Pick of the Day, with Discussion

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April 6, 2020 - 9:47am

8,079 replies

marye

Joined:
May 26, 2007

Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

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March 24, 2023 - 7:55am

#1181

DeadVikes

Joined:
October 26, 2016

11/20/78

I wasn't able to find a good source for this show. What source did you listen to guys?

December 73. Another fine month Jim.
March 24, 2023 - 2:00am

#1182

daverock

Joined:
September 1, 2014

Lagging behind

3/18/71 is a good show - least the first cd moves nicely through it's changes, and the song list and jams to come look promising.
March 24, 2023 - 1:12am

#1183

Forensicdoceleven

Joined:
June 17, 2008

Proceed Plan Dakota…………………

Hey hey hey rockers!!

Pick Of The Day: Winterland March 24 1971 (Benefit for the Sufi Choir Of San Francisco)

Code Seminole, check 3 check 3 check 1, Red Dog over……………

The yang to the yin of March 3. The band may have started the month off low, but they ended high. Yes they may have forgotten an organ, but this fine and underrated show is much crunchier and more expansive than what came three weeks previously.

The Skull Album Johnny B Goode, so early in the first set. Top notch grease, especially the crispy Hard To Handle. A big jam sequence in the first set highlighted by an excellent Other One. How and why did they end the set with such a hard rockin’ Beat It On Down The line? Solid NFA suite to close set two, followed by a nice Uncle John’s Band encore.

I know not everybody digs 1971 shows, but this one is worth a listen, and would make a nice official release some day……..

Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

Rock on!

Doc
Where's your will to be weird?
March 23, 2023 - 9:44pm

#1184

JimInMD

Joined:
June 27, 2011

Re: Overwhelming Task

Perhaps the hardest part was convincing Phil some of this stuff is too good to fret over sound imperfections.

I have to imagine giving Latvala reign of the vault was akin to giving a kid the key to the candy store. We have Dick to thank for most of what's out there that was not officially released (more important 30 years ago than today), but sometimes I wonder what things would be like if he wasn't as generous a head as he was. We would be enslaved, waiting for the next release. ...but imagine the elation of the great surprises that await....

Anyway.. super busy which puts me in lurking mode, I check in when I can. Sorry for that. My extra credit has been a bit of Dec 73. Such a long, long time to be gone and a short time to be there.

Big rain event here now.. a hard rain's gonna fall.
March 23, 2023 - 3:33pm

#1185

1stshow70878

Joined:
September 11, 2014

Set The Wayback Machine Sherman

To 1985 - Dick Latvala starts work as the GD archivist.
It must have been an overwhelming task.
The new music format called compact disc is here.
He has his list started, likely from memory and his own tape collection.
What would we tell him is THE most important, or best, way to start the releases?
Assume it's all there in the vault and good enough to release, just to make it easier.
I'm ready back then as my wife just bought us our first CD player. Quite expensive and so are the CDs. $17.99 for a single when LPs are still under $10.00. I'm still a GD novitiate and have no clue having only attended seven shows ('78-'80).
Cheers
Oh, and is there a list (Dave L.?) of Dick's potentials that have not been released? Or is that now part of the Dave's list that Oro cites from time to time?
(Oro - I vote for the live GO since it's the one I know)

Edit: Only three of those If I Had The World To Give. First is the Aug. 30-31,1978 that I keep asking for. I'll check that out Oro. Was the Standing On The Moon of it's era.
March 23, 2023 - 11:57am

#1186

Oroborous

Joined:
June 19, 2007

Oooppss

Sorry 1st show, forgot twice, ha! Thank you, Yes very nice DP 20 review and I concur: all is very good, but perhaps the first shows playing trumps the second shows sexy set list? And is that not one of the best (for last) Charlie’s?
Great song, but being difficult sometimes it could be a bit Sloopy, but this one shines.
So awesome we have all these gems to contemplate, hopefully, for years to come!
Onward
March 23, 2023 - 9:17am

#1187

DeadVikes

Joined:
October 26, 2016

11/20/78

Hey OB, I don't think we ever hit this one. I will check it out tomorrow. Thanks.

Nice review on Dicks 20 Firstshow. I liked both shows quit a bit, but yes, that second set of Capital Centre is hot!
March 23, 2023 - 8:10am

#1188

Oroborous

Joined:
June 19, 2007

11/20/78

Not sure if we did this one, if so, I forgot to mark it down. (and please excuse).
Perhaps I tried/started at work but wasn’t able?
Anywho, looks interesting and I think I might have heard locals at the time who went speak highly off it?
Unfortunately I was still too young, at least according to those who supplied food and shelter ahem—to be going “all the way” to Cleveland lol.

EDIT: POTD MUST LISTEN!
If nothing else, you MUST hear this IIHTWTG!
Really, the whole second set as it’s very unusual, but the Playing sandwich is like a whole separate show, and the meat (Shakedown>World to Give) is simply delicious and should be enjoyed!
World to Give, another of those weird awesome but much too brief Jer tunes, and this one is phuching awesome!

Overall, the show is sorta all over the place. Especially the recording.
1/2 Step>Franks opener is always nice, but this is average and suffers from weird technical anomalies. Next few perhaps underwhelming? It’s all good, just doesn’t seem to have the usual 78 spark. PEGGY O is always welcome but prefer Goldilocks version: not too slow, or not too fast. This one perhaps a tad too slow? Decent Lightning/Supplication to round out the first. NOTE: Bob is present throughout and seems fine thus far.
Why dat? Weeeeeeeelllll, depending on who you ask this was either the worst show or one of the best lol.
Also much todo about Bob being sick, with some accounts claiming: he missed the set opening jams (he did); to he missed jam, came out to begin playing and left again until end of show…
Well, inspector Clue so says you can hear him throughout the whole show on tape, except the aforementioned Jam>Drums>Jam.
The jam sounds more like waiting around then the spectacular inprov mind melt that some describe? Though I bet it was interesting there in real time. Bob is back for the era typical slow Jack a Roe, but then things seem to really step up.
PITB seems more energetic and though not a pre hiatus beast, nice just the same, then…., then they slide into an awesome Shakedown to take it higher, but then! Jer bear breaks out the gold, it’s gold i tell ya! and JG wants to give it to you! The last of three World to Gives is just plain sweeeeetttt!
By the time they segway back into the PITB reprise you can feel the relief? definitely positive vibes, like phew, we made it!
The band, the crowd, even the sometimes inconsistent recording is on when it matters. Though the recording does slip into an extended section of aud, it almost helps this vibe! Plus, sometimes it’s nice to feel that in the midst happy communal energy often missing in boards. So big A&A to end it and the crowd loves it. No encore guessing due to time?
So I wouldn’t call it top shelf, but cool, unique interesting show, which don’t know bout you, but that’s why I come here to explore. Definitely not the worst show, in fact, as often the case, the adversity helps step things up and makes the show. When the going gets weird…indeed.

Ha, told myself only one show today but I’m already into the next night in good ole Crotchfester. 11/21/78
Sounds like typical crazy Rochester scene, kinda like the Spectrum lol. But they sure sound more like usual fall 78 so far (Big River…) recording too, not a Beatty, but so far so good.
If only I’d been just a wee bit older, this might of been my first?
That’s ok, I’ll take the first I did get lol.

Ok, onward, must be fired up after sleeping with the Elk! Literally, several slept within feet of us just outside our bedroom window last night! Cool sheet Mon!
March 22, 2023 - 11:54am

#1189

1stshow70878

Joined:
September 11, 2014

DiP 20

Had lots of time yesterday afternoon and this morning with steady drizzle coming down here. Gloomy the last month or more and no big accumulations but over our average moisture already for this time of year. San Juan basin snow pack at 150% of normal. Best in the state?
The Cap. Center, Landover beats War Mem. Syracuse hands down in my book. Expected more out of 9-28-76 with that set list and continuous 2nd set. Just didn't have the energy that 9-25-76 has. I noticed that in 2001 only two years into Dave L. taking over from Dick there were no liner notes yet from Dave. But that letter from a Deadhead from 1976 was prescient. The idea came from Relix where he read the Dead were "toying with the idea" of the eventual Dick's/Dave's series' which didn't come about until 1993(?). Man, can you imagine how many more we would have had? (edit: wouldn't have worked until CDs came out around 1984, wouldn't have put them on tapes and vinyl would have been economically unviable?) Anywho the start of 9-25 is so up-tempo with Keith well up in the mix and twinkling marvelously. The Travis Bean has such a vocal quality to it on this Cassidy. Not so great on Loser where it didn't have that chippy sound that song is known for. Keith and Jerry so pretty on Peggy-O. Nice long set lists still then. Nice stretched versions of Let It Grow and Sugaree for a solid set closer. 2nd set is just exactly perfect and whoever coined the disco dead slur just isn't reading it right. It's more like Dancin' Dead with Jerry dancing up and down the frets on Dancin' like a wild man. I mean they're a dance band, right? I know I would have been boogying to that! Audience has minds blown when Cosmic Charlie appears and there is so much newly reworked material in this era. Stand alone Scarlet is TIGHT! The drummers seem to be driving the bus by then coming on strong. And where Fire would usually come in it could have gone anywhere. That's the game isn't it? Guessing where they're going in real time? Do they even know? The St. Stephen samwich has Jerry saying "Yes it does" to one man gathers what another man spills. Smooth vocal harmonies and a Phil moment stomping with the drummers coming back into the St. Steve reprise. And a tight Sugar Mag finish. This has the '77 deliberateness but great energy too. So imagine my surprise when I found 9-28-76 a little slower and predictably mellow. Not that there's anything wrong with a great show with those characteristics but I was ready for a mind blower after reading the set list. The true tango was a real surprise though and overall a fantastic two show release. A fair number of repeats only three days apart but it didn't influence my opinion like the tempo comparison did. Glad we are still getting those two show releases every once in a while. Thanks Dave L.! And thanks to the POTD posse for suggesting these. Onward and upward. Got the jones for JGB - Don't Let Go from 5-21-76 now.
Cheers
It's not on us, Dennis will buy anything. Bless his heart!
March 22, 2023 - 10:59am

#1190

Oroborous

Joined:
June 19, 2007

10/17/83

Hit 3/20/70 for a lil snack, now I need to hear some 80s to regain my energy as I’m pooped after digging first round of Sierra cement. Plenty of moisture today brother vguy and you other desert rats.

3/20/70 was ok. Not much of a HTH jam. Weird, no weir acoustic numbers? Cool acoustic set though, lil Jer fest going on with an always welcome Katie Mae! Electric set alright, but not mind blowing. Pig has some extra spunk in LL: “ put your hand in her pocket, take out her Id and make sure she’s 18” etc.
Viola always cool, but so so version? Not the best 70 we’ve heard, but not bad for a 53 year old boot.

10/17/83: another coulda, woulda, shoulda.
Always wondered what this one was about?
EDIT: yep, wish things woulda worked out and I made it to this one, sigh.
So what do you do after 2 Stephen comebacks and a Revolution.
Just the usual GOGD! Nice Sugaree to open a solid first set. Status quo fall 83 second but with the return of Lay Me Down, and the second Revolution for an encore. Really enjoyed this show, mostly good recording though I think levels during peaks might occasionally have been a tad hot. Perhaps not the tape level, but some instruments being fed to the tape? Fall 83, another sorta under the radar excellent tour. Guess that’s why there’s been four shows officially released from it so far. Check it out!

Buckeye 88: I’ve had a tape that I combined the first set with the 3 new songs. I think I did that because I didn’t think (at the time) the second was worth another tape? I’ll have to hear the whole show again…

Yeah Dennis! I NEED to know! tap, tap, tap (sound of foot tapping) lol
Look forward to more GO reviews. Need to acquire some more new music, but only so many spots on the team, so might wait and see. Mostly wondering if I should get the studio or live album?

Ok, this Sugaree from 10/17 is jumping. Get coffeed up, cop some 83 energy…then probably time to shovel again ; )

John Perry Barlow

John Perry Barlow

Forums

Currently Listening To...

Bolo24 says: An Idea, Perhaps? Since we're all going to have a fair amount of spare time on our hands for the foreseeable future, what about starting another thread where we all listen to the same show/release on a given day and then share impressions afterward? Folks can submit suggestions and one person (not me) picks what we'll all listen to - call it Deadnet Picks or something. Anyway, if this idea is deemed to have merit, I'd suggest one of the loyal regular posters take the lead and do the picking - y'all can decide who. Might be fun. If it does go forward, I nominate Dick's Picks 18 for the first listen. Been talked about here lately, and, had it been a single show rather than a compilation, we'd probably be talking about it in the same conversation as Cornell, Veneta, etc. Or perhaps even Gainesville?? Stay safe and healthy, friends - this planet needs as many Deadheads as possible.

68 and Loud

I completely agree.

On occasion and if I'm not careful volume gets the best of me. One day I might live to regret this. Thankfully, that day was not today.

A new one for me. Some sound weirdness especially in and around banter, but what the hey.

I don't know what it is, but I have soft spot for The Eleven, Born Cross-Eyed and especially New Potatoe Caboose. Good show with some vintage grease to end the night with me feeling a little dirtier than I did when I woke up.

If there's no pick for tomorrow, I suggest the next in line. It's a partial, starts with a rare Clementine. 1/20/68 Euraka Municipal Auditorium. I think we should set up a go fund me to find all the missing reels, there's a couple missing from this show. It would be something for them to be found.

4/30/88 at the Frost

Hey Jim, I know you have had a lot on you plate this year. Thanks for checking this one out. Yes, the recording is decent, not great. Like a lot of 88 recordings out there. Still think they have some good ones in the Vault.

I liked the show, anytime I see a Hey Pocky Way, I am in. Nice Shakedown to open the second set. Love the triple Encore with China Rider OMSN.

It is good to get out of the comfort zone once in a while Doc.

Carousel Ballroom 68, okay Jim, Ok will have to que it up this morning.

Enjoy the weekend out there.

Edit. Oh and after the carousel ballroom I will be moving on the 12/9/79, Dave's Picks #47. Love this one and I need some 79. If I had the keys, I would be putting out a big 79 Box.

Lewiston, for your consideration

44 years ago today, there when Roy Buchanan along with Levon and His All Stars opened for the Dead. My last in person show, on the bus since their first album, however things had changed so much.... Doc was there, a wild late summer scene, part of my farewell to Maine.

All is worthwhile if the soul is not small.....

Hey rockers!!

Yes, we were there and had a blast. Beautiful day and tremendous music. A very fine show by the Dead, one of my all-timefavorite in-person Dead experiences.

Would make a solide offical release. It is worthy......

Doc
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile, I caught hell for.....

All is worthwhile if the soul is not small.....

Hey rockers!!

Yes, we were there and had a blast. Beautiful day and tremendous music. A very fine show by the Dead, one of my all-time favorite in-person Dead experiences.

Would make a solid official release. It is worthy......

Doc
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile, I caught hell for.....

9/6/80

Hey DMCVT,

Love this show and will get it going again this weekend.

And yes, it would make a great releasen.

Pretty sweet you and Doc were there.

9/6/80 Lewiston

I'm in - hopefully sometime this weekend I can transport my mind and spirit into late summer beautiful day/evening Maine. Sounds like a dream show and setting. Very cool that a couple of you guys got to be there. Didn't realize this was the last show before the Warfield run. Long and heartfelt write up on grateful seconds (he was there). Comment at the end from a guy who was 8 at the time and lived a "bike trail" away from the fairgrounds. Listened to part of the show from his clubhouse. Rode his bike over and snuck in. Totally dug the Drums. Made major bank (for a kid) collecting cans and bottles for deposit afterwards (which is exactly what 8 yr old me would have done.) Think I might travel John Deere with the Jim Wise FOB.

Been Gone

But back this week. I can do Lewiston again.

As I recall there is not a good soundboard that circulates, right? And the one that does is first set only and it sure does sound like an audience (or ultramatrix on steroids at least).

High energy though.. like Gainesville, there must have been something in the water.

You have to wonder if this was recorded and if so where the hell are the master tapes? I think someone (Parrish??) tossed out the language that some of the master reels were left on the seat and when the truck pulled away they must have flown out the window or something.

I'd love to see more reels (and cassettes) returned.

Anyway, Lewiston Me for me tomorrow.

Edit: Started tonight - why not? Gave up on the "soundboard" and settled on the Jim Wise same as Bluecrow. Good news, Bluecrow.. The John Deere Broke down and was sitting in the yard for the last half of the week. I got it working today. Had to replace the solenoid. Damned electronics are always interfering with time travel. Just imagine if this broke back in time before Jebediah Solenoid created the first working model for riding mowers.. we would have been screwed.. I mean, nothing wrong with being stuck in 1980 but why not go back another 10 to 15 years...

High energy is right. Pretty good audience.

Follow-Up

While I was in the neighborhood, I took a quickie with 11/28/80 Lakeland Civic Center - Lakeland, FL (30 Trips).

I figured why not.. most enjoyable, especially To Lay Me Down. Not sure why I like that song so much, but I do.

More 1980

Ah, yes, more 1980. You don't have to twist my arm. A shorter show for the time period, but still really good. Will get it going after I finish up Dicks #36, which was mentioned on some other threads. Such a great show, but apparently didn't sell well at the time. No idea why.

My Favorite Non-Multi-Track 1980 Release

Random Musing - 1980

My favorite non-multi-track 1980 release has got to be Dave's # 8, 11/30/80 Fox Theater. Love how that Matrix worked out. If anyone remembers the seaside chat, he was spot on.

Crowd noise was not as big an issue in 1980 as they could play in some pretty intimate venues. Also, as the age of the cassette master replaced the lovely Ms. Cantor Jackson, a lot of those early soundboards are a bit sterile sounding without the crystalline highs and the booming lows. Blending those early 80's soundboards with one of those near perfect audience masters works. When they aged out of the smaller, cooler venues (thinking after Jerry's coma and In The Dark) audience tapes had to compete with hundreds of the guy next to you screaming "JERRY!!" at 95 decibels, this was no longer possible.

That SBD/Dr. Bob matrix is almost exactly perfect (or as good we are going to get for the time).

On the opposite side of the same coin, I think some of the Ultra Matrix's have a bit too much of the guy yelling JERRY! then I sometimes want to hear. Thinking a lot of 87 suffers from this, and by then the audience tapes were no better.

Anyway, if Mr. Norman can pull of similar wizardry I wish they would do more like DaP#8.

Being that it’s the anniversary

9-16-90 playing now.

Wonder what the Black Friday RSD release will be.

Music comes from a place we don't know...........

Mornin', rockers!!!

Pick of the day? September 24, 1972. Because..............Dark Star!

Minor rain storm headed my way................

The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils......

Rock on!

Doc
Music comes from an icicle as it melts, to live again as spring water......

9/24/72

Oh yes, this is a great show, I am in.
Thanks Doc.

Why Not

It's an early audience, but contains one of the few Seven's that were recorded.

09/29/69 Cafe au Go-Go - New York City, NY

It's no betty board, but an interesting inflection point in GD history, so maybe worthy of our time. Primal GD on the heels of WMD Americana GD.

Despite the recording quality, it's pretty good for a 1969 audience. Worth the trip for the Seven alone. Plus, it's pretty short. Something different, something quick, and well, it's really something.

So why not mix it up with a shortie from the fall of 1969.

9/29/69

Will mix this in as I listen to the new box today. Thanks Jim.

Hope everyone had a good summer

Been a while, just wanted to say hello. Watching the Dark Star from 10/18/74, cool to see video of Ned on stage, as well as see Jerry interact with the head nod. Enjoyed the April 78 release. With the 50th anniversary of the Winterland shows a few weeks away, doesn't look like anything is happening. Be good everyone. Bob t

Bob T

Hey Bob T, how have you been man? Hope all is well.
Yes, love that bonus footage from the GDM soundtrack. Might be one of my favorite UJB.
I have been traveling for work this week so still haven't made a dent in the new box, but loving it so.far.
Good thing there is no rush at this point.

Picks

Hope everyone is enjoying the new box set. Really enjoying it so far over here.

If anyone is interested in a pick, it has been a while, how about 5/16/81, Barton Hall from the 30 Trips box?

5-16-81

Started playing it last night and finished it tonight.

Good call DV.
And I’m having a Bell’s Octoberfest too. They’re gone from the store but I have 5 more cans in the fridge.

Conekid

Nice Conekid, must be esp.

Enjoyed the show again, nice Shakedown Bertha, Sailor Saint. Show ends with that audience patch.

Enjoy the last few Octoberfests. Still have a couple six packs to get through. Would buy a few more but the self life of this beer is only 3 months and it goes bad fast.

Change alone is eternal, perpetual, immortal…..

Good morning fellow rockers!!!

October 19, 1971

The second great seismic shift of 1971. The Yang to the Yin of February 18. Similar, yet different. Old, yet new. A vision of the new era. Change can be for good if you combine audacity with safety………

An old friend missing, a new guy who seems to fit in right away. Six new songs. The return of the complete CE/TOO/CE suite. The unusual occurrence of back-to-back Garcia songs twice in the first set. The first of the Fall 1971 FM broadcasts. One of only two 1971 shows that featured both Black Peter and Brokedown Palace. There ain’t no grease, but there’s plenty of Bakersfield left, as well as big jams.

Not without its rough edges, yet somehow it hangs together oh so well. Absolutely historic and worthy of a serious listen……

Rock on!!
Doc
He who rejects change is the architect of decay, the only human institution which rejects progress is the cemetery………

10/19/71

Oh, yes, Doc this is a good show at the University of Minnesota at the Northrup Auditorium. Good idea.

Some may never live, but the crazy never die.....

Morning, rockers!!

This is for AJS. He'll know what I'm talking about...........

October 20, 1984, Carrier Dome. The last show we saw on that tour, maybe not Augusta level but very enjoyable. We had a great time. Maybe it was the liquid 25, courtesy of Deadhead Fred, a little drop'll do ya!!

Or maybe it was the music. Worth a listen!!!

If I had known being insane was so much fun, I'd have gone crazy long ago.....

Rock on,

Doc
No one can drive us crazy unless we give them the keys......

Doc & Angry Jack

10-20-84 - Syracuse

I was there also, think I met doc in the bathroom during drums,,, he was wearing a tie-dye :-)

My records show we rated Jack Straw at end of set one, a plus 2. Also second set opener of Shakedown got a plus 2 rating from our crew. We have the Black Peter that night at a plus 1.

Thing I remember was the air pressure blowing you out of the exit doors,,, deadheads LOVED this,,, kept going back in just to be blown out!

My wife went to Syracuse (both her parents also!)

Carrier Dome

Love the energy of this show. I'm pretty sure I tossed this out for a pick of the day a few years ago. I was not there, but hey.. we make it to the shows we can and hope for magic and a lightning strike or two.

Still, an enjoyable show and how about that Jack Straw. Another one where I wish I was there.

10-20-84 playing now

Just finished set 1.
It’s a Miller, but the file on my music player doesn’t have an ID number.
Vocals are pretty weak in some places. The playing seems to be trying to make up for it.
Shakedown poking around now…..

Edit:
I would have had fun had I been there.
Drums/Space was good.
I’ll listen to it again.

Most jokes state a bitter truth…..

November 7, 1971
Harding Theater, San Francisco, California

Deadicated to bolo24, because I will not follow where the path may lead, but I will go where there is no path, and I will leave a trail……

Great and classic show and a long-time personal favorite. It has pretty much everything you could ask of the Dead in this era. Rockers, Cowboy songs, hot jams, the unusual coupling of Dark Star and The Other One, an unbelievably smoking NFA transition jam (maybe the best ever?), plus even the often-expected equipment difficulties, AND jokes from the audience! The circulating broadcast copies are excellent quality and highly recommended. The band sounds loose, and the crowd sounds juiced. OK yes there’s no Pigpen, but still highly highly recommended, a classic of the first rank!!

Rock on!!
Doc
It is requisite for the relaxation of the mind that we make use, from time to time, of playful deeds and jokes

I guess I missed it....

I didn't see the notice about the next Bear's Journal, John Hammond.

If you missed too, it's available on Amazon and Bear's site.