• 8,101 replies
    marye
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    Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

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  • Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Sawzaw

    Ah the sounds of my earliest fun dentist. "You dont need no gas!"

    All my stereo stuff is old, always fussy. Running all old Yamaha into JBL (plus svs). Trying to get stuff cleaned and parts replaced. When it is on, it is quite the stereo indeed. I have an old yamaha eq that I hooked up when Dave's first show was released. Goes into Pre amp, then to a yamaha mx-830. The MX-830 is powering 4 jbl g300's and 2 jbl LX 600's. Running 6 speakers means the amp is running at 550 watts at 2 ohms. It cooks. The speakers all have same tweeters and mid ranges. The 300s run 8" woofers and the 600s have 10 inch woofers. It is old but as you say "in budget." Smile.

    edit:
    Then the svs has a 550 watt continous, 850 watt peak sledge. The svs I picked up a few years back for $399. I had to have a sub with an internal crossover. So out of preamp to svs (rca cables), then back into the preamp, then to amp. Having old yamaha means older connection points. Modern amps control the crossover themself and pump sub out already crossed over. I happen to run my internal sub amp at a cutoff of 82 hz. George Lucas uses 80 hz crossover in his THX sound systems. So I am slightly above that. I did some sampling of the room using the preamp features.

    G

  • JimInMD
    Joined:
    Do you have any '74 Dijon?

    Neanderthal's use chain saws.. a sophisticated audiophile attacks their living rooms delicately with a sawzaw.

    I'm totally jealous.. I am blasting with my 20 year old Denon, similar age speakers with no intents on upgrading anytime soon. Budgets be budgets..

  • Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Yeah

    Can you imagine writing the real equipment book? With the constant upgrading of the system, that book would be multiple enormous volumes. Hope the Meyers have logged a lot of their research.

    No 18's here. Of course not needed.

    Back last year, Oro, you asked if I was running multiple subs. I am not. I have a 12" SVS Systems sub with built in Sledge D amp. It is like the rabbit, it is a thumper. Goes down to 13 or 15hz, so below the 20hz of human hearing. That is, if all memories about frequency response are still good. Starting to get the old enough to question my own thoughts at times.

    I am still hoping for the day when we can listen to WoS through a system that takes us to the "Fare the Well" P.A.. Would have to be software based, but I look at it like 4K upcoding an HDTV signal.

    Wow, FTW PA is now 7 years ago. Bet the Meyers' have gone way beyond that. I almost applied for a job at Meyer 7 years ago. Was in my career field. POTHead.

    That 2015 system had multiple flying 18's. It also had a load balancing system. This was done by having 2 systems, intake and outake. That is, they had 100 microphones throughout the stadium to push into the analytics software. Of course, the output systems was not connected except thru analytics, to the input system to avoid feedback. Brilliant. The analytic input system could then be used to balance the PA by section of the of the stadium.

    Sorry for interruption but I wanted find the article on pro sound web about 2015 FTW PA.

    I did actually find it, but not by searching pro sound web, but by searching internet at large and it found it on the pro sound web site, even though pro sound web could not find it in its own search.

    Let me know, maybe I can send lynk thru PM here, not sure if they cut that off.

    Any way need to do a little work after lunch. I mean a little work.

    G

  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    Ha

    That’s what chain saws are for!

    Gary, I think besides trying to keep up with Garcia, Phil was using that big system on stage to help fill in those near field areas (up front etc) we were discussing, the areas that didn’t get proper coverage from the PA?
    What some refer to as the Phil Zone, though to me that’s was where both his stage sound and the PA sound merged and acoustically coupled.
    But yeah, My spine tingles and can still feel rather than hear those sub frequencies in my DNA. (By sub I mean below the threshold of hearing, not a subwoofer). Those Meyers 18”s in the PA were ridiculous in the right spot, in the right venue etc.
    Plus, it’s the Grateful Fucking Dead so why not go big!

    PS, that Grateful Dead gear book is great, though a little dialed down.

  • JimInMD
    Joined:
    I want what Phil's having...

    Home version. 18"'s and 4"'s. If I move some things around, they should fit.

  • Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Oro

    thanks for the write-up, input. Need a little time to read again and ponder. Think again we are speaking the same language but as 90% of communication is non verbal, some times the written language let's us down.

    It seems I have the dead's equipment book, need to track that down. Not necessarily for this discussion but just to find it again...

    Should have figured Phil would use Meyer systems. Using 18's onstage, wow!

    Hope all well your way!

    G

  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    Phil’s Rig

    As of late 82 or early 83 Phil was using 4 Meyers cabinets: (4 -18”, 4 -15”), 2 per cabinet powered by custom PIE amps, until they started not using speakers on stage in 92. (Which I didn’t like).

    Not sure I get all what your saying? I agree that Soundboards do not sound natural for many reasons.
    Perhaps your referring to the phenomena of Microphones not having frequency response to accurately record bass waves combing sub sonic frequencies at those kind of SPL levels?
    Mic location can also make a big difference and was partly why Dan started the tapers section. Unless you have the right knowledge and equipment chances are a recording made too close will mot sound good.
    Plus you have the physics: the lower the frequency, the longer the sound wave. If your too close you’ll not hear the fully formed bass note etc.
    In fact if your too close much of the PA sound will blow right by you. You’ll also not properly experience stereo imaging. That’s why usually, the sound board or just before it was THE place to be. It was a trade off going up front: yeah you were up close and could see and hear their stage sound, but the PA mix was so above and beyond you that you missed a lot of info. Eventually they added little Meyers boxes, usually sitting on the front of the stage to add some vocals etc for those up close.
    Nothing comes for free! Personally, like Bear, I didn’t like the stereo set up because of this. Unless you were in the right spot, you missed a lot of info, especially if you were sitting on the side!
    This was the main reason Reserved seating sucked: nobody could sit where they wanted so if you were a sound nut like us, you often had to endure less than perfect sound/mixes.

  • Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Fall Out from the Phil Zone

    I listened to 1988-10-15. Once Friday, Second Saturday. Two different sources although both said the Ultramatrix board, the first was much muddier than the second. Best highlight was the deep garbled voices toward the end of drums. Really bizarre, and reminds me of garbled voices during latter Star Wars during broken transmissions, and reminds me of the fellas ties to Lucas, the lightgiver.

    I was very disappointed in both versions as the show is missing a whole lot of data/music. What I mean by this is, I am wondering if there is fallout from the phil zone? I am positing that as the Phil Zone expanded, Healy lost control of the overall sound. If memory serves at some point it seems I remember maybe Phil using 18" woofers onstage. For sure he was using 15's (plus 12's and 10's). Now I loved my bit of time I spent in the Phil zone, but generally when I got up close, it was Jerry side. As Phil blasts his horn, this means Healy had to bring Phil down in the overall P.A. mix. In my humble opinion, I believe this led to the bad tape sound, lots of data/music missing. When I focus my ears, I can tell that much of the overall lower sound waves are missing or nonexistent. Even worse, the frequencies that are there are very muddled and indiscernible.

    Now as a way to test my theory, I listened to 1988-03-27, Hampton. Another group of shows I saw in 1988. I did see 8 Dead shows there and fully know the quality of the sound that can be obtained within the mothership. (Also saw the shows that make up "Hampton Comes Alive..") When I listened to March 27, the sound is very good. However, although not as bad a St.Pete, there is again a large amount of data/music missing as well. The imaging is excellent but that is because the imaging comes from the higher frequencies. Bass frequencies are much more omni- directional, whereas high frequencies are unidirectional. (Want to press on these concepts furthur, later on. I want to go back to some discussions back in October regarding HDCD.) If my hypothesis is correct, then the tape anomalies concerning extremely muddled low frequencies will test out thru other 1988 shows. Had not heard or noticed this until this past weekend. So for St. Pete, it not only causes Phil to be muddled (deep booming bass with no clarity to individual notes played), it also means some muddleness from other players/instruments. I believe this may be the reason why 1988 recordings may all need matrix recording.

    Just one man's opinion, would like to know what others thought.

    Both Hampton and St. Pete were excellent shows when you factor other aspects than just the quality of the reproduced sound on tape. One reason I love the later shows is because the P.A. quality produces a much more full bodied, across frequencies, sound than do earlier performances. Early performances are fire from perfomance, latter shows have more depth and clarity in the frequency spectrum, hence DaP#40.

    Ok enough for now.

    G

  • bob t
    Joined:
    Sandstone Amphitheatre 7/4/90

    I was there.. It was so hot at the start of the show... Close to 100... Really enjoyed the long scarlet>fire popping up in the 4th slot.... Drove straight to Louisville after the show... why oh why.

  • Gary Farseer
    Joined:
    Congrats Jim!!!

    Knew we were getting close. Still love the Raven show. I am a huge '82 fan.

    This was the same time as my first drop, April 1982, what a life changing event, as I know 4/19 was for you.

    First 2 drops were Orange Sunshine and Purple Haze. Not too bad for first 2. Man, there is a lot to write about with those 2.

    Thanks Jim for being such a solid rock of posting here, and again, Congrats.

    G

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Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.
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In reply to by Oroborous

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Come on Oroborous, don't delete your post. I did see it. And yes, this is not this day in Grateful Dead History. I never look at that site, so I don't follow what they post each day. Some shows are worth a listen, but variety is welcome for sure.

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Ice & Snow kicked me off the internet for a day.
It was tough, let me tell ya.
Not sure how we grew up without this stuff ;)

Or, good thing we didn't have this when I was a kid or I never would've gone outside.

While I was in the wilderness without the internet, there was another Nudie suit sighting.
3/18/73 NRPS show
I'm listening to it now, the NRPS were wearing their Nudie Suits, and Keith, Donna, Bobby & Jerry all join the boys on the stage. They're talking to somebody from the bands and he says "we couldn't get Garcia to wear his though". So not sure if Keith Donna & Bobby have theirs on or not, they'd wear them the next night for the final time.

Pretty neat.

Digging the show, there's a nice FM copy on Archive here if you've not heard it -
https://archive.org/details/nrps1973-03-18.fm.weiner.21538.sbeok.shnf

There's a Willie and the Hand Jive that Garcia plays on.
(Since we've been discussing '86 and the Hand Jive has popped up, figure that was relevant)

The other thing I was learning yesterday without the internet was about the Carousel shows March 29-31, 1968.
Smoking stuff!!
Based on what I'm reading and hearing, I think 3/31/68 is the night Jerry pushed Phil.
You Play Goddammit!
If you want to flip your lid, listen to the Caution from 3/31... GODDAMN!
Some of that was definitely used on Anthem, and it's totally off the rails.
Wonder what the story is on these Reels in the Vault?

Well, there you go.
Who's got a pick?

EDIT - Oh yeah, I started to read up on Nanao but then lost the wi-fi, far out. Strikes me as a peaceful warrior.
Speaking of, you all ever read Peaceful Warrior? I read it when I was a kid, I think Dan Millman was the trapeze artist at the Trips Festival, trippy huh?!?!

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In reply to by The Good Ole G…

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...yeah I know, deep subject (cue rim shot!) hey-ooo.
I see there are dates and ideas, but do we have a pick?

If not I’d like to suggest 2 ideas.
1) 5/3/86 from boxilla. Still haven’t got to this one and all this 86 talk makes me want to try some 86. Also. need my device for other stuff...
2) Capitol 71 run: I know Striders been anxiously prepping for the 18th, and yes though I get bored with same old repetitive anniversaries, this is different. This is like the difference between your unpteenth anniversary, (sorry Love!) and your 50th wedding Anniversary! So since we’ve been floundering a bit lately, how bout we start on the 18th and go the whole Capitol Run. If nothing else it’s like wearing a uniform to work; ya don’t have to think about what to ware in the morning! ; )
Or not, just a thought.

GOGD: have a research project if your interested. I can’t seem to find which Spectrum show had Wrestling before the Dead? I’m sure it was at the Spectrum, but I’m not sure if it was 86 or 87? I tried to cross reference with WWF 86 schedule but no luck, then I ran outta time...maybe their was a different “league” or something? I looked at comments on the archive too, but nobody mentions it? I’m not sure I’ll have that kinda time, but knowing you like to ferret these oddities out, thought you might enjoy it? I know we enjoy your adventures in the pursuit of all things Dead!

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In reply to by Oroborous

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I'll listen to 5/3/86 and I'll listen to the whole Capitol 71 Run.

It's on.

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In reply to by The Good Ole G…

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....I'm listening to 12.15.86. Been diving down that '86 rabbit hole recently.

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In reply to by Vguy72

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Wonder how often you hear Heads gettin' stoked on '86?

Set 1 from 5/3 is fun.
Set 2 is beginning.

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In reply to by The Good Ole G…

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Enough time has passed

3 31 86 should have been on my list earlier

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In reply to by proudfoot

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Not too shabby!
Fun little first, of course 86 short.., good opener for gray cold morning,.second set is pretty good, might go again just cause...Played so loud JGs voice coils seized up, too funny! So far I don’t think I’ve heard a bad show from Boxilla, sure maybe not all killer, but not a bad one so far...
Yeah, diggin the 86, anyone know of any more goodins send em along so I can write em down,
Thanks! I’d say grab another tomorrow before we go down the Capitol hole, but that’s up to y’all, don’t wanna be greedy! ; )

EDIT: add 3/31and 12/15 to list ✔️

I have fond memories of that song deep into the pre-drums set two dogma.. typically filling the Ship of Fools or Sampson segment just before it gets into deep space. There's a Hampton, a Merriweather and an Augusta that come to mind.

Personal to me, but some really fond memories and I still dig this tune.

(edit, I did not make Augusta, still kicking myself in the ass for that one)

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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Sounds good DV!
Just got a real gone copy...I’ve had a copy copy, but just today got my hard copy...so it’s a sign!

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50th anniversary tomorrow. So let me throw my lucky Stetson hat in the ring. Tomorrow’s pick , 2/18/71. Will work on some kind of reminiscent writing.

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In reply to by Strider 808808

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Loud and proud

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In reply to by proudfoot

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As fate would have it, I listened to that recently.

Excellent choice

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In reply to by Oroborous

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Dave's Picks #23! What a high energy show this is. That He's Gone into The Other One. Wow! At almost 40 minutes, I would have been drained at the end of that version, jazzy and spacey.
Fall 72 and this one delivers the whole show minus the encore I believe.

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In reply to by DeadVikes

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:)))

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In reply to by proudfoot

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Time for you to go back where you belong.

Looking forward to the Multi Track spectacular 2/18/71.

Ready for this too.

I primed my interest with 2/21 last night into shoveling this morning. My second listen since the reissue, and this one popped on many levels - I got much more out of this than the first listen. This will mark my second listen of 2/18 since the reissue. These releases are gems.

Enjoy all.. we heard from Doc regarding this show on the Dave's Picks thread.. bet we hear from Strider on this one.

Cease the day folks.. make the best you can out of 2/18/2021.

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In reply to by JimInMD

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Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy, big 50th today, I know Striders Stoked ; )
I am too, stoked for some multi-track grooviness! and a great way to kick off the run!
Boo ya, a real Bobbie Dazzler eh!

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I wrote a long piece in pencil before sunrise this morning. I’ve decided to post it on the dead.net page , Grateful Dead 2/18/71 as it will last longer than the American Beauty 50th page and maybe even this pick of the day page. Yes , I’m stoked. Where is Doc@11 ?

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In reply to by Strider 808808

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Hola Strider.. looking for your 2/18 recap.. Where did you post it? I looked on the 2/18 page and there is a short paragraph starting with someone attempting to rob you outside the show, "give me your money..." A little scary, but hilarious at the same time.

I enjoy the personal GD stories, especially ones that go this far back.

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In reply to by Strider 808808

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In fact.. looking forward to the write-up so much I had to post it twice.

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In reply to by JimInMD

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Ditto Jim!

I'm looking forward to Strider's 2/18/71 Liner Notes to enjoy with these tunes.
I think he's working on them :)
This Dark Star is good to listen to.

Speaking of Dark Stars, Rob Eaton is having a hard year so far.
Charlie Miller mentioned he's dealing with the Covid now.
Send positive Vibes Rob's way.
Here's some info and hoping to help spread the word of his GoFundMe if it hasn't already made the rounds -
https://www.gratefulweb.com/articles/dark-star-orchestras-rob-eaton-lau…

Everybody that listens to this music has a lot to thank Rob for and there's good people here.
Send out that joy and reflect some back at him.

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In reply to by The Good Ole G…

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....I clicked that link, but didn't see anything about Covid. Cool site though. I you scroll down, there some neat GD stuff for sale (I'm looking at you Dancing Bear wine bottle stopper).

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In reply to by Vguy72

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Yeah, way cool site, I need to spend more time digging through it.

Just heard about the Covid news this AM, so wanted to bump the GoFundMe.

F Covid!

You are correct sir.. seems to only be one audience copy that circulates. And it's not great, just ok.

I miss NRPS, RIP John/Buddy. They were endlessly touring before Buddy Cage got sick and were easy to catch.. one of those bands you see time after time and it never got old. David Nelson is still around, but he doesn't seem to make it too far out of CA and HI, and that is back when we used to have live music... And the last time I saw them he seemed a big fragile. They guy is authentic, a living legend in my humble opinion. I was just listening to one of their last studio albums a couple days ago while cooking some dinner. Where I Come From.. a really nice album.

Had a great time with this show today.. did 2/21 yesterday and when 2.18 ended I went right back into the first six or seven songs of 2.21 again. Loved it..

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In reply to by JimInMD

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Fantastic show. Sound quality is A+. That Dark Star, Wharf Rat, Dark Star, Me and My Uncle are worth the price of admission. And yes, I said Me and My Uncle.
Looking forward to 2/21/71 soon.

So much great music to explore, we are a lucky bunch....... Okay back to try the..

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Listened to 2/18/71 starting at sunset. Then I started 2/19/71 just before midnight (hour) . With first verse of Loser when the clock struck 12 o’clock (High) 2/19/21 finished complete show. Still up before the sun this morning. Listening to 2/19 a second go-round this morning “I know she’s in the world somewhere” . “ I can’t wait that long to walk around the world “. Wow, the original five or as David Gans said ,”the quintessential quintet”. Smokestack Lightning “ is so smooth and driven, bad and beautiful.”

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Well I ordered the Dave's Picks Vol.37 the day it came out !...I HAVE NOT Received it, I contracted Dead.net, Only to get a Auto-Reply indicating they would get back to me with in a few days, Needless to say , It was charged to my Credit Card but I never got my CD, Ive had trouble ordering quite a few times in the Past, And now there is NO WAY to call and speak to a Human Being ! Ive been a Dedicated buyer of almost EVERY Dicks / Dave's picks as well as the Road Trips CDs... I do not order the Yearly Subscription for a few reasons , One of them being the cost, I just cant afford it during these troubled times, I prefer to order CDs when they come out Individually,...Now the CD is SOLD OUT...Why is this happening ?..Is it because of the State I live in ? (New Mexico)...I have no other problems when ordering other Items from other Shippers, I am totally Disgusted with the way things are being done at Dead.net and Ive been thinking maybe its time for me just to move on ....(Please excuse my typing, as my computers keyboard is a bit messed up)...THANK YOU ...TOMAS .

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I realize I bought the killer vinyl versions of From the Vault (1,2,&3) . Virgin vinyl. That’s five Vs.

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In reply to by Tom_Tom

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If you ordered a la carte, give it a few more days.

The days of talking to real people are vanishing. Like, 98% gone. "Go to our website" is the only option given. But remember, "your call is important to us". Lol...

"Artificial Intelligence" and all that shit.

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8 years 11 months

In reply to by Strider 808808

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Gonna listen to some Grateful Dead today.

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In reply to by proudfoot

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I have found a rare dud

9 30 80 through hes gone is "HEY! WHO NEEDS COFFEE?"

Hopefully things will get livelier.

After blissing out to 12 30 79 last evening, this show is quite a contrast.

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In reply to by The Good Ole G…

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...2/19/71 and let me tell ya...I got no chance of losing THIS time!

2/18/71: upon future review, I’m with DOC 11, it’s a good show, but perhaps a tad overhyped...
I used to feel this way in the past, then when I received the 50th multi tracks, I flipped out at how good it sounds, and really dug it, like top shelf where mama hides the cookies, but now I’m a bit more conservative?
Yassss it’s a sexy show with those 5 newbies, and it has that little but First set Dark Star, with a pretty damn good Rat for first time as the meat in the sandwich (damn this 2/19 Cumberlands good for typing!) and I forgot about the Saint Steve’s, but it’s a bit organic overall; their not that tight on some things and the guitars where more outta tune then I recall.
Now before ya wish upon me eternal damnation, I’m just giving it the critical thinking treatment. I still love it, I enjoy it, especially the multi-track goodness, but I already understand why they picked 2/19 over this one for the vault release, and I’m only up to hurts me too...
But now I’m really itching to do this whole run because it really is the coolest way to compare the shows and get the possible underlying adjustments and evolution etc..
Ok, nuff talk,...shut up and turn it up!

Edit: 2/19 Bertha: whoa, easy there Billy! Just a tad different then the previous night lol..

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In reply to by Vguy72

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Check out hes gone

Sleeeeeeeeeepyyyyyy....

The next track is awake. My coffee idea worked!

At least for now...time will tell

Coffee courtesy of DarkStarbucks

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In reply to by Oroborous

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Orobouros - yes 2/19 sounds of a higher order to me than 2/18. More people on stage for the 18th, and neither adding a great deal, it has to be said. Maybe the others felt the same way as Ned and Mickey only played that first night. Once they were down to the original 5 the sound of 1971 crystallized.

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In reply to by daverock

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First set is a melty dream
Second set has the chandelier thing
All those new tunes throughout
And now Saint Stephen without that horrific splice

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In reply to by proudfoot

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Wow..yeah, imho they sound way more together. The previous nights newbies are improved, listen to Phil on Playing both nights, back to back, and compare; there’s more jams; the bacon is greasier, sheeeooot, the Smokestack is worth the price of admission in itself!
That Smokestack was so good I had to listen a second time!
Now, I may know relatively little of 71 specifics, but to me, that Smokestack is THE sound of the Pre KG GD! If someone asked me to play 1 thing as an example of that time I’d have no problem wiping this out! Bobble Dazzler indeed.

The Cryptical suite was, well, pretty sweet ; ) listened to that again too! Also repeats of 1st Bird Song and Deal. Almost hard to believe these are first timers. Easy Wind...fo-git-bout-it! Pass me the napkins! Nice Dark Hollow to provide some variety, and hey, it’s got a Cumberland!
Yeah, 2/18 is a fine show, but this bad boy hangs where mama hides the cookies!
Looking forward to tomorrow 2/20/71 as I’ve not heard that one before...