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    marye
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    Well, it's like this. Sunday morning, in the previous version of this thread, I was posting a response to an interesting post, and things went badly haywire and suddenly, the thread vanished. Whatever that was, I'll never do it again. But since the Dave's Picks threads tend to be the preferred hangout, I am so sorry to have deprived you of yours. Please pick up where you left off and accept my deepest apologies. --Marye

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  • daverock
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    Rock N' Roll ?

    King Crimson were ( assuming they are no more) an incredible band, both live and in the studio. Those box sets focussing on specific albums, or related albums are great and they were superb live as late as 2019. But surely they couldn't be regarded as rock n' roll. To me, it sounds nothing like it. I would think, for music it to be classified as that, it would have to have it's roots in the 1950's. Updated, re-interpreted or a replicated.

    Motorhead definitely. No box set needed - just a hand full of singles.

    For me the idea of rock and roll as a lifestyle became a bit ridiculous a soon as it became identified as lifestyle. It brings to mind people who were - and even more so now, are, - basically conformists who were and are trying to copy individualists. I'm not saying I didn't do it myself - but looking back it was a bit of joke.

  • JimInMD
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    Re:

    You make some fine points Crow.

    And surely Spinal Tap should be in? They practically invented the Rock and Roll lifestyle and were the first band to popularize instantaneously combusting keyboardists, er um I mean drummers.

    Correct Dennis, was at Hershey Park but not Pirates World. Both great shows, love the Morning Dew at Hershey.

    King Crimson and Motorhead not in the R&R hall of fame? It's become so irrelevant, I bet both bands would agree with Jerry and skip it. If one of you were invited, would you go? I'd skip it or if I had more backbone I'd show up like Matt Stone and Trey Parker (South Park) did for the red-carpet affair for the South Park movie nomination dressed in drag and high on acid. (let it be known, their gowns were spectacular)

  • Crow Told Me
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    How do you afford your rock and roll lifestyle?

    I think that there's a lot of crossover between musical styles, and very often what defines a given genre is the cultural context (or we would say lifestyle) that it involves. Like, to me, most modern country sounds almost exactly like rock, but I know it's country because they're wearing hats. And driving pickups.

    I think there was definitely a rock lifestyle in the late '60s and '70s. If you had longhair, smoked weed, and had a certain set of views about war, premarital sex, and organic vegetables, you were part of that. But I it got decadent and cliched and by the '80s it had degenerated into a thing where 'rock n roll lifestyle' just meant doing lots of blow and wearing ridiculous clothing. As memorably parodied in the Cake song. Fun while it lasted, I suppose, but that party ended a long time ago.

    I do think that if you're going to have a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, you should have some criteria for what it means to be "rock," and you should probably refrain from inducting artists who quite clearly belong to other genres. Especially when there are still plenty of good rockers you haven't honored.

    My personal pet peeve here is King Crimson. How they not in the hall? They made a spectacular groundbreaking debut album that launched the entire prog rock genre. They continued to break new ground and release classic albums through the '70s and '80s. (And even the '90s, if you ask me, but not everybody likes Thrak as much as I do.) And were an amazing live band on into the 2010s. Astonishing musicianship from every lineup they ever had. How is it a lightweight, flash in the pan group like the Go-go's (sorry, Go-go's fans, but that's how I feel) gets in there, but not KC?

    Beefheart should be in there, too. And Gram Parsons.

    And remember, kids:

    Excess ain't rebellion
    You're drinkin' what they're selling
    Your self-destruction doesn't hurt them
    Your chaos won't convert them
    They're so happy to rebuild it
    You'll never really kill it

  • iangillespie
    Joined:
    Serendipity

    It's because life is in 4/4 time!
    Having spent years mixing audio for video etc I found that when you threw up a piece of music to an already existing video edit it was surprising (or should it be?) how often the cuts worked to the music and this is the explanation I came up with!

  • 1stshow70878
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    Keith on 11-17-72

    Just killing it on that Other One.
    The boys are jazzy!
    Cheers

  • Dennis
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    Serendipity

    I love when I throw a bunch of cuts into the winamp playlist and two transitions come together.

    Just had Dark Star from 3/24/70 go into The Other One from 11-17-72.

    It was a smooth changeup out of nowhere.

  • Dennis
    Joined:
    Oro and talent

    Good points.

    The arts maybe the hardest to break thru in. All of them, music, painting, writing. And let's not forget sports. Though sports has the easiest measurements, you either can hit the ball or you can't, not a matter of taste.

    The mass population loves mediocre. Sure Kandinsky, Mondrian & Pollock are great, but most want a nice landscape scene. The farm, the dirt road, the grass, the creek. Avon is the number 1 selling perfume.

    Music has an extra edge in that it's corporate driven. Make vanilla, people love vanilla.

    Talent in music is more than the ability to "play". My father in law, who was an artist and art professor, said he could teach anyone the mechanics of painting,,,,, but what to paint?

    My buddy years ago said there were two type of musicians, definers and refiners.

    Now I wish I had what it takes to just "play" songs I know, but whatever it takes to play, I don't have.

    I find people that do play always say, anyone can play, just takes practice. NOT TRUE. Nobody can do everything. Now I can fix anything and have a natural understanding of mechanics (runs in the family, like Marisa Tomei in My Cousin Vinny...... my father was a mechanic, his two brothers were mechanics, my mother......)

    Sorry too much early coffee :-)

    But music is a tough nut to crack...... and yet yacht rock did :-)

  • Oroborous
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    Good point Daverock

    But if your replying to my post, I didn’t specifically mention D&A…
    I think there’s often, but not required, a lifestyle that the true Rock greats lived.
    Zappa didn’t condone, let alone party, but I’d say he clearly lived the R&R lifestyle. Gene Simmons another example that pops to mind.
    Like a state of mind, an attitude, a culture?…like you could have two left feet but still live the jock lifestyle. A sociological thing.
    I’m just suggesting it as a general rule, not something mandatory.
    And hey, even practice and talent is no guarantee for success, and I think sometimes, that’s where living the lifestyle and having the attitude has been just as important in some cases. (Hell I’ve been fortunate to play music with several individuals that had way more talent than probably half those folks honored but you’ll never hear of them cause they never got the break or opportunity)

    But as another who had to learn things the hard way, I agree that D&A aren’t “the answer” or mandatory either, and in many cases can certainly be detrimental, but let’s face it, much of the greatest music of many types was often driven by fuel.
    Hell, when we were young and (hopefully) much dumber than now, we didn’t consider satire, we used to think Bob ment “too much of everything was just enough” and at the time, maybe he did, but eventually we figured out it was much more enjoyable to be smarter about it, which ment moderation and/or choices made more responsible and based on years of personal empirical research ; ) …know YOUR body etc.
    Perhaps my favorite quote on this is from Glen Frey (I believe) sums it up for me: “the idea is to feel good, not shitty. So you go to a party, you maybe have 2 beers for the first hour to get a nice feel and socially relax, then you nurse the third one for another hour or so by which time you probably should or want to leave anyway, you still feel good, and hopefully you didn’t make an ass of yourself” or something to those words…
    I find that philosophy works well with most things…
    But certainly much of Ozs lifestyle involved excesses that would have killed most, and he, (and Sharon) would most certainly say detrimental, but I think he started out with and would have had “it” even without all the accessories, just for example. His Bio was very enjoyable, if anyones interested.

  • proudfoot
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    "We are Motorhead, and we play Rock and Roll"

    you are correct, Mr. Lemmy.

  • proudfoot
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    cripes

    RnR HoF

    NO MOTORHEAD.

    Dolly phukn Parton is in there, but not Motorhead.

    Cher?? In.

    No Joy Division, Smiths, New York Dolls, etc.

    NO MOTORHEAD? RUFKM?

    lameness knows no bounds.

    Phuq the RnR HoF. Even if I found myself in Cleveland again, no way would I go to that travesty/joke/"piss stain" (from the Sex Pistols.)

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Well, it's like this. Sunday morning, in the previous version of this thread, I was posting a response to an interesting post, and things went badly haywire and suddenly, the thread vanished. Whatever that was, I'll never do it again. But since the Dave's Picks threads tend to be the preferred hangout, I am so sorry to have deprived you of yours. Please pick up where you left off and accept my deepest apologies. --Marye
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But please carry on.
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Thanks Mary! You're our hero.
Cheers

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Thanks, Mary!

1stshow- saw your comment in the other thread. I know that once feral, a cat often never loses that wanderlust. So I hope it all works out. Checkers really is magnificent to look upon. Our best-ever cat was a black-n-white cat. We got him from a shelter but he'd been brought there as a kitten and he was still only 5 months old, so he was soon a proper indoor housecat. He had a white spot on one side of his black nose, and a black spot on top of his paw on that same side, as if the black fur had dripped down before it was dry, and had landed there.

He used to sleep in the crook of my arm every night... even (or especially) on the coldest winter nights, he wouldn't let me fall asleep until I had pulled my left arm out from under the covers, whereupon he'd turn around 2-3 times before settling down against it. He was a big boy, so then he'd kick against me to push my arm out to make more room for himself. He's been gone now for over 11 years but I still think about him...

...and my username here was his name. <3

Miss you, Obeah the Cat! So go on home, Checkers, your humans miss you, too

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Always wondered about that name. Love his story. I too had one that would curl up at my chest at naptime and arrange me to fit.
Mr. Ones has a great pair of cats for his icon, one tuxedo, one orange. He's been seldom seen lately but I'm sure he's lurking.
We lost Otto, the "brother" we adopted with Checkers, very early on due to FIV so we don't want to lose another. Thanks for letting me get this out.
Good news! My buddy is loaning us his trail camera tomorrow. At least we'll be able to verify if he's still around.
Cheers

DaP 52 rocks! It's all about the energy, no matter what the era. I have been a fan of this show since I got a great tape of it around 1998. Nice to have an even better copy!

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In reply to by marye

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Now, back to business.
So, DaP 54 announcement……..

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In reply to by proudfoot

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or at least animals that are pets...

If you have the opportunity to see the animated movie "Flow"....see it. It's a perfect Christmas movie.

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In reply to by bluecrow

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Very pleased, my first in person show after being on the bus from early... the Wolfman Jack show.

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Just checked my stock on these two shows. Both of mine are top shelf sound, so I can't wait for the "official" release. No matter what they're always better than "public", sometimes not much, but with nice packaging :-).

Great setlist. Jerry sounds great on Morning Dew.

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Glad I subscribed w/early bird pricing.
May skip the RGM restock of DiP 1 vinyl which just came back into stock.
Cheers

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Best bonus-disc ever.. ? One of the truly great shows - thank you, Dave.. Merry X-mas to all from Copenhagen..

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In reply to by dmcvt

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Alright! More spring 73. Love it.

Wait, didn't we hear Europe 81?

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To quote Brent,
"Oh what the hell."
Ordered it.
I'll just do the Dennis and tell the wife these are collectables that will appreciate in value. Yeah, that's it.
Cheers
Dave says the filler on 54 is 3-31-73 Buffalo which is, in his words, the "penultimate" show of that tour. Penultimate should be one of those drinking games words like "veneer" for Antiques Roadshow.

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YEAAA, I thought we were getting a cool Europe 1981 show for #54 along w/bonus disc! I guess the same noise that told us the 2024 Box Set was Alaska/Hawaii 1980, and that DaP #51 was 9/26/91 called Europe 1981 for #54....sux

I mean the 2023 box Here comes Sunshine has 5-shows from a month or so later, again seems that the 1971-1978 era has been covered exhaustingly....I like 1973-74 for Jerry's playing, but there so many good songs that came after 1973 startiing with From the Mars Hotel - not really disappointed, cause knew there was 0% chance this release would be 1981

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I don't know if I've heard it either. I've heard so many from this timespan it's hard to know for sure. If somebody had asked me yesterday if it had already come out, I wouldn't have been able to answer with any confidence.

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Not sold out yet.
Maybe people don’t realize it’s available again.

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I’ll take er!
Now the picky DH might start on about other 73s, blah, blah, blah,
but as far as that tour goes these are arguably the best of the rest. Maybe what, 3/16 or 22? (Didn’t look up?) but I’ve heard em all and felt Baltimore was definitely worthy and that second set from Bu faf has to be heard! JAMS…that’s it in a word!
Good Sheet Mon, Top Shelf Where Mama Hides the Cookies! (aka RJ)

I can understand if 73 ain’t your cup of meat, as it does get a lot of love.
But it’s been since 38? I think was the last 73 Dave’s, though, yes it has been out otherwise.
I get the varying POVs about “the picks” and most are valid, but I think he’s trying…I mean DH can be a surly bunch and we all love what we love and just can’t get enough…personally, as long as they sound good I’m usually happier than a pig in slop, just sometimes ya wanna roll around longer ; )

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Spring ‘73 Mini-Box.

3-24 DaP32
3-26 DaP54
3-28 DaP16
3-31% 54bonus
4-2 DaP21

OroThing2,
So you’re saying that Dave actually got the neighborhood, street, and house correct?

Currently listening to 6-10-73 Set3 vinyl.

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I'm pleased with this pick. My intro to the Dave's series was Vol 21 - 4/2/73 Boston. At some point I went and picked up a copy of Vol 16 - 3/28/73 Springfield to backfill my collection, but I realized recently that I never really gave it more than a cursory first listen, so that show has been my commute music for much of this month. I think Phil's playing on that show's Dark Star may have put potholes into the road beneath my car. SO GOOD.

I've never heard a lick of either the Baltimore or Buffalo '73 shows, though, so this is exciting news! I know '73 shows are typically lengthy but WOW 3/26 looks like a marathon.

This will mean that the first 3 of 6 Baltimore shows will be officially released. The final such show is the "Raven Space" show. Does anyone know why they never went back to Baltimore after that April '82 show? I have to assume the cops and city hall probably decided to give them the heave-ho...

All in for more March '73 especially in the #2 DaP slot for the year so it gets a bonus disc. Super psyched for this one. I know that when I listened to Baltimore earlier this year I was totally in the "must release this!!" camp. Oro - wondered for a long while what "RJ" stood for - I knew it was high praise - but where did it come from? Finally was able to put 2 + 2 together - a "Rick Jeanneret".

For you dead serious primal heads - saw on SH Grateful Thread / Jesse Jarnow's bsky) that tapes from 2 previously uncirculated shows are up at LL: 11/18/66 Fillmore and 8/5/67 O'Keefe Center. Seem to be the real deal. The O'Keefe show a That's It For The Other One that will be the earliest version in circulation from what I read. jerrybase has uploaded both shows to utoob already.

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Playing some old vinyl.

‘Ovary Lodge’ - Ovary Lodge
An album on the Ogun label by a group including Keith Tippet and Julie Tippets. My wife, who was upstairs at the time, did wonder why she could hear a woman screaming downstairs.

‘Greasy Truckers Live at Dingwalls Dance Hall’ - Various Artists
Only played Side 4 featuring Gong. Despite the album title neither track was from Dingwalls.

‘Sounds of Sudan Volume 1: Songs from Kordofan’ - Abdul Gadir Salim
This album shows I was buying vinyl later than I thought since it was released in 1987.

‘Rhizosphere’. - Richard Pinhas
‘Heldon IV’ - Heldon
If you haven’t heard Heldon or Richard Pinhas who is in the group then I wholeheartedly recommend them.

Next I’ll get back to the CDs that are piling up waiting to be played.

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Already mentioned maybe but I'm late to the party. Just finished the 1st set yesterday. Is this a cassette SB? Were they using digital cassette by then? Sound was not what I expected. Even after they clear up the issues a couple songs in it seemed a bit muddy. Frankly my 1998 tape sounds better. I know, caveat emptor and all that and I'm glad to have it but just curious.
Cheers
Edit: Liner notes say it was cassette. And DAT wasn't invented until 1987 I discovered.

I was just testing my new 8' drone in the shape of a steelie. Candace Brightman helped with the LED lighting system, I can see why people thought it was a UFO.

Note: This drone has never been in NJ. I have my hands full weaving it in between NASA Godard Space Flight Center, the NSA, Fort Meade and DC.

These flights were all peaceful flyovers with US Blues coming out of the tiny drone speakers.

Baltimore 73 on the other hand is a worth pick. I think it was Wissoming that called for it a couple weeks ago. I wanted a mini box of Philly and Baltimore 73, but dammit, Dave never listens to me.

Edit: I have sad news to report. I replaced US Blues with Keep Your Day Job on the Steelie Drone playlist today. Eleven minutes after takeoff, my beloved Steelie drone was shot down. My flag is flying at half mast, I am not sure I can repair it.

_______________

Subedit: If you are not familiar with the Baltimore / Edgar Allan Poe / The Raven / Baltimore Civic Center reference, the above drone story will seem a bit about of place. On a related note, if you ever decide to trip in a graveyard, bring a copy of The Raven and give it a read preferably by candlelight, or just listen to the Space from 4/19/82 and it will become crystal clear. Either way don't expect to get a good restful nights sleep. Baltimore 1973 you say, I say hell yes.. what took you so long, Dave.

that's all I got, as you were

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In reply to by Colin Gould

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why is cash becoming more and more useless as time goes on?

Every time you turn around to pay for something "no cash accepted"

Classist bullsh!+

The world gets lamer every day, I tell ya

Thank goodness for the GD

and I really mean that

It truly keeps me on this Earth

GBtGD

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What's next? Testicle Hut?

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In reply to by proudfoot

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The album I was listening to was released in 1976 so there’s been plenty of time for Testicle Hut to get their shit together. Like fetch, it’s never going to happen.

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Hey, I hate that no cash crap and don't understand it. Costs them more to process credit cards than the cost of cash, which is zero.

Out on the road today I saw a Deadhead sticker on a Cadillac. Was at the liquor store last night and picked up a gnarly head grateful Dead limited edition cab. The cashier looked at the bottle and said cool! I need to get one of these because I am a Deadhead. I said you are, so am I. I then had a sudden desire to chat him up about the new release announcement, but I thought no, I better move along. We are everywhere!

Copies of the 2012 vinyl release from Brookvale Records are high priced.

This Real Gone issue isn’t the same, read the description:

“ remastered for vinyl by Jeffrey Norman from the original analog tapes for the first time ever (the previous LP release was taken from digital files).”

“ Our release actually includes some material (featuring the long-lost Phil Lesh bass solo) that was left off previous iterations of this show, and, with lacquer cutting by Clint Holley and Dave Polster at Well Made Music and pressing on 180-gram black vinyl by Gotta Groove Records, the sound on this 4-LP boxed set—which, again, comes straight from the original analog tapes for the first time—is simply sublime. ”

This Real Gone issue came out in 2023, then sold out.
So, they must have “found some” in the back of the warehouse.

Slot machines don’t spit out coins anymore.

And Bitcoin, when I first heard of it the price was under $10. I considered buying 100 of them but didn’t……
Kicking myself now. But back then it was just used on the dark web and I wasn’t sure how to get it from a legitimate source.

I think the real reason about places not taking cash is simply they don't trust their employees with the Green.

And can you believe banks will charge you for depositing cash into a business account? Credit cards just happen without an owner having to go to the bank everyday. When I had my gas station we had a river of cash that flowed everyday. But I'm sure most use plastic today. When I was a kid in the gas business, you would only see maybe 2 credit cards a night!

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In reply to by Dennis

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Yes, employee theft could definitely be part of the equation. But, no banks do not charge businesses or people that deposit cash. They do charge businesses on every transaction used with a credit card and swipe fee. Can be up to 4,% of the transaction.

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No, it's real. $0.15 per every $100 deposited after the $7500/month limit. Cash handling fee. Jeez! You're a bank! Handling cash is what you do. Find a better bank is the answer to that. Everybody makes you pay for every minute of their time nowadays.
Cheers
The liquor store I frequent just initiated a card fee of 3.5% so now I pay cash.
I remember credit cards being a new thing when I was in Jr. High. How's that for making you feel old, lol.
And bar codes and scanners at the grocery store didn't show up in my small town until 1979-80.

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In reply to by 1stshow70878

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Better switch banks Firstshow. My bank, a very large one, does not have a cash handling fee.

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That was a google search as I didn't believe it either. Not sure what bank, but it was referring to commercial accounts. I certainly never have any cash to deposit, lol. The money goes out but not in to my accounts.
Cheers

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The bank I went to wanted to charge for EVERY deposit and EVERY check. It was tidy sum. Since I worked at ATT for years I was a member of the credit union (once a member, always a member, still am!), but they had "business" accounts and everything was free! So we ended up there.

On employees and cash, even if not stolen, people are terrible money handlers. How often you get wrong change (both ways) from cashiers? We won't even talk about handing them an odd collection of money so you get even money back. Like the bill is 16.57, so you give them 21.57 and they hand you back the 1.57 because the 20 will cover the bill!

Do I sound old or what? :-) These kids today......

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In reply to by Dennis

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The TOOs employer had to hold meetings for managers to learn how to balance the drawer and do a deposit…
The drawer is only $25, so you count out 25, put that back in drawer, then deposit the rest…for this they needed training…
Yeah, tell me again how I’m a stupid boomer!

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Any shipping notice yet on DiP 1?
Only 3 days now so not worried.
Cheers
Edit: Got the shipping notice just now. Woohoo!

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Billboard magazine ran a story about the Dead's giving back with benefits and the Rex Foundation in the wake of the band being honored recently my MusicCares. In the article, there is also mention of a proper box for their 60th Anniversary:

"Rhino Entertainment — which celebrated the band’s 50th anniversary in 2015 with an 80-disc 30 Trips Around the Sun box set that collected 30 unreleased Dead shows, one from each year it was active — has a surprise in store for GD60. “We’ve been working on something that we feel is special and commensurate with an anniversary as big as this,” says David Lemieux, the Grateful Dead’s legacy manager and archivist. “Mark [Pinkus, Rhino president] and I got on the call about a year ago [to begin working on it], and when we started talking about it, we both couldn’t contain our joy.”

Speculate amongst yourselves...