks" means he didn't practice, then I agree!) Bobby's slide playing makes Donna's early-70's "Playing' in the Band" warbles sound like virtuosity, yet people flame her mercilessly. At least Donna eventually figured out how to better monitor herself and make it work after a year or two, while after 3 decades of playing slide Bobby still sounds like a struggling middle school guitar student. Phew! OK, I feel better now.... that hit a nerve..... Apologies if my strong opinion upsets any Bobby-soxers out there. But if ya can't handle an honest, unfiltered opinion on the internet... (And yes, his rhythm guitar IS undeniably unique and inventive, of course, starting in '72/'73. Perhaps the most underrated rhythm player ever. Wait till you hear Bobby on 6/22/73!!! Hall-of-Fame stuff.)
July 30, 2018 - 11:13am

#1160

cub

Joined:
March 20, 2008

Back To The Future with Stereo

After offering my positive review of the quality of Dave's 27, I was reading the many so-so, reviews about which instruments are not heard compared to other releases. How are you listening to this? Are you formulating your opinion based on a car multi-speakers or ear buds (high-end headphones aside) or a MONO mini blue tooth speaker? I just got back to listening to all my GD and JGB in STEREO. Try a listen with some floor standing speakers (3 way) and 2 dedicated amplifiers about 250w ea. I was recently gifted this gear from a fellow head who had it in climate-storage for 28 years. I started to re-listen to everything I was sent from GD mdse and WOW what a game changer. I Instantly tried kicking myself for having left stereo listening of the 70s and 80's for multi-speaker Dolby Theater setups of the mid-90s', to present day 7 speaker home theaters w subs and rear speaker's. Now it's "Back-To-The-Future" listening with only two speakers separate from my home theater. The shows are not recorded for multi speaker Dolby, so why play them that way. Stereo images across the landscape between the two speakers (not across your desk) so that you can hear the different instruments and vocals spread-out as played on the stage. Now if anyone wants to school me on STEREO or your particular home system equipment I'm all ears. Thank you PS: Due to permanent/painful ear damage I'm not the one who listens to my purchases with headphones.

John Perry Barlow

John Perry Barlow

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"The Grateful Dead picked up their instruments and hit the first note with perfection. They never missed a note for the next three and one-half hours. People followed the flow of the tunes. Down on the floor in front of the stage was a sea of heads keeping time with the music. No one sat still. No one, except the youngsters behind us sat still. They were still and stunned." - The Power County Press

And what a stunner it was, that show at the Boise State University Pavilion in Boise, ID on September 2, 1983. Dave's Picks Volume 27 contains every stitch of music from this mid-80s show (our first in this series), one that's as good as any other in Grateful Dead history. When the Dead were on, they were ON! Straight out the gate with a definitive take on the old standard "Wang Dang Doodle," the band swiftly switches back to a setlist of yore, firing off 70s staples like "Jack Straw" and "Brown-Eyed Women" and wrapping things up with a terrific trio of "Big Railroad Blues"/"Looks Like Rain"/"Deal" (don't you let that epic guitar solo go down without you). Primed for the second set, they tackle the complexities of "Help>Slipknot!>Franklin's" with heart and ease. It's clear there will be no stopping their flow - Bobby and Brent hanging in for a fantastic pre-Drums "Jam" and Jerry and Bobby in the zone on a not-to-be-missed melodic "Space." Not a skipper in the whole lot!

Dave's Picks Volume 27 has been mastered to HDCD specs by Jeffrey Norman and it is limited to 18,000 individually-numbered copies*.

*Limited to 2 per order. Very limited quantity available.

Re: Dark Star and Phil Boise

Of course, Live Dead D-Star is amazing, so so familiar, too, from back in the day. My favorite, though, has gotta be 8/24/72- just a couple shows before Veneta. First heard that D-Star->Dew on a dead hour so many years ago....amazing stuff. Interesting that Phil recalls that Boise show, huh? And you're right, not so much for the show as for the time period, etc. He's definitely amped for that one, as you can no doubt tell from his opening "announcement."

"Forget about the Dead you left"

"They will not follow you" ~ 4.2.89 ~ Pittsburgh, PA https://archive.org/details/gd89-04-02.beyerM88.connor.29734.sbeok.shnf… http://www.psilo.com/dead/showshow.php?band=1&date=1989-4-2 " Highway is for Gamblers , you better use your sense " And it's all over now baby blue

Dark Star

2/27/69 (Live/Dead version) is etched in my soul due to the sheer number of times I've heard it in my life but it's still a little undeveloped for me to call it the best. 2/13/70 is the best Dark Star of all time. Rounding out my top 5 would be: 4/8/72 9/21/72 5/11/72 8/27/72 There are obviously several great 73-74 versions of this song (the one on Dave's Picks 9 in particular), but 72 was the peak for me when it comes to Dark Star.

The later DStars

I can't imagine picking the best 68-74 DStar! 2/13/70, 5/11/72, 8/27/72? Yes! But all the others are great too! I do think DStar is THE song that epitomizes "The Grateful Dead". So, what about the 80s/90s DStars? There's: Oakland Auditorium 12/31/81 Greek Theater, Berkeley 7/13/84 (probably the weakest pre-92 DStar) Hampton 10/9/89 The big return. I dig it! Brendan Byrne 10/16/89 Miami 10/26/89 My personal fave of this period. Oakland 12/31/89 Nassau 3/29/90 Washington, D.C. 7/12/90 My second favorite. (8 with Brent, 5 released officially) NYC 9/20/90 Berlin 10/20/90 London 11/1/90 Denver 12/12/90 Denver 12/14/90 (part 2 of 12/12) Oakland 12/31/90 Greensboro 4/1/91 RFK, Washington, D.C. 6/14/91 Giants 6/17/91 Chicago 6/22/91 Denver 6/28/91 (really just a tease) Shoreline 8/16/91 Shoreline 8/17/91 (part 2 of 8/16) Richfield 9/6/91 (really just a tease) MSG, NYC 9/8/91 MSG, NYC 9/10/91 Boston Garden 9/24/91 Boston Garden 9/26/91 Oakland 10/31/91 Landover 3/9/92 Hamilton, Ontario 3/20/92 Richfield 6/8/92 Charlotte 6/18/92 Pittsburgh 6/22/92 Oakland 12/12/92 Oakland 12/16/92 Landover 3/17/93 Deer Creek 6/23/93 Philadelphia 9/13/93 MSG, NYC 9/22/93 Rosemont 3/16/94 Atlanta 3/30/94 (approx 27 with Vince, 4 released) The 92-94 DStars are all under 15 minutes (12/12/92 is 18 minutes, but in 2 parts). Even with the 80s/90s DStars, my favorites are really just ones that I am more familiar with or heard before my memory bank space for "fave DStar dates" filled up.

Ooops

Ditto

Did Somebody Say Dark Star?

...it's been a while...thought I would repost this one from a few years back, while on the subject of this majestic monster... 4/8/1972 - Wembly Empire Pool, London - 32 mins; intense/fast paced first leg up til about 10 mins then returns to DS theme for 1st verse; spacey post-verse til ~17 min, then pace picks up for a few minutes, followed by a brief meltdown; additional spaciness around 24 mins followed by another full meltdown; interesting groove established around 28 min that has hints of Sugar Mag (into which it segues, flawlessly). No second verse. 4/14/1972 - Tivoli Concert Hall, Copenhagen, DK - 29 mins; loose first 10 mins not overly spacey; gets spacey around 11 mins; interesting groove establishes around 16 min to head into first verse w/interesting beat; heads off into intense nearly 7-minute jam inclusive of a very tight and fast Feelin Groovy jam; final 3 minutes are a meltdown. No second verse. 4/17/1972 - Tivoli Concert Hall, Copenhagen, DK - 31 mins; spacey opening to about 7:30 when first DS theme emerges leading to 1st verse at 9:45. Spacey post-2nd verse tries to take off but melts further around 19 min; returns to a partial groove around 24:30 and closes out with spaceyness in the last 2 mins. No second verse. 4/24/1972 - Rheinhalle, Dusseldorf, Germany - Split by Me & My Uncle; 26 mins 1st half, 14:30 second half. Spacey opening until about 8:45 where it coalesces and falls into first DS theme around 10:15 followed shortly by 1st verse with slow, sparse notes. Spacey feedback following verse until 15:45 and then picks up into an intense, fast paced jam for just under 2 minutes before it becomes dissonant again leading to major meltdown which eventually heads into Me & My Uncle with ease. Second half: spacey reintroduction persists until about 7 mins, where Keith leads-in with some piano phrasing and then the band follows into a tight fast paced jam where Jerry plays some lines back and forth as if in conversation with himself and then maintains an intense level effortlessly segueing into Wharf Rat. No second verse. 4/29/1972 - Musikhalle, Hamburg, Denmark - 30 mins; spacey opening for ~5 mins, then enters a groove and Phil hints at the Feeling Groovy jam until it finally is joined by Jerry a minute later until about 8:00, then the floor drops out into space. DS theme appears at 14 min which leads to first verse. Spacey post-verse noodling leads to major meltdown, settling in at 22 mins with a fat, fast-paced Keith-led groove. Final 4 mins are spacey & lead to major melt #2, dropping into Sugar Mag as DS finally melts away. No second verse. 5/4/1972 - Olympia Theatre, Paris - Split by drums; 19 mins 1st half; 17:34 2nd half. Spacey opening til about 6 mins when fast paced jam kicks in until 11:20, slowing down then resurrecting the DS theme into the first verse. 4 mins of space leads into drums. Second half post-drums is very spacey until 7 mins, then kicks into overdrive with a very high energy jam leading to a phenominal Feelin Groovy Jam for several minutes before settling into the second verse. DS dissipates into the Sugar Mag from E'72. 5/7/1972 - Bickershaw Festival, Wigan, UK - 19:49 mins; decent, coherent jamming for the first several minutes that congeals nicely around 8 minutes. Bottom falls out around 10 mins and leads to some light noodling, cymbal fills and space. DS theme emerges at 14:23 and heads into 1st verse. Space fills the air through the remainder of the song until it totally breaks down into drums. No second verse. 5/11/1972 - Rotterdam Civic Hall, Netherlands - Split by drums; 13:45 mins 1st half; 30:34 mins 2nd half; Opens with a light, airy jam that persists to congeal into a decent groove as it treads in and out of spacey phrasing. This settles into a mysterious sounding jam that grows with intensity without a return to the DS theme before dissolving into drums. Emerging from drums, Phil and Billy duel for 2 minutes before Jerry joins back in with some complimentary thoughts; the DS theme appears around 5 min followed by 1st verse. A few moments of spacey feedback give way to spacey noodling that devolves into a full blow chaotic meltdown, only to emerge around 19:30 into a very nice, fast paced groove that hints at Caution and PITB jams. This eventually dissolves and a light, sparse outro ends the song as it heads off into Sugar Mag. No second verse. 5/18/1972 - Kongressaal, Muenchen, Denmark - 28:20 mins; almost 2 mins of noodling before opening notes from Phil; a loose jam ensues around the DS theme for the next several minutes and then decays. At ~9 min an interesting jam emerges, which eventually settles back into the DS theme and 1st verse around 14:30. The remainder of this DS is borderline chaos as it treads in and out of varying degrees of a meltdown until it settles into Morning Dew. No second verse. 5/23/1972 - The Strand Lyceum, London - 30 mins; Spacey opening minutes lead to tight fast paced jam commencing around 3:30 for two minutes and then it settles into another spacey jam digressing to almost…nothing. Billy and Phil then have a small duel until ~13:30 when the rest of the band fills back into a delicate groove which grows to into a jam reminiscent of the post-Truckin' foray from E'72 until about 17 mins, when they drop into the DS theme and 1st verse. Ensuing is additional delicate spaciness that transgresses into a frenzied meltdown madness, and eventually settles into Morning Dew. No second verse. 5/25/1972 - The Strand Lyceum, London - 34 mins, out of Wharf Rat. Strong opening with a groove almost from the beginning, no noodling around here in the first 7 minutes. Then turns very spacey until 15 mins when DS theme appears, and heads off into 1st verse. Post-verse finds a Billy, Phil, and Keith duel for several minutes. At 21 mins, Phil institutes a mellow Feeling Groovy jam, soon joined by the rest of the band until ~25 mins. Final minutes are dominated by space and then a monumental meltdown before heading off into Sugar Mag. No second verse. 4/14 and 5/4 do it for me... Hope all are Well in Deadland. Sixtus

80sfan

I like this list. Adding 10/31/71 and 2/18/71 (including the Wharf Rat and Beautiful Jam sandwich because you can't yank them out). That's one late era DS list, Seth. I question whether I have even listened to them all??? Sounds like a project.

~ 2.26.73 ~ Dark Star

One of my faves 2.13.70 1972 has a handful that are really cool

DS, Bonus, 83

Daawwwwkkkk Staaar Jeeeerrrryy! So many DS’s, so little time, sigh...2/27/Live Dead has to rank on anyone’s list, no? Gotta love 4/8, hell all E72, especially that 5/11/72, and yaaasss, 8/27/72 even with pole guy! Personally I love the big spacey ones the best, but I never met one I didn’t love!! All y’all have turned me on to some nice, relatively, shorter ones also, like when you don’t have all day but you need a taste o the Star... Really like 10/19/73, hell that whole show just keeps getting better and better for me. SETH, great list. Made me realize I’ve seen besides 1/20/79; - 10/9/89 - 9/6/91 - 3/20/92 and - 6/22/92. Hey I know, not 72-74 quality, but better than a sharp stick in the eye, or a pesky troll up our arse ; ) KAYAK GUY, SIMONROB etc, thanks for the great Bonus list. Like others here I’m awaiting a Real Gone order, including V4 #3 and hoping it would have that 12/6/73... I believe I read here awhile back that these rereleased versions don’t have bonus discs, so won't hold my breath. Really jonesing for that 12/6/73 since those last ten shows of 73 are a bit grail like for me....when are we going to get the other FLA show/DS? JIM; 83. I don’t know, I’ve always really dug that 10/14/83 show, not so much the release. I know I’m extremely biased by being at the show etc. I used to think it was one of my top shows, or at least experiences at a show, (lights, sound, band, us, everyone seemed to be “on” that night) I like the Dicks well enough, but it, like 3/27/88 DL just doesn’t really transpose or come through to me. If I hadn’t been at the shows I wouldn’t know the difference. They just don’t seem to really represent to me anyway, how good these shows were.... I wonder if any one else has experienced this with any releases they attended?

Live shows v Live recordings-Oroborous

I've noticed considerable differences between shows I've attended, and the live recordings of them I've heard after the event. Not so much for the Dead, but for many bands. It might be fair to say that a live recording bears the same relationship to the show being recorded, as a photograph does to the object or person being photographed. Thinking about the few Dead shows I have seen and then heard - the recording of the one at Halloween in 1990 at Wembley actually sounded like a better show to me on tape than it did when I was there. When I was there, my mental state and position in the hall-to the far right looking down-on Bruce's side of the stage-interfered with my perception of what was going on. Bruce's piano sounded about 4 times as loud as everything else to me-but on the tape I later heard it seemed mixed in more appropriately.

Dark Stars-Sixtus-Seth

That's a great post-thanks. Also a helpful list of post 1989 Stars, form Seth.

Daverock

I’ve had that to, show memory is meh, than you hear a decent recording and your like wow.It’s funny how the experiential factors bias us so much, even so many years later..... The piano volume you mentioned was probably due to the hard stereo panning Healy used. I remember Bear always bitching about that and other unwanted side effects of going stereo versus mono point like the wall. But that’s a whole nother looong item that one can look up if interested....

Re: 10/14/83 - Oroborous

I like your spirit.. nothing wrong with standing up for what you like.. and you certainly have a valid reason. It could simply be that of the three, Boise was the last one I listened to. On a weird tangent.. not sure if there are any fans of the Freak Brothers out there.. but I just let my cat in from the sweltering heat wave we seem to be in the middle of. One of the revolving Freak Brothers jokes was if you mistreated Fat Freddie's Cat, he would poop in your shoes when you weren't looking. My cat, Bagheera, just tossed her cookies in my birks when I wasn't looking. I'm sure I did something to deserve this, perhaps dissing one show in favor of another? Karma. Certainly made me chuckle.

Acid Jazz Dark Star

Speaking of, check this version out by RW2C- vintage 99: https://www.jambase.com/article/robert-walters-20th-congress-covers-gra… Lovin’ it! Robert Walter: “This is an old recording from 1999 during pre-production for my album Money Shot. We used to play “Dark Star” at the early 20th Congress gigs. It was a good vehicle for long improvisations and actually reminded me of a lot of the jazz and funk records I was listening to. Cheme’s electric sax adds some Eddie Harris influence to it. I didn’t really know too much the Grateful Dead at the time, despite my parents putting them on quite a bit. Playing this song was a gateway for me to get into their vast and unique catalog. I included this to add a little perspective to what I’m doing now.”

MDJim

If your cat is seeking revenge, check your headphones before putting them on!

Live v recording-Jerry

I have just remembered a sequence in the Dead Movie where Jerry describes a similar feeling about live performance to the one I was trying to decsribe. I think he was talking about the 2/14/68 show, and he describes feeling really disappointed with the performance, and angry with Phil-even throwing him downstairs after the show-only to hear a tape of the show later, and recognise that it was "crackling with energy"-if memory serves me well.

Grading Dark Stars is an exhausting endeavor....

....boot camp for Deadheads. Ten-hut!!

Daverock & Fat Freddie!

Daverock, perfect example! Jim, remeber what fat Freddie says, “getting drunk, theeen getting high is like pissing in the wind” Aaah, good ole Gilbert Shelton. Shakedown Street cover artist! Actually have some T-shirt’s by him that my buddy from Austin gave me. Something like “has everyone gone crazy except you and me” Have one copy of T,F.F.B. comix stashed away somewhere? Actually picked it up in a head shop in Virginia Beach during the Hampton run one year. You know, typical dumb ass northerner “it’ll be warm at the beach, it’s march!” Like it’s Fla or something lol idiots! Yeah the last story ended with some wild bonfire debauchery with everyone dancing in a circle round the fire signing “let’s all get drunk and naked, let’s all get drunk and naked, let’s all get drunk and nakeeeeed..... and lie in a great big pile”...which is reasonable ; )

Record Store Day 2012-Dark Star

A bit belatedly, I've noticed that the Dark Star from 4/5/72 from Paris is available on vinyl. Its still possible, just about, to get a copy, so I am hovering. I wondered, if anyone has it, if it has much better-or different-sound to the one on the cd.

Dark Star

Earlier I listed my top 5 dark stars, none of which appear past 1972 (though as mentioned, there are plenty of great ones in 73 and 74). I loved the late era list as well. However, I think the last "great" dark star came on 10/18/74. While there were really cool or fun or historically significant dark stars post hiatus (NYE 78, 84 encore, 89 breakout, and first one with Branford Marsalis), none of them really blow me away the way the pre-hiatus one do. As much as I love 80s-90s dead, those dark stars were always more cool than great if that makes sense. If anyone can recommend a version that might change my mind I'm all ears! Forgot to mention...loved that Europe 72 Dark Star breakdown! I'd love to see one for The Other One as well. As much as I love the dark stars from that tour, some of the versions of TOO are absolute all-timers...

10/18/73

Yes, again.. ditto. How could we forget that one. I will toss in 11/8/69 for good measure, but it's the UJB, Eleven, Caution that sizzle in the Dark Star dominated suite (they come in and out of three times that night). We could probably go on with this well into the fall. There are still quite a few out there I have not even listened to yet.. Didn't somebody out there say So Many Dark Stars, So Little Time? So true. Dark Star - Played 231 times. The Other One - Played 587 times.

Daaaaaaaaaaaark Star

if you have a 12 hour fight or insomnia this is a handy composite of 1972 Dark Stars. sort of like Greyfolded without the folds. https://archive.org/details/DarkStar_1972 Version 2: This is V2 of the original 10 hour 1972 Dark Star mix. It has the following benefits over the V1 mix: better mixing - I reviewed every cross fade and adjusted many correct order - a listener pointed out that the V1 had some out of order added missing Dark Stars - added 4 of the 5, one was very poor in quality and not included 10/23/1972. includes Verse 2 vocals 1hr 42min longer! Playlist: 3/23/1972 New York [includes Verse 1] 4/8/1972 London 4/14/1972 Copenhagen 4/17/1972 Copenhagen 4/24/1972 Dusseldorf 4/29/1972 Hamburg 5/4/1972 Paris 5/7/1972 Wigan 5/11/1972 Rotterdam 5/18/1972 Munich 5/23/1972 - London 5/25/1972 - London 7/18/1972 Jersey City 7/26/1972 Portland 8/21/1972 Berkeley 8/24/1972 Berkeley 8/27/1972 Veneta 9/10/1972 Hollywood 9/16/1972 - Boston 9/21/1972 Philadelphia 9/24/1972 - Waterbury 9/27/1972 Jersey City 10/18/1972 St. Louis not included 10/23/1972 10/26/1972 Cincinnati 10/28/1972 Cleveland 11/13/1972 Kansas City 11/19/1972 Houston 11/26/1972 San Antonio 12/11/1972 San Francisco 12/15/1972 Long Beach 7/26/1972 Portland [includes Verse 2]

Speaking of a show you were at vs a recording...

I'm ashamed to admit that I walked out of the 2-26-77 Swing Auditorium show in San Bernardino thinking "meh" as I drove back to LA...WTF was wrong with me...listening to improved boards through the years I feel like such a schmuck...I'd like to try and blame extenuating circumstances/distractions but it boils down to me being in a wrong state of mind that night I guess...Jerry should of have tossed me down some stairs....

Almost twelve hours of Dark Star....

.... sounds about right.

Dark Star vote... spoiler alert: there's no surprise

September 21, 1972. The Spectrum in Philly. It can be found on Dick's Picks 36. I consider it my fine China. I break it out ever so once in a while...whew! Man, does it just take me away. It has it all. Jazz, acid, blues. The first notes to me I'm being sucked though a terrific vacuum off to a place where everything is going to be strangely all right. And everything is all right. But there's a solid journey in which to partake where drabs of doubt break through. Flowing over sonic waves of fluid emotions permeating from some heavens I am gently guided back down safely one note at a time. Thanks to all have been posting their faves! Cheers all!

Dork Star

I do have a favourite... but the date/venue escape me presently. It might take a minute or a month to sift through the archives, but I know how it goes and I can cue up parts of it in my head, like a jukebox. When I'm hiking in the woods, I'll play songs, silently, in my head. But is it silent, or just hearing by bypassing the ears? Many mornings I wake up with a song in my head. It's odd, but I like it. And if I don't - I change the song.

"Tomorrow maybe go beneath the ground"

https://archive.org/details/gd82-04-14.senn-weinberg.cohen.26234.sbeok… Glens Falls, New York ~ 4.14.82 ~ Dane County Coliseum ~ 10.25.73 ~ China -> Rider Me and My Uncle Dark Star -> Eyes of the World -> Stella Blue

8/30/80

The only CR&S->LLR I know. https://archive.org/details/gd1980-08-30.sbd.miller.110152.flac16 Set 1 Feel Like A Stranger, Peggy-O, Cassidy, Friend Of The Devil, Minglewood Blues, Cold Rain & Snow-> Looks Like Rain, Easy To Love You, Althea, Jack Straw Set 2 Scarlet Begonias-> Fire On The Mountain, CC Rider-> Ramble On Rose, Estimated Prophet-> Eyes Of The World-> Drums-> Not Fade Away-> Black Peter-> Sugar Magnolia, E: One More Saturday Night

Dark Star guide

Hi All! I came across this just the other day: http://deadessays.blogspot.com/2017/06/dark-star-catalog-guest-post.html A while back I had a plan to try to time all of the Dark Stars. It was ambitious at best and not likely since I was going to do it on a stay-cation which ended up being cut short. I should have known that someone would have beaten me to the punch. So this link gives one of the best if only comprehensive Dark Star resources I have ever come across. It doesn’t give grades which I will agree with what some have said -that is an impossible task. Anyway this link can be used as a guide if anyone gets wild and decides to go down this path and try put a grade and/or rank on all of them.

....in ice petal flowers revolving....

....that Dark Star guide looks awesome! Thanks Gratefulhan!This Dark Star is sounding pretty good....49 years ago today https://archive.org/details/gd1969-08-30.122267.upg.sbd.tobin.flac16

Dark Star guide-Gratefulhan

Thanks for posting that link. Fascinating looking at how often it was played, and how its length expanded and contracted. I couldn't pick a favourite version, but the ones I have enjoyed most this year have been the ones played in 1972. The peak years are definitely 1968-1974 for Dark Star, for me. As stated by 80sfan-the versions of "The Other One" were also phenomenal throughout 1972, too. Incredible that they played either one or the other, to such great effect, at almost all their shows throughout the year.

re: Wow Gratefulhan

Ditto on that awesome Dark Star list. That same blog is a 'Go-To' for all things GD-related....so wealthy in knowledge. Looking at the list, one thing caught my eye, early in the listing: it was somewhere between March and June of '68 that Dark Star really started to stretch out - during this brief time, it pretty much doubled in length; starting from roughly the 5-7 minute range (avg) to then up to 15 minutes and well over 10 mins subsequently. A trigger musta popped in there with an epiphany to say, hey, let's jam on this one how 'bout? The overall list is impressive. Those two mentions of '79 Dark Stars also pique my interest - I should listen even if just an aud source methinks. Happy Holiday weekend to USA folks - summer literally has gone by in a snap. Some major things changed on my end over these few short months - for the better - but still, wow it's been quick. Be well All. Sixtus

Dark Star List

Cool indeed. Thanks gratefulhan

DS & January 1970

Boise pulled me on quite the enjoyable 80's tangent. I'd probably still be on it except a few of my devices are more geared to 60's and 70's.. this morning the temperature finally broke and I took advantage by taking a long bike ride. My companion was Dave's Picks 19, 1/23/1970. I had forgotten what a fiery China Rider starts that show.. and we have a cryptical, TOO, Dark Star to start what I think is the second set. It had been a while since I listened to that one. Great sound.. maybe not the best 1970 show, but some of the previously released shows that year are giants among the giants. What a nice show. I can't wait to get to disc 3, overflow songs from the next night. 1970 Cumberland Blues anyone? With all these great shows I can't help but think of the a quote from the movie History of the World Part I, "It's good to be the king."

Reminder....

....I cannot stress enough that you fine people check out that Dark Star from The Family Dog i posted lower down yesterday. Listened to it twice last night and blew my mind each time. Simply dripping in acid. Incredible....

The Wheel Turns

Looking forward to tipping libations in the rust of summer's evening within the fortnite, my friend. Summer Time, come and go, my oh my! Taking suggestions for a week of luxuriously unrushed stay-cation birthday PTO. Got a bottle of magic-jack and two bucks in my pocket. I'm ready!

Speaking of the 80s...

Took DaP 8 out for a spin this afternoon. I forgot how well-played that show was - 3 hours of blissfully loud fun on a beautiful Friday here in the Bay Area. This pick certainly bolsters the case for more matrix releases. Mai Tai time!!

Hear, Hear for Matrixes....

....if that Dave's was a test, I think it passed with flying colors. I'm all in.

Vguy72's reminder - 8/30/69

Yes Vguy72 this is an incredible beautiful performance of Dark Star, and, moreover, the power of the original concept St Stephen - William Tell - The 11. St Stephen particularly great with wailing feedback during the instrumental break. It all comes together during the 11 intro jam, incredible synergy. Potent! Also great by the way, Dave's 10 bonus disc LA 12/11/69

dave's 8 and 9-1-69

Bolo is right, that pick is a real good one, but....what about the day before? What about Gainesville? Also, if you liked 8-30-69's dark star, check out 9-1-69's.. in Louisiana of all places, great stuff.

Like 8.30.69's Dark Star?....

....I friggin LOVE it. Just listened to it again. Is that a Beautiful Jam they launch into? I believe it is. Impeccable version. These guys never fail to cause my jaw to hit the floor.edit. Checking out the 9.1.69 show now. But what's even more amazing than these Dark Stars, is that they played in SF, then NO two days later. True touring troubadours....

Dark Star Guide

HI All! I am glad you liked that link to the Dark Star guide. Sixtus is right that the whole blog (called Grateful Dead Guide) is excellent. The creator of that blog has put in some serious time to gather facts about so many things. There are lengthy posts about anything and everything- missing tapes, song debuts, show reviews, etc... Whoever the author is of that blog, I am place them right there up in terms of Grateful Dead Jedi Mastery with the likes Dick, Dave, Mr. Miller, and Voodonola among many others. Wouldn’t it be great to find out that the author of that blog is regular here? I have that tendency like many of you to learn, research, and yes organize things about the Dead. So that blog and all of the content appeals to me for many reasons. I have just begun a little project that I am hoping that if good enough I can submit to that blog as a guest poster. We’ll see if I ever get around to finishing it though. Just in case anyone needs this a link to the blog here it is: http://deadessays.blogspot.com/?m=0

Analyzing, breaking down and formulating....

....the Dead would be a college course I would take. I would probably end up with a solid B however, because they are a tough nut to crack.I'm apparently stuck in 1969. TC makes them a totally different band. See how it is? One could break down months, let alone years. Always evolving and morphing.

Dave's 19

I love this 1970 release too. Keithfan put together a new track order when it first came out and made it available to people who already bought it. Goes like this: Cold Rain & Snow Me & My Uncle I'm a King Be Mason's Children Cumberland Blues China Cat Sunflower I Know You Rider Black Peter Hard to Handle Mama Tried Dire Wolf Good Lovin' (mixed bothers versions) The Other One Dark Star St. Stephen Lovelight Feedback And We Bid You Goodnight Dancing in the Streets I like it because it puts all the short rockers together in the "first set" area. Also gets rid of yellow dog and the maddeningly cut short Casey Jones. Highly recommend.

.

LoveJerry or Keithfan

I remember that reordering job KF did. The best part is it cut out the teaser licks after each song that was out of order, so it flowed so smooth. LJ, you still have a copy? My phone with it died. I bought the orig.

Gainesville, FL November 29, 1980

"This is all that is currently available from the soundboard" CM Grateful Dead - November 29, 1980 Alligator Alley Gym - Gainesville, FL Recording Info: SBD > Multi-Gen Cassette (Maxell XLII 90) Transfer Info: Cassette (Nakamichi CR-7A) > Tascam DA-3000 (DSF 1-bit/5.8 MHz) > KORG AudioGate 4 > Adobe Audition CC 2015 > Samplitude Pro X3 Suite > FLAC/24 (1 DVD FLAC) All Transfers and Mastering By Charlie Miller September 12, 2017 Patch Info: (FOB) Beyer M160 > Cassette Master > FLAC (shnid=132457) supplies: Truckin' (4:18 - 6:04) (8:10 - end of track) Drums (0:00 - 0:02) Good Lovin' (0:08 - end of track) Encore Break (complete track) U.S. Blues (complete track) Notes: -- Thanks to Sean Kutzko for the tape -- This is all that is currently available from the soundboard -- Thanks to Jim Wise for the patch source -- Thanks to Joe B. Jones for his input on the pitch correction -- This is 139321 24 bit -> 16 bit Set 2: 01 - Shakedown Street > 02 - Franklin's Tower > 03 - Estimated Prophet > 04 - He's Gone > 05 - Truckin' > 06 - Drums > 07 - Space > 08 - The Other One > 09 - Stella Blue > 10 - Good Lovin' Encore: 11 - Encore Break 12 - Casey Jones Hope there is a complete sbd of this show in the vault. If not this will never be released. Jim Wise has been re-transferring a lot of audience tapes from 80 and 81 in 24bit so I hope there can be more matrix-mixes from this era in the future.

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