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    "When it came to 1973 Dead, I was always drawn to the big second-set jams, 'Dark Star' or 'The Other One,' and all of the places those songs could go that year. One week during my initial stint with the Dead, Dick was spending a lot of time listening to 9/8/73, and he could not stop raving about it. He was very intent on pointing out that despite the absence of the 'Big Two' from 1973, every song, every solo, every moment was out-of-this-world excellent. He played me the first set, giving a play-by-play of each song and what made it special. In those listening sessions, Dick taught me a lot about how to listen critically and objectively. Of course, the subjective self always creeps in, those moments when you whoop and holler at how good a performance is, but that objective listening is critical. After many days of listening, Dick moved to other eras, as was his wont, since he carried the responsibility of selecting the best Dead shows from all eras to represent the Dead’s recorded legacy. But he made it clear and inarguable that he felt 9/8/73 was one of the best-played shows from one of the Dead’s best years." - David Lemieux

    Despite the gloriously blustering artwork above, the forecast for DAVE'S PICKS VOLUME 38: NASSAU VETERANS MEMORIAL COLISEUM, UNIONDALE, NY, 9/8/73 is blazing hot! With a double endorsement from archivists Dick Latvala and David Lemieux, you know it's a MUST HAVE. This one's got inspired playing from start to finish, with soon-to-be-minted Wake Of The Flood classics, a first-ever "Weather Report Suite," Keith polishing his chops on "Let Me Sing Your Blues Away," Jerry tapping into era-defining sound with his Wolf guitar, and we'd be remiss if we didn't mention Bob's exquisite playing too.

    Among our 2021 Dave's Picks subscribers? The subscribers-only bonus disc featuring nearly an hour and a half from 9/7/73 is coming your way too. (P.S. there's 35 minutes of 9/7/73 on Dave's Picks Vol. 38, to boot)

    Limited to 25,000 numbered copies, DAVE'S PICKS VOLUME 38: NASSAU VETERANS MEMORIAL COLISEUM, UNIONDALE, NY, 9/8/73 was recorded by Kidd Candelaro and has been mastered to HDCD specs by Jeffrey Norman.

    Didn't subscribe? You'll want to jump on this one now as it is guaranteed to sell out.

     *2 per order. Very limited quantity available.

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  • #1351
    Angry Jack Straw
    Joined:
    Speakers

    Get a pair of the Dominator MX-10s. That will solve the problem.

  • #1352
    DeadVikes
    Joined:
    Carlo

    Carlo,

    Ha!

    Man, we need a box announcement. How about tomorrow or today depending on your time zone. Let's get it out Thursday, May 20.

    And stop yelling out songs we already played tonight.

  • #1353
    carlo13
    Joined:
    Tea

    I remember once at a giant's stadium show, I meet this chick who offered me some mushroom tea and being new to this way of consuming shrooms, I sat in my car staring up at the ceiling and realizing I swigged too much. I then started to hear the show beginning but I waited it out till I could contain myself. I finally got out of the car feeling enough time had passed and realized that the music was only a boom box playing a dead tape next to my car. I felt like a total doorknob and never mentioned it to anyone till now.

  • #1354
    JimInMD
    Joined:
    Re: Oro

    It sounds to me like your bass cabinets are not tall enough. A standing bass wave is 17 meters in height.. you need bigger speakers, stacks of them, preferably able to play in quadraphonic.. one 17 meter stack for each string of the bass guitar.

    That is all. See my previous post on what measures to take to make this problem go away. Don't forget to destroy the credit card.

  • #1355
    estimating prof
    Default Avatar
    Joined:
    It's the tapes man...

    Great discussion going here. I can't resist getting drawn in with my own 2 cents.

    Caveat emptor - I am not an audio engineer or expert in such areas. I do listen to a lot of music and grateful dead shows.

    My two cents is the audio "distortions" that we have commented on here are in the source recordings of Sept 8 1973.

    Why do I think this?

    - Dick talked about releasing this show in the 90s and Dave says it's one of his favorite 73 shows, and it was just now released 20 some years later. If you've followed Dave for any length of time, you know that he doesn't release shows with lesser audio quality unless he really has to. He's also too good of a salesman to come out and say "we didn't release this until now because the tape has some issues. Jeffrey worked on it again and says it's as good as it's gonna get, so we're releasing it because it's A Tremendous Show"...Right?

    - Seems to me on any given night a recording of a grateful dead concert might not be perfect because those involved in making it were distracted - for any number of reasons.
    In the grand scheme of things, it's seems to me much less likely that we would end up with as many really good recordings as we have. They stopped caring about recordings for a lot of the 80s and a lot of those tapes don't have good audio - compared to a Betty board.

    - My experience with this release is that the recording of 9/8 sounds significantly different than 9/7.
    9/8 was indeed jarring when I first put it on.

    All that said, it really is a fantastic and unique show. I've been loving it. I listened to discs 2 and 3 at proper volume with some beverages last weekend and it knocked my socks off again.

    Just can't resist a good mystery.

  • #1356
    Sixtus_
    Joined:
    ORO

    I bow to my new sound technician overlord.
    What a fantastic and forensic analysis.
    Bravo.

    Sixtus

  • #1357
    icecrmcnkd
    Joined:
    Nice work detective Oro

    Caveat emptor indeed needed

  • #1358
    Oroborous
    Joined:
    Sorry/thanks..

    I’ll go back to lurking now ; )
    GO AVs!

  • #1359
    Oroborous
    Joined:
    Caveat Emptor Indeed!

    DaP 38
    No doubt Mike, but I think some of us were concerned it was a production issue versus usual GOGD zits and all..
    But!,

    After furthur review, I think this is just a perfect storm of normal, smaller issues that combined can be very noticeable and thus annoying.
    I think perhaps this was a case of a great show, but not the best source? Perhaps the ravages of time were more than they considered, but bye the ticket...once committed, they had to see it through?

    Examples you say? Since I spent all day...
    $ = quick and dirty references if you don’t want the full report lol ; )
    BERTHA starts with usual opening idiosyncrasies that are not part of our focus except in how these “usual” suspects interact and combine with our target issues. Listen though to the snare, and eventually the Hi Hat (that shows up more later). Part of the problem is the snare wires resonating and bleeding through other mics. Then you throw in Bob who’s really loud. It seems his speakers must be set up in front of Billy somewhat as Bobs guitar seems to exasperate the snare problem...
    You can really hear this in the quiet just after the song when Bobs banging some chords, listen to the snare wire rattle etc! It gets better but I think it’s a reoccurring ingredient of this aural stew. Bobs level and distortion (both intended and otherwise) are another stew ingredient.
    Listen to both guitars and keys during the instrumental section. Think this is more normal type distortion but again, adds sometimes to the stew...

    ME & MY UNCLE: more of the same early in especially...I found it useful to use my balance control throughout and it’s often the right channel where the problems mostly live.
    By SUGAREE it sounds like maybe some kind of processing added for the snare issue? Early on not too bad, occasionally usual type moments of old R& R tape and/or guitar distortion, but around 6:18 you can hear some noise on the snare roll etc, by 6:23 through 6:33 you can get a good taste of the overall phenomena. But generally the song wasn’t bad.
    Status quo fir next couple, LL RAIN I seemed to notice the Hi Hat more prevalent and adding to and getting snare bleed etc. Made me think there’s something up with one of the Drum overhead mics? If so, bleed from everything! would exasperate an issue there? Perhaps another stew ingredient...Bob has some noticeable distortion, perhaps “normal” around 3:45 or so and 4:40+. It overall kind of kicks in on the end chorus’, but not too bad overall.
    JACK STRAW not so bad, a little somethin round 3:40 with snare/hat/cymbals?
    Also, I think this show suffers overall from the goofy custom condenser vocal mics that add to our stew. Listen to the end of Row J between the 8:30 and 9:00 mark...
    Let It Grow is overall not too bad. Get usual Phil spikes occasionally on peaks, and my notes suggest that I’m convinced much of the “problem” here and throughout is Bobs too loud? Not sure if too loud is correct, perhaps he’s playing really loud (it was a big hall with loud NY crowd for that period?) and the recordings fine, your just hearing his rig distort? But though I really dig his sound and prevalence in the mix, cause he’s killing it, perhaps he’s occasionally a tad loud relative to other sources? (Good example in upcoming tape splice)
    Oh, and what the hell was that weird “organ” sound starting around 12:55 or so lol, certainly not a B3! Pretty wild whatever it was.
    ROLLL OUT the Barrel sounded pretty good lol.
    EYES you can get a good taste during the instrumental section around 2:30..and a good example of normal piano clipping (sensitive pickups), but then he switches to ? guessing the Rhodes, which occasionally has its own distortion characteristics, but this is more of what I call normal stuff.
    Listen around 9:40+ for what I call FM like static. This is another stew ingredient that is harder to hear, not always there, but there on occasion?
    More of the same minor stuff through to about 3:30 in BIG RIVER, though Bob goes way outta tune at 2:25 in GSET and seems to take a few tunes to fully get back lol.
    $ LET ME SING is perhaps the best overall example of many things going on on this release. This and $ CHINA CAT are the most obvious examples of the idiosyncrasies on this release. Check out LMS at 2:00 mark and at the end etc.
    check out Weirs intro licks to China Cat and some of that drum stuff at 1:30+...eventually it gets better and by RIDER it’s sorta status quo again (meaning instances but nothing huge).
    From there on I mostly stopped with notes and just listened, though $ Trucking, GDTRFB etc are good examples of the “stew” especially the blending of the cymbally snare FM static with Bobs distortion whether intentional or not, it all adds up.
    EDIT: $$$ end of show especially One Mo Sat is really dirty all the way around, and
    TRUCKIN’ TAPE SPLICE? $$ Check out how “it” almost disappears at 4:56, actually something starts to be tweaked a little before that? Bobs not there at all until around 6:00 but he’s back at 6:22. Sounds like a tape splice, perhaps using a cassette, or perhaps some processor kicked in and out, but what’s most interesting is listen to Bob comparatively during these 2 sections, before, during, and after, it’s amazing how much different the 2 sound, especially Bob, and seemingly our phenomena too!
    By George I think we’ve figured most of this out!

    Conclusion: it’s the battered old tape, complicated by a perfect storm of minor, often normal anomalies, and an unusual Weir mix for good or for ill, and when occurring simultaneously, often during song peaks, it can unfortunately be distracting.
    Listening equipment, environment, and personal habits no doubt play a roll in individual experiences. I can see how many folks might not notice much of this.
    But on revealing equipment with certain ears it can be so obvious as to be jarring on first occasion.
    Like many uncertainties, once the knowledge is gained, the dissonance is usually manageable. Getting better with every listen, though at low volume : (
    VERDICT: Caveat Emptor indeed, but with perhaps an extra pinch...

    EDIT: this in no way shape or form describes the musical content, which is superb!

  • #1360
    That Mike
    Joined:
    Point Set Match to Oro

    Oro - That is quite a great dissertation on sound production! You know your stuff!
    I’ve never had the ear of a Brian Wilson/George Martin, and I know Dick’s & Dave’s come with the odd hiccup and blemish, but at the end of the day, it’s The Grateful Dead.

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"When it came to 1973 Dead, I was always drawn to the big second-set jams, 'Dark Star' or 'The Other One,' and all of the places those songs could go that year. One week during my initial stint with the Dead, Dick was spending a lot of time listening to 9/8/73, and he could not stop raving about it. He was very intent on pointing out that despite the absence of the 'Big Two' from 1973, every song, every solo, every moment was out-of-this-world excellent. He played me the first set, giving a play-by-play of each song and what made it special. In those listening sessions, Dick taught me a lot about how to listen critically and objectively. Of course, the subjective self always creeps in, those moments when you whoop and holler at how good a performance is, but that objective listening is critical. After many days of listening, Dick moved to other eras, as was his wont, since he carried the responsibility of selecting the best Dead shows from all eras to represent the Dead’s recorded legacy. But he made it clear and inarguable that he felt 9/8/73 was one of the best-played shows from one of the Dead’s best years." - David Lemieux

Despite the gloriously blustering artwork above, the forecast for DAVE'S PICKS VOLUME 38: NASSAU VETERANS MEMORIAL COLISEUM, UNIONDALE, NY, 9/8/73 is blazing hot! With a double endorsement from archivists Dick Latvala and David Lemieux, you know it's a MUST HAVE. This one's got inspired playing from start to finish, with soon-to-be-minted Wake Of The Flood classics, a first-ever "Weather Report Suite," Keith polishing his chops on "Let Me Sing Your Blues Away," Jerry tapping into era-defining sound with his Wolf guitar, and we'd be remiss if we didn't mention Bob's exquisite playing too.

Among our 2021 Dave's Picks subscribers? The subscribers-only bonus disc featuring nearly an hour and a half from 9/7/73 is coming your way too. (P.S. there's 35 minutes of 9/7/73 on Dave's Picks Vol. 38, to boot)

Limited to 25,000 numbered copies, DAVE'S PICKS VOLUME 38: NASSAU VETERANS MEMORIAL COLISEUM, UNIONDALE, NY, 9/8/73 was recorded by Kidd Candelaro and has been mastered to HDCD specs by Jeffrey Norman.

Didn't subscribe? You'll want to jump on this one now as it is guaranteed to sell out.

 *2 per order. Very limited quantity available.

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Submitted by JimInMD on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 04:26

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Something's different with the interface here.

Don't we sometimes see changes right before an announcement?

#BoxMe

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10 years 2 months

Submitted by daverock on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 04:38

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Yes, it all looks a bit odd. After logging on a box appeared asking if I wanted to translate from Russian!-despite the fact that the text still seems to be in English.
Then the format is different, and a message appears telling me I can no longer post new messages on the forum. So it will be interesting to see if this message appears.

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Submitted by JimInMD on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 05:04

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Translate to Russian?!

They are going to have to get this box set announcement out the door today. They're going to need many bitcoins to pay the ransom and get their website back!

Sending a PM is nearly impossible.. Count Vlad has taken over the website.

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9 years

Submitted by icecrmcnkd on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 05:19

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That the website has been redesigned.

A little disorienting at first. Glad I’m sober or I would have been really confused.

Edit:
reCRAPTCHA appears to be the same.

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Submitted by icecrmcnkd on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 05:23

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Come on Dave,
What’s the hold up?

Time to hire a Vault assistant or two.

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16 years 1 month

Submitted by unkle sam on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 05:38

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soon there won't be anything left of the old guard

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17 years 5 months

Submitted by simonrob on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 06:41

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So they can't even get a website update right. If I scroll down to below the 10 displayed posts so I can add a new post, I first encounter another version of the header text followed by a buttload of posts in ascending order starting with the original Vguy post #1. The avatars on these old posts are huge, so I can now fully appreciate the broken fragments of Vguy's glass. After this multitude of old posts I then come to where I can type this in, but the text box is wider than the screen on my mobile. Tragic really.

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Submitted by JimInMD on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 06:46

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I just applied and got an immediate response. It looks like I got the Archivist Intern job at Rhino, my mom is so proud. First things first.. what to do with Dave for the next couple years?... mmmmm

#RFK1973orBust

Edit: You're right SimonRob.. we get a close up view peoples Avatar's when we reply. It looks like someone went to town on VGuy's glass with a WorkingMan's Dead Hatchet!

Speaking of the hatchet.. it's the perfect weapon for an angry mob to wield and take over the vault. Just saying.. how many of us are there with these hatchets that have yet to see our favorite 1973 set of shows released? I'm not sure they thought this one through.

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Submitted by Sixtus_ on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 07:08

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ConeKid...this show and in particular, the transition of which you speak is as good as you have discovered. Sublime, smooth, like buttaaah. It's just sooooo good, makes me wonder why they didn't do that more often. Love this show, it is release worthy IMHO.

Sixtus

P.S. I feel like I am back on dial-up and using AOL with this new website design. It almost seems as if someone did something half way then just said fuck it.

Sorry about your glass VGuy...the picture says it all. Consider it the most challenging 3-D puzzle ever. And it appears my glass is out for delivery. We shall see if we can swap shards.

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Submitted by Oroborous on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 07:14

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Or Stormy Daniels? It’s too early for this I’m all confused?
Well Jim if it’s obviously ok for a mob of traitors to storm the capital with no repercussions, storming the vault seems like a no brainer!

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Submitted by JimInMD on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 07:18

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VGuy.. get some super glue and two part epoxy. You can rebuild it..

better, stonger, faster than it was before.

Oh, right on Oroborous.. alright everyone, get your Workingman's Dead Hatchets.. meet you in Burbank. I'll be the one wearing a tie dye waving my WMD hatchet in the air getting tased by TSA.

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Submitted by Thin on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 09:32

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"Why are things so Strange around here?"

I think it has something to do with Gainsville... obviously.

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Submitted by wadeocu on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 10:01

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So what about Gainesville?

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4 years 3 months

Submitted by proudfoot on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 10:44

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Banesville
Canesville
Danesville
Feignsville
Hanesville
Janesville (Wisconsin)
Kanesville
Lanesville
Mainsville
Painsville
Rainsville
Sanesville
Tamesville
Vainsville
Wanesville
Zanesville

Robotsville (eyeroll)

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Submitted by Thin on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 13:27

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"This Florida city heard a sick Shakedown Street at Alligator Alley in Nov., 1980."

"What is Gainesville, Alex?"

"Gainsville is correct. And that transition to Franklin's is pretty dope too".

"Indeed"

"..transition into Franklin's is pretty dope."

Wow.. you cannot edit posts? Fuck.. what if you make a mistake or curse or something.

Edit: Shit. I cursed.

Edit 2: Apparently you can edit and recursively erase your curse worded posts.

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Submitted by icecrmcnkd on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 15:22

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But the titles look better in bold than plain text.

The most recent site version didn’t show the post that you were responding to, whereas older site versions did show the post.
It’s helpful when you are typing a post and forget what you were responding to.

Edit:
The box that you type in is still really small on an iPad, hard to see what you are typing.
But the member photo is huge.
The web designer screwed up and switched which box was supposed to be large.

1) The old site was old and outdated.

2) The old site was overloaded with spam and needed a flush.

3) This site is now being hosted by Fancy Bear.

4) A revved up website is needed so that it doesn’t crash with the upcoming Box announcement.

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Submitted by JimInMD on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 17:40

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You are correct, sir. Too funny.

...and Conekid, your top 10 list of reasons they needed to update the website is spot on.

PM's are twilight zone weird...

And what's with the Russian thing. I mean, really? How did that get into the mix?

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Submitted by KeithFan2112 on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 19:11

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Been a long time since I spun this one. Not too shabby. I literally type off the side of my phone on this and can't read either margin when I type. Somebody didn't test this on Android phones. Or maybe we're testing it for them. I think they were unprepared for Flash deprecation.

Omg Oroborous your dog is eating his tail.

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4 years 3 months

Submitted by proudfoot on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 21:06

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Let the wheels roll free

Heading south on I5 to Oregon thick traffic

Wife driving

About 100 ft ahead a big collision occurred

She steered through and kept going

Sobering moment, gents

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Submitted by Vguy72 on Fri, 06/04/2021 - 22:28

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....but at least Vegas won.
The edit button is on the left.
Got it.
Stoltz's wife can drive!
So can my wife. She drives big rigs for a living! New format is definitely not Android friendly at all.
Why is there an APPLY button on the screen?

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Submitted by simonrob on Sat, 06/05/2021 - 02:36

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That button is there so that you can apply for membership of the Garden Club.

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16 years 1 month

Submitted by unkle sam on Sat, 06/05/2021 - 09:01

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these guys on this site could fuck up a wet dream, why? why did they do this? Hey, who ever did this, you suck. Oh well, just like the rest of the what's left of the Grateful Dead, fucking awful. Who ever designed this, stick to knitting or gardening, cause you can't redesign a web site, that's for sure. BTW, it can't be UJB when Unkle John has passed on.

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Submitted by KeithFan2112 on Sat, 06/05/2021 - 17:50

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I noticed half the gardening items are sold out. I started impulse buying for my kids who have a garden....

As I went on this spending rampage, I noticed there are fewer than 500 PNW box sets left. I wonder how many Winterland 1973 and 1977 box sets they produced? Because I was able to get both of those 5-6 years after release. Either they produced way more than 15K or some of these box sets are doing better than we think.

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Submitted by JimInMD on Sat, 06/05/2021 - 19:19

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I have little to say, but repeating that phrase made me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

I get the feeling they will improve on the interface a bit.. (I hope). I am finding that except for PM's, which are a fucking train wreck, most of the functionality is ok. It's clear to me they outsourced a good bit of this, or we would not have gotten the "would you like to translate this page" bs.

But let's give them a chance to make good.

I feel a need to reach out to HendrixFreak. I hope he is not lost in the back country.

Peace all.. have the best rest of the weekend you can possibly have.

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Submitted by KeithFan2112 on Sat, 06/05/2021 - 19:36

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Ever since last week when you steered me toward that Jam on 6/6/70, I have been deep under cover of the night, searching low and high for 1970 soundboard treasures. I began with what I had but seldom visited: Dark Star 3/24/70. It goes straight into an equally mind-bending Other One. Send lawyers guns and money.

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Submitted by Angry Jack Straw on Sat, 06/05/2021 - 20:30

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Have fun tomorrow. Your boys are looking good.

Nice job Isles.

Playoff hockey is the best.

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Submitted by That Mike on Sun, 06/06/2021 - 05:33

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I have to agree - way to go Isles!! Any time Boston loses, it is a great day. A few good dust ups in the game too. I love the intensity of the playoffs.

Good luck with your AVs today. Prediction: AVs vs Tampa Bay for the Cup. My dark horse is Vegas.

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Submitted by Oroborous on Sun, 06/06/2021 - 11:09

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Heeeyyyyyy, I resemble that remark!

Yeah, go Isles eh!
@&&&*&$& you Marchand, ya Hemorrhoid!

Good luck today Vince, it should be a hell of a game/experience.
The only thing better than playoff hockey is live/in person playoff hockey!

Looks like it’s going to be Tampa, and what about those pesky Habs!
There is nothing like a hot goalie in the playoffs and Price is looking strong.
Hell, the whole teams playing well.
I know the league restructured etc, but how the hell is Montreal possibly playing the AVs or Knights in the conference final? Seems like they should be taking it to the Bs or Tampa? Weird...

Today’s games SHOULD be sweet, let’s hope the refs don’t ruin it...
Both games are big ones. If the Habs go up 3-0....
And If the Knights tie it up that series is going to 11! If the AVs win, they “should” be in the drivers seat. Chever way, should be a big, no “HUGE” day of hockey!
But until then, I need to find me some great sounding dead; mamas at work and I’ve been stuck listening on a iPad at work all week, I need a dose of real audio, sorry neighbors ; )

Oh, could this font be any smaller? Ahem, some of us are old and don’t see so well anymore, like if I can’t read it even with glasses it’s to damn small!

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Submitted by hendrixfreak on Sun, 06/06/2021 - 13:51

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Just back from O-Wi-Yu-Kuts, mountains where Utah, Colorado and Wyoming meet... Lots of headroom out there. Working my way through a jar of psilocybin capsules... Not lost, not found. But pretty much coated in dirt after a few days. Back now, checking in on possible box news.

Keen to know whether the box-to-come is fall '72 or spring '69. Loving the latest Dave's, especially the Eyes at the end of first set, 9-8-73, my seventh show to see release. Only 68 more to go.

Cheers, HF

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