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  • c_c
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    Supertaks
    Supertaks: outstanding!! glad you had a real good time! peace.
  • DIreCoyote
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    ...we just ride
    Well....How to put into words. I just finished seeing both Shoreline shows and the Gorge. My last experience with any Dead members was Phil and Friends w/Bob Dylan at the Gorge in 2000, before that was West Coast 1995 ending with the last Jerry show in the Bay Area at Shoreline. I was thrilled, to say the least...every aspect went off without a hitch. The shows were fantastic, better musically then I could have dreamed. Each show had a stellar highlight, but if I had to chose a favorite, I would say the first Shoreline show. Help/Slip/F.T opener, and we knew we were in for a nice ride. Too much to relay and reflect on...so I will just say, take what Mickey said to heart...take this good feeling out into our communities...build on the dream...live your life like the planet depended on you.
  • southerntam
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    On a side note...
    I'm sure I"m not the only one, but after listening all night on Saturday and hearing Phil do his donor rap, then hearing Mickey come out and thank the crew...I just couldn't help but feel sad that this tour was done. Like the others before me - THANK YOU BOYS FOR A REAL GOOD TIME. I can't even put into words what this band and this community means to me, and I just feel extremely blessed to be a part of it. Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile!~Tam
  • southerntam
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    Supertacks....
    Just have to say I loved reading your post, just loved it! I read it and re-read it twice. That's what it's all about, and I love how you only got a few hours of sleep and woke up the next morning feeling more relaxed than you had in some time. Great post!!!!~Tam
  • thor369
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    the spring show
    i had an event AFTER the show, that ruined it for me, i held off ofr 5 days, to get it resolved, but.... my wife got sick at shoreline, RockMed, the heros they are, got my wife to ambulance, right after the encore, i bought wristband, picked up CD in time, b4 ambulance left, well... the 3rd disc dont play, i missed the 2nd half of 2nd set 2x sofar. the CD only has dead.net listed as contact info, they tell me on phone they dont FIX venue sold items. WHO DOES?? how do i get the 1/3rd of this show i paid for, and the recording wont play? why does it take 5 days for dead.net to still not have answers for me on how to replkace this disc, other then REBUYING the download for $15 more!! this is what the opperator told me, at dead.net i didnt buy a download, i bought a concert bought, pressed CD. i spent good cash for it, all i want is what i paid for, thank you. if not, return my $25 for this half a show, and i will stop going to shows alltogether. me and my wife collectively have over 200 shows behind us, this is the ONLY bad exp i got from 20+ years of going to your shows. is it so hard to step up, and give a bit of service to those who pay your bills, lines your pocket, the fans.
  • JackstrawfromC…
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    My highlights
    Nice story Supertacks! As I sit in a hotel in Montana, 500 miles from home I am still dazed. We had so much fun and I felt like I did 20 years ago. Being stuck in the rat race I really needed this tour for many reasons and on many levels beyond just seeing a concert. Here are some of my highlights of my 10 days of craziness: * Walking into the Pepsi Center and everyone is just going nuts - hooting and hollering, we weren't even inside yet!! * The Denver acoustic set and especially Deep Elem Blues was so so good * Taking my daughter and wife to Shoreline for the 20 anniversary of my first show at ... Shoreline!! What a feeling dancing with my little girl in the same place I first danced 20 years ago * Help Slip Franklin opener ... St Stephen the 11 encore * SHOOT!! Couldn't make it to LA but from what I heard from folks in the lots it was super sick. * Now on to Shoreline May 14. This show folks was so good. The best post-Jerry show by faaaaaar. And I would say maybe one of the top 10 Grateful Dead /The Dead shows ever. Seriously I will stand here and defend that statement that it was was one of the best shows I have EVER seen. You can read my earlier review but when they were playing Fire all of Shoreline was in one wave of cosmic trippy dancing it was so beautiful and it reminded me of back in the day * Getting a 70 year old super cool lady high for her first time at Shoreline * The fire dancers doing their thing to Mickey's thunder * Seeing the Gorge *Hearing Dire Wolf and Althea and Eyes * I will say this about the Gorge though - it was like the boys finished shoreline and were like "oh shit we still have to play the gorge" * I am a new huge fan of Warren he had me in tears several times this tour. Just as one girl was shouting as she marched through the campground at the Gorge - "Warren - Motherfucking - Haynes!!! ORDER OF MY FAV SHOWS: 1.2ND SHORELINE 2. DENVER 3. 1ST SHORELINE 4. GORGE Thanks for a real good time and please come on tour again!! Can't wait for Ratdog this summer! Thank you all for your wonderful vibes!!! I felt them!! "Escaping through the lily fields, I came across an empty space. It rainbow then exploded, left a bus stop in its place. The bus come by and I got on, thats when it all began. It was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of the bus to never ever land"
  • Supertacks
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    Closing thoughts on the
    Closing thoughts on the Spring Tour I am 45 now. Up until 04 I had not been to a “Dead” show or derivative of since 90 or 91. I was 27, 28’ish in 91. I caught on at age 18-19 at City Island in Harrisburg in 82 but didn’t get going until 83. Back then I was still wondering around aimlessly not even understanding that I had not found my niche in life yet. I knew I was not confident within certain groups or types of people and in certain situations but beyond that was just a punk kid. I was going to lots of different types of conerts back then and none hit me like a Grateful Dead show. The reason was that this was one place I could go where I felt I was not being judged by anyone and had no expectation to live up to. Of course I did not realize that then, but that was really the thing for me that made it a great place to go. I gre up during that period and carried on until 91. i took in 100+ plus shows in the time. Fast forward to 04. I went to see The Dead at Montage Mountain for Nostalgic purposes. They were 20 minutes from my house so it was low maintenance. It was great fun and the music was good. If I had to go further I would have said fuck it. I didn’t go there with the high expectations or expecting it to be like it used to be. I had a great time, got home to bed, and was asleep by 11:30. I listened to Jack Johnson the next day. Fast forward to 08. A good bud works at the Bryce Jordan in State College and emails me way ahead of public knowledge telling me the Dead are doing an Obama benefit. I figured fuck it I’ll go. I got tickets, then totally realized the historic significance of the show among the community, but it wasn’t that big a deal to me. I get to the show and am blown away. November 08 – The Kirby Center in Wilkes-Barre is a small and beautiful theater in WB. They are my client. Bob Weir is doing a show there and my phone rings that morning. It’s the promoter, he is having computer problems and needs help. I say “Let me grab my hat and I’ll be right there” They are across the street from my office so I am onsite in 4 minutes. I casually let him know I was at the Bryce Jordan show and he smiles and says let me put two comps at Will Call for you tonight. I had no plans on going. My wife goes with me and the show is killer. Fast forward to Spring 09 The economy is in the shitter, I know of 5 or 6 people who have lost their jobs who are extremely talented. There is little good news and everyone is stressed to the max. The Tour is announced and The Dead books Wilkes-Barre. That’s my building, I do ALL the tech work there so of course I gotta go. WB has no idea what they are in for and don’t open the lot until 4. It’s a full fledge spring tour so the busses were dusted off, tuned up and the caravan is in high gear. The community sets up in the Walmart parking lot up the street. The scene is small but cool. Same ole, same ole, but has a really different feel than the 04 show. The 04 show felt like a reunion show for nostalgic purposes only. This was different. The show itself was good, not great, but good enough for me to check out some other shows online. As it turns out the WB set list was my least favorite of the tour so far. I start to get the itch to go to Philly where I didn't miss a show through the 80's Fuck me. We get in town at 2:00 and it’s just going off. I find myself saying stuff and hearing stuff that hasn’t entered even my most remote thoughts in 20 years. As soon as we pull in I looked at my bro-in-law and said “Lets pour a beer and head over to Shakedown Street for some eats” I am immediately floored because I haven’t thought about Shakedown in that wqay forever. I talked to too many people to count. Many now corporate guys with old shirts on and many hippies, some that came in community busses just like the old days. No one is talking about the economy, Iraq, school shootings, swine flu, the crime rate, the financial crisis, GM, Chrysler, housing, none of it. Everyone is smiling, speculating on the final Set List for the Spectrum. There is much talk of the first “Dew” on the tour. Much talk of the first "Samson and Delilah” on the tour. I had my Hershey 85 shirt on. No less than 20 people stopped me to talk about Terrapin in the rain. There was tie dye, crystals, falafel, burritos, balloons, curry, BO, Patchoulie, much sweet smelling smoky stuff etc. All the symbolic stuff was point on. The vibe was just incredible. If they tour again I will be there. At 45 what I got out of it was every bit as fun as it used to be. I was not there to cut loose without fear of judgment like back in the old days. My life is well defined now and I am comfortable in my skin. But it was soul cleansing and therapeutic to rinse off the stress of everything going on in my 45 year old world. There was this total sense of release from everyone there who was doing the same thing. After just one afternoon and evening . . . (Got home and 3:00 a.m., shower was mandatory) asleep at 3:30 and still woke up Sunday morning feeling more relaxed and fresh than after a week’s vacation and I still feel that today. I haven't listened to anything but the Dead since May 2nd. I DL'ed every show on this tour, stayed up way too late checking out the streams, met tons of new peeps online and have just had a blast. I think we get so caught up in our lives, families, children, responsibilities, and the expectations everyone around us sets for us, that it’s hard to do stuff like this without feeling irresponsible. I am fortunate in that I have a wife who urges me to go have some fun and blow off some steam. I pick and choose very carefully where I use these opportunities and only use the hall pass once or maybe twice a year. He'll I don't even golf. She knows this, so when I bring something up she knows it’s for real. It’s so nice to be able to do something you know, really puts your wife out for a day and she is still supportive and encouraging. There is still nothing like a Dead Show. If several circumstances did not happen that made it easy or convenient for me to get re-acquainted I never I would have. I am not sorry there are more shows on this tour I can’t go too, but truly appreciate the ones I did. I am back in the daily grind now, and the grind is rolling off me like water on a well waxed car. It is so amazing to me that this scene evolved the way it did, and survived. If you look at the era in which we live, it is one of the most unusual occurrences going and I am honored and blessed to have had the opportunity to particpate. God bless the Grateful Dead and everyone that is a part of it. You people are as much responsible for this as the music. I will miss this tour, can't wait for the news of another, and am off to have another grate day!
  • TigerLilly
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    MOYE!
    Poetic, heartfelt, and multiple times; as usual!!!!!!!!! Love you bro! ********************************** Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. Mark Twain
  • Moye
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    TEARS OF JOY
    Well, found myself tismorning listening to the last show on this tour.(sigh) The boys have definately outdone theirselves on this tour. I hate to see it come to an end. Im keeping my fingers crossed for a fall tour. Listening to the last show, I found some tears running down my face. (tears of joy) I just want to say thank you Mickey, Bill, Bobby, Phil, Warren, and Jeff for all the joy and happyness you guys gave us on this tour. Made alot of new friends here on dead.net and in the Philly lot. Thank you Dead.net and thank you Marye for your knowledge and trouble shooting on this site. I hope to see all of you on a fall tour:) God Bless you all and God Bless The Grateful Dead!!!! Peace- Moye
  • Moye
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    TEARS OF JOY
    Well, found myself tismorning listening to the last show on this tour.(sigh) The boys have definately outdone theirselves on this tour. I hate to see it come to an end. Im keeping my fingers crossed for a fall tour. Listening to the last show, I found some tears running down my face. (tears of joy) I just want to say thank you Mickey, Bill, Bobby, Phil, Warren, and Jeff for all the joy and happyness you guys gave us on this tour. Made alot of new friends here on dead.net and in the Philly lot. Thank you Dead.net and thank you Marye for your knowledge and trouble shooting on this site. I hope to see all of you on a fall tour:) God Bless you all and God Bless The Grateful Dead!!!! Peace- Moye
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The band says Happy New Year with an announcement of almost twenty shows in April and May.  More details to come!

https://dead.net/dead09

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15 years 10 months
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Bruce springsteen is fuckin up the history of rock and roll. --pee wee herman "nice dreams"
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17 years 5 months
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tj crowley $100 ???????? WHAT???????
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15 years 10 months
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Anyone know if camping in going to be allowed? Looks like closest campground is in New Jersey. Is it more likely people are going to stay in hotels close by?
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THIRD EYE ENTERTAINMENT presents QUADLIBET for TENDER FEET THE 40th ANNIVERSARY of the Grateful Dead at Fillmore West March 2, 1969 The Zen Tricksters with special guest TOM CONSTANTEN (Grateful Dead) and Joe Chirco will perform the entire show forty years to the day on March 2, 2009 at Mexicali Live 1409 Queen Anne Road Teaneck, NJ 07666 Show Date: MARCH 2, 2009 Tickets: $13.50 ADV $20.00 DOS Online ticketing: www.mexicalilive.com Venue phone 1-201-833-0011 Doors: 7:00pm Show: 8:00pm Show end: 11:55pm Band website: www.zentricksters.com Promoter website: www.myspace.com/thirdeyeentprod Promoter email: thirdeyeent@optimum.net THE SHOW Set ONE 1. Dark Star 2. St. Stephen 3. The Eleven 4. Turn On Your Love Light SET TWO 1. Doin' That Rag 2. That’s It For The Other One 3. Death Don't Have No Mercy 4. Morning Dew SET THREE 1. Alligator 2. Drums 3. Jam 4. Caution (Do Not Stop On Tracks) 5. Feedback 6. We Bid You Goodnight
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tj crowley and affordable too!!!! think the boys out priced themselves from a lot of folk
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This is great. Last time we saw the dead was the waive the flag tour which was great. also caught the obama beneifit in PA. After the last dead tour we followed The Bobb Dylan Show for a cpl of years but sure am stoked to be going down the road feeling bad. We are going to make it to four shows on this tour for a whopping total of $1500 in ticket for me and my girl. But well worth it. See you in Albany, Buffalo and the two night in Philly. Peace, Joe and Emily P.S. we miss u- Doozer, Shawny, Shannon, Brigit..........Not Fade Away
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It might be the devilIt might be the Lord It might be Ticketmaster But you're gonna have to serve somebody (Serrrve Sombodddy)
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15 years 10 months
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A person on the RatDog blog recieved his mail order tickets on Sat and has a link to ebay site where he's selling them for face value. There's a pic of the envelope with post mark and the tickets. I would say the tickets should be arriving soon.
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Hey - I've been out of the loop for several years, so pardon me if this is a stupid question, or if it has been covered already... Does Candice still do the lighting design, and/or will she be involved with this tour?
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I got one of my tickets today ,philly 5/1 I hope 5/2 is coming soon.I'll have to check,but it looks like a grate seat. PEACE Tina
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15 years 9 months
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can someone please tell me the dead is gonna hit bonnaroo
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We got half of our order of six (6) tickets for the Spectrum shows today. For Fri 5/2, we got three seats in Section 105 Row 2, and for Sat 5/2 (where demand exceeded supply by 50%), we got Section 213 Row 2. No complaints on either night. We'll be ~22 rows from the stage the first night, and just off the floor midway back from the stage the second night. The last lil' miracle that my group needs is for GDTS to match up our two separate orders (both envelopes were brightly decorated with the same drawings) so that all six of us are sitting (ahem, I mean dancing) in the same spot. Gotta love GDTS! I'll gladly live with a few weeks of uncertainty for great seats and none of the hassle that the on-line 'heads went through during the pre-sale. Philadelphia, here we come! 81 days to go!!
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I just read an interview with Bob Weir in Relix, and he indicated that a summer tour in '09 is unlikely, but it's under consideration for '10. So it appears that Bonnaroo ain't in the cards this summer.
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I'm waiting on some Shoreline tix from GDTS. Regarding the Dead this summer, I would think at least Ratdog would do a summer tour yeah? "When the smoke has cleared, she said, that's what she said to me. You're gonna want a bed to lay your head and a little sympathy"
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I lent out my Relix magazine to a friend so I can't double-check right now, but if memory serves, Weir's comments in the interview implied that it's unlikely that the Dead will tour this summer BECAUSE of commitments that the various members' bands have already made, which could mean some combination of Ratdog, P&F, Mickey and/or Bill. I haven't checked the Ratdog site recently, but hopefully they'll be on the road at part of the summer. Personally, I'm hoping for the 10,000 Lakes Festival in MN (since I live here now). Phil, Mickey and DSO all made it last year, so it's Bob's turn this time...
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The Dead Tour Spring 2009 update:The last of Spectrum orders will go out this week. Next out the door is Madison Square Garden. The remaining shows will go out in the next three to six weeks. We will keep you up-to-date as we go along.
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We got our mail order tix for Philly andgot some sweet seats too!!! Level 1 sec 201 friday night and FLOOR seats sec 104 for Saturday night..... I love my friend for mail ordering for me!!! Yipeeee! Peace
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Glad to hear this, that the old tried and true way of doing things still works just the same! At least it lets me know that not all things in this world our beyond FUBAR! Can't wait to be spinning, spinning, free with you all! 84 dayz!____________________________________________________ Will you come with me? Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right!
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out there received a refund from GDTS for MSG yet? "Let there be songs to fill the air."
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Just checking...I know they said it might be up to two weeks before the show that we see our tix but I"m just curious to see if anyone who ordered online has started receiving them yet. Thanks in advance!!!~Tam
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I also know what they said...I'd still feel better if I had them in my pocket.
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I know that I've done at least one other presale with this same outfit, got the tickets within a week. So this delay does make me antsy...
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No kidding I sure wish they wouldn't wait until the last second. More and more it is obvious that GDTS is the way to go. If they sell out THEN get online. "No they never stopped rockin, goin round and round, reelin and rockin, what a crazy sound No, they never stopped rockin, til the moon went down"
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Tam and other online orderers - I got tix for both nights at Worcester and the Hartford show during the presale and have not gotten those tix yet, but I got one for Albany too once they went on sale to the public and that showed up about a week after placing the order. Have to wait on those presale tix though, but I'll be happy to have them in hand. Can't wait!
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I'll probably get mine last since I'm on the tail end of the tour. Oh well...keep me posted if any of you receive your pre sale tix...just so I know that they're starting to send em out.~Tam
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head over to the Channel 666 topic, where this is being discussed.
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Don't know if you saw this....sugarmegged to me this afternoon. Here's some good news and it's about time. Let's see how far it gets: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090209/ticketmas ter_090209/20090209?hub=TopStories Suit alleges Ticketmaster broke anti-scalping law Updated Mon. Feb. 9 2009 1:30 PM ET CTV.ca News Staff A $500-million class action lawsuit has been launched against Ticketmaster and related groups, claiming the ticket seller conspired to "scalp" its own tickets. The suit alleges that Ticketmaster has diverted tickets to concerts and other popular events away from its own regular website, Ticketmaster.ca, over to its ticket-brokering website TicketsNow.com. TicketsNow allows people who have tickets to exchange, trade or sell tickets at marked- up prices. Lawyers from Sutts, Strosberg in Windsor, Ont., and Branch McMaster in Vancouver say they're representing a client who allegedly paid more than $530 for two concert tickets from TicketsNow that would have cost about $130 if they had been available from Ticketmaster. The client had attempted to buy the tickets through Ticketmaster's regular website and was directed him to the higher-priced tickets on the TicketsNow website. The firms say other event-goers have been overcharged in the same way when they bought tickets from Ticketmaster.ca or TicketsNow.com since February 2007. They allege the defendants violated Ontario's "anti-scalping" laws, contending that the practice of selling tickets in the secondary market for amounts that exceed their face price violates the legislation. The law firms claim Ticketmaster Entertainment, Inc., Ticketmaster Canada Ltd., TNOW Entertainment Group, Inc., and Premium Inventory, INC. owe $500 million in damages to those who were overcharged. The firms allege that Ticketmaster deliberately limits the number of tickets that are sold at face price and then diverts tickets to TicketsNow, where they can be sold for amounts that exceed their face value. "Customers have voiced concerns over the fact that tickets for the most popular events can ostensibly sell out in minutes, only to become immediately available in the secondary market at much higher prices," said Luciana Brasil of Branch McMaster, one of the lawyers representing the plaintiff. "The mere fact that Ticketmaster has a financial interest in both retail and premium ticket sales leads to an obvious question about the process by which those tickets are sold to members of the public and how it works," said Jay Strosberg of Sutts Strosberg LLP, another of the lawyers representing the plaintiff. Ticketmaster has said in response to prior complaints that the company's ticket-selling system is fair and doesn't violate the law. The class action aims to represent all persons who bought tickets for an event in Ontario from Ticketmaster or through TicketsNow.com from and after February 9, 2007. More information on the suit can be found at www.ticketmasterclassaction.com. Earlier this month, Bruce Springsteen expressed anger with Ticketmaster's selling practices. He said he has heard from fans who wanted to see him play at New Jersey's Meadowlands that they received an error message on their computer screen that shut them out of the main Ticketmaster website. The potential ticket-buyers then saw an ad for Ticketmaster subsidiary TicketsNow offering tickets for hundreds of dollars more than face value. Springsteen said on his website that he and the E Street Band are "furious." "We perceive this as a pure conflict of interest," the band said. The band said it had received assurances from Ticketmaster that it will stop redirecting Springsteen fans to TicketsNow. ____________________________________________________ Will you come with me? Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right!
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I received my tickets for both Spectrum shows, today!Floor seats both nights! Thank you Dead! Thank you GDTS TOO! The only reason I'm not jumping for joy is to write this post. I can't jump and type. Also, this is my first post on the dead.net forums... Hello friends! See you at the show! "Please don't be sad if it was a straight line you had We wouldn't have known you all these years"
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let's move this over to the Channel 666 topic (where, it emerges, TM and Live Nation are now trying to make the case that hey, no antitrust problems here if they merge...) and add it to the already bubbling brew. And leave this to the tour per se. Thanks!
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Sounds like a plan...Sweet, didn't know where to post it. Don't have time to even write this!____________________________________________________ Will you come with me? Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right!
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Don't ever doubt the boyz didn't know that ALL the Deadheads would not be all over anyone who trys to Stagger Lee our azzes!____________________________________________________ Will you come with me? Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right!
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16 years 2 months
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Still waiting on my tickets to both shows and I'm starting to get worried because I've heard of other people getting their tickets already to the same shows. Anyone else waiting on their Philly tickets still?
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15 years 10 months
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I am pretty sure no one has received their pre-sale tickets yet (musictoday). I guess mail order tickets are starting to arrive but not those. I have a bad feeling musictoday is going to make us wait until the last minute! "When the smoke has cleared, she said, that's what she said to me. You're gonna want a bed to lay your head and a little sympathy"
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15 years 10 months
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I orginally only had the budget for two shows so I did mail order for Denver and Shoreline. I haven't gotten those tixs yet. I came up with some extra scratch just before the general on sale. So I got a ticket for the Forum through Ticketbastard which I received in less than a week - looks like I will be sitting with Jerry for that show ;-} lol! I would like to catch up with anyone interested in getting together at the Forum send me a PM if you want...... Peaceful Journey to you all - Saint Stephen with a rose. In and out of the garden he goes. Country garland in the wind and the rain. Wherever he goes the people all complain.... Shine On! Saint Stephen
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But I don't think it will be logistically possible. I will be at the Pepsi Center and Shoreline though! "Goes to show, You don't ever know, Watch each card you play, Play it slow."
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15 years 10 months
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i will be attending forum and shoreline + a few frinds from the mountains of Co are coming into town for both. i live about 5 miles from forum and we may be driving up to shoreline.
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15 years 10 months
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i have been a head since 1986 and my friends from CO since before that, so di not let the 1/15/09 joint date fool you.
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16 years 10 months
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Going to Wilkes Barre alone, need someone to twirl with.... who's going so I can meet up? Also doing both Philly shows and MSG : ) Ami
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I joined this site late in the game myself. No matter, we're all here now! Better late than never! "Once I knew a preacher, preached the Bible through and through. He went down to Deep Elem, now his preaching days are through"
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I'll be at both PA shows with some friends -- five from MN and one from SC -- all of us "bus riders" since the 70s. Our tickets are kinda all over (we're split between 105 & 213 the first night, and 213 & 216 the second). While none of us have been to a show at the Spectrum before (we picked it 'cause it's a two-night run...gotta see at least two shows since we're traveling), other 'heads we know have and assure us that the parking lot scene will be great (perhaps even a bit emotional for the locals, as the arena is to be demolished later this year), so we're all looking forward to engaging in the pre- and post-show "community". I imagine threads will get started by tour site before long, allowing for some rendezvous arrangements.
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Ticketmaster is putting tickets on sale for "The Dead" camping and parking on 2/20 for 5/17. Is there gonna be a show there? Trying to figure out what shows to go to.
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bartmc - Your post got me excited. Can't spend 20 + hrs. to get to a show now (closest one), but will spend 3 to get to the Gorge. Looked around and didn't see any mention of this yet. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake