Grateful Dead

I believe yesterday someone was asking if the BOG, Groovy Music was worth buying - absolutely!

I suck at picking and ranking things, but every full or partial boxed sets I have listened to are among the very best...

Really enjoy the lists, though.

Check PM

Dam kids, get off my lawn, and quit having so much fun! Lol
Sounds like the box is a real Boobie Dazzler, glad your all enjoying it so much....I’ve been doing the Spring 90 shuffle instead, hard to believe it’s been 30 years!
Also think I might use this time to try and get ripped the remainder of the huuuggge stack of Discs Dead.net Sandy Claus sent a ways back that I haven’t had time.
Hey, have to find the upside right?

VGUY: thanks for the Betty tip. That ought to be awesome!

CHARLIE: Thanks for the huge laughs! I only rode the bus 2 years for half days to “trade school” Senior year we’d go to regular school in AM then head there via bus on the Thruway to another town/school district etc. (Stoners from like 6 different districts)
Our school had 2 busses. One completely overcrowded with 70s freaks doing pretty much everything because 1) it was late seventies and the inmates were sorta running the asylum, and 2) because we had the coolest bus driver ever: this super hip black dude named Bill. I swear I saw him hit the bong on occasion!
Only like a half dozen quiet/loner/awkward types rode the other bus.
So as part of the journey, we’d have to go through a toll booth. So for some reason they’d always pull into 2 separate parallel booths at the sane time, bad move! Degenerates that we were we would use that opportunity being side by side, especially if there was a line, to have massive food fights, Er a, more accurately us idiots on the rowdy bus would pelt the “good” bus. It was becoming a thing with folks literally bringing old vegetables from there families gardens etc, just crazy stuff, especially if the good bus forgot to shut their windows!
This went on for longer then you’d think, until one day some jack ass thought it’d be funny to get the booth attendant and no it wasn’t toll both Willy!
So next day the circus comes rolling up and don’t ya know the fuggin State troopers are waiting for us....good bus sails right through and we get pulled over and boarded. Holy shit talk about people getting creative about stashing big bongs, various rotten projectiles, you name it, and poor ole Bill was freaking out! (Don’t Blame him!).
Well being the seventies and “kids being kids” and 5 0 really not being that into it thank God, they basically just came through and shook some nap sakes and yelled a little and put on a show to scare us enough to “not jump off the balcony” Er, a, stop throwing shit out the windo etc, oh yeah, and from then on we always pulled up single file 😉

PS: need to blow those hits out the windo Bra! LOL. Ozium helped too, but like you said, who did we think we were kidding!

With the caveat we can disagree about what qualifies fir a box, I nixed the ones that do not include full shows (So Many Roads, Golden Road, Beyond Description, GD Movie Soubdtrack.

Year: # Boxes: Shows/ Discs
1969: 1: FW CR: 4+/11 (2005)
1972: 1: E72 CR: 22/73 (2011)
1973: 1: W73 CR: 3+/10 (2008)
1976: 1: J76: 5/15 (2020)
1977: 3: W77 CR 3+/10 (2009); May77 5/14 (2013); GStL 4/11 (2017)
1978: 1: J78 CR: 5/12 (2016)
1989: 2: Warlocks 2/6 (2010); RFK 2/6 (2017)
1990: 2: S90 6+/18 (2012); TOO 8/23 (2014)

Multi Year:
1973/74: PNW CR: 6/19 (2018)
87/89/91: Giants: 5/14 + 1 DVD (2019)
74/78/80/85/87/89-91: ATYC: 10ish/14 (2012).
66-95: 30 Trips: 30/80 + '45 (2015)

What's next? The absence of '68, '70, and '71 boxes is glaring. That would get my vote. 3 issues are: having the tapes, some stuff already released, and the deal for the Betty's may include getting them out first.

October '68 is really interesting. You could do a break-up/make-up box with the Mickey & the Heartbeats shows (no Bob/Pig) on the 8th-10th; the Avalon shows with Bob back (11th-13th). And then the 10/20 & 10/30 shows with everyone back (& Cassidy & Bishop guesting on the 30th). IDK if they have tapes, though.

Don't think they have fall '70 tapes, but 2/11, 2/13, & 2/14 deserve a complete release, though a lot of 2/13 & 2/14 is already out.

Ditto April '71. That closing of Fillmore East run. 5 shows. Could also be issues with permission for the Beach Boys/Duane Allman stuff.

Would love acoustic '80 stuff, but I don't think they have the tapes (as the Warfield release proves). And we just got peak Brent/Bruce with Giants, so I think Alpine or a Meetup video box is probably out.

So I would predict Betty's. Likely from '73-'74. October '74 Winterland has already been released in part. So I would go '73. Either 2/9, 2/15, 2/17 or 5/26, 6/9, 6/10. .

Sorry for legnth.

New box sound is incredible. On that score it is definitely top notch.

In terms of repeats, a lot of the earlier years were pretty repetitive. Less overall material and more new songs, which got repeated a lot. And for '76, there were only 2 tours (41 shows). Another tour might have broadened the menu some. And, no acoustic sets or extended runs with guests (Dylan) or personnel changes.

# of different songs performed by GD year/# of shows):

Over 100 different songs: 1987: 150 songs/85 shows; 1994: 145/84; 1990: 144/74; 1995: 143/47; 1993: 143/81; 1991: 138/77; 1989: 135/73; 1992: 134/55; 1988: 131/80; 1985: 130/71; 1986: 125/46; 1984: 125/64; 1981: 123/82; 1970: 119/142; 1982: 110/61; 1983: 110/66; 1980: 103/86.

Less than 100: 1969: 97/146; 1979: 93/75; 1971: 90/82; 1972: 87/86; 1978: 86/89; 1977: 81/60; 1974: 83/40; 1973: 77/72; 1976: 66/41; 1966: 63/102; 1968: 46/117; 1967: 32/121; 1975: 28/4.

Though I guess one should go ahead and do the different songs/show math if you want a real diversity rank. Though I guess sings per show would have to factor as well.

And, surely, the lack of set lists from the early years depresses the numbers some.

Hey Kids!!
Anybody have access to scans of the individual show folders?
Mahalo!

https://archive.org/details/gd69-03-22.sbd.cotsman.8994.sbeok.shnf

ps I'd like to hear the rest of this show. This portion was fantastic!

Just THANKS to all involved in making this box possible, and making sure it was released NOW unleashing limitless joy into the world. All aspects of this release are amazing.

Haven't read the Greil Marcus book, but Music From Big Pink is so influential and new in 1968 that it influenced bands like our own good ol' Grateful Dead, Cream (Clapton wanted to leave Cream and join The Band, but he was afraid to ask them to join), Jimi Hendrix Experience, and tons of later bands to be open to exploring earthier topics, and doing so with music with roots in blues, bluegrass, jazz, rockabilly, jugbands, that we now term "Americana". The Dead were so immersed in this sound they did back to back albums where contemporary rock critics cited The Band as an obvious influence on the wild psychedelic band from San Francisco. Nobody argued that Creedence Clearwater Revival's massive success influenced the Dead to change, and they were both San Francisco bands, but the band of Canadians with an Arkansas boy with lyrics sometimes telling a timeless story had a big impact on the Dead becoming the band they did. I can't imagine Robert Hunter writing Brown-Eyed Women, Jack Straw, Brokedown Palace, Ripple, etc. without Robbie Robertson's influential songwriting, which was far less obscure than Bob Dylan's. Also, Duane Allman supposedly said that his favorite guitarist was Robbie Robertson. Their reach was widest amongst musicians, and their impact was felt through the way music changed and progressed by looking back to older styles. But they also landed on the front cover of Time the very week Workingman's Dead hit record shelves, so they had a massive mainstream impact as well.

Every time a new box set is released, this topic seems to appear.

Despite my insomnia issues, I did not purchase the 76 box set. For those who did, glad you are enjoying it. That being said, my rankings remain as follows:

FW 69 complete. Small, but powerful. Every time I listen, I am blown away.
E72. The gold standard. If you could only purchase one box, this is it.
PNW box. Yes, a sleeper, but I love the sound. Completely understand those who rank it lower.
W73, W77. Both awesome for different reasons. Both quintessential.

TTATS gets lots of votes, but the later years move it down the list for me.

Stay six feet apart people!

But disagree about the bit on Hunter.

Your comment leaves out the fact that the Dead, Garcia, Weir, and Hunter were very much into "Americana" stuff, folk, bluegrass, and much more before getting psychedelic in late '67. I mean, listen to Mother McCree's. Or Bob (Hunter) & Jerry.

For me, while I love the Band, I think the Dead were always gonna return to their roots. And psychedelia was not it for any of them. While Big Pink assuredly had an influence, so did the fact that the Anthem/Aoxomoxoa weirdness & studio sessions had left them in the red.

A course correction to something more streamlined, basic, and easy to lay down needed to happen. And CSN were also a big influence as well with vocal harmonies. You can hear that on Workingman's & Beauty.

Anthem to Beauty is a nice video if you do not have it.

Hopefully one day the penny will drop ! They are clearly very respected and had an enormous impact on others in the late 60s. I wonder if a lot of pre 1960s American music had slipped out of young peoples consciousness by 1968. With the impact of The Beatles , psychedelia and heavy electric guitar based rock, maybe music like country, ragtime, rockabilly etc had become obscure, so that when the Band looked to these genres for inspiration they were quite unique for the times. Whereas for the last 30 years or so, the older genres of American music have become more widely available, thereby limiting the Bands impact as time has gone by.

I really like some of the other late 60s American bands I have heard recently-Cactus and Grand Funk coming to mind, but I seem to miss the boat when it comes to the Band. Maybe they were too subtle ! I wouldn't knock them at all...my loss.

What the hell could it hurt?......Maybe "Screamin Jay Hawkins" was on to something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI3YzuzwK44

Last 5
June 76 Box
15
19
10
11
14 (started here)

No defects detected, now time to import to HD and convert to various file formats for my music players and car stereo.

In the meantime, I am palate cleansing with ABB 02/70, the Bear’s Sonic Journals raw recordings in 24/96 download. I bought the CD when it came out, but then bought the downloads of the unedited recordings that were used to make the CD. The downloads have cuts and splices where the reel ended. I recently noticed that due to demand they now offer the unedited raw material on CD.

https://owsleystanleyfoundation.org/bears-sonic-journals/allman-brother…

Agreed on The Band.

Way underrated. I bang on forever about how Traffic is underrated. The band is equally so. Just great stuff.

I would put the Last Waltz just under E72 in the rankings.

And just to be clear, the gap between FW69, E72 and the rest of the releases is monumental.

When we first got married, my wife asked me what I wanted for Christmas. I told her, a copy of the Last Waltz.

She never bought it. I got all kinds of bullshit instead . So, I had to get it myself. Four years later. Best $9 ever.

I have the DVD on my quarantine list of things to watch.

For sure Garcia and Hunter were into bluegrass and the Dead in 1970 were identifying with trying to get a Bakersfield sound, but Hunter isn't writing story songs in 1968; he's writing psychedelic poems, or having them dictated by a cat. Bringing country elements like Bob's cowboy songs isn't the same thing as the drastic reshaping of the paradigm that began in late 1969-70. Is that all attributable to The Band? Of course not, but their pervasive influence surely reached intense music lovers like Garcia, Weir, Lesh, and Hunter. They were already fans of Dylan, and they were aware that they played not only with Dylan, but with Ronnie Hawkins, and were a band playing rock'n'roll throughout the US and Canada, and they were a tight band. When they put out their first two albums, they did redefine rock music, maybe not in such an immediately identifiable way as Jimi Hendrix in 1967, but to musicians, and people who listened to the words, they provided just as much of a new direction as Hendrix. Hunter and Garcia appreciating bluegrass didn't mean they could find a way to bring it into the Dead, nor that they even wanted to given the nature of the trip in 1968-69. We can certainly agree they found it necessary to expand their musical interests and palette, because they incontestably did so, and they didn't write a rock opera, but they did write songs about everyday life, ones that seem so timeless, many who hear them think the Dead are covering some old classic when it's Hunter's Jack Straw.

Whatever level of influence, they really seemed to get along well given their many associations of the years.

Double post somehow.

So people will really deliver beer to your house? Wow.. amazing.

Love the discussions on songwriting. Cheers.

Agree on the Band's contributions and that I attribute a little less on the GD's path towards Americana/folk/bluegrass on the band as I do themselves, and let's not forget the Burritos, the Byrds and all that stuff Garcia and Weir used to listen to pre 65, and hey.. Pigpen too.

As for songwriting for the Band, true, Robertson is credited with the majority of the songwriting credits, but that doesn't mean he wrote them, it just means he got the credit and money for writing them.

Levon Helm goes into great detail discussing this in his book, "This Wheel's On Fire." It's been at least ten years since I read it so I won't try to paraphrase, I'll let Wikipedia do it for me.

"The book is notable for providing readers with an inside look at the evolution of a rock 'n' roll group, as well as for placing the blame for the Band's break-up on the shoulders of guitarist Robbie Robertson. Among the accusations Helm makes against Robertson is conspiring with record companies to steal song-writing credits from other members of the Band, arranging the group's break-up as a part of a private agenda, and conspiring with The Last Waltz director Martin Scorsese (a personal friend of Robertson) to make Robertson appear to be the leader and most important member of the group.
Helm's bitterness toward Robertson is balanced by his effusive praise of other musicians, especially other members of the Band, even pausing to admire Robertson's stage presence and talent as a guitarist. "

I think we owe at least a bit of credence to some of the claims in his book. He was there and it drove a wedge between Robertson and everyone else in the band. He said most of the songs were collaborative and most of the credits were just Robertson. They discuss some of this on the wiki page for The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down.

Just another data point. Happy start to a new week.

Man, there are already two copies of the new 1976 box listed on ebay. Boy, these folks don't waste any time.

I was doing merch on and off in the early, mid? 90s often with the Band, and there supposedly was a BIG offer to do a reunion at Carnegie Hall, multiple shows.
Most were ok with it but I won’t repeat what Lee supposedly said...even after all those years, and they could of used the boost in those days....unfortunate.

It's not all about Disc 3!!! So many other releases it is straight to Disc 3... bob t

I recently picked up the expanded 4 disc set of the Last Waltz, good stuff with a lot that wasn't on the original release. Haven't had a chance for repeat listens as of yet, but I dug it.

Robertson definitely bamboozled his bandmates on credit for the music. The lyrics were pretty much all his. He also paid them for their publishing rights, but chose to do it while most of them were dealing with an addiction to heroin. I have no love for Robertson, and take Levon's side in the dispute. He was the primary lyricist, though, douchebag or not.

Kind of a funny thing about The Last Waltz is the part they filmed in the Shangrila Studio after the concert, Robbie had apparently planned to make a new Band album afterward there, and was surprised when the rest of The Band didn't show, as they all believed the Last Waltz was it, so they bailed on him. Then, of course, a couple years later they went back on the road without him.

Last point I'll make on this: just saw a quote where Roger Waters said Music From Big Pink was "the second most influential record of all time". That is not a person I would have necessarily expected to have been influenced by The Band in such a profound way. Though, it does answer a question I've always had about their joining for the Berlin Wall performance of The Wall.

I also recognize other bands have similar issues with credit not going to members who compose their own musical parts. The most egregious example, to me, is Aston "Family Man" Barrett, the bassist for the Wailers. His basslines provide many of the melodies, and he was the arranger/musical director, and he actually sued for songwriting credits but it was dismissed. At least the Dead never had dissension on that front.

Looking forward to more of 6/11/76 tomorrow. Got distracted by other things today. Stay safe Deadland!

I wonder why Garcia didn't play at the Last Waltz?

I just ran across this article from last month. Apologies if it has been posted already.

Forbes says Dave's 33 was the 100th Grateful Dead album to chart (Billboard 200). With 43 albums hitting the top 40.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2020/02/14/the-grateful-dead-…

Pretty impressive.

The two songs that I like most by the Band were both partially written and sung (I think) by Richard Manuel. "Whispering Pines" and "When You Awake" from the second album. Whenever I have hear that album, those two tracks make my ears stick up.

I was watching some classic 80s NCAA tournament action this weekend which got me thinking brackets.

1) E72 is the overall # 1 seed in my bracket, out of the East region.
The reason being it has some of everything. Those second set Dark Star / Other One sequences have all the psychedelic gooyness one could ask for; smothered on top of the crisp, tight songcraft they had been honing since early 70. Plus Pigpen still at the top of his game. One might argue that its not fair to compare a smaller box to a 73 disc monster like this, but I would say you could pick out 4 or 6 of the best E72 shows for a smaller box and it would still hold true.

2) 2 overall, #1 out of the West region is, of course, FW 69. Its not like there's anything wrong with it. For most bands it would be the pinnacle of their career. It maybe doesn't lend itself as well to casual listens, however, compared to the 1st set of an E72 show. But there is no better accompaniment to some late night recreation.

3) #1 out of the Midwest Region is Get Shown The Light. Where E72 has the crispy tunes smothered on top with gooey jams, with this one the gooey jam is swirled right into the crispy song. This was never done more seamlessly. The only knock against it is that you can't be at the very top of a ranking of Dead box sets without having alternating Dark Stars and Other Ones. I don't make the rules.

4) #1 in the South Region is 30 Trips. Pick your top 6 from this box, including at least one from each decade. I'll take 67, 72, 73, 79, 89, 90. Collectively, they've got everything that the Dead had to give , just maybe not all at the same time.

I've only gotten through 6/10 so far from the new box, but my priors tell me its a strong contender for the #2 seed behind May 77.

Stay safe everyone.

After taking ginormous bites of this utterly spectacular June '76 Box over the weekend one sort of obvious question began to percolate to the top: what of the remaining titular titanics from the early(-ish) part of this summer tour? In particular, the most glaring omissions in my eyes at this point are June 28th and July 18th. Of course June 28th includes the first ever proto-Fire On the Mountain (i.e. Happiness is Drumming) and July 18th is just one gigantic monster jam - they pretty much don't stop playing for the entire second set, swerving in and out of songs like an expert underwater basket-weaver. Rumor had it that the July 18th show may make it as a Dave's Picks one day; did I just make that up?

Either way, these would be awesome additions to one crazy summer comeback tour.

For those not familiar, here's an invitation to indulge:

https://archive.org/details/gd1976-06-28.sbd.digitalrbb.miller.112296.f…

https://archive.org/details/gd76-07-18.sbd.bertha.14838.sbeok.shnf

Seventy-Sixtus

6-29-76 needs to be Plangentized and released.
The Candyman and Playing>Wheel>Playing are epic.
Also has the last Mission.

No 76 burn out here.

https://youtu.be/I9lsWCYKgvI

I used to wonder that myself.

Maybe people weren't getting along; maybe he was out of town; etc.

One tidbit of trivia I'd like to know about.

If Robbie Robertson wasn't "Mr. Band", then I have been wrong for years. The movie certainly presents him as such, at least to my perspective.

"The Weight"...every three months or so, I listen to that tune and sing it loud.
the weight...I haven't weighed myself for a few years now. I don't want to know.

epic, Sixtus

Hi Roguedead,
I do agree for ranking. I love Pacific NW and put it in #4 .
I expect to receive June 76 end of the week. In France, Post office now works only 4, instead of 6 days a week.
Stay safe at home,

what you may not do is in this little saynete.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xhoei

give it a listen

the band's sound from January 71 to end of August 71...I loooooooooooooove it

the Marx Brothers are the Grateful Dead of comedy

Thanks to a mechanical error at a UPS facility, I'm still awaiting arrival of my 76 Box. Should be here any minute now.

I enjoy seeing everyone's ranking of the boxed sets. However, I am surprised how many leave July '78 off their list. I just really love that one. It's also clear that I undervalue FW69 (gasp!).

My Top 5 in no particular order:

July 78
Europe 72
Giants Stadium
Thirty Trips
Pacific NW

Has anyone heard their 2 CD set on Sunset Blvd Records "Phantom ships with phantom sails". Certainly the track listing is impressive:

Disc: 1
MOUNTAINS OF THE MOON
DARK STAR
ST. STEPHEN
THE ELEVEN
DEATH DON'T HAVE NO MERCY
I KNOW YOU RIDER
ME AND MY UNCLE
COLD RAIN & SNOW
MR. CHARLIE
Disc: 2
BERTHA
HIGH TIME
MAMA TRIED
NEW SPEEDWAY BOOGIE
OTHER ONE
WHARF RAT
PLAYING IN THE BAND
TURN ON YOUR LOVELIGHT
MORNING DEW (w/Bonnie Dobson)

I just received notice from job of 25 years of layoff because of covid. I dont usually post personal shit but this sucks. At least I saved for it. Dead.net looking for a quality control job?. I have the june 76 box to lick my wounds. 6/11/76 is so sweet. P.S.--ill even take the under water basket weaving job.

Hey now,

UPS just delivered it. Should have had it Friday but the tracking website said a mechanical error delayed delivery. Happy the packaging isn't ginormous. Time to start listening while trying to get my work done. The Grateful Dead have won that battle more than once, though.

CB

so sorry to hear about this Carlo13 - I imagine this is going to begin to surface more and more. Truly scary stuff; let's hope work is there once this all goes by. Even Ingrid just told me that the clinical trial she is working on with terminal cancer patients at Columbia has halted activities - unprecedented - these people will die without possibility for therapy.

Music heals; do your best to find peace, All.

Sixtus

Enjoyed those brackets, Roguedeadguy. Sure do miss March Madness. I'd turn down the sound and listen to the Dead while watching. I'll take Europe '72 to win it all...

Everything Sixtus just said, hang in there brother.

There's a make shift cot in the stolen, refrigerated beer truck parked out back under the hemlocks. Still 85% full, but beginning to think about rationing. On second thought.. there are other beer trucks and I have two hemlock trees..

so phqt up.

I am truly sorry. the human fallout is tragic enough; the economic fallout of this...ugh. adds vicious and vulgar insult to (potentially fatal) injury.

In support,

stoltzfus

The titles given to various releases is an interesting side trip- Ready Or Not, Nightfall Of Diamonds, Get Shown The Light. It’s strange to me how some releases get them and some don’t. I wish this release would’ve been called Paradise Waits, or in these times, Help On The Way. Just that I‘ve always thought Paradise Waits would make a great title for a release. Anyways, great release, love the packaging design, and it’s a beauty in every way.

I wish the Dead would have added Attics of My Life, Rosemary, and Mtns. of the Moon to their 1980 acoustic sets. Three great tunes that they quit playing way to soon.

Hiya folks - Been a while. Been loving this '76 box so far. Love the chill '76 vibe, the 3 Help>Slip>Franks, the 5 Cassidy's, the one eyes if pretty good if quick, one of the High Time's is AMAZING - can't recall which....

Robbie Robertson is one of my fav's ever. Yes he was the leader and deserved a massive majority amount of the credit fro pushing the "Band" rock up the hill. When you're the only one not lost in a fog it can seem like you're THE guy, but shouldn't have taken all the credits, though it IS hard to give people partial credit. Jerry certainly wouldn't have done that, but most rock stars couldn't touch Jer's selflessness. RR's album "Storyville" is EASILY one of my fav albums of all time. Get it.

Boxes are all too amazing to rank. Though E72, Fillmore '69, and GSTL 77 are all hard to top. Those are the 3 biggest pinnacles of their career in my book. We are due for another '73 in my book - still an under-represented release year. The late-era boxes are all good but I never spin 'em. It's a shame they erased most of the 1980 Radio City/San Fran multi-track shows - thats what happens in dire economic times.... like these...

Sorry to those effected by the market selloff and pandemic. Stay safe and don't panic y'all.

ICECRMCNKD and KCJ thanks for the messages!

Carlo - I am sorry to hear that. Sadly that is likely going to be a reality for many. I hope it works out for you. I know locally the restaurant businesses and retail businesses and have been slammed. For me, I am special ed. teacher and they just shut schools down in PA for an additional 2 weeks on top of the the 2 weeks that we have already been closed. The school I work at is part of a non-profit organization that has several other non school based programs. Every program is basically closed down. With it being a non profit there is not a lot of money going around so that definitely has me wondering what could happen. So far we are getting paid, but I can see funds running out quickly...

Still I will say that at least all of us are lucky to still be on the bus at a time like this. We have the greatest band in the world to help get us through it. If I didn't have the Good Ol' GD I am not sure what I would be doing now.

Not at all what I was expecting, but what they came up with is fine I think. 11:11 track 1 on disc 11 is notable, too. #872 in the house. :-)

....don't let that slip past your radar. Disc 8.
Loving seeing familiar faces in window panes posting. We will survive. Chin up. Wash hands. Distance. If you're looking for rocket science, i have news for you.
It's not....